Sorry, that doesn’t really fly, Star Wars was never “known for its originality.”
You’ve got to be joking. Star Wars was the first movie of it’s kind. It doesn’t get much more original than that.
Originality is overrated. In reality it actually has little to do with quality. Just because a movie has similarities to another movie doesn’t mean it has “real flaws.” It’s as cheap a kind of film criticism as pointing out plot holes and continuity errors - very basic and surface level. If movies were actually judged by originality then a lot of classic movies would be widely considered flawed too (for example, the works of Tarantino, also a little movie called Star Wars).
Sorry, but that argument really doesn’t fly IMO. We’re speaking about a set of films that recycle heavily elements from previous entries in the same series both narratively and aesthetically, a series that was once known for it’s originality in many, many respects. In my view this once progressive franchise has now devolved into an endlessly self-referential pale shadow of its former self.
Ok so you agree ESB was pointless too.
In the context of the OT, no. In the context of SW, yes.
Let’s not forget ESB told an original story, unlike the ST, which is content to recycle many OT the story threads, and in case of TLJ confuses plot twists with originality.
I have no problem admitting the PT, despite it’s poor execution of many elements, is far more interesting to me than the ST thusfar. So, for it’s originality, concepts, and design, I prefer the PT to the ST.
I’ve been thinking about why the idea, that TLJ didn’t answer questions like “where does Snoke come from?” is important to me in the overall appreciation, or lack thereof of the ST to me, and possibly others. My answer is, that providing answers like that provides meaning both in the context of what came before, but perhaps even more importantly to the future final installment of the nine part saga. What do I mean by this? Let me explain…
The ST is a soft reboot of sorts. ROTJ ended with a seemingly final victory at the battle of Endor, where freedom is restored to the galaxy, Anakin Skywalker is redeemed, and Luke is to pass on what he has learned. In TFA and particulary in TLJ that hard fought victory is mostly undone both on a personal and on a large scale level. In of itself this is not necessarily an issue, although the fact that the galaxy at large regresses back to an OT type conflict between a small rebel force and a large tyranny does not provide an original and/or natural progression of the story in my view, but that’s not the issue, I want to address here. The issue I want to raise, is one of meaning. What is the meaning of the victory at Endor, and by extension what will the meaning be of the supposed final victory at the end of the future episode IX? If the victory at the end of episode IX is to have any meaning for me, I need to get a sense of why our classic heroes failed to deliver a lasting peace, and why I should have faith in a positive outcome this time around. For this scenario to work in my mind, Snoke needs to be an anomaly, a unique individual, who through his great talents and power combined with some unique circumstances was able to destroy everything our heroes fought for, and corrupt their off-spring. It’s not enough for Snoke to be some random Force user who just happens to undo the outcome of the OT for the purpose of franchise extension. If that’s the case, what’s to stop some other powerful Force user from just undoing the victory of the next generation of heroes? If a major victory is to have any meaning, it should not just be wiped out of existence mostly off-screen with the explanation, that some random evil dude was somehow able to reverse three films worth of plot development, and secure the services of Darth Vader Jr. For me that does not provide a convincing overarching narrative. In my view it not only weakens the journey of the heroes of the OT, but the journey of the ST characters as well. Johnson has stated about Snoke:
“What I knew was that in this film, similar to with the Emperor in the original trilogy, it’s just not what this story is about. And the Emperor in the original trilogy, you know nothing about him. Because you don’t have to! It’s not what it’s about.”
This argument would be fine, if the ST stood on its own, and was presented as largely being simply a reimagening of the OT, a remake of sorts, but it is not. It is meant to be a continuation of a larger story, where Snoke is apparently the linchpin between the alleged victory at the end of the OT, and the tragedy witnessed in the ST. After seeing TLJ that linchpin turns out to be little more than Scotch tape.
Hi I ran into problem on color matching 2 color palettes, every color matched except that one on row 3 column 2, it always turn to pink on the result.
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/0E1NNN8U
This is a discrete color matching problem. The color matching algorithm assumes images with a continuous color distributions with smooth color gradients, so it’s not perfectly suited for this sort of problem.
However, the explanation is in row 5 column 1, which in the source image has almost the same color as row 3 column 2. That color has to become a bright pink, and so row 3 column 2 also becomes pink.
So does that mean the problem can be resolved if I can sort the order of the color in the source image into one long smooth gradient before passing to the program?
It might be…
I isolated that two color and do the testing on the order, but the program didn’t run.
source:
https://i.imgur.com/58gYXRb.pngThe algo matches color distributions. With two colors there is not much of a distribution, so I don’t think that will work.
Perhaps this explains why the program wouldn’t run for me when I tried to match the end credits of Star Wars.
I think so. It might work in some cases, but it’s a problem that’s ouside of the scope of the algorithm.
Hi I ran into problem on color matching 2 color palettes, every color matched except that one on row 3 column 2, it always turn to pink on the result.
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/0E1NNN8U
This is a discrete color matching problem. The color matching algorithm assumes images with a continuous color distributions with smooth color gradients, so it’s not perfectly suited for this sort of problem.
However, the explanation is in row 5 column 1, which in the source image has almost the same color as row 3 column 2. That color has to become a bright pink, and so row 3 column 2 also becomes pink.
So does that mean the problem can be resolved if I can sort the order of the color in the source image into one long smooth gradient before passing to the program?
It might be…
I isolated that two color and do the testing on the order, but the program didn’t run.
source:
https://i.imgur.com/58gYXRb.png
The algo matches color distributions. With two colors there is not much of a distribution, so I don’t think that will work.
Hi I ran into problem on color matching 2 color palettes, every color matched except that one on row 3 column 2, it always turn to pink on the result.
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/0E1NNN8U
This is a discrete color matching problem. The color matching algorithm assumes images with a continuous color distributions with smooth color gradients, so it’s not perfectly suited for this sort of problem.
However, the explanation is in row 5 column 1, which in the source image has almost the same color as row 3 column 2. That color has to become a bright pink, and so row 3 column 2 also becomes pink.
So does that mean the problem can be resolved if I can sort the order of the color in the source image into one long smooth gradient before passing to the program?
It might be…
Hi I ran into problem on color matching 2 color palettes, every color matched except that one on row 3 column 2, it always turn to pink on the result.
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/0E1NNN8U
This is a discrete color matching problem. The color matching algorithm assumes images with a continuous color distributions with smooth color gradients, so it’s not perfectly suited for this sort of problem.
However, the explanation is in row 5 column 1, which in the source image has almost the same color as row 3 column 2. That color has to become a bright pink, and so row 3 column 2 also becomes pink.
DrDre said:
No, I don’t think, you understand how the laws of physics work.I work in the space sector and in fact I credit seeing Star Wars at a young age as being the catalyst for that interest. So I assure you my understanding of physics is fine, albeit entirely unnecessary for an appreciation of Star Wars.
I don’t want to turn today into another episode of “The Dre Show” so suffice to say that this discussion has already happened, and you have already been given many sound and sensible reasons. If you’ve forgotten them already then I would suggest you read back through the thread for your answers.
Yet, you cannot resist the temptation to rain on my parade, rather than leave the discussion between OutboundFlight and me, and whoever wants to participate. If you don’t want today to turn into “The DrDre Show”, then just ignore my posts. I assure you, I will be very pleased when that happens. It will save us both a lot of time, and frustration.
I don’t think you understand how torpedo’s work. The speed that they strike the target is irrelevant in fact many torpedo don’t physically even contact the target, but proximity detonate.
No, I don’t think, you understand how the laws of physics work. If an object travels that fast, you don’t need to detonate anything. The energy released on impact would rival a nuclear bomb even for a very tiny object.
Maybe Holdo was the first person to think up the kamakizee lightspeed attack. As others have pointed out kamakizee is only useful in certain situations, it makes sense no one would have thought of it until now. They did say she was a brilliant general, and Poe + Hux (both experienced in the military) are confused when she turns the ship around.
That seems highly unlikely. Self-sacrifice is probably older than the discovery of fire, and kamikazee was actually fairly widely used by the Japanese in WWII. If we have invented it many times over throughout our earthly history, I would expect Holdo not to be the first to think of it in the much more advanced GFFA. Considering the energy released on impact is proportionate to the mass times the velocity squared, if hyperspace is really nothing more than traveling very fast in real space and time, as it appears to be in TLJ, then an obstacle travelling at lightspeed would obviously inflict the most damage. A lightspeed torpedo should therefore logically exist. Not having it would be the earthly equivalent of having super sonic planes, whilst inexplicably not having super sonic missiles.
Edit: consider that an object of 1kg travelling at the speed of light would have a the same energy released on impact as a nuclear bomb.
I suppose it comes down to whether you decide you want to like it or not. If you want to like it, you focus more on why you like it; if you don’t, you focus more on why you don’t. You can certainly discuss flaws in something you like, but primarily after it’s been established that the thing you like is the thing they like. Kind of like picking on a mutual friend behind their back, as opposed to listening to someone who hates their guts.
It’s not even really that. It’s just nitpicking I can’t stand. Yeah, you can nitpick and find seeming logic flaws in the plot or whatever. But it’s just as easy to find reasonable excuses for them. For me, these kind of little things ultimately don’t matter in regards to the movie’s quality.
That depends. The criticism of the logic behind the hyperspace kamikaze might be a bit of a nitpick, but it is a symptom of larger issues surrounding the slow chase, which is the backbone of the film. That entire sequence is built around the idea that all the rebel cruisers are being chased at a slow pace by the enemy, who conveniently cannot catch up or hit the good guys with their lasers or torpedos for 75% of the runtime of the movie (I can’t remember, if the film provided an explanation for why Hux didn’t send a squadron of fighters, which were very effective earlier in the film), with the element of suspense centered around the idea, the good guys are running out of fuel. Add to this the mutiny, which is based on two rebel leaders not communicating, leading to a side mission, that ultimately goes nowhere. I don’t think this largely plot driven sequence was well written, even if several parts had some entertainment value. Despite not liking the way Luke was handled or for what purpose, I think RJ did much better on the Ach-To and throne room sequences, which were both clever and suspenseful, as was the final confrontation between Luke and Kylo.
Trailer looked pretty good. This movie may actually be a lot of fun.
I would have been happy with just leaving it with the cartoon, which may have left a smile on some people’s faces, and gotten a meh by others, but it was not to be.
So, I will take the high ground (pun intended), and leave the discussion with this very on-topic meme:
In that case: An unmanned kamikaze ship still needs the mass and size of a capital ship, it needs sublight engines and a hyperdrive and it needs an advanced piloting system. It has to stay with the main fleet in case it’s needed, so it costs additional money to operate. Why not buy a regular ship for the same price, which is much more versatile and not limited to one single use? And don’t tell me “it’s just a joke”.
I’m pretty sure a small TIE Fighter could do some damage to the Rebel cruiser.
In Rogue One, we see that the smaller rebel ships didn’t do much damage to the Stardestroyer, when they crashed in hyperspace, so no.
I was talking about the bridge.
So, you assume they can aim their hyperspace jump to directly fly into the bridge?
They can make calculations to avoid stars and what not en route, I think a bridge should not be much of a problem.
Because avoiding a huge star is the same as aiming at a tiny bridge.
No, but avoiding stars, planets and all sorts of other objects seems pretty advanced. I don’t see why aiming a ship at a bridge would be so difficult.
But at the cost of one capital ship. Taking the rebel cruiser out with regular weapons is much more cost effective.
If Lucas had gone for that option at the start of ANH, the film would be very long indeed.
I don’t follow what you mean by this? Wasn’t the beginning of ANH basically a sublight chase?
Yes, where the bigger ship quickly caught up with the smaller one. It wasn’t stretched out across an entire film to serve as the rather weak (imo of course) backbone of the rest of the movie.
In that case: An unmanned kamikaze ship still needs the mass and size of a capital ship, it needs sublight engines and a hyperdrive and it needs an advanced piloting system. It has to stay with the main fleet in case it’s needed, so it costs additional money to operate. Why not buy a regular ship for the same price, which is much more versatile and not limited to one single use? And don’t tell me “it’s just a joke”.
I’m pretty sure a small TIE Fighter could do some damage to the Rebel cruiser.
In Rogue One, we see that the smaller rebel ships didn’t do much damage to the Stardestroyer, when they crashed in hyperspace, so no.
I was talking about the bridge.
So, you assume they can aim their hyperspace jump to directly fly into the bridge?
They can make calculations to avoid stars and what not en route, I think a bridge should not be much of a problem.
But at the cost of one capital ship. Taking the rebel cruiser out with regular weapons is much more cost effective.
Why take the risk? The FO have the opportunity to take out the Resistance once and for all. They could have sent fighters, that proved very effective earlier, or use the kamikaze trick, or whatever. In stead we get a very convenient slow chase. If Lucas had gone for that option at the start of ANH, the film would be very long indeed.
This has already been discussed - Dre already went through this ‘hyperspace kamikaze’ plothole many pages ago. He got shut down thoroughly and convincingly by Adywan and others at the time. That is why I used the word trolling, by posting up a ‘mocking’ cartoon image (which is about as funny as a funeral) and was just designed to mock and denigrate the movie. Poor show.
Not at all. That discussion was about why the hyperspace kamikaze wasn’t used in general, considering its destructive potential, like against the Death Star in ANH, and was shut down only on your mind. This argument pertains specifically to TLJ’s internal logic, and no it is not illogical to assume there are ships in the FO fleet, that are large enough to destroy a rebel cruiser, or at the very least incapacitate it.
But not contributing much. If he wants to make a point, he should write down his point, not post some stupid comic.
Jeez, relax…it is a joke. I thought it was funny, whilst also making a point, which is really obvious, and does not require written text. I don’t know how many off-topic “funny” remarks have been posted in this thread, and you’re raging against an on-topic cartoon? The forum rules allow image only posts if they are on-topic btw, and the cartoon makes a good point regarding the application of TLJ’s in-universe logic. It’s a nitpick to an extend, but it is also a valid criticism, considering the film features both a slow chase, where the bad guys somehow cannot get in range to kill the good guys for the reason of plot convenience, and a ship, that is used by the good guys as a lightspeed torpedo against the bad guys at a critical point in the film. It does make it seem, like RJ wanted to have his cake and eat it.
Ps. I should add, that I feel the cartoon is more entertaining than this post.
I’m not raging. And the rules say “No image-only posts unless the image has a direct bearing on the topic at hand and it adds value to the discussion.” I agree that the pic was on-topic, however, whether it adds value to the discussion is very debatable.
You might not feel so, but I do, so there you go. I’m not in favour of disagreeing with an opinion, and then to pass it off as not having value, or something even less pleasant. There’s too much of that going on around here. I would rather discuss the point being made.
I’m not saying the opinion in the comic has no value, I’m saying expressing your opinion by posting someone else’s comic without context is bad form. People have to assume your exact opinion and you can brush off any criticism with “it’s just a joke”, which is a pretty bad excuse in general.
Well maybe I just wanted to share the comic without context, such that people can just view it on it’s own terms. The comic’s creator has his or her own intent, that doesn’t need my embellishment. I have no trouble adding my own take, as I’ve amply demonstrated, so I really don’t see why you keep banging on about this.
But not contributing much. If he wants to make a point, he should write down his point, not post some stupid comic.
Jeez, relax…it is a joke. I thought it was funny, whilst also making a point, which is really obvious, and does not require written text. I don’t know how many off-topic “funny” remarks have been posted in this thread, and you’re raging against an on-topic cartoon? The forum rules allow image only posts if they are on-topic btw, and the cartoon makes a good point regarding the application of TLJ’s in-universe logic. It’s a nitpick to an extend, but it is also a valid criticism, considering the film features both a slow chase, where the bad guys somehow cannot get in range to kill the good guys for the reason of plot convenience, and a ship, that is used by the good guys as a lightspeed torpedo against the bad guys at a critical point in the film. It does make it seem, like RJ wanted to have his cake and eat it.
Ps. I should add, that I feel the cartoon is more entertaining than this post.
I’m not raging. And the rules say “No image-only posts unless the image has a direct bearing on the topic at hand and it adds value to the discussion.” I agree that the pic was on-topic, however, whether it adds value to the discussion is very debatable.
You might not feel so, but I do, so there you go. I’m not in favour of disagreeing with an opinion, and then to pass it off as not having value, or something even less pleasant. There’s too much of that going on around here. I would rather discuss the point being made.
DrTroll
This standing alone is not that bad, but it’s getting to the point where I almost consider the sum of it all harassment.
You’re not alone in that opinion, but hey what are you gonna do? Just ignore, I guess.
But not contributing much. If he wants to make a point, he should write down his point, not post some stupid comic.
Jeez, relax…it is a joke. I thought it was funny, whilst also making a point, which is really obvious, and does not require written text. I don’t know how many off-topic “funny” remarks have been posted in this thread, and you’re raging against an on-topic cartoon? The forum rules allow image only posts, if they are on-topic btw, and the cartoon makes a good point regarding the application of TLJ’s in-universe logic. It’s a nitpick to an extend, but it is also a valid criticism, considering the film features both a slow chase, where the bad guys somehow cannot get in range to kill the good guys for the reason of plot convenience, and a ship, that is used by the good guys as a lightspeed torpedo against the bad guys at a critical point in the film. It does make it seem, like RJ wanted to have his cake and eat it.
Ps. I should add, that I feel the cartoon is more entertaining than this post.
Isn’t that a TFA issue? Several of the inconsistencies and “plot holes” listed here apply to TFA too.
To an extend, but at least in TFA there was still a New Republic, and the barren conditions of the FO’s home base made it seem like they were a well supported fringe government, run by extremists. Given what happened in TFA, I would have expected both the New Republic and the FO to be severely weakened. This should have given rise to a totally different dynamic in the conflict, with two nations fighting a war of attrition with limited resources. However, it was not to be. The New Republic was destroyed, and the FO seemingly unstoppable without explanation.
