DrDre

poita said:

Dre, is that from the TIFF or the DPX?

Here’s another based on the DPX:

poita said:

Dre, is that from the TIFF or the DPX?

That’s from the TIFF.

poita said:

When scanning, you have so many things to take into consideration, one of them is whether to scan into a log or linear based file.

Attached is the same file as a linear TIFF and a log DPX.

If you are using a log based system such as Nucoda, you will probably get better results with the DPX file, if you are using something less high end, you might get better results with the TIFF.

I’ll be interested to see how people go with this.
https://we.tl/xO0SCcQyuM

I actually have a question on this subject. How much of the shifts in the color balance may be caused by the printing process? Or are all of the color shifts allways part of the grade?

poita said:

Maybe…
I’ve done a basic correction on the cropped shots.

Which image did you mean? I can up you a raw version.

Yeah, I know, but still…it looks miles better.

Golden C-3PO rather than that weird greenish color he has on the bluray, man I love this…

The print really does look to be in excellent condition, and despite the variation between shots the colors look very appealing. 😃

poita said:

There has been no digital cleanup done on the files. This is why we spend a lot of money physically cleaning the prints.

There is still some dirt and debris on there that will require digital cleanup though.

Dre, I watched reel1 and Reel6 projected last night, from a different SE print that I have here, the grade is all over the place, but not very different to the technicolor prints.
The greys of the Death Star and X-Wing interiors are greenish-grey like on the IB, the overall colouring is similar, but man some shots are graded poorly on the SE. Star field backgrounds very green or blue for instance. It is very inconsistent shot to shot.

As to more detail or being closer to the negative, I guess we will see.
Some of the shots I’ve looked at so far have less resolvable detail than the IB prints, I think it will vary shot to shot.

Thanks for the info! I noted the technicolor prints also have quite a bit of shot to shot variation, but it seems you’re saying the SE print is even worse. From this standpoint I can understand why Lucas wanted to redo the color grading digitally for the DVD release, even if the DVD color grading could have been done more in the spirit of the color grading of the theatrical releases.

I actually have a question. Since the SE was created by going back to the original negative, the interpositive and derived prints for the SE should contain other information and details, than the technicolor prints, am I right? If so, combining details from an SE print and technicolor print should get you closer to the original negative.

Not sure if you’ve seen the SE projected poita, but even so do you have an idea if the color timing for the SE is very different from the technicolor prints you’ve seen?

Nice!

Very interesting! Thanks for the clear explanation! I’m not going to argue with your expertise. 😃 Didn’t know the Scanity is actually not that great of a scanner.

poita said:

My point is that we regularly have details when scanning at 4K that are only 1 pixel high.

Sure, but I felt is was worth noting, that the bluray with it’s digital noise reduction isn’t really a good representation of the detail, that can be resolved at 2K. I’ve used that example myself in discussions, but when examining the frames at 2K, I was surprised to see, that especially in motion, the pattern around the edge is also visible at 2K resolution. Here I’ve averaged a number of frames, which should be a better representation how it looks in motion:

Now obviously it’s pushing the limits of the detail 2K can resolve, but there’s no denying the pattern is visible.

poita said:

Sorry, but I think that demonstrates that the pattern is absent at 2K.

Well here’s what it looks like at 4K:

The reality is, that it’s not a blur at 2K like on the bluray, and a pattern is clearly visible, and it’s not so greatly defined at 4K either.

Synnöve said:

DrDre said:

This is actually not the case. I have a 2k copy (2048x858) of a 35mm scan, which shows the pattern fairly clearly.

Was the scan performed at that resolution or was it done at a higher res then laster down-sampled to 2k?

It was scanned at 4K. The detail at 4K resolution is actually not all that much better than at 2K. Mike Verta used overlays of multiple prints to obtain the clear edges you see in the image poita posted. So, the edge is more grainy on an actual print, but even at 2K the pattern is clearly visible.

Here’s a blowup of the 2K downscale:

poita said:

This is what the doorframe around the Tantive door looks like just before it blows

(thanks to MV for the image)

If you scan at 3K, it is just a blur, at 4K you can see the pattern and at 6K the pattern is clear.

This is from a 1977 print, it will be interesting to see if the SE print has this level of detail or not.

The negative would have far more detail again.

This is actually not the case. I have a 2k copy (2048x858) of a 35mm scan, which shows the pattern fairly clearly.

poita said:

Here are two frames, straight out of the scanner, just scaled down to 4K from the 6K scan.

No colour adjustment done, these are 16bit TIFF files, so you will need to adjust the curves to see what the colour looks like, no LUT has been applied.

https://wetransfer.com/downloads/4439bd1fcbe67500b855a017435ad9eb20171103051735/43a198a695fde783651cf7d98d01a37120171103051735/9e0795
I really do need help on meeting the costs on this, I’d like to be able to get all the reels done, and then move onto ESB and ROTJ.

Any help appreciated, see my sig for details.

I donated another 50 USD just now to further the cause.

I’m sort of trying to figure out where to go with this, as I’ve noted that transformations from one color space to another can sometimes lead to undesired color casts.

tyee said:

Here are the images - https://imgur.com/a/miTtl

Top image is from player that can read the HDR info and give a watchable SDR image.
Bottom is from player that can’t read the HDR info.

HDR videos have different color space than SDR videos. I’m sure you know a lot more that I do about these. BT.709 and BT.2020 but does it really matter in this case of just using colormatch to do it’s magic?

No, you can use one screenshot as a reference to correct the other, as long as you watch it in SDR space.

I don’t follow. Could you post the two screenshots?

poita said:

We.d be looking at around $10K for all three films, or thereabouts.

I see, well I will be able to contribute some more in the next few months.

How much would be needed to fund the scanning of the entire 1997 SE trilogy? It would be a shame if the opportunity to do these scans at this quality level would pass.

I’m on hand for any assistance…

Here’s an update of the earlier Tantive IV regrades:

As some of you may have read in his thread, if all goes well funding wise, poita will be scanning the 35mm prints of the 1997 SE trilogy. These scans will include a LUT, such that the colors match a projected print. If the colors are as great as I hope they will be, I will be using these scans to color correct the entire bluray trilogy to match these 1997 prints. This will be a nice complementary color grading to NeverarGreat’s technicolor regrade for ANH.

It would be interesting to know, if the yellowish colors of the technicolor print are a side effect of the technicolor green cast, or if the original color timing is indeed more yellow than the home video transfers would have us believe.