DrDre

henzINNIT said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

henzINNIT said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

FrederikOlsen said:
It’s never been a particularly well-written franchise, IMO.

ANH is considered one of the best scripts ever written. It’s still being studied in film school for ts achievements, thanks to Lucas rewitting it to perfect it numberous times. TESB is simply the continuation of this high quality standard rooted in the foundation of a perfect script. Only what came after wasn’t as good and was sometimes even quite terrible, such as this tv show.

The original Star Wars was saved in editing by cutting great chunks out of that script.

I see the consequences of an interesting YouTube video… you confuse the script quality and the final movie. Also reaching the « simplicity » of ANH is incredibly difficult : just see how complex OWK is. Complex and badly written. ANH has 2 action scenes in its first 30 minutes, introduces all its protagonists, establishes a complete universe with its rules and its story with what is clearly at stake (again compare with OWK: when does this show even try to create stakes others that the fact the audience knows Leia and Luke are kinda important in LATER movies?). You even get long sequences without dialogues and you get to follow two characters where none of which is even human. Simplicity here is the consequence of hard work, of multiple rewrites, of research, etc. OWK looks like a first draft that went in production as-is…

SW wasn’t saved through editing : editing made it better. So was the music, the clever casting choices, the special effects, etc. It’s a miracle. Which could only exist because it has the solid roots of an amazing script that EVERY screenwriter does study.

I can’t believe on this forum that we need to explain why ANH is a tremendous script 😅

I don’t get what you’re arguing here. I’ve never said ANH is comparable to OBK in terms of script. The latter clearly has many issues that I am not defending.

The ANH script had everything it needed to be the film it became. I’m not slating it or the film. It also had a bunch of crap in it. Hard work across the board made the FILM work. The rough cut that more closely resembled the shooting script was described as an unmitigated disaster. I didn’t hear this in a ‘youtube video’, it was in the DVD documentary. The deleted scenes exist. It was edited to perfection.

I personally the “whole unmitigated disaster” is a hyperbole, that became very popular in the wake of the PT in part to discredit Lucas, but also a rationalization for the difference in percieved quality between the original film and the PT.

Here’s another perspective on this idea:

https://youtu.be/olqVGz6mOVE

Matt.F said:

DrDre said:

Matt.F said:

RE: Why doesn’t Ben kill a defeated Vader?

Jedi Knights are honourable and chivalrous. Killing an opponent in a duel is one thing, but killing a vanquished fallen opponent is something entirely different. That is an execution.

We already see that when Anakin ‘executes’ a defeated Count Dooku. It is a wholly evil thing, and not the Jedi way.

So leaving Vader alive to murder millions of people is honourable and chivalrous? The situation with Dooku is not comparable, because Anakin had the option of letting Dooku stand trial. Obi-Wan on the other hand has to choose between two evils, where letting Vader live is clearly the worse option. Also, Yoda in ROTS sends Obi-Wan to kill Anakin, and Obi-Wan tells Luke, that if he will not kill Vader, the Emperor has already won.

Leaving Vader alive results in Palpatine’s defeat and the fall of the Empire (at least until Palapatine returned “somehow” lol).

“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.” to bring a bit of Tolkien into the Star Wars chat!

Anyway, I stand by my point that a Jedi executing a fallen foe would be completely out of character with the compassion and chivalry that is their code.

Fair enough, but then follow through on that, and don’t have Obi-Wan say, that either he or Vader will die today. That line is on the writers of the show. If Obi-Wan knows, that he cannot bring Vader to justice, and he won’t kill him either, just have him say, he will try to incapacitate Vader or stall him for as long as he can.

FrederikOlsen said:

DrDre said:

FrederikOlsen said:

Matt.F said:

RE: Why doesn’t Ben kill a defeated Vader?

Jedi Knights are honourable and chivalrous. Killing an opponent in a duel is one thing, but killing a vanquished fallen opponent is something entirely different. That is an execution.

We already see that when Anakin ‘executes’ a defeated Count Dooku. It is a wholly evil thing, and not the Jedi way.

Plus, trauma, shock and disgust. That much was evident from his reaction to Vader’s taunts. He wasn’t ready to see or hear that, even if it brought closure.

With the Jedi being inspired by samurais, I’m also sure he knew it would be more humiliating for Vader to crawl back to his shuttle in that state, rather than being killed in combat by his former master.

Mmm, what to do? Kill this mass murdering psychopath, who will undoubtedly continue to murder and maim, snapping the necks of innocent men, women, and children? Or humiliate the hell out of him by letting him crawl back to his shuttle? Easy choice really:

“Ze humiliation will be unbearable!”

It’s no different than every single James Bond villain informing their nemesis of their grand plan, only to leave him alive so he can make his escape and foil it. Or elderly Obi-Wan somehow thinking that lying through his teeth to manipulate Luke will make him want to become a Jedi and confront the Emperor. Even if Obi-Wan’s story about Vader killing Anakin only became a lie retroactively, people have been clutching at an explanation for decades.

If you’re expecting writing better than THAT from Star Wars, you were probably going to be disappointed no matter what Obi-Wan Kenobi did. The bad guys are very bad, and they wear evil, black robes and threatening helmets to denote that, and the good guys are very good. It’s never been a particularly well-written franchise, IMO. And I say that as someone who loves the OT dearly, but the visual effects, the music and the acting have all stuck with me more than the scripts.

To me that’s a straw man just like people said “Star Wars dialogue has always been bad” after the release of the PT. This show has set a new low for lapses in logic, and weak and lazy writing, and no this has not always been the case for the franchise.

It’s the same with Reva’ reappearance on Tatooine. People will say, that many Star Wars characters have come back from the dead. Anakin and Maul survived, why can’t Reva? Which to me is a really baffling argument. The point is not, that she survived (although there is little tension in a franchise, where death is treated like a running gag). The point is that Reva being stabbed has next to no consequences. Anakin had to be rescued and put in a suit to survive. Maul went mad and it took years to get his mojo back. Reva gets stabbed in the stomach, which if not lethal, should at the very least be a debilitating wound, but no she immediately jumps up and flies of to Tatooine, and other than a moment where she appears to be a little sensitive to the touch, she’s fine. It’s just patently ridiculous. Star Wars used to have stakes. Now it’s just spinning its wheels with characters who used to kill underlings for coming out of lightspeed to early letting enemies live for no other reason than, that the writers want them around for the next episode.

FrederikOlsen said:

Matt.F said:

RE: Why doesn’t Ben kill a defeated Vader?

Jedi Knights are honourable and chivalrous. Killing an opponent in a duel is one thing, but killing a vanquished fallen opponent is something entirely different. That is an execution.

We already see that when Anakin ‘executes’ a defeated Count Dooku. It is a wholly evil thing, and not the Jedi way.

Plus, trauma, shock and disgust. That much was evident from his reaction to Vader’s taunts. He wasn’t ready to see or hear that, even if it brought closure.

With the Jedi being inspired by samurais, I’m also sure he knew it would be more humiliating for Vader to crawl back to his shuttle in that state, rather than being killed in combat by his former master.

Mmm, what to do? Kill this mass murdering psychopath, who will undoubtedly continue to murder and maim, snapping the necks of innocent men, women, and children? Or humiliate the hell out of him by letting him crawl back to his shuttle? Easy choice really:

“Ze humiliation will be unbearable!”

Matt.F said:

RE: Why doesn’t Ben kill a defeated Vader?

Jedi Knights are honourable and chivalrous. Killing an opponent in a duel is one thing, but killing a vanquished fallen opponent is something entirely different. That is an execution.

We already see that when Anakin ‘executes’ a defeated Count Dooku. It is a wholly evil thing, and not the Jedi way.

So leaving Vader alive to murder millions of people is honourable and chivalrous? The situation with Dooku is not comparable, because Anakin had the option of letting Dooku stand trial. Obi-Wan on the other hand has to choose between two evils, where letting Vader live is clearly the worse option. Also, Yoda in ROTS sends Obi-Wan to kill Anakin, and Obi-Wan tells Luke, that if he will not kill Vader, the Emperor has already won.

4throck said:

Well, Sopranos, etc. were the old days. A modern (made in the last 2-3 years) streaming series has 10 episodes per season (or less), and production constraints are publicly acknowledged (usually blaming the pandemic or remote working). So I’ve adjusted expectations based on those clues, given by the production companies themselves.

But quality was going down before that (GOT is a good example). Even on Star Wars TV, the quality drop from Mandalorian season 1 to season 2 and BobaFet is obvious.

Indeed I’ve come to expect mediocrity, but can still enjoy a series as long as it isn’t boring or completely stupid. I simply don’t attach myself to any series as I do with a movie (where I do expect some quality).

(There’s no blame here - it’s fine if you don’t like it or if it doesn’t match your quality standards. These are just opinions, each person will have their own and they can change 😉 ).

Fair enough! 😃

4throck said:

Lots of unrealistic expectations here.

It’s a modern TV series. That means generic entertainment/storyline and production values limited by time and cost-cutting. It’s not art, it’s a (more or less rushed) product for binge/consumption.

And it’s from Disney, meaning the focus is on a broad audience and merchandising. They specifically avoid complex themes and try to make things suitable for younger people (defusing tension through humor - Leia’s pursuit, redemption arcs - Reva, etc).

So it must be compared with other similar TV series, not with movies. For what it is, I think it’s really enjoyable.

So, it’s the viewer’s fault for expecting more than mediocrity. There have been plenty of great TV shows with high production values, but more importantly good writing. The entire reason for the existence of these shows is HBO pushing the envelope with series like The Sopranos, Rome, and GOT, while Netflix has also had its string of successes. Series like Cobra-Kai have shown, that you can elevate beloved and cheesy properties like Karate Kid without losing the essence of what it was about. Fans rightly expect more from series these days, because they’ve seen them done right, and not just fan service strung together by weak writing, and a distinct lack of actual story.

Fan_edit_fan said:

timdiggerm said:

What on earth was going on with the spaceship movements? That was awful

Haha, to some it was “incredible and harkened to the opening of ANH …awesome poetry!”

And I just don’t get it. To me, there was no care brought to any aspect of the story and visuals. This should have been their chance of committing excellence to such a bold idea. I fear for the future of SW…people are praising this show up and down.

Yes, some are calling this duel one of the best in the saga, and while it certainly had a number of cool moments, I felt (like in episode 3 of the series) the duel had no rythm. There was something very chaotic in the way the lightsaber duels were shot.

Kaweebo said:

Ava G. said:

adywan said:

So basically, what you are saying is that those that think this show was a pile of garbage are just too damn stupid to to think deeply enough or are just too stupid to piece together what these highly intelligent beings that praise the show can see before their super intellectual selves because they can actually think? Right, got it.

No. I’m calling them unwilling to extend their critical minds beyond the so-called plot hole or complaint.

An example. A reviewer on YT made a deal about how in episode 5, Reva has the troopers escort Obi-Wan (who surrendered) back into the cave compound. As in, the logical thing would have been to keep him outside the entrance and wait for Vader.

I think we can infer why Reva made that move. But nobody I saw really pushed back on this. Not the other reviewers he spoke to, and nobody in his audience. It’s a common problem.

See, I’m incredibly critical of this show but I also find much of the criticism to be really stupid by some people. There’s much bigger problems in that episode alone worth mentioning over stuff like Reva having the stormies escort Kenobi back inside. At that point, she was in on his plan and the rest of her troops weren’t going to question her on it, they’re trained not to.

Now, the fact that she spent 10 minutes shooting the blast doors with a cannon for no reason only to do the smart thing and cut it open with her lightsaber at the most dramatic moment possible instead of immediately doing so upon getting there is something that still boggles my mind the writers just left in.

Or that Bail Organa would create evidence of the existence of the twins and location of “the boy” in a recording, that he made believing Obi-Wan may have been captured by the Empire, and that Obi-Wan would give this recording to another character, who just so happens to drop it, such that another character, who should be dead, can conveniently find it. It’s always a bad sign when characters are hit by the stupid stick, just such that the plot can move from point A to point B.

yotsuya said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

yotsuya said:

MalaStrana#2 said:

Vader, episode 3: « I am what you made me. »

Vader, episode 6: « You didn’t fail Anakin. I killed Anakin. »

This fucking show isn’t even internally consistent. It’s incredible how badly written this shit is…

(Just waiting for basic fans to explain « he meant what he is in a physical state not his psychological state. It fits perfectly. It bridges PT to OT perfectly » 😂)

In episode 3 Vader is referring to his suit. In episode 6 he is referring to his fall. Two totally different topics.

Quoting myself:

« (Just waiting for basic fans to explain « he meant what he is in a physical state not his psychological state. It fits perfectly. It bridges PT to OT perfectly » 😂) »

You’re so predictable 😂

But accurate. In Episode 3, Kenobi has just encountered a man he thought dead and sees the suit he is now encased in. In Episode 6 they are talking about Anakin’s fall and Vader takes full credit for it. That you are calling this out as an issue shows you didn’t watch the episodes very carefully. So it really diminishes the weight of your other comments. If you aren’t paying attention to very obvious things, how can you properly judge this series at all.

No, that is retro-fitting the argument. There’s nothing in the statement “What have you become?”, that specifies whether Obi-Wan is specifically talking about Vader’s physical appearance. There’s nothing in that episode either, that suggests Vader is specifically referring to his appearance, when he states " I am, what you made me." Given the statements in the final episode, you might conclude retro-actively, that Vader was talking about his physical appearance. On the other hand given the many lapses of logic in the series, you might also conclude the writers created yet another inconsistency. There is no objectively correct answer here. Just an interpretation of what was said.

I don’t know about you guys, but I’m really not liking the fact, that Star Wars to put it in boxing terms has been turned from a Heavy Weight Title Event to the bum of the month club, as Joe Louis put it. This stuff is just all so mediocre, the writing so sloppy and bland, and I can’t stand the praise for all these stupid callbacks: Look it’s Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan says Hello There, the comlink on the table, etc, etc. Star Wars has become referential to a fault with barely an original idea in it. Large parts of this show was just copied and pasted from other media. It’s just the fan service express, and worst of all, with all the praise for this very unremarkable show, this will probably be the future for Star Wars TV.

I liked it a lot too. A few nice twists and I’m happy Vader is portayed scary, tactical, and powerful as ever. Even Reva worked for me in this episode, and with a little more work might turn into an interesting character going forward.

MalaStrana#2 said:

idir_hh said:

I thought this was an interesting take:

every episode mirrors an Episode of the Skywalker saga (I-VI)
https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsKenobi/comments/vacere/fan_theory_every_episode_mirrors_an_episode_of/

It’s been quite obvious so far; some fans are getting nuts about these “insane parallels” but I just find it to be poor storytelling.

Star Wars has become self-referential to a fault. I really would like to see a story set in the distant past, or distant future (or both), that is completely unrelated to any character or story beat we have seen thusfar. At this point these shows feel like a great meal, that has been re-heated a number of times in the micro-wave. It still looks pretty similar, but it tastes funny, and all the nutrients have been destroyed in the process.

Anchorhead said:

DrDre said:

6. Reva kills the guy from The Path in the previous episode, but thinks a little kid, who was thrust into this situation by Reva herself, can provide brilliant insight into the workings of The Path and the Jedi.

Valid points all, whether I agree or not, but I think this may be off. I suspect she wants Leia because she’s a direct connection to Obi Wan. She might be tangentially interested in The Path, but I doubt it’s a focus for her other than it possibly being another way to get to Obi Wan.

They’ve hinted that she’s so driven to find him that it’s a distraction to their larger work. With only two episodes left, we should get some history on why she hates him so much.

Sure, but the only link Leia has with Obi-Wan is the one Reva herself created. However, in the episode she throws the symbol of the Rebellion, which she ripped out of the wall on the table as if it should mean something to a ten year old. Additionally she starts to question Leia about the Path, and Obi-Wan as if a ten year old would have any clue about the locations she was in, and the people she briefly met while being hauled around the galaxy involuntarily.

The whole scene makes very little sense. It would be much more logical for Reva to present herself as a friendly face, and a representative of the Empire put in charge of bringing Leia to the safety of her parents, in hopes of getting at least some information. All Leia knows is, that she was taken by some pirates, and then apparently rescued by a former Jedi, who themselves are wanted criminals. There’s no subtlety in Reva’s character. She’s just a one note villain, who’s inept at interrogating a little kid, fails to recognize her innate Force ability (which is her job), and wants to torture her for information, she likely doesn’t have. Presenting a friendly face would make the Reva character more interesting, and competent, being able to do more than just yell and scowl. These Inquisitors are supposed to be the best, the brightest and most powerful agents of the Empire. So far, the only intelligent one was seemingly killed off in the second episode.

Liked the first episode quite a lot (8/10), thought the second was oke (6/10), found the first confrontation between Obi-Wan and Vader to be simultaneously cool, and underwhelming (7/10). However, this fourth episode is just plain bad:

1. Episode doesn’t move the story along one bit, instead giving us the second Leia rescue in four episodes. The infiltration of an Imperial base or something similar has been done too many times already.
2. There’s hardly any character development.
3. The base nobody would be stupid enough to attempt to invade doesn’t have a simple thing as radar to detect incoming ships in Vader’s personal corner of the galaxy of all places.
4. Imperial traitor lady (I forgot her name, but like the actress and the character, despite the plot armor she has in this episode) is acting very suspiciously in plain sight, and the only guy noticing it gets killed in the same room a few feet away from other officers with nobody noticing.
5. Reva, remains extremely one note and uninteresting as a character, despite the show’s weird fetish with her. The fifth brother is even worse.
6. Reva kills the guy from The Path in the previous episode, but thinks a little kid, who was thrust into this situation by Reva herself, can provide brilliant insight into the workings of The Path and the Jedi.
7. Leia apparently was already on the radar of the Empire at 10 years old as a Jedi sympathiser, and should have been identified as being strong with the Force after resisting Reva’s mind probe (whos job it is to kill Jedi and kids with Force potential), but still manages to become a Senator and a covert leader of the Rebellion.
8. Reva calls old Ben Obi-Wan to Leia’s face, so there can be no doubt she has a strong personal relationship with Obi-Wan Kenobi, despite ANH clearly suggesting she only knows General Kenobi as a former associate of her adopted father.
9. Imperial traitor lady conveniently escapes from Reva by literally slapping a Stormtrooper unconscious, a new low for Stormtrooper competence.
10. The good guys escape while the base is on high alert with Leia hidden under a coat walking past hundreds of troops and officers without getting noticed. Are you kidding me?
11. One of the most important imperial bases can be almost destroyed by cracking one window with a single blaster shot.
12. I hoped Vader let Obi-Wan escape on purpose in the last episode, but I guess not, since he was clearly very pissed when Reva let Obi-Wan get away in this episode. This ruins the ending of the last episode, because vader could have easily grabbed Obi-Wan with the Force, or put out the fire as he did moments before. So, now Vader is incompetent as well.

Overall a very disappointing episode (4/10).

Here’s the LUT:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_CkVZJil0nGPP4AHmysFQFnqr9YCvq9o/view?usp=sharing

I do have to remark, that the source here is not of sufficient quality due to extreme black crush.

Could you share the reference frame. I will create a LUT for you to test.

Just to be clear, the result looks fine in the tool, but wrong in Final Cut? I haven’t had any issues with LUTs in Resolve, but I have never worked with Final Cut. Have you tried using LUTs from the tool in the past?

I will have a look to see what can be done.

Did you crop the black bars in the above frame while using the tool?

Darth telly said:

So I created a Lut and it looks like this in the color matcher

this is what it looks like in final cut

Could you also post the original frame you regraded?

Darth telly said:

DrDre said:

Darth telly said:

I have been using this and it is very good except that it makes all red and yellow oversaturated and green underexposed.

That should not happen. Are they identical frames with identical cropping?

Identical frames but not with identical cropping.

The cropping should be identical (or close to it). Please use the cropping option that is parr of the tool, otherwise you risk artifacts.

Darth telly said:

I have been using this and it is very good except that it makes all red and yellow oversaturated and green underexposed.

That should not happen. Are they identical frames with identical cropping?

That’s strange. Sadly, I have no experience with the Mac version. Anyone here with Mac experience who can assist?

There’s an explanation and video tutorial in the first post of the thread. Scroll down a bit to get to the tutorial, where it says “How does it work?”.