DrDre

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JawsTDS said:

You’ve definitely removed that blanket tint, looks awesome.

One thing, this could be my end, but it seems that the shadows have boosted Red values – the starfields look red tinted. Is that just a byproduct of removing the blanket tint?

The red tint is in the original frame as well. It’s a helo from the explosion. The saturation has been boosted slightly for the regrade, so the helo is more pronounced.

I created this thread to continue the discussion in kk650’s thread. The objective is to obtain the best possible LUT for regrading TLJ, that satisfies the largest number of people. Most if not all seemed to agree the contrast boost was not an improvement, however the contrast boost was not the only change I made to the LUT, and so here’s a third version, that keeps the colors from v2, but doesn’t alter the contrast of the movie.

Bluray set 1:

Regrade v3 set 1:

http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/PLLNNN8X

Bluray set 2:

Regrade v3 set 2:

http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/2BJNNN8U

Here’s the LUT:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZoLgoLD-HI2bqW8y9ouDOc8oaZ2dx8nX/view?usp=sharing

Let me know what you think?

Slavicuss said:

Much more pleasing to the eye than purple-faced people.

What bothered me most about the colour grading for modern STAR WARS home video releases, was how blue Greedo looked. I remembered him being green NOT blue.

Thanks! I’ve finished the next batch of frames, and brightened the color grading somewhat to improve shadow detail:

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Turisu said:

Yoda seems to have lost his ghostly haze in the corrected frame.

Everything is a haze for the TLJ bluray, as the black levels are raised, and the contrast very low. The blue haze is there, but at higher contrast levels it is less noticeable in the darker regions of the frame. A small price to pay for more natural contrast settings in my view. Conversly it is more noticeable in the brighter areas of the frame. However, there’s always the alternative of the low contrast LUT.

Chewielewis said:

I watched the HDR version the other day and the bluray soon after that and found that the Blacks are elevated throughout the whole film. On TFA and every other star wars the starfield is pitch black, on TLJ its grey. Consider correcting that (if you havent)

Yeah, I agree the bluray looks to be low contrast. I’ve adjusted my regrade (this will be the last, I don’t want to hijack kk650’s thread), to accommodate this:

Comparison with the bluray:

http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/6GPNNN8X

Here’s is another set of example frames:

Comparison with the bluray:

http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/66LNNN8X

Here’s the LUT (use or adjust freely):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1h95CAOg16wJNq1IphVT6eaRj1YUxwwJP/view?usp=sharing

towne32 said:

Firstly - Exellent LUT, Dre!

Secondly - I was wrong, KK650. The yellow tint does seem to be applied evenly across the film based on what Dre is saying. I don’t get how applying a single setting on the top of a 2.5hr film is in any way what a professional in the industry should get paid for doing. shrug

Thanks! 😃

darthrush said:

Thanks for the LUT Dre! I might just use this for my fanedit of the film if that is fine with you. (You would be credited)

Sure, no problem!

kk650 said:

darthrush said:

Could you post some screenshots from the regraded scene with Rey handing Luke the saber? I need to end up marching that footage with the overcast colors from TFA and this sounds like something along those lines.

After the blanket yellow tint is removed from The Last Jedi, it doesn’t look overcast like it did when they shot the scene in The Force Awakens so its unlikely to help in terms of maintaining continuety. I’m pretty certain they reshot the scene again for The Last Jedi and the lighting conditions seem to have been pretty different.

Here’s a screencap comparison between the blu-ray and this regrade from that scene:

Blu-ray:

Regrade:

In my view this shot is also too blue. At least it’s not white balanced, so there’s a blue tint in the highlights for sure. If I regrade your regrade, I get what is in my opinion a much more balanced and appealing image, that keeps some of the warmth of the original color grading:

http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/M0CNNN8U

The colors are in very good agreement with this production photo, which appears to be shot with perfect white balance:

The colors of this production photo are also in perfect agreement with this amateur photo of Skellig Michael:

This production photo shows the color of Luke’s Jedi robes, which are in agreement with my regrade, and the other production photo, while the colors in your regrade are markedly different:

To summarize, I believe you overcorrected your TLJ regrade, and introduced a blanket blue tint across the film.

Here are all the example frames you showed, but with my color grading applied, where the fox image now looks perfectly balanced:

http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/M1JNNN8U

Here’s the LUT for those that would like to apply this color grading to the bluray:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dLK4mR_Veyla9Xuv4gvt4zLrS7SCiE-Y/view?usp=sharing

I’m back at it, creating a color grade for the 4k77 scan, that will also be used for my bluray regrade. Here are the first few shots of the bluray regrade:

oojason said:

adywan said:

You only have to look around places like facebook to see how the RT audience scores have been manipulated. Campaigns were started before the film even come out to give it negative reviews. Not just star wars pages either. 99% of the time, RT was the place they aimed for. After the film came out it got even worse. The amount of posts i had to delete on my page where people had posted links to these type of campaigns was astounding. They even added getting people to upvote the prequels on RT to make TLJ score look even worse. Just check out the ROTS reviews and see just how many new ones have suddenly appeared since TLJ.

There’s a real dark side to the Star Wars fandom and it came out in force after TLJ. The amount of the so called reviews and the negative comments/ attacks on social media that point their hatred for it towards the fact that there is more diversity, more women taking the lead roles, Disney is pandering to the SJW’s etc is disgusting.

On here too, unfortunately. There is a list of 15/20 or so new troll/wum banned accounts who came on here spreading hate and/or prejudice (often with making incorrect factual claims re the film - to the point you start to question if they actually watched it or not) - and that’s before getting into content with the ‘political’ aspects of SJWs, diversity, ‘true’ fans, & insights into Kathleen Kennedy’s secret feminist agenda, and other derogatory terms used for characters or people behind the camera.

And that’s all before addressing the film itself.

Thankfully most people on here likely never saw them (the troll/wum account content) - it was quite a busy time for the mods (probably like yourself on your twitter/facebook platforms) - deleting them was the right thing to do, of course - yet looking back at the thread apart from a few remnant troll posts - it’s like it never happened; they don’t exist.

Though of course, they do exist - and they’ll likely be back for Episode IX - maybe even for Solo…
 

Away from here, the rise of click-bait videos - with use of repeated key words to attract the hits/views - regardless of the content therein (videos / interviews / words taken out of context etc)… has upped the ante to new levels. Even those few who get called out enough to ‘apologise’ for their ‘inaccuracies’ seemingly do a short retraction/apology and then carry on as before, regardless (a bit like how UK papers print retractions and apologies in a 1 inch column - despite having done a multi-page spread spreading the ‘story’ previously).

To be fair the monopoly Disney now has on the entertainment industry makes it very hard to find objective reporting from any side of the spectrum. It sort of makes me miss the old days with those clumpsy making off videos of Lucas creating the PT, where all the strengths and weaknesses are out in the open, and no one is trying to seriously control or manipulate the stream of information. There are just too many agendas these days.

Mocata said:

Perhaps among fans alone… whoever they are. Judging something through aggregators, ratings sites, video reviews all that stuff is inevitably a flawed idea. Because even in the modern digital age they’re used by a niche part of the audience to begin with. Time will tell when people are less emotional I guess, just things slowed down after TFA. Like everything else. I’m actually anxious after so much debate to see it on Blu-ray. Then again I just watched Justice League and it was a truly bad film, it’s probably all going to be fine.

I think the fact, that there’s going to be at least one Star Wars film every year, is going to change the way people view these films. Before you only had one film every three years at best, and zero for more than a decade at worst. Expectations were understandably enormous, as the next film had to be awesome. In the future there’s going to be a Star Wars movie for everyone, as there will be dozens to choose from.

Mocata said:

Okay rather than making another quote pyramid I will just say that yes I believe TLJ fans to be the majority. Or at least those whole liked it plus the viewers who thought it was average at best. The RT score has clearly been meddled with. However even if you don’t consider this the case their own score system is broken. Look at the average user review score = 3/5. Which equates to 60% which equates to fresh by their own rules. Hmmmm.

Meanwhile a site like IMDB which has no media value or current fashionable brand recognition has a pretty reasonable score above 70% after all the fuss died down. And this is even with the 1/10 member reviews that are at the bottom of the page being upvoted. Meanwhile home video sales on the likes of Amazon are selling out quickly. Maybe it’s supply and demand you say. But maybe this “polarizing” movie is no such thing and there’s just a vocal minority. You decide.

I think it’s a little more complicated, as the disparity is not among the general audience, who seem to view TLJ as an above average blockbuster, something I actually agree with, but among Star Wars fans, where opinion seems split roughly down the middle. TLJ appears to be a polarizing film among fans. My personal gripes with TLJ have mostly been from the perspective as a fan of the franchise. However, in a general sense, I consider TLJ to be an entertaining film.

joefavs said:

Quick show of hands, who here actually has a Rotten Tomatoes account? I’m genuinely curious about how many people are active on the site, because neither I nor anyone in my social circle has ever reviewed anything there. I suspect that active RT users may be too niche a group to really be representative of audiences overall.

FWIW, Letterboxed (which is the only place I personally ever rate anything) has TLJ with an average score of 3.7 out of 5 stars, with 4 stars being the most popular response by almost twice as much as any of the other responses (I gave it a 4.5).

The 3.7/5 score is in perfect agreement with the 7.4/10 score on imdb. The amazon score is now at 3.5/5 stars.

Matt.F said:

rodneyfaile said:

The Empire Strikes Back received mixed reviews initially when it was released. Over time it’s now regarded as one of the better entries of the saga. I think it will be the same with The Last Jedi.

It already is regarded as one of the better entries in the saga. Metacritic has it as 85% positive from critics…

http://www.metacritic.com/movie/star-wars-episode-viii---the-last-jedi

I think its also a fair point that ‘time’ may allow opinions to shift, particularly as it is a middle film of a yet unfinished trilogy. The weird ‘Mary Sue’ reactionary stuff that Adywan just alluded to will also hopefully become a relic of the past, and let us hope that in ten years from now people will be more accepting of diversity and female leads.

There appears to be some disparity between the rating given by critics, the general audience, and fans. I don’t think that observation is in dispute. So, while critics have generally praised the film, the reception among the general audience and especially fans appears to be more mixed. The imdb score of 7.4 would place the film in 7th place in relation to the nine films that have been released. Reception among fans, as indicated by various audience polls on the TFN boards, show the film is either near the top or bottom of the rankings.

adywan said:

You only have to look around places like facebook to see how the RT audience scores have been manipulated. Campaigns were started before the film even come out to give it negative reviews. Not just star wars pages either. 99% of the time, RT was the place they aimed for. After the film came out it got even worse. The amount of posts i had to delete on my page where people had posted links to these type of campaigns was astounding. They even added getting people to upvote the prequels on RT to make TLJ score look even worse. Just check out the ROTS reviews and see just how many new ones have suddenly appeared since TLJ.

There’s a real dark side to the Star Wars fandom and it came out in force after TLJ. The amount of the so called reviews and the negative comments/ attacks on social media that point their hatred for it towards the fact that there is more diversity, more women taking the lead roles, Disney is pandering to the SJW’s etc is disgusting. I’ve had it with the fandom.

I’m sure these elements exist, but saying these elements were able to significantly affect audience scores, is an assumption. Like those with unreasonable hatred for this movie, there are also those that would have loved this movie, no matter what, and gave this film 10/10 before even seeing it. What’s the affect of those people on the scores?

Either way I think there’s empirical evidence this has been a very divisive movie. Polls among fans at the TFN board point to 10-15% of fans consider TLJ the best Star Wars film, while 30% consider it the worst. It’s imdb score of 7.4, which is above average, is the worst since AOTC. So, while I personally believe the general audience give TLJ an above average score, the fan base seems to be roughly split down the middle.

I think this is one of those movies, where people generally don’t agree about the movie’s percieved quality for their own valid reasons. It’s become the poster child for why people’s opinions can’t generally be forced into a single average movie score.

This is why I’m so glad sites like these exist, where people are free to passionately express their opinions. I think we’ve seen some great arguments from all sides.

Matt.F said:

DrDre said:

Mjolnir Mark IV said:

Not too long ago, in a theater full of people far, far from fortunate…

Wow, that’s one of the longest posts I’ve read in a while. I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but at the same time my frustration with TLJ, and the ST has taken somewhat of a backseat to just enjoying some of the good stuff.

I’m liking the new, more relaxed DrDre. Honestly, we do all need a reality check sometimes - seeing this 5000 word dissertation about all the grievances this guy has with a kids fantasy movie is a good reminder of that!

I also feel I should apologise for giving you a hard time over your views, I still don’t agree with most of the negativity but I am sorry if I made it too personal.

It’s all good. We’re both passionate fans, who feel strongly about many aspects of this great universe. I think we all express our opinions a bit too forcefully at times. I’ve given as much as I’ve taken. Sorry if some of my posts were rude, or if I came across as a bit of a buzzkill.

Mjolnir Mark IV said:

Not too long ago, in a theater full of people far, far from fortunate…

Wow, that’s one of the longest posts I’ve read in a while. I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, but at the same time my frustration with TLJ, and the ST has taken somewhat of a backseat to just enjoying some of the good stuff.

Harmy said:

I talked to a guy organizing an independent sci-fi film festival and he said they wanted to screen Star Wars and Disney wouldn’t let them - not even the SE, the prequels or even TFA. He said that the oldest they’d let them screen is Rogue One, so they’re showing that one.

They’re screening Star Wars in my country later this year with a live orchestra as part of Star Wars - Live in Concert. Don’t know which version it will be, probably the bluray version, but I’ll know soon enough.

Having rewatched TLJ, I’m fascinated by what a mixed experience it was. The film contains many great scenes, great acting and great action, but at the same time for each yin there’s a yang, that diminishes the overall enjoyment of the movie for me:

• While most of the story is definitely entertaining, and there’s a sense of the unexpected throughout most of the film, it’s all ultimately in the service of establishing the FO as the new Empire, and the Resistance as the spark of a new Rebellion. So, while the journey is not unsatisfying, the destination is way too familiar, and anti-climatic. Had Rey and Kylo actually joined forces, the saga could have really broken some new ground, but alas that was not to be.

• I enjoyed Luke’s arc much more this time round, and Mark Hamill’s performance together with the overall satisfying conclusion would have made for a good story, if not for the feeling I have, that it’s all fruit from the poisoness tree. What do I mean by this? Well, the entire premise of Luke’s arc is based on that one flashback in Ben Solo’s bedroom, where Luke very briefly contemplates killing his nephew. The problem here is, that RJ doesn’t provide sufficient motivation or make Luke seem sufficiently emotionally compromised for Luke’s actions to make sense. A moment of weakness just doesn’t cut it for me in the context of what came before. So, I think it’s a classic case of the story driving the characters, rather than the characters driving the story. The video I posted earlier perfectly encapsulates, why the basis of Luke’s arc is on very shaky ground:

“Brilliant or Senseless? Rian Johnson Explains The Last Jedi”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C95o0MRzBVs

• I don’t for the life of me understand why Rey was made so overpowered. Apart from the fact that TLJ’s depiction of the Force obviously conflicts with previous installments, I can’t shake the feeling what a bland character the deux ex machine nature of Rey’s Force powers make her. I believe many of Rey’s scenes would have been so much more powerful and satisfying, if she had really struggled without Luke’s guidance, particulary in her fight with Snoke’s guards, which should obviously have much more experience than her. The bond between Kylo and Rey would have been so much stronger, if she had been injured in the fight, and Kylo had saved her from the guards. It would also have raised Kylo’s profile as an experienced Force user, and genuine threat for Rey in future installments. The movie simply depicts them as equals, and combined with Rey’s victory in TFA doesn’t really raise the stakes for any future confrontation between Rey and Kylo.

• Why did RJ turn Hux into such a big joke? There was a nice rivalary dynamic in TFA, but that’s all been completely undermined by TLJ’s depiction of Hux as a baffoon. Considering that Kylo and Hux are now the only two faces of the FO, it doesn’t make the FO seem all that treatening.

So, overall TLJ is very much hit and miss for me. I can greatly enjoy the ST on its own terms, especially specific individual scenes, and performances, but as a story that is meant to both connect to the past, and move the story forward it seems a big missed opportunity for me.

ChainsawAsh said:

Creox said:

DrDre said:

Creox said:

Ms. Thrawn said:

I’m subscribed to a ton of reviewers and critics on YouTube whose opinions tend to vary from one another on a lot of things. But the only name I can think of off the top of my head who gave TLJ a glowing review would be Movie Bob. Doug Walker gave it a mostly positive, if I remember right?

Other than that, my subscription updates and recommendations have been inundated with negative reviews since the movie came out. YouTube has a kind of cynical culture going to it anyway, but I’ve never seen the hate bandwagon toward a work of fiction reach “Look What This Cuh-raaazy SJW Feminist Did On Campus” levels until now. I’m pretty sure there’s what amounts to a zombie horde of angry fans waiting to rip Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson to shreds at the first opportunity, if the comments on a lot of those videos are any hint.

TLJ is just OK in my opinion, and I don’t rush to its defense. That said, if you want to call the backlash against it a little bit ridiculous, then you might have something there.

The informed and rational detractors of the film get washed up in the wave of hysteria you mention in your last sentence. That being said I find it puzzling why someone would spend so much time posting on a film they don’t like. I am talking to people like Dre who is obviously taking the time and feels passionately about his thoughts on the film. He makes good points but is unswayed so…why continue talking about it? IMO he feels (like many do in his position) that we will finally see the light and agree with him. Disney is not going to change their film.

That is a pretty crass assumption. Why should you not want to discuss something you feel passionate about? Do you think it gives me discomfort? Why do I need to be swayed, and why should I desire others to see the light? Why can’t it just be about exchanging ideas? Should this forum just be an echo chamber for positive opinions?

And yes, it makes more sense to me to continue to talk about a film you like then one you dislike simply because most people are not bothered to keep engaged in activities they dislike. If I don’t like a book I stop reading, If I don’t like a song on the radio I switch stations etc. But if I DO like that song I listen to it a lot and tell other people about it.

There are whole sections in this forum devoted to stuff many people don’t like: the Special Editions, and the PT. These films and versions have existed for decades, and people are still discussing them, more often than not in a negative light. So, why should I not be discussing TLJ after just three months?

Remember: the greatest teacher failure is, and in my view TLJ is a failure, and there’s a lot to learn from this particular failure in terms of my own appreciation of the Star Wars universe and works of fiction in general.

I don’t think it’s crass at all. I get speaking your mind on a flick that bugs you, disappoints you…but to talk about it for months? That I don’t get. How many times do the same talking points have to be brought up before it gets old?

If you feel passionately about this film then I am truly puzzled because your posts are mostly quite critical.

I am more perplexed about your posts then angry…

He feels passionately about Star Wars. The Last Jedi is a part of Star Wars. It’s not just a movie he was disappointed in.

Exactly! Thank you!

Here’s a pretty balanced, but critical analysis of RJ’s story choices mostly with regards to Luke, based on one of the featurettes where RJ explained his thought process:

“Brilliant or Senseless? Rian Johnson Explains The Last Jedi”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C95o0MRzBVs

Hint: the guy has many videos discussing The Last Jedi. He doesn’t dislike the movie, but he doesn’t love it either. To summarize, he thinks it’s flawed, and like me likes analyzing the movie, to discover why he feels that way.

Creox said:

Ms. Thrawn said:

I’m subscribed to a ton of reviewers and critics on YouTube whose opinions tend to vary from one another on a lot of things. But the only name I can think of off the top of my head who gave TLJ a glowing review would be Movie Bob. Doug Walker gave it a mostly positive, if I remember right?

Other than that, my subscription updates and recommendations have been inundated with negative reviews since the movie came out. YouTube has a kind of cynical culture going to it anyway, but I’ve never seen the hate bandwagon toward a work of fiction reach “Look What This Cuh-raaazy SJW Feminist Did On Campus” levels until now. I’m pretty sure there’s what amounts to a zombie horde of angry fans waiting to rip Kathleen Kennedy and Rian Johnson to shreds at the first opportunity, if the comments on a lot of those videos are any hint.

TLJ is just OK in my opinion, and I don’t rush to its defense. That said, if you want to call the backlash against it a little bit ridiculous, then you might have something there.

The informed and rational detractors of the film get washed up in the wave of hysteria you mention in your last sentence. That being said I find it puzzling why someone would spend so much time posting on a film they don’t like. I am talking to people like Dre who is obviously taking the time and feels passionately about his thoughts on the film. He makes good points but is unswayed so…why continue talking about it? IMO he feels (like many do in his position) that we will finally see the light and agree with him. Disney is not going to change their film.

That is a pretty crass assumption. Why should you not want to discuss something you feel passionate about? Do you think it gives me discomfort? Why do I need to be swayed, and why should I desire others to see the light? Why can’t it just be about exchanging ideas? Should this forum just be an echo chamber for positive opinions?

And yes, it makes more sense to me to continue to talk about a film you like then one you dislike simply because most people are not bothered to keep engaged in activities they dislike. If I don’t like a book I stop reading, If I don’t like a song on the radio I switch stations etc. But if I DO like that song I listen to it a lot and tell other people about it.

There are whole sections in this forum devoted to stuff many people don’t like: the Special Editions, and the PT. These films and versions have existed for decades, and people are still discussing them, more often than not in a negative light. So, why should I not be discussing TLJ after just three months?

Remember: the greatest teacher failure is, and in my view TLJ is a failure, and there’s a lot to learn from this particular failure in terms of my own appreciation of the Star Wars universe and works of fiction in general.

oojason said:

darthrush said:

nor this is a brilliant / good / awful / bad judgment of the article - just that it had some intriguing thoughts and takes therein.

That is all.

haaaaa

Aye, not bad for someone with ‘obvious double standards’ for posting an article in which the quality or of it was not mentioned/commented upon at all - and one you seeming haven’t read yet going on ‘From Dre’s cited text, looks like an god awful, elitist article’.

I did read it, and it is an god awful, elitist article. Not for defending TLJ obviously, but for the utter contempt it displays towards a part of the fan base. I didn’t find those very intriguing thoughts and takes, more like insulting to be honest. There have been articles posted here on TLJ, that were harsh on the film (not on the fan base), that have been treated far less kindly than this one. They were definitely not labeled intriguing thoughts and takes, if memory serves me well.