DominicCobb

snooker said:

Is there any way to briefly sneak ‘Han’s theme’ from Solo into this movie? I’m really can’t think of anything.

You could briefly snippet a quieter rendition for the Falcon’s intro. Haven’t listened to the Solo soundtrack in awhile though so can’t think of a bit that would work there off the top of my head. (Personally, I like the idea, but probably not worth the effort.)

ChainsawAsh said:

ray_afraid said:

ChainsawAsh said:

I think the natural state of the Force means anyone can tap into it, but needs practice and training to use it effectively, and some are more naturally talented than others and use it instinctually.

But the Force has its own will, and can “raise up” someone (like Rey) in a crisis situation (“Darkness rises, and light to meet it”).

I’m with this except, maybe, that last part. I don’t like the idea that the Force can bend someone to do it’s will. Especially the Light side.
I also haven’t seen the movie, so that might not be what happens.

It’s pretty much explicitly stated in The Last Jedi. I’ll see if I can find the whole quote.

JEDIT: Here it is:

SNOKE: Darkness rises, and light to meet it. I warned my young apprentice that as he grew stronger, his equal in the light would rise. Skywalker, I assumed.

Maybe not explicit, but pretty close if you ask me.

And I don’t think it’s that the Force is bending someone to do its will, but bestowing unusual mastery of the Force on someone who can do the most to counter the darkness. Rey still has free will and can run away and not do anything if she chooses.

The other thing to note is that this is merely Snoke’s interpretation of what’s going on. We can choose to believe it or not. Either way, it’s likely whatever the force is up to is more complicated and less easily explained than whatever someone might describe.

screams in the void said:

sounds reasonable to me …and wasn’t there something in the prequels about a "chosen one "?

Same goes for this. “A prophecy misread, could have been.” And we never even know where the prophecy came from.

ChainsawAsh said:

I think the natural state of the Force means anyone can tap into it, but needs practice and training to use it effectively, and some are more naturally talented than others and use it instinctually.

But the Force has its own will, and can “raise up” someone (like Rey) in a crisis situation (“Darkness rises, and light to meet it”).

Yep.

NeverarGreat said:

And that would have been perfectly fine if she hadn’t already beaten Kylo Ren with one. Placed after that fight, it feels like ability regression.

I don’t really see how, considering the similarities of her “training” style of lightsaber weilding/swinging to the style she exhibited while fighting Kylo.

NeverarGreat said:

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

I would personally leave the training stuff as is, for the reasons Nev mentioned earlier, but I am really curious to see if that caretaker restructure would work.

I’m not sure I understand Nev’s critique, to be perfectly honest. Rey’s moves are unrefined but I don’t find the scene comical at all.

The biggest issue with the scene for me personally is that the lightsaber is treated like a glowing stick rather than a deadly energy weapon. In the other Star Wars movies, characters took care to hold the saber away from themselves, but Rey almost immediately begins toying with it, flipping it around in one hand into an ineffective reverse grip (something that is almost always not done in sordfighting due to its limitations) and swinging it around with no regard for her surroundings, culminating in a complete loss of control and almost killing some caretakers.

So it’s not comical per se, except for the caretaker bit being played for laughs, but it does feel like it should be a strike against her readiness in the eyes of Luke.

Personally I don’t think the main purpose of the scene is to show her as unready, or for that to be Luke’s main takeaway.

OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

In the Sequels, however, we are told the force likes to balance itself out. So to balance Snoke and Kylo we have Rey. But Rey wasn’t a Jedi before. The force just randomly called to her?

This sets up an interesting message: don’t work hard. Just hope you will be lucky and suddenly become the one gifted person in the galaxy. All because someone else worked really hard on the other side and we need balance.

That’s a very strange interpretation of those films. Do you remember how TLJ ended?

All the ending shows is one boy suddenly getting force powers. We have little context how he got these powers, so while I suppose its possible he has been spending his life training to be able to use the force, it’s more likely he just randomly got powers with ease. The death of Luke called upon the broom boy (the only one we see) to take his place in the light side.

You can look at it that way, but that’s not what the film is saying though.

Interesting POV. Where exactly does the film say otherwise?

The film is saying that Luke’s actions are inspiring the whole galaxy to follow his example. The kid on Canto Bight is just a random kid, just like Rey. It’s saying anyone can use the force, whether they’re poor and oppressed or their parents were nothing or whatever. For them, their force powers are because of their own belief in themselves and their ability to be part of something greater than their circumstance would typically allow for.

Anything else about Luke dying and the force choosing someone like you said is just fan theory.

I see how this could be interpreted, however, I never got that message from watching. He does it with little emotion, as if the force is a regular thing.

I think a better way to tell that scene would have been the broom boy to first look up into the sky, and to play the binary sunset. Then have him glance down to the Luke doll, inspired, and then towards the broom. He reaches out, nothing happens. Then he reaches out aagain, pulling all his might, and gets it to move a little. Then he reaches again, gets the broom, and look up smiling at the stars as triumphant music closes the film.

Maybe I worded it wrong, but I’m not suggesting that Luke inspiring him literally gave him force powers. I believe the suggestion is that he (and many others, like Rey), have always had the potential. But Luke is inspiring them to use that potential to reach further and become a part of something bigger than them.

What literally gave them the force powers in the first place seems to be irrelevant.

OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

In the Sequels, however, we are told the force likes to balance itself out. So to balance Snoke and Kylo we have Rey. But Rey wasn’t a Jedi before. The force just randomly called to her?

This sets up an interesting message: don’t work hard. Just hope you will be lucky and suddenly become the one gifted person in the galaxy. All because someone else worked really hard on the other side and we need balance.

That’s a very strange interpretation of those films. Do you remember how TLJ ended?

All the ending shows is one boy suddenly getting force powers. We have little context how he got these powers, so while I suppose its possible he has been spending his life training to be able to use the force, it’s more likely he just randomly got powers with ease. The death of Luke called upon the broom boy (the only one we see) to take his place in the light side.

You can look at it that way, but that’s not what the film is saying though.

Interesting POV. Where exactly does the film say otherwise?

The film is saying that Luke’s actions are inspiring the whole galaxy to follow his example. The kid on Canto Bight is just a random kid, just like Rey. It’s saying anyone can use the force, whether they’re poor and oppressed or their parents were nothing or whatever. For them, their force powers are because of their own belief in themselves and their ability to be part of something greater than their circumstance would typically allow for.

Anything else about Luke dying and the force choosing someone like you said is just fan theory.

OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

In the Sequels, however, we are told the force likes to balance itself out. So to balance Snoke and Kylo we have Rey. But Rey wasn’t a Jedi before. The force just randomly called to her?

This sets up an interesting message: don’t work hard. Just hope you will be lucky and suddenly become the one gifted person in the galaxy. All because someone else worked really hard on the other side and we need balance.

That’s a very strange interpretation of those films. Do you remember how TLJ ended?

All the ending shows is one boy suddenly getting force powers. We have little context how he got these powers, so while I suppose its possible he has been spending his life training to be able to use the force, it’s more likely he just randomly got powers with ease. The death of Luke called upon the broom boy (the only one we see) to take his place in the light side.

You can look at it that way, but that’s not what the film is saying though.

OutboundFlight said:

In the Sequels, however, we are told the force likes to balance itself out. So to balance Snoke and Kylo we have Rey. But Rey wasn’t a Jedi before. The force just randomly called to her?

This sets up an interesting message: don’t work hard. Just hope you will be lucky and suddenly become the one gifted person in the galaxy. All because someone else worked really hard on the other side and we need balance.

That’s a very strange interpretation of those films. Do you remember how TLJ ended?

NeverarGreat said:

One could make the argument that Han has Force powers in TFA.

By one I mean me.

Han has Force powers in TFA.

I’ve always thought Han had the force. Why only TFA though?

RogueLeader said:

I would personally leave the training stuff as is, for the reasons Nev mentioned earlier, but I am really curious to see if that caretaker restructure would work.

I’m not sure I understand Nev’s critique, to be perfectly honest. Rey’s moves are unrefined but I don’t find the scene comical at all. Without saying why I moved the scene to where I did, I’m curious what your impression of the restructure is and what it might or might not accomplish?

Like you said in the caretaker thread, it might not work for pacing reasons, but regardless of that I think it would be a great approach for your edit, since no one has really tried that idea yet (since people either plop it right where it was meant to be, or they remove the caretaker stuff altogether like Hal does). It could be one of things that differentiates your edit from the the others, since it is starting to feel like it will eventually be the most edited Star Wars movie outside of The Phantom Menace.

I should mention I have no plans to share my TLJ edit. Besides the example I showed and my idea for the caretaker scene, my other changes are incredibly minimal (really just a handful of judicious trims).

So when you do that, will everything from the Caretaker scene to Rey leaving the island all be together, or will you cut away again at some point? I really struggle with understanding pacing and when it feels right to cut. I would be curious if anyone had their own perspective on that.

Yeah I probably wouldn’t move anything else at first and see how it works. TLJ I feel is pretty excellent in terms of knowing when to cut to the next thread and when not to. Looking at how TLJ does it (which was of course inspired by ESB) in comparison to say AOTC is a great way to rethink the sequencing of the prequels (which cut back and forth with a frequency that kills the forward momentum).

There is a possibility that adding the caretaker scene on will lopside the island stretch there, though, in which case moving the Yoda scene elsewhere wouldn’t be a bad idea (though I’m reluctant to do this).

RogueLeader said:

I agree with Nev, but the color correction you did to the conversation inside the temple cave looks pretty good in my opinion. I think if you wanted to separate that scene with the caretaker deleted scene (for the reasons you’ve previously mentioned), you could use that regrade and then start by removing the sunset establishing shot of the island that is in between the Rey lightsaber scene and when Luke’s VO “Lesson Two” starts. Just have Luke’s VO start over that shot of Rey instead.

Then whenever you cut back to Ach-To for the caretaker scene, you could start with that sunset island establishing shot and use the audio from where Rey initially hears of the “raiders” over it. So you could go from that establishing shot, straight to the shot of Rey looking outside at the raiders approaching the village.

My plan exactly.

And yeah, I actually got the cave scenes looking better than when I first tried. Initially I thought that’d be a lot harder but making the lightsaber stuff look like sunset is not as easy as I thought.

NeverarGreat said:

DominicCobb said:

NeverarGreat said:

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

Good point. The scene doesn’t bother me either, but just trying to see ways to make it more enjoyable for others. Although at this point I think people either like it or don’t, know matter how much I might try to make it more bearable for those who didn’t like it.

Honestly the more I think about the Last Jedi, the less things I think are necessary to change. I think for some inevitable edit of my own, I probably would use some of Hal’s trims as a basis (along with the additional Finn scenes, darthrush’s shift of the Yoda scene, and maybe a slightly altered opening crawl), but beyond that I think I would only introduce maybe two major additions that I haven’t scene before.

I myself have a fan edit in mind which is mostly pretty light save for one semi-major change that I haven’t seen proposed yet. Will post if I can ever get it to work right.

The suspense is killing me.

Well, depending on your definition of “semi-major,” I hope you don’t have your hopes up too high:
https://vimeo.com/313568431

(keep in mind this idea requires a decent amount of color correction, and this video just represents a rough mockup of that).

I see where you’re coming from with this idea, but for me it wouldn’t really work even if the color correction was perfect - Rey’s lightsaber moves in this scene are so amateurish that it feels like a joke, clashing with the intense music and Luke’s expression. If the music were changed or absent, the scene would actually work well as a humorous example of how unready she is to become a Jedi.

You’re right about the color correction. On the music, I don’t know what to tell you, ask John Williams and Rian Johnson. I think it works.

NeverarGreat said:

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

Good point. The scene doesn’t bother me either, but just trying to see ways to make it more enjoyable for others. Although at this point I think people either like it or don’t, know matter how much I might try to make it more bearable for those who didn’t like it.

Honestly the more I think about the Last Jedi, the less things I think are necessary to change. I think for some inevitable edit of my own, I probably would use some of Hal’s trims as a basis (along with the additional Finn scenes, darthrush’s shift of the Yoda scene, and maybe a slightly altered opening crawl), but beyond that I think I would only introduce maybe two major additions that I haven’t scene before.

I myself have a fan edit in mind which is mostly pretty light save for one semi-major change that I haven’t seen proposed yet. Will post if I can ever get it to work right.

The suspense is killing me.

Well, depending on your definition of “semi-major,” I hope you don’t have your hopes up too high:
https://vimeo.com/313568431

(keep in mind this idea requires a decent amount of color correction, and this video just represents a rough mockup of that).

RogueLeader said:

Good point. The scene doesn’t bother me either, but just trying to see ways to make it more enjoyable for others. Although at this point I think people either like it or don’t, know matter how much I might try to make it more bearable for those who didn’t like it.

Honestly the more I think about the Last Jedi, the less things I think are necessary to change. I think for some inevitable edit of my own, I probably would use some of Hal’s trims as a basis (along with the additional Finn scenes, darthrush’s shift of the Yoda scene, and maybe a slightly altered opening crawl), but beyond that I think I would only introduce maybe two major additions that I haven’t scene before.

I myself have a fan edit in mind which is mostly pretty light save for one semi-major change that I haven’t seen proposed yet. Will post if I can ever get it to work right.

RogueLeader said:

We were discussing the Space Leia scene a little more on Poppa’s thread. I thought about trying to use a 4K source to crop the initial shot of Leia flying by to see if it felt any different. I probably could have cropped it a little less, but I just wanted to see the difference. This version has the “woosh” sounds removed from that initial shot and metal straining sounds added for the door at the end.

https://vimeo.com/313284916

I feel that all this seems to accomplish is it makes her look like she’s moving faster, which I feel like would make people even more unhappy with the scene (granted, I don’t understand the issue to begin with).

RogueLeader said:

I was thinking he could just say nothing. I think it works without anything else said. But there might be something that could fit there, though.

I’d be interested to see how it would play either way.

I’d love to see this scene fixed and reimplemented. Rian’s reasoning on the commentary is smart but I think there’s a solution. The issue with how the scene is conceived is that it comes immediately after Rey saying she won’t fail Luke, so that perceived progress in their relationship is negated.

But the deleted scene actually does help in terms a lot in terms of both explaining Luke’s perspective but also ultimately shows Luke feeling bad and inching closer to returning to help, himself.

In my mind you resolve this simply by delaying its placement until after we cut back to Rey and Luke (so right after the Fathier chase and before Luke taps back into the force). This way you get to live for a bit with the beat of Luke and Rey getting along, and you get to follow up Luke feeling bad after the caretaker debacle with him reaching out to Leia.

As for how well this sequencing works pacing-wise, not sure. As well, you’d probably want to make the second lesson scene seem less like it’s at sunset, which I’ve tried to do with little success thus far (though I am no color expert).

NeverarGreat said:

Lots of great ideas here, and I’m definitely bookmarking those Phasma lines for later use 😉

I’m definitely intrigued too. I wonder if there are any good Lego lines too.

It makes a lot of sense to switch Kylo’s line to the Jakku village, it will have to be attempted.

Yeah I’ve never been totally satisfied with that line. But with RL’s suggestion, will Kylo just say nothing to Hux, or is there something that could go there in its place?

Anakin Starkiller said:

I second that. Maybe you could try changing the color of Takodana’s sky? To play Devil’s advocate, you could just remove Rey’s line. After all, Takodana looks real nice in fall colors.

Oh wait, I have an idea. Instead of the bland Disney Era planets, replace them with the far more creative Lucas Era planets. Between the Order 66 montage and TCW, there’s a lot of planets with fantastic visuals that are very much out of this world. Of course, the problem would be editing them in. It probably wouldn’t be doable. Maybe with enough added elements from the originals, we can make it work? It’s the cactus principle I mentioned earlier about adding rather than changing. Add some of its iconic plants (or fungi apparently) and Takodana is now Felucia. On a non-Lucas-related note, we could make D’Qar Lothal. It has an interesting McQuarrie-based design, and it could mesh well with what’s already in the film. Hell, the iconic mountains are even there, just need to recolor them. And I guess Jakku could be that junk world Maul spent a decade going insane on? Yeah, all of these would be a massive amount of work.

Interesting that you said Lucas era. Truth is that the out-there planets only really manifest in the prequels. But it is interesting because Lucas was pitching (and having his artists creating) really extravagant worlds for the OT, which were pretty much only boiled down to the basic planets we know because of budgetary/feasibility reasons. With the PT, Lucas saw it as a chance to finally do what he always envisioned. With the ST, the filmmakers are seemingly latching onto the vision that the OT ultimately presented.

Anyway, the idea to vary the planets a bit more in the ST is not a bad one. It’s a really small issue, so I personally don’t care, but if you’re passionate about it, go for it. But I’d strongly argue that once changing the look of the planets (a simple matter mostly just of aesthetics) gets in the way of the story (if you were to cut Rey’s line, for example), then you’ve gone too far.

Anyway, I’ll refer to my earlier post on the subject

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

huh, that would be cool, a little Scarif like, but I don’t think it is practical.

The autumn Takodana is cool! Love the red leaves. Although it would need to be sporadic, here and there, because of Rey’s line, “I didn’t know there was this much green in the whole galaxy.” Which is why I suggested making D’Qar autumn, but yeah, it would be more noticeable with Takodana since she actually goes into the forest. And I guess that line doesn’t matter if you cut it, but I really like that line personally.

I think you could probably get a way with a couple or so non-green trees in the wide shot, and then show some more later without stepping on Rey’s line. For her even without it being entirely green it still would make sense to say it (plus you could also of course argue that the line isn’t just referring to the color but the plant life in general).

snooker said:

paja said:

I’m still very proud of this.

Does anyone have Dom’s other description of themselves? I’d love to tackle that now.

Was told a few months ago I looked like Alden Solo.

Also was told recently I looked like one of the kids from Modern Family (I think… don’t remember I’d probably have to look it up).

Phasma is most certainly not a “strong character,” female or otherwise.

I don’t see why she has to be though.

yotsuya said:

DominicCobb said:

Shopping Maul said:

I love what you’re saying Rogue (not that I necessarily grasp all of it of course, but I like the vibe of it!) but I would add that attaining the ‘effortlessness’ implied in the Taoist way would (ironically) require effort. Think of it in terms of being a musician. It would take hours of blisters and finger-cramps and listening and learning for a guitarist to be in that zone. No-one’s going to pick up a guitar and nail it first time just because they had their baser thoughts in check. That’s the beautiful thing about the Karate Kid - he had to wash cars and stand like an Ostrich and go through all kinds of stuff to get to that place. Kershner famously said he wanted “something powerful going on in Luke’s soul” and within the (arguably) limited framework of a SW film he achieved that. The SE feels more like bullet points - ‘we need lightsaber fights, we need a Dark Lord, we need a cantina’ etc etc. Any depth to Rey’s experience seems (to me) to being created by the fans themselves rather than by anything JJ and/or Rian are doing.

Well, to use your Karate Kid example I think the idea in the ST is that Rey has essentially spent her whole life waxing cars (whereas Luke is mostly just any old kid, wasting time with his friends between chores at home).

I believe I have said much the same thing before.

As have I. We’re arguing in circles. The way the force works in the films is not narrowly defined so the interpretation that the ST takes is not a canon-betraying one, regardless of whatever Lucas may or may not have said outside of the movies (I was reading the Rinzler ESB book and at one point he suggested stating outright that Luke is a level 2 and he needs training to face the Emperor who’s a level 9 or something - that’s dumb as fuck and should be ignored as it’s not in the movie). The new films should be able to forge their own path.

Whether you like it or not is a different matter. But the approach is justified.

screams in the void said:

that’s the thing though ,she starts TLJ in a place of doubt , " I need someone to show me my place in all this ." In the end ,she has cast that doubt aside .She literally has no time to doubt or question her abilities in the moment where she lifts the rocks or people will die . I am not sure what you meant by it happens off screen . If you are referring to her thoughts , I suppose that could be the case but I don’t see how that is relevant . other than comparing it to Luke expressing doubt about lifting the x-wing . And having her use two hands would be to weaken her character in my opinion .

The moment is at the climax of the film, and should be the climax of her arc. Everything has come to a head here. She’s starts the film with doubt, yes, about her “place in all this.” But her mission throughout the film is to find the person who will save the Resistance. First she looks to Luke, then Ben. Ultimately the truth is that that person is her (which is also the answer to her place in it all). That realization should’ve happened in that spot, with her coming into the scene doubting herself and the fate of the Resistance after her failure with both Luke and Kylo and having no choice but to assume the mantle herself, which she isn’t prepared for. Instead the realization has either happened off screen or simply has yet to happen at all. I suppose Rey coming to terms with that understanding of her role will likely be part of her story in IX.

You could definitely lean in on the blue for the magic hour shots (so they essentially look like evening on earth). Would fit well anyway with the shot of BB8 at night.