DominicCobb

RogueLeader said:

ray_afraid said:

DominicCobb said:

creating a lightsaber is part of Jedi training (established in ROTJ)

I don’t remember that. Been awhile though.

I think Vader implies Luke constructing his own lightsaber was an indication that his training was complete.

Yep.

Your_friendly_Imperial said:

I do like Adywan, but most of the changes seem nitpicky.

That’s kinda the idea though. His goal is ‘the Special Editions as they should have been.’ If the SEs are supposed to update the film and fix errors, nitpicky changes seem appropriate.

Your_friendly_Imperial said:

DominicCobb said:
In the context of the whole saga, Hayden is Anakin. Sure, you can understand that Shaw is supposed to be Anakin, but the fact of the matter is he never once looked like that in any of these films. Not to mention, continuity-wise, Shaw is far too old to be playing Anakin (he still works as the unmasked Vader because his injuries, the suit, and the dark side have made him more decrepit). You can say that it doesn’t make sense that the ghost would look like he did decades before he died, but I’d argue it makes as much sense as an imagined fantasy version of older him.

Now, the other thing people complain about is that the Hayden footage was a costume test, and it doesn’t fit. This is true, and it’s a little janky, but it’s not that bad. Here’s the thing though. The people saying Shaw’s acting is not being respected? That’s silly. Shaw’s acting is intact, in his scene with Hamill. Shaw’s ‘acting’ in the ghost scene was literally just George telling him to smile at the camera. That’s it. He had no idea the context, what was going on, or why he was smiling. So I’d say that’s only marginally better than a costume test.

Ultimately what it comes down to for me is that Anakin/Vader shouldn’t end up with a ghost at all at the end of the movie, so both versions are stupid to me, personally.

He didn’t look that old as ghost. If we consider the Prequels Canon, Anakin should be in the late 40s/50s, not young like Hayden Christensen.

Sebastian Shaw was 77 at the time of filming, and, frankly, looks it. Anakin would only be about 45 according to the prequels. Shaw is way too old. Obviously Hayden is too young, but the idea is that he has reverted back to his pre-Vader self.

Broom Kid said:

dgraham414 said:

My dislike of one and apathy towards the other comes from the films internal consistency.
If you’re a first time viewer of ROTJ and it’s the first Star Wars movie you’ve seen ever then it’ll be really odd to see a brand new, never before seen, actor portraying… well you can’t even be sure if you have no prior knowledge to bass it off of. That is why the replacement of Sebastian Shaw is so much more reviled then the replacement of the Emperor.

This is another really good point - the change seems to depend on the idea that everyone who watches/rewatches the movies is going to watch them in episode order. But that’s not only very presumptious, but it doesn’t make sense for that to be the assumed default. Watching them in episode order basically breaks the whole saga and makes it duller and more confusing in general, because so much of what the PT even IS, is reverse-engineered from the OT. It’s constantly referencing stuff it assumes you know from having watched the OT already.

It’s a change made solely for the purpose of benefitting people who are watching it in a manner disadvantageous to getting the most out of the series. It ONLY works on rewatches, if it works at all - and it doesn’t.

Arguably if you’re going in release order it provides a decent bridge from OT back to PT. But if you’re watching in release order, you should be watching the OOT anyway, so it doesn’t matter.

DuracellEnergizer said:

Mocata said:

“This weapon is your life” is a horrendous piece of dialogue. Like really… can all Jedi even hold a weapon like that? Or even need to?

It could’ve been a brilliant piece of dialogue if Lucas had intended to show that the Jedi faith had deteriorated so far that they placed more trust in their weapons than in the Force. But as always, Lucas overlooked the potential in his own material and squandered it.

Nailed it there.

Yeah the 50 years old thing doesn’t really make sense. I get the ‘some species age differently’ thing, but if that baby is 50 then 900 would be a pretty young age for Yoda to die at.

The simplest explanation is the OT/PT divide. Many fans hate the PT and would rather pretend it not exist while watching the OT. Even though Ian looks as he does in ROTS, it can be ignored simply because he’s the right actor for the OT as well. But Hayden, for a lot of people he has no business being in the OT because he wasn’t in to begin with (not to mention that for many he represents the worst the PT has to offer).

I take a more reasoned approach. First of all, I almost exclusively watch the OOT, so who cares. But when we’re talking about an SE, one that is supposed to make the saga more coherent as a whole, I tend to think along these lines…

Ryan-SWI said:

Every time these discussions come up the most simple answer is always ignored; Hayden was put in because the audience can actually identify with Hayden’s Anakin. Shaw’s Anakin is never once seen at any point until the final minutes of Return of the Jedi and Hayden’s Anakin has two entire movies and almost five hours of screen time dedicated to him. If you put Return of the Jedi in the context of the six film saga then Shaw’s Anakin is visually out of place, it’s really that simple.

In the context of the whole saga, Hayden is Anakin. Sure, you can understand that Shaw is supposed to be Anakin, but the fact of the matter is he never once looked like that in any of these films. Not to mention, continuity-wise, Shaw is far too old to be playing Anakin (he still works as the unmasked Vader because his injuries, the suit, and the dark side have made him more decrepit). You can say that it doesn’t make sense that the ghost would look like he did decades before he died, but I’d argue it makes as much sense as an imagined fantasy version of older him.

Now, the other thing people complain about is that the Hayden footage was a costume test, and it doesn’t fit. This is true, and it’s a little janky, but it’s not that bad. Here’s the thing though. The people saying Shaw’s acting is not being respected? That’s silly. Shaw’s acting is intact, in his scene with Hamill. Shaw’s ‘acting’ in the ghost scene was literally just George telling him to smile at the camera. That’s it. He had no idea the context, what was going on, or why he was smiling. So I’d say that’s only marginally better than a costume test.

Ultimately what it comes down to for me is that Anakin/Vader shouldn’t end up with a ghost at all at the end of the movie, so both versions are stupid to me, personally.

Yeah I don’t really understand the point. Anyone watching knows it’s Star Wars. Why not just use the “long time ago” title card? I don’t get it.

I mean, a simple argument to be made is if creating a lightsaber is part of Jedi training (established in ROTJ), then it probably shouldn’t be an entirely technical process.

NeverarGreat said:

timdiggerm said:

ZkinandBonez said:

It’s a cool idea, but wouldn’t a more mystical reason make more sense in SW? E.g. the idea of bonding with a living crystal if you’re a Jedi, or “bleeding” it if you’re a Sith.

I don’t get why so many people don’t like the new lightsaber crystal lore. It’s such a Star Wars-y concept. They’ve even named them Kyber crystals.

because the inclination against the mystic side of Star Wars is strong among sci-fi nerds

the Emperor casually dismisses it as a ‘Jedi’s weapon’, implying that the Sith wouldn’t use lightsabers at all. Vader presumably only has one because he was formerly a Jedi.

And yet he does not have the same one he had when he was a Jedi. Worth noting as well that in an earlier draft of ROTJ the Emperor had a saber as well (and indeed Lucas gave the Sith their own sabers in the PT). I wouldn’t call the line dismissive, and I don’t believe it was written to be.

https://ifdb.fanedit.org/revenge-of-the-sith-by-dominiccobb/

Two main goals here, beyond just the general nips and tucks. ONE - Give the film more of an OT vibe with color correction, film grain, and new music throughout. TWO - Improve Anakin’s story. I find his fall to the dark side in the theatrical film to be rather sudden and unconvincing. So here my job was to sort of smooth out the kinks - trying to make Anakin more sure of himself and his allegiance to Palpatine before the turn, and then somewhat softening his words and actions after the turn. There’s a lot of subtle little changes and tweaks that went into this all across the film, but I do feel like the sum is that his story in this version is more believable.

My intention started off as taking Hal9000’s edit and mixing it with the structure of L8wrtr’s edit (where the opera/Plagueis scene comes early, to establish the dark temptation right off the bat). Eventually the project morphed. The structure has some similarities to L8’s, but is mostly my own design which I spent a lot of time considering. Many scenes are based off Hal’s, but just as many changes are my own. My most radical change is removing the Order 66 montage, and just focusing on the main characters. The whole film has a new scene-by-scene (shot-by-shot when needed) color correction, along with a light film grain applied. Many sequences have been rescored (and, as a consequence, re-SFXed) to add in more of a classic Star Wars feel throughout.

• Scene by scene color correction and film grain applied throughout.
• New crawl, and new main title recording (Williams performing on the “Skywalker Symphony” album… V1 is from “Hollywood Sound”).
• Trimmed superfluous and awkward dialogue in the opening battle (following Hal9000’s lead).
• The vulture droid only fires two missiles - no buzz droids at all. Anakin gets them to blow each other up, set to the Rebel fanfare cue that used to accompany R2 taking out the buzz droid.
• A classic track from the original film plays as the Jedi make their daring landing on the Invisible Hand and fight the battle droids (thanks to aalenfae for the idea).
• Removed Obi-Wan leaping from his cockpit, and his little jump during the fight with the battle droids.
• The Jedi do not encounter droidekas, and the elevator sequence is gone. None of the R2 stuff.
• Dooku doesn’t do a flip, and Palpatine doesn’t warn the Jedi that he’s a Sith lord.
• The music for Dooku’s arrival plays through the beginning of the duel.
• Palpatine does not make random sounds throughout the fight.
• Cut away as the railing starts excessively damage Obi-Wan.
• Anakin quickly decapitates Dooku right away without goading, but feels bad about it. He let his anger get the best of him, but while he notes that this wasn’t the Jedi way, Palpatine sets his mind at ease. Step one towards Vader.
• The ship going lopsided has been trimmed. To get rid of the silly ray shields, the battle droids capture Anakin and co. while they hang in the elevator shaft (Hal9000).
• The bridge fight and subsequent landing has been completed rescored (with SFX recreated where necessary) with a classic track from ROTJ.
• The whole scene of Grievous meeting the heroes has been tightening up and reorganized. Obi-wan interjects during, rather than after Anakin’s joke to Grievous, for a better comedic effect (thanks to NFBisms for the idea).
• Trims made throughout the bridge sequence, primarily removing battle droid silliness (following Hal9000 - more aggressively cut down in V1).
• Grievous says, “Time to abandon ship” as he breaks the hull and escapes (Hal9000).
• Slight trims during the crash landing on Coruscant (Hal9000).
• Added another classic track from the original film to score the moment after the happy landing (the transport flying through Coruscant and landing).
• Obi-wan interrupts Anakin numbering the times he’s saved him. Hopefully makes this kind of banter feel like a common occurrence (V2 only, from NFBisms).
• Jar Jar’s line has been cut.
• A slight sort of haze/gauze filter has been applied to the nighttime balcony scene at Padme’s apartment.
• Removed the ridiculous “So love has blinded you?” back and forth in the balcony scene (followed L8wrt’s cut here near exactly).
• End the scene where Anakin tells Padme about his nightmare on the more ominous note of “We don’t need Obi-wan’s help,” rather than talking about it being a “blessing.”
• The next scene is Anakin missing the briefing. He doesn’t ask if Palpatine getting more executive powers is a good thing. Anakin’s much surer of his opinions in this edit - the goal being, in every possible instance, when it comes down to Jedi vs. Palpatine he is firmly with Palpatine as a way to make his turn to Vader clearer (it’s a matter of allegiance).
• The next scene is Anakin summoned to the opera. Cut out mentions of Grievous and Anakin spying on Palpatine to fit this placement. The idea here is that right away Anakin is given a solution to the problem of his nightmares. It is of course not within the bounds of the Jedi, but everything that Anakin experiences in regard to the Jedi from them on only goes to make this option seem more viable. When we finally hear Anakin say “I’ve found a way to save you from my nightmares,” since it’s been so long before he told Padme that there’s such an option, we know that he’s fully considered the implications of that solution and going to go with it anyway (restructure inspired by L8wrtr).
• Palpatine doesn’t mention midichlorians (V1 only).
• To sell this even more, after Palpatine’s line “Not from a Jedi” in the opera, we hard cut to the temple, where Yoda tells Anakin to, essentially, get over it.
• Following Yoda’s indirect mention of Padme, the scene is the first “seeds of Rebellion” scene in Bail’s apartment, cutting the reference to Palpatine having control of the Jedi council (which hasn’t happened yet). It’s criminal how little Padme has to do in this film. This scene doesn’t accomplish much, but it does alleviate that to some extent. Placed here mostly to make sure it doesn’t feel too jumpy, going from Anakin in one place to another to another.
• Next is finally the scene in Palpatine’s office where he appoints Anakin to the council. Reinserted a couple deleted lines where Palpatine criticizes how the Jedi treat Anakin. Palpatine: “They see you as a threat to their power.” Anakin: “I’ve sensed that.” To achieve Anakin’s line, I’ve overlayed his mouth from the deleted scene over the finished shot from the film (it’s the same take, they just digitally closed his mouth in the final version). This exchange helps to show Anakin has distrusted the Jedi to some extent since before this film.
• Anakin doesn’t randomly interrupt Palpatine to announce he doesn’t know what he’s about to say (Hal9000).
• Before the Jedi council meeting, inserted the “plot to destroy the Jedi” scene, but removed redundant lines that also feature in the later scene in the Jedi war room.
• Trimmed a bit in Anakin’s appointment to the council. Anakin does not say he understands that this move by Palpatine is “disturbing” (he doesn’t). His outburst is barely that, which makes Mace’s “Take a seat” feel more judgmental, and Anakin more reasonable.
• Trimmed Anakin’s pauses in his argument with Obi-wan to once again make him more sure of his stance in all this.
• Anakin even interrupts Obi-wan at one point during their debate (V2 only, inspired by NFBisms).
• Added a menacing underscore to the sunset scene at Padme’s apartment to highlight the tension between her and Anakin.
• Chewbacca is deleted or replaced in almost all of his shots (but for fun still gets a blink and you miss it appearance in an establishing shot). Thanks to poppasketti for the excellent visual effects and Hal9000 for the audio (V2 only).
• Yoda doesn’t explain that they want someone with more experience to go to Utapau. So it seems like, to Anakin, the only reason they don’t let Anakin go is because Palpatine suggested it (Hal9000).
• Added a wistful rendition of the Force theme (from the extended ROTS end credits suite) to score Anakin and Obi-wan’s final scene as friends (credit to aalenfae for the idea).
• After Obi-wan jumps to hyperspace, transition to the deleted scene of the delegation speaking with Palpatine in his office.
• Transition from there to the next nightmare, hopefully highlighting the doubt about Padme that Palpatine is sowing but following it up with Obi-wan appearing in Anakin’s nightmare and him asking about if he came by.
• Cut extraneous shot of CG gas attendants on Utapau.
• Cut out Grievous saying that a volcanic planet is safe (Hal9000).
• Cut out a redundant line (utilized earlier from a deleted scene) in the scene where Anakin informs Palpatine that Obi-wan has engaged Grievous.
• Cut out Anakin saying he’d like to kill Palpatine (he shouldn’t). Instead, he just says he’s going to do what he’s supposed to (turn him over to the council).
• When we go back to Utapau, we see the ongoing battle that originally played before Cody was given Order 66. Fits better here, before Obi-wan kills Grievous.
• No overbearing Palpatine’s voiceover as Anakin waits in the council chambers (Hal9000).
• Streamlined dialogue as Windu and his gang confront Palpatine (Hal9000).
• Trimmed the lightsaber fight, including and especially Palpatine’s spinning.
• Palpatine doesn’t use Force lightning until Anakin has cut off Mace’s arm, which helps give Anakin the appearance that Palpatine is going to be helplessly executed, and also masks the stupid “scarring” by transitioning to wrinkly face using flickering lights once he finally attacks Mace (a popular idea, originated by kerr).
• Softened the blow of Anakin’s heel turn by removing him referring to Palpatine as “master” at all after his dubbing (V2 only). Palpatine doesn’t specifically call out Obi-wan as an enemy (a bridge to be crossed later). When Palpatine says the Jedi are to be destroyed, Anakin doesn’t robotically say he understands, he just silently accepts (V2 only).
• Anakin’s march on the temple is rescored with a classic Imperial march cue from TESB.
• Easily the most radical cut in this whole edit, when Palpatine executes Order 66, we don’t see it enacted throughout the galaxy - only on the planets with the characters we really know (Utapau, Kashyyyk, and Coruscant). This sequence is rescored with a rendition of the Emperor’s theme from ROTJ.
• Anakin doesn’t kill any younglings, we only see him look upon the massacre in the temple.
• Padme doesn’t say “Oh Anakin!” when they’re talking about the Jedi “revolt.” Just sounds a bit pathetic and out of character (V2 only).
• The Imperial theme from the original film plays while Obi-wan is avoiding clones on Utapau, courtesy of the Rogue One soundtrack.
• Removed Yoda’s interactions with the Wookiees after Order 66.
• The classic “Rebel Blockade Runner” cue from the original film plays when we see Obi-wan board said Rebel blockade runner (rather than the altogether unfitting heroic cue played in the theatrical version).
• Bail doesn’t respond to Mas Amedda, and the video of Mas Amedda has a VHS effect to make it look more similar to the video chat screens from the OT.
• Removed Obi-Wan and Yoda’s fight to enter the Temple in V1 only. In V2, we see them fight the clones, but we do not see Yoda perform any flips.
• Added the cue from the original film that plays when Ben tells Luke about Vader to the scene where Obi-wan learns about Vader.
• Cut out Obi-wan and Yoda talking about killing the Emperor, because Yoda doesn’t fight him in this edit (Hal9000).
• Cut out Obi-wan telling Padme about killing younglings, for at least three different reasons (Hal9000).
• Cut Obi-wan entering the closet on Padme’s ship, so if you blink and miss him it’s a nice surprise when he shows up later (Hal9000).
• Once again added the original Imperial theme from the Rogue One soundtrack, this time to the moment where Palpatine’s hologram tells Anakin he’s brought “peace” to the galaxy.
• Padme doesn’t mention younglings to Anakin, naturally.
• No showdown between Yoda and Palpatine whatsoever. It’s the Mustafar duel all the way (more or less followed Hal9000 here).
• Cut out Obi-wan dealing in absolutes.
• Cut out Anakin and Obi-wan wrestling on the conference table, because it’s silly and it doesn’t fit.
• No “It’s over Anakin,” no “high ground.” Just a swift de-limbing (Hal9000).
• Removed Obi-Wan referencing the chosen one prophecy while Anakin roasts (V1 only).
• Qui-Gon tells Yoda to go to Dagobah (V1 only).
• No reference to Padme losing the will to live. Any edit that includes this line should be ejected into space.
• Vader’s “No” replaced with the more visceral, guttural yell of the Japanese dub (Hal9000).
• A final cue of the original Imperial theme to accompany our first look at an Imperial star destroyer.

Runtime: 120 min

Special thanks to the various edits I’ve stolen from, by editors such as Hal9000, L8wrtr, aalenfae, NFBisms, kerr, seciors, and all the others I’m forgetting or don’t know who have made their impression on the lineage of ROTS edits. Those who have provided materials that I used, such as kk650, bryantmh, and brash_stryker and Bobson Dugnutt’s SFX archives. And of course Collipso who has been an invaluable sounding board with which to brainstorm about the edit, and who has always been available to give excellent feedback.

The V2 is the current and preferred cut and is available as a 1080p MP4. The V1 is also still available as a 1080p MP4.

Opening 6 Minutes
https://vimeo.com/705233994

Invisible Hand Fight and Landing Rescored
https://vimeo.com/705250764

Order 66 Recut and Rescored
https://vimeo.com/705447908

Yeah now that I’m starting to understand the vibe of the show I’m pretty into it. There’s not much in the way of story but that’s not a bad thing. This was a very fun, half hour western adventure. And it still looks/sounds great.

ZkinandBonez said:

It’s a cool idea, but wouldn’t a more mystical reason make more sense in SW? E.g. the idea of bonding with a living crystal if you’re a Jedi, or “bleeding” it if you’re a Sith.

I don’t get why so many people don’t like the new lightsaber crystal lore. It’s such a Star Wars-y concept. They’ve even named them Kyber crystals.

This is sort of where I’m at.

If anything I’m against any explanation of lightsaber color.

I can’t really complain about the desaturated look, if I want to watch these versions I can just boost the color on my TV settings until it’s to my liking. But, realistically, I probably won’t be watching these versions at all. Hopefully they’ll be a useful source (once on disc) for Harmy and whoever else.

Taking a quick look though, the films look to be in pretty good shape, though, while the colors are inoffensive, the desaturated/washed out look is not one I’m a fan of.

DominicCobb said:

There are extras? That’s very interesting. Only deleted scenes? Anything else? Only the 2011 deleted scenes? How does the quality compare? Etc.

I mean, I think I’ll probably sign up for D+ later tonight but if someone wants to look in the meantime…

Alright so… extras are deleted scenes and a single trailer for each. The scenes for the PT are a completely random assortment of ones from the BD and DVD, just a handful for each. Quality is the same (probably worse).

There are extras? That’s very interesting. Only deleted scenes? Anything else? Only the 2011 deleted scenes? How does the quality compare? Etc.

I mean, I think I’ll probably sign up for D+ later tonight but if someone wants to look in the meantime…

How are the Laserdisc OT commentaries? Who’s on them?

There is a TLJ specific thread if you’re looking for that.

Your_friendly_Imperial said:

DominicCobb said:

Not even Looper?

And now he attacks the fandom for not liking his movie.

Plainly not true.

ChainsawAsh said:

If you don’t think 1/3 of the sequel trilogy can be improved in any way, why are you in a thread dedicated to thinking up ideas to improve it in future fan edits?

The same could be said about people who think AOTC is the absolute worst and still edit the Prequels.
In my opinion, TFA was only half-bad, Palpatine’s return and Lucas involvement in Rise of the Skywalker intrigues me.

People who think AOTC is the worst but edit it anyway don’t find it “irredeemable.” There’s a difference.

TavorX said:

DominicCobb said:

I don’t know how anyone could rank the Mandalorian after only one episode.

Same, like I get a lot are excited (and dissatisfied), but it’s just one episode. Not only are there more episodes coming out, but some of those episodes will be directed by different directors which I’m sure will greatly impact how it unfolds; good or bad, to be determined.

Not just that it’s the first episode of many more, but it is also merely the first ‘chapter’ of an 8 chapter story. We don’t know yet how it will unfold, and one’s opinion on the quality could change greatly once they see the full picture.

Broom Kid said:

DominicCobb said:

Has anyone checked against the stills pulled from the Reliance reel that started this thread so many years ago? I know the obvious assumption is that it’s their work, but it might be worth confirming.

I believe Pablo confirmed this on twitter? There was only one 4K restoration being done when Lucas still owned Lucasfilm and it was by Reliance. The fact he was able to pinpoint it as “The 4K one” solely by hearing about MacLunkey basically eliminates any other option.

Yeah, I know, it all lines up. I just mean, if we’re doing still comparisons, might as well do the final confirmation.

Anyone familiar with the ‘Faces’ VHS set will remember Leonard Maltin’s interviews with George Lucas. Well, the Star Wars YT channel has collected them along with a number of other Lucas interviews in a playlist here (including some that I assume are from the 93 laserdisc boxset):

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL148kCvXk8pAOQYVpHJSwm7yCONUVE_JY

ZkinandBonez said:

DominicCobb said:

ZkinandBonez said:

How Star Wars was saved in the edit:
https://youtu.be/zEHRNS-Scrs - from the RocketJump Film School YouTube channel (2017 video essay - 18 minutes).

“A video essay exploring how Star Wars’ editors recut and rearranged Star Wars: A New Hope to create the cinematic classic it became”

Written by David Welch.
Narrated and edited by Joey Scoma.

Not to nitpick, but I’d think video essays might be a different category from documentaries? Your thread of course.

The thread title also includes “making ofs” and “promos”, and there’s been interviews added as well. Plus, I only wrote “video essay” because that’s what they called it. It’s basically a short documentary, and a really interesting one at that, so I felt it was worth sharing here.

As I said I will of course defer to you. I haven’t seen the video in question but I tend to think of a ‘video essay’ as an analysis of a work, rather than a behind the scenes documentary. But maybe I should watch the video before I critique.

Not even Looper?

m_s0 said:

Well, since I seem to disagree with you even on what’s being discussed here perhaps best to leave it at that 😃

Sounds like a deal.

I will say to your point, regardless I think Fraser is a great DP and even if Filoni’s direction wasn’t mind blowing, I definitely wouldn’t call it 'cheap.’

Of course it’ll still be interesting to see not just his next episode but the episodes from the other directors as well.