I just can’t imagine Han wearing that silly shirt.
It’s literally just a black version of the shirt he wears in ESB.
Maybe that’s what it is in the movie, but that’s not what the art on the card looks like.
Oh I see (had not looked at the card). Yeah not great, plus his head seems too small.
I know Lucas’ own revisionism has been discussed ad nauseam here on this site, and it definitely deserves the debate because despite it feeling like most Star Wars fans know Lucas is a little guilty of this, I also believe that Lucas has sort of “won” in some regard to that. It’s hard to explain, but if you were to develop some kind of test that was able to determine how “aware” someone was of Lucas’ revisionism, I believe most fans would score lower than you might think.
And for me, I guess that leads to the question of how it affects the fanbase’s everyday perception of the franchise, overall? I don’t know if this exactly fits, but one think I have noticed is how on a lot of sites it feels like the discussion regarding the prequels has really changed in the past ten years. I am a Prequel kid myself, but I seem to recall a lot of talk about George ruining the franchise, but nowadays you often hear defenses of the Prequels as George’s “vision”, and how it was all planned out by him (fans nowadays seem to have an obsession with the idea “overarching” plans), but if you read The Secret History of Star Wars, it paints a very different picture. Usually George Lucas and his vision become weapons to use against the Sequel Trilogy.
Ironically the fact that Lucas was making it all up as he went along is actually something that comes across very clearly in Rinzler’s books (which do not feel scrubbed by Lucas at all, in fact I don’t remember any mention of midichlorians - something in a later edition?).
One thing that I think helped Lucas stoke confusion and make his revisionist claims so plausible is how frequently he would reuse old concepts of his that never made it through (i.e. the Ewoks battling stormtroopers is an evolution of an idea he had for the climax of his first Star Wars draft, which aids his claim that he wrote the whole OT in one go and then split it up into three parts). But these days, all the info is there for you to see where he’s lying and where he’s not. Rinzler has no qualms breaking down what was added when and in which draft.
Anyway your point about the fanbase’s misconceptions here are painfully spot on.
I think a major difference is obviously that now that Lucas is gone, you can really look back at his tenure in a historical sense, but the Sequel Trilogy development is still an ongoing thing. Eventually I hope that they will release a book that gives us more information about the making of process. Interestingly enough, J.W. Rinzler was still with Lucasfilm when the acquisition happened up until TFA was released, and was actually documenting it for another eventual book, but it seemed like Lucasfilm wasn’t ready for that, since they halted the development. Rinzler was even going to start a blog on his own called “The Rise and Fall of Star Wars”, but it appeared he may have been asked to not continue that.
On one hand, I sorted of don’t blame Lucasfilm for not wanting to reveal too much of the behind the scenes information before the Sequel Trilogy is complete, to avoid spoiling anything for subsequent films. On the other hand, I will be a little disappointed if we never get anything like that. And even if we did, it kind of makes you wonder how much will be “redacted”, per se. While Rinzler himself seems a little salty about the changing of the guard, we also know we was himself responsible for helping George’s revisionism. Eventually, I would like to see a spiritual sequel to The Secret History of Star Wars that covers the development of the Sequel Trilogy following the Disney acquisition, written by a third party, such as unaffiliated fans.
As disappointed as I am that we haven’t gotten “Making of” books for each Disney film, I realize that even if we did, they wouldn’t be anything like the ones we have for the OT. Even putting aside all the things they wouldn’t want to talk about for fear of spoiling, and also putting aside some things like discussing Harrison’s injury which could potentially run up against the legal department, there is a level of frankness to Rinzler’s OT books that you simply would never get from a book discussing a recent production - not from LFL, not from Disney, not from literally anyone. It’s only when you have decades in between that you can be privileged to hear official accounts of such things with that level of honesty. So it’s a give and take. I’d prefer something rather than nothing, but ultimately I do understand that even if we got something it wouldn’t be everything we’d want.
The beginning of Filoni’s other series began slow as well. I actually think Resistance is starting out slight better than either Rebels or The Clone Wars
As someone who loved TCW and thought Rebels was okay, I couldn’t make it through 10 minutes of the first episode of this.
I’ll say right off the bat that for me my opinions on TCW and Rebels are switched with you. But I disagree with rodney, I get his point but I don’t think the slow to start here is really comparable to the other shows in a lot of ways.
So you guys are saying I should give it another shot?
Honestly might be better to jump into a later episode and see how you feel about that.
Finally caught up with Resistance and I must say I underestimated it a bit. It started out so low stakes and kid-oriented that I sort of figured it’d just meander on like that for most of its run (and, well, it did for for the first ten episodes or something). But the last few episodes since the FO occupied the station (and one or two of the episodes before) have proven that in this show things will actually happen plot-wise other than random hijinks. The show is definitely still geared to a younger audience than either TCW or Rebels, but there’s some really interesting stuff going on and we’re seeing a lot of the world building that people have been craving for in the ST era. Really fascinated to see where things go once they sync up with TFA.
Smaller budget doesn’t preclude out of US filming. GOT films all around the world with a similar price tag.
That said, a Kenobi series could easily film in the states.
Also, truth is that a Kenobi miniseries probably makes more sense than a movie in a lot of ways.
Never thought this thread would be relevant to me, but I’m reminded that the theater I saw AOTC in was shut down a couple years back. Think it’s still standing though.
Haha, is that reaction to the actual footage of the scene, or the fact that it is on tumblr?
The fact that the scene was, in fact, filmed. I think it’s maybe one of the top SW cut scenes that should have been in the movie (well, depending on how it looks when played out).
I was initially curious about the same thing, but it was.
You can find photos online from the scene, but apparently there is some behind-camera video of the scene from some BTS material. Not sure which video these clips come from though. http://rubbish78.tumblr.com/post/125555608140/deleted-scene-between-padme-amidala-and-obi-wan
Oh fuck
Yeah, he kind of makes you realize that there are a quite a few deleted scenes for all the movies that we still haven’t seen, or even know about.
One scene I recently learned about was one between Padme and Obi-Wan in Revenge of the Sith. They talk briefly about Anakin and Obi reveals that he knows they have feelings for each other, but promises to keep their secret.
You can actually read the script for that scene (and several other scenes) here: http://starwars.rossiters.com/rots_uf91-100.html
Was that ever actually filmed though? There’s a lot of deleted bits you can find from reading the novelization (although with those you kinda have to guess whether the author actually came up with it). One would think that would’ve been included as a deleted scene if it was shot, but then again who knows.
DominicCobb said:
B) that a lot about what we got in Solo would have been the same even if they had indeed brought it to the finish line.I don’t think that would have been the case as Ron Howard reportedly re-shot 70% of the movie and I imagine the 30% kept from L&M was probably edited quite differently that they would have envisioned.
There’s more to a film that just that. Understand that the entirety of preproduction was done by Lord/Miller. So just about the entire look of the film is L/M (cinematography, art direction, costumes, locations, much of the FX work and sequences). This also means they had a good deal of say in the development of the script (though if rumors are to be believed their improvisational straying from the script during filming was an issue). All that on top of the 30% L/M shot. So really the main thing that would have been different is the tone - of the some of the performances and editing (and staging). I personally believe this constitutes a significant difference but the truth is that a lot of people would have generally felt the same way about the film, either way.
I think it’s strange they treated the anthologies as “safe films” while “experimenting” with the saga films.
Personally, I don’t think they were envisioned that way, and I think ultimately the reasoning is probably that saga films are sure bets, while spin-offs are somewhat risky propositions to begin with, so they have to be careful not to limit too much the appeal of the latter.
Lucasfilm limited Gareth Edwards because they didn’t like his direction. And yet most fans applaud RO’s darker side and wanted more.
We don’t have the full picture, but I haven’t read anything that would suggest that “limiting Edwards because they didn’t like his direction” is true. That’s merely fan speculation.
Lucasfilm fires Lord and Miller for being too wacky. While I see their reasoning, after watching Spiderverse and LEGO Movie 2 I firmly believe these two are geniuses. Everything they touch sounds horrible and ends up perfect. What we got instead was a mediocre very safe movie- which is a shame.
Again, no full picture. While that reason is probably true, we need to remember that A) Lord/Miller did not direct either Spider-Verse or Lego Movie 2, and B) that a lot about what we got in Solo would have been the same even if they had indeed brought it to the finish line.
Both Rogue One and Solo have had extensive reshoots. The Last Jedi… all Kennedy kept saying was how much she likes working with Rian, how good his script and story is, how they are going to give him an entire trilogy before the movie has even been received.
To say they were confident is an understatement… there is a clear difference between the productions of these movies.
I never said there wasn’t a difference. In fact I cut out that part of your post because it was irrelevant to what I was talking about (which is simply that your assessment of the RO/Solo situations are off).
In my mind, the more accurate comparison to Rogue One is TFA. Both started production with scripts that weren’t fully there yet (because they needed to hit a release date), and both continued to be rewritten after production and thus needed extensive reshoots (RO moreso, of course). Biggest difference being that JJ and Kasdan did the rewriting on TFA with JJ directing, while on RO Tony Gilroy was brought in for the rewrite and then directed the reshoots with Edwards.
Solo is a different situation because apparently the problem wasn’t the script (in LFL’s mind), it was that Lord/Miller weren’t following it closely enough.
With TLJ, Rian had a lot of time to get the script right before production, so filming went much more smoothly, with only incredibly minor reshoots necessary (i.e. the usual way it’s supposed to work).
The “uncharacteristically giving full control” is just the wrong way of looking at it. JJ had “full control” on TFA. Edwards had “full control” before they realized they were in a rough spot. Lord and Miller had “full control” before LFL realized their direction was not what they wanted.
I think it’s strange they treated the anthologies as “safe films” while “experimenting” with the saga films.
Personally, I don’t think they were envisioned that way, and I think ultimately the reasoning is probably that saga films are sure bets, while spin-offs are somewhat risky propositions to begin with, so they have to be careful not to limit too much the appeal of the latter.
Lucasfilm limited Gareth Edwards because they didn’t like his direction. And yet most fans applaud RO’s darker side and wanted more.
We don’t have the full picture, but I haven’t read anything that would suggest that “limiting Edwards because they didn’t like his direction” is true. That’s merely fan speculation.
Lucasfilm fires Lord and Miller for being too wacky. While I see their reasoning, after watching Spiderverse and LEGO Movie 2 I firmly believe these two are geniuses. Everything they touch sounds horrible and ends up perfect. What we got instead was a mediocre very safe movie- which is a shame.
Again, no full picture. While that reason is probably true, we need to remember that A) Lord/Miller did not direct either Spider-Verse or Lego Movie 2, and B) that a lot about what we got in Solo would have been the same even if they had indeed brought it to the finish line.
With a name like Lobot, you’d think that would be a given?
Isn’t it short for lobotomy? I thought the idea was that he was a human with a robot brain or something like that.
I don’t think androids fit SW. The robots are supposed to be low tech nuts-and-bolts kind of stuff. Doesn’t really make sense aesthetically to mix with another approach.
The only difference is that I don’t take any enjoyment out of it but definitely a fascination I guess of how from my perspective, Star Wars has gone so wrong from what initially looked like such a promising start to the ST.
Fair enough. The ST definitely has parts that could bother some fans. Hopefully the future spin offs and TV shows will have a more unified appeal.
Probably the opposite, the spin-offs will likely have specific appeal while the future films will be the big tent SW content.
Been reading Rinzler’s ESB book and one funny thing is that Harrison recognized and pointed out both continuity issues with the carbonite prop (wrong shirt and no shackles).
Not seeing what’s funny about that, but the Ugnaughts removed the binders and it was even shown in a close-up.
You’ve never heard the expression “funny thing”? Weird man, it’s a very common phrase and rarely refers to something that’s actually laugh out loud funny (usually just fun/interesting).
Harrison points both out and they Kersh decides to fix it by having Han be jacketless and show the cuffs removed. “Funny” because the shirt itself is still wrong and the continuity error about the shackles still prevails with many fans because of the ones on his arms (even though they likely wouldn’t prohibit the pose he makes).
Not seeing what’s “fun/interesting” about that, seems more of a mundane anecdote about how pretty much anyone would react.
Very cool man, thanks for your input. Will check with you next time before I post a “general Star Wars random thought.”
^ Sorry but I’m not interested in any theories or reading any books that “explain” things. If it’s not in the movie then it doesn’t form part of my initial understanding, feelings and reaction to it.
It’s about the sequel trilogy.
Hence why I’m not the least bit interested.
Sorry.
Not the least bit interested in anything about the sequel trilogy… but constantly posting in a thread about an upcoming film in said trilogy…
The “subverted expectations” meme is one of the most annoying things to come out of the TLJ discourse, and whenever someone drops it it’s clear they’re either arguing in bad faith or don’t know what they’re talking about.
Eh, there are some things about TLJ that were clearly designed specifically to subvert audience expectations, but it’s certainly nowhere near as prevalent in the film as the internet would lead you to believe.
Was subverting expectations in mind? Obviously. It’s been stated by Johnson, that’s where the meme comes from. But the purpose of such is, at best, misunderstood by many.
The “subverted expectations” meme is one of the most annoying things to come out of the TLJ discourse, and whenever someone drops it it’s clear they’re either arguing in bad faith or don’t know what they’re talking about.
The only way I’d be okay with a X/XI/XII and beyond is if Kylo has offspring that the next trilogy focuses on. Numbered saga films should be about the Skywalkers at this point, otherwise they should be a separate series that isn’t Episode X/XI/XII.
Of course, if Lucas hadn’t made I-VI into “The Saga of Anakin Skywalker,” I’d be fine with IX being the last we see of the Skywalker bloodline, with X-XII having nothing to do with that family. But since that’s what the movies turned into, there’s no reason not to begin a new saga that isn’t Episode X+ if they aren’t continuing the Skywalker family past Kylo.
Lucas making it into “the Saga of Anakin Skywalker” or “the Tragedy of Darth Vader” became irrelevant the second they announced Episode VII, just as the OT being “the Adventures of Luke Skywalker” became irrelevant as soon as the prequels were decided. Now they’re “the Skywalker Saga,” which means that yeah, they shouldn’t make any more if all the Skywalkers end up dead… but then again who’s to say they couldn’t reframe the saga again like they’ve done before…
Creox said:
Here’s a thought. Perhaps her and Kylo are the epitome of force users. She’s not a Mary sue but the last conduit for the force, light and dark. She is the first to access and use the full potential of it?I’m not sure what you mean by this, but if Rey and Kylo are simply lucky enough to be imbued with all this power, it becomes rather uninteresting if there are no consequences.
What do you mean no consequences? Who said that?
And again it diminishes Luke. It’s as if the saga is saying that Jedi greatness isn’t that difficult to attain after all, and that Luke was simply a lousy candidate.
Well first of all, Yoda does actually say outright that Luke is a lousy candidate. Second, powers =/= greatness.
Well the first six films - however ham-fisted in the telling - make a huge deal about training and how the wrong mind-set can have disastrous consequences when it comes to striving for Jedi-hood. The OT is about Luke’s growth from naive farmboy who craves adventure to a Zen master who wants to redeem his fallen father. And he suffers tremendous failures along the way. Anakin’s story charts that of a child prodigy whose emotional issues lead to ruin, despite his incredible talent.
Rey is just super-powerful. That’s it. No anger-issues or barriers or emotional/ego pitfalls from having lived like Conan the Barbarian on Jakku. She just nails it every time, and over two days! Sure, she’s sad about her parents, but it proves no hinderance whatsoever to her progress as an instant Jedi.
You’re missing the point. Rey’s goal in the story is not to become a super powerful Jedi.
So power does equal greatness in this trilogy (so far at least).
In what possible way is that true? Kylo is clearly very powerful but is he a great Jedi?
Meanwhile Kylo is the same angry psycho that he was in TFA.
I mean, I guess if you reducing characters to flippantly described personality traits it’s easy to see why you’d misunderstand what’s going on.
Rian Johnson stated that he saw both Rey and Kylo as the protagonists of the ST. And they essentially form two halves of one whole. It is stated that they both have potential the likes of which haven’t been seen before, but they both end up doing very different things with it. If you want to talk about consequence, look at Ben, and what his desire for the power of the dark side as left him with. Whereas Rey is the opposite, she didn’t want the power, but it was thrust upon her. She just wants a family, while Ben struggles to cut ties with his the best he can. In a way, you almost have to look at their stories as a unit, and how they compare and contrast.
Ultimately to me it’s weird to see people complain about rehashed elements that to me are mostly minor window dressing stuff (basic plot similarities and such) while simultaneously complaining that more important things (like character arcs) aren’t being rehashed. Well, to me, we’ve already had two trilogies where the story is that the main character has had to learn discipline in gaining their powers, one where it goes right, one where it goes wrong. I like how in this trilogy we’re getting something different.
Yes, Yoda did denounce Luke as a candidate, and Luke proved him wrong. That’s the beauty of Luke’s arc.
Unfortunately if you ask me this is where the OT slightly falters, as the gap from Luke initially proving Yoda right and making a big mistake to Luke being a wizened Jedi knight is not really covered. Hopefully IX sticks the landing better than ROTJ.
Yep!
So we should look at the original Marvel run for clues?
I’ve been picking up random issues of the OG Marvel run when I come across them at various comic shops, but they never have this one. Guess everyone has the same idea I do, which is that it’d be fun to have considering the title re-use.
Been reading Rinzler’s ESB book and one funny thing is that Harrison recognized and pointed out both continuity issues with the carbonite prop (wrong shirt and no shackles).
Not seeing what’s funny about that, but the Ugnaughts removed the binders and it was even shown in a close-up.
You’ve never heard the expression “funny thing”? Weird man, it’s a very common phrase and rarely refers to something that’s actually laugh out loud funny (usually just fun/interesting).
Harrison points both out and they Kersh decides to fix it by having Han be jacketless and show the cuffs removed. “Funny” because the shirt itself is still wrong and the continuity error about the shackles still prevails with many fans because of the ones on his arms (even though they likely wouldn’t prohibit the pose he makes).
Creox said:
Here’s a thought. Perhaps her and Kylo are the epitome of force users. She’s not a Mary sue but the last conduit for the force, light and dark. She is the first to access and use the full potential of it?I’m not sure what you mean by this, but if Rey and Kylo are simply lucky enough to be imbued with all this power, it becomes rather uninteresting if there are no consequences.
What do you mean no consequences? Who said that?
And again it diminishes Luke. It’s as if the saga is saying that Jedi greatness isn’t that difficult to attain after all, and that Luke was simply a lousy candidate.
Well first of all, Yoda does actually say outright that Luke is a lousy candidate. Second, powers =/= greatness.
what potentially really exacerbated that issue was that we just saw Harrison actually play him not three years before. So I’m sure a lot of people didn’t feel the urgency when they just recently got their fix of Han Solo but featuring the genuine article.
That was something Nolan did perfectly at the end of Batman Begins. Gordon tells Batman about a criminal who leaves a clue at every crime, hands him a joker playing card in an evidence bag, Batman says “thanks, I’ll check it out”, roll the credits. Simple, but enough to leave the audience speculating and interested in how they’ll meet and interact.
I mean, that’s pretty much exactly what they did with Jabba.
Been reading Rinzler’s ESB book and one funny thing is that Harrison recognized and pointed out both continuity issues with the carbonite prop (wrong shirt and no shackles).
