DominicCobb

NeverarGreat said:

DominicCobb said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

TFA has tropes played straight, with objects intact. TLJ deconstructed tropes and the objects representing them (the saber and the helmet. Now IX is reconstructing the tropes and objects. Interesting visual metaphors.

On the subject of Kylo’s mask, TLJ only made explicit a point TFA was already making.

That sort of spelling-out kind of strips the subtlety and even dignity from the characters, don’t you think?

If the mask had been destroyed in TFA like the film implies, it would have meant that Kylo has developed as a character between movies to the point where he is comfortable owning his role in the galaxy. Instead the character is devolved and the mask briefly and awkwardly brought back so that we can laugh at its absurdity.

Why should the character develop between films when TLJ happens immediately after? Kylo doesn’t shed his Vader worship in TFA, it’s only after he realizes that killing his father didn’t do what he thought it would that he does that. The explicitness in TLJ of the TFA deconstruction is important because it’s Ben having to face the facts and come to terms with what the audience can see is true, but he previously wouldn’t admit.

I’m not sure in what regard the character has devolved.

It’s the same for the rest of the characters, honestly.

Finn’s character is regressed almost back to Maz’s castle, where he has no interest in helping the Resistance and cares only for Rey. A reading of TFA where he’s not at least a little willing to help the Resistance would be really uncharitable.

Finn literally says on Starkiller base that he’s “only there to get Rey.” Obviously he’s a little willing to help the Resistance, he decides to help them in TLJ the second he realizes that there’s a way to jam the Supremacy’s tracker.

Do I even have to mention Rey, who got over her absent parents in TFA only to have that return as her defining character flaw?

When did Rey get over her parents exactly? She was able to move onto help the Resistance and not go back to Jakku, but I’m not sure why that should imply “I don’t care anything about my parents at all anymore and will never think about them again.” Not to mention, her fixation on her parents in TLJ is really just a fixation on how she sees and defines herself, which is not something she necessarily figured out in TFA.

Or Hux, the human punching bag?

Hux, the man who did so much in TFA and could never be a punching bag because he was so cool and badass?

Or Snoke, who is now half the character he used to be?

Is this a joke? Because he’s smaller now? Because he’s cut in half? Literally have no idea what else this might refer to. Snoke is a lot more clearly defined in TLJ and comes across a lot more dangerous.

ChainsawAsh said:

I wouldn’t mind slipping some of Williams’s Han theme from Solo somewhere in the OT, but can’t think of a great place for it.

It would be an interesting exercise but probably wrong for Revisited.

Anakin Starkiller said:

TFA has tropes played straight, with objects intact. TLJ deconstructed tropes and the objects representing them (the saber and the helmet. Now IX is reconstructing the tropes and objects. Interesting visual metaphors.

On the subject of Kylo’s mask, TLJ only made explicit a point TFA was already making.

ziggyonice said:

RoccondilRinon said:

Also, not sure if Ady has answered this, but is the Imperial March being kept in the Death Star reveal, given the full march treatment of the Death Star theme in Rogue One?

I am wondering this myself. I almost feel as though “The Imperial March” should NOT be in A New Hope, perhaps with the only exception being when Vader is on the screen — the theme has been closely tied with Vader and his leadership of the fleet.

However, after Rogue One, they chose to embrace the classic Death Star 1 theme (dun, dun dun dun!) and also introduced “The Imperial Suite,” which almost seems more like an appropriate theme for the Empire in the time of Tarkin.

I would personally like to see The Imperial Suite in ANH:R HD, and keep The Imperial March out of it (with the exception, perhaps, being when Vader makes a move — maybe the lightsaber battle with Obi-Wan or when Vader hops into his TIE fighter).

By the way, here’s the theme I’m referring to (“The Imperial Suite”):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uKtUlPmhqw

Gonna be a big no thank you from me. I like Giacchino’s score but it would not fit with Williams here (nor is it necessary). If any music is added the only thing that makes sense is the Imperial March.

When SW was written, the intention was that Luke and Leia would ultimately end up together (simply because that’s how these kinds of stories usually work). Saying that she’s immediately “dismissive” of Luke but “instantly intrigued” by Han is an incredible misrepresentation of what happens. She’s immediately dismissive of both of them, but quickly comes to respect Luke while the same cannot be said for Han. What you’re seeing is simply that Leia happens to have more chemistry with Han.

When they wrote ESB, they clearly noticed this, so they decided to add the Han/Leia romance with a strong love triangle in mind. This was prominent in early drafts and deleted scenes. When it finally came down to it, and the film was trimmed to what it is with extraneous bits removed, we ultimately have a movie where Luke expresses no romantic interest in Leia and vice versa, only one scene where Leia kisses Luke to make Han jealous (with any other romantic context for their kiss completely left out on the cutting room floor).

So in the end, yes, the love triangle never manifested. SW very lightly suggests that Luke and Leia might be a thing, but in the context of the next two films, it is much easier to ignore this and focus on Leia and Han’s bickering, which while not romantic in the original became such in ESB (which retroactively make them seem so in the first film).

Inbreeding never had anything to do with it, and thank god that one poster who always talked about that hasn’t popped up in a very long time.

nl0428 said:

Does anyone thinks that Episode IX could bring the fan base back together, or will it still just make many mad? It makes me annoyed how critical and harsh people can be.

It will be impossible for it not to make a significant portion of the fan base mad. Which portion? We will have to wait and see.

Valheru_84 said:

nl0428 said:

Fang Zei said:

SilverWook said:

Fang Zei said:

Anthony Daniels tweeted this out earlier today,

https://twitter.com/adaniels3po/status/1092555522765713408?s=21

which means we’re definitely getting some big piece of news this week, even if it’s not the title.

Revenge Of The Droids 😉

I did find it appropriate that they had Tony tweet that out.

Hasn’t it long been assumed that the saga would end with the droids giving their “journal” to the Whills?

George Lucas did say at one point that the only characters that will live throughout the saga would be C-3PO and R2-D2. I really like that, and I believe that Lucasfilm will fulfill that. I believe they will also do the same for the Millennium Falcon by passing it to new generations of characters.

Lucasfilm are definitely upholding George’s statement/wishes for the two droids to be in every saga film though I feel they are only token appearances in the ST, not much above glorified cameos compared to their involvement in the stories throughout the PT and especially the OT. The focus is clearly on BB8 as the new main droid along with the new cast of characters that Disney obviously want to take forward (meaning either more saga films or offshoot character films, otherwise why introduce and focus so heavily on so many new core characters at this point in the saga?).

C-3PO wasn’t given anything beyond token “cameo” appearances” in the PT (if we ignore him becoming a battle droid, which I think we’d all prefer).

I also felt C3PO was treated rather disrespectfully in TLJ in the manner and tone that Poe told him to shut up.

Wait until you find out how Han Solo treats him.

(The only time 3PO was disrespected was in the aforementioned AOTC sequence).

(To clarify what I meant earlier, in the shooting script the map didn’t exist, only Luke’s lightsaber, which is where Rey’s force insight comes in. Irrelevant to any fan edit but interesting to think about.)

RogueLeader said:

Also, that would be a cool idea for your edit! They fail their mission, but if Rey has “seen” where Luke is, it would also help justify why Rey off all people has to find him.

For whatever it’s worth, I’m pretty sure this is the way it was originally in the shooting script (or something along those lines).

I’ve long thought (since the film came out) that they should have gotten the second part of the map from Starkiller base. It’s so obvious a solution, you don’t even need to get rid of the super weapon aspect, as long as that goal is in place the climax would suddenly feel more a piece with the rest of the story anyway. If there’s a way to fan edit it in, I’d like to hear it (though I’m skeptical).

Guy’s not throwing shade at TLJ. Taiki is know for comedy (and most recently making the most comedic Marvel film they’ve done yet) so he’s obviously just speaking from that perspective.

The bump reminds me to mention I did this with some friends back in November. Shit’s insane. Highly recommended.

SilverWook said:

I think some people are getting too antsy about the title. Must be a slow day on twitter. 😉

This is like the third or fourth time this has happened recently. When it the title drops it’ll just drop. Don’t trust the rumors.

I doubt a title today, seems like wishful thinking. End of principal photography might be a better bet, that’s when we got TFA.

If I were to put in my two cents, I’d say the eyebrows give him too much of a kindly old man look, which I don’t think is appropriate for the character.

Depends if public/private.

RogueLeader said:

I think the big question it comes down to is how IX will conclude and tie into the saga thematically. If Ben dies evil, what will the concluding message be for the overall saga? What if Ben is redeemed and lives?

And if he is redeemed, how will that be executed? I think we immediately think of Vader’s redemption and just seeing it as a repeat of that, but I Ben being redeemed doesn’t necessarily mean it will play out the same way it did for Vader.

At this point “the way it played out for Vader” is already not an option. Kylo already killed Snoke, so at least in some regard it will be different. He’s the Supreme Leader now and we’re in uncharted territory which is very exciting to me.

I will say I’m worried most about how they’ll handle Ben but at the same time I have the most confidence in that aspect. I think JJ, having originated the character, definitely has what it takes to resolve his story.

Unfortunately the biggest shame of the trilogy is that we’ll never get to see Ben and Leia share the screen together.

“Because it’s been done before” in my mind is a terrible reason not to do something. I’m not expecting anything specific in terms of what happens in IX (other than generally continuing and concluding the themes and character arcs of the trilogy), except I have to say if Ben ends the trilogy being just straight up evil, I will be pretty miffed. In my mind that’d be anti-thetical to the spirit of Star Wars.

NeverarGreat said:

I kind of wish that they had finished the 3D versions of the OT (with updated effects) and released them by 2017, because then they would have continued as cultural touchstones for a new generation.

Maybe just me but when I was a kid I never cared about the special editions. I honestly didn’t even notice the effects had been updated, only the obvious things like the extra stormtroopers that corner Han, the Wampa, Jedi Rocks, etc. If you show your kids the originals at the right age (i.e. early) they won’t even know they’re old movies.

But in terms of there being a new significant re-release of the OT, there’s probably something to be said for that (and it’s almost certain that if Lucas started with ANH in 2012 he would have made a lot more money than TPM 3D did).

Misrepresentations when it comes to Rey tend to be extremely one sided. The other day someone said Rey’s “only moment of weakness” is when she fails to turn Ben. This is the same Rey that in one scene literally becomes so emotional that she runs crying into a forest to be alone.

I don’t think it’s just a matter of who did what. Ben’s heritage and what it does or does not mean for his destiny is an integral part of his story. Han suggests he turned because of his blood, Leia denies. The idea that your blood relatives don’t determine who you are is one of the main messages of the ST.

Anakin Starkiller said:

The way it’s edited feels painfully fake.

There’s more constructive ways to say that.

OutboundFlight said:

At the end of the day it comes down to these two lines:

After his greatest failure, Luke hangs from the side of cloud city, lacking weapons and a hand. Completely defeated, he calls for help… anyone.

After her greatest “failure” (this is her one moment of weakness so far) Rey escapes from the Supremacy, having failed to bring Ben Solo back. But her first line back is:

Yeah, I like this!

One thing that’s easy to forget apparently is that at the end of Empire, Luke’s back in tip top chipper shape (already has his hand back), confident and with a plan to save Han being his last line in the film. Whereas Rey’s last line in the film is one of fear and doubt.

rocknroll41 said:

TLDR Version: Gen X’ers and Millennials will eventually phase out, and with them, so will a lot of the hate for the PT and ST, respectively.

I agree (we had this argument recently and I took some shit for saying this, but it makes sense).

One thing that’s interesting to note (interpret this how you will)…

Adjusted Box Office for Star Wars films:

1. Star Wars
2. The Force Awakens
3. Empire Strikes Back
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Phantom Menace
6. The Last Jedi
7. Rogue One
8. Revenge of the Sith
9. Attack of the Clones
10. Solo

Zachary VIII said:

DominicCobb said:

Zachary VIII said:

nl0428 said:

Zachary VIII said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

The real question is whether the ST will be more loved than the PT.

I think the movies will. But the video games, books, comics and cartoons that expand the PT era will be viewed as better than the ST era expanded universe.

I disagree. The other forms of media helped fill in plot holes that Lucas made in the prequels, and while they are better than the prequels, I would not say that they’re better than the sequel trilogy. Not to get off topic, but in my opinion, I did think the original Clone Wars micro-series was the most underrated piece of Star Wars content yet, and I thought Filoni’s series was VERY hit and miss. As for the sequel trilogy expanded universe, it’s good, but it’s still young in the amount of content compared to the twenty years of expanded content the prequels received. Let’s just see where it goes and just let it grow.

Even in the first few years of the PT, there was already a ton of new content because of the Clone Wars multimedia project. Especially in the area of video games, the early 2000’s gave us Battlefront, KOTOR, Republic Commando, Star Wars: Galaxies etc. So far all we’ve got from EA in the nearly 6 years since they got the rights to Star Wars games are 2 very mediocre Battlefront remakes. Also, say what you will about both Clone Wars series’, but they’re both certainly better than Resistance. I hope that the ST period gets some expansion, but it seems to be developing way slower than the PT expanded universe.

Definitely slower, but remember that a lot of PT content came after the movies (TCW premiered in 08, and we already have far more content from Resistance than we had from the contemporary Clone Wars series - quality aside). Don’t forget too that saying the Clone Wars multimedia project was “in the first few years of the PT” is inaccurate, as that didn’t kick off until after AOTC came out (and then continued after ROTS). There was definitely more, but it’s easy to misremember what came out when (not to mention, the PT had two extra years to fill out).

I think that, in-universe eras aside, there’s an argument to be made that the Disney years have been just as good when it comes to books and comics. Video game-wise things were indisputably better when LucasArts was still around (though the new Battlefronts are far from “mediocre”).

Maybe, I still remember there being way more stuff when the Prequels came out, though I was fairly young, so that may be why. Hopefully the early 2020s will have some good stuff. Also, the new Battlefronts have a ton of problems that are well documented. Jim Sterling recently did a pretty good video on EA’s Battlefront games.

I was young too, so most of the stuff I remember is the wealth of kid-oriented content - exactly the kind of stuff that exists now that we, being older and not the target demo, aren’t even aware of.

As for the Battlefronts, I don’t need to watch a video. I have played both games quite a bit. The biggest things the fans complained about during each game’s rollout have been fixed at this point.