Is there a repository somewhere of Lego Force Awakens voice lines? Could be useful for not just Kylo, but Rey and Leia (and I guess everyone really).
Luke calls her Rey Palpatine, so that would have to be cut around.
True, ugh. Whatever, don’t think you lose anything there.
Instead of a Rey Palpatine story, the narrative could be changed to where Palpatine shows Kylo a vision of Rey’s future, and it is her as Sith Empress. Rey sees it too, which is why it scares her. Maybe he says he saw a vision of her sitting on a throne next to him. Which causes Rey to call him a liar and such. You could replace the visions of the past with visions of the future.
It’s funny I’ve been on a similar train of thought and came here to post as much. Palpatine had a vision that Rey would usurp him, which is why he had her parents killed. Kylo has the vision, and wants it to become a reality so they can join forces and defeat Palpatine, so he goads her into fighting and using the dark side. He tells her about the vision, which is what rattles her (because it squares with her growing potential for darkness).
I feel like we need to see the vision though, right? ROTS style? Don’t know how that’s accomplished (honestly fingers crossed that just happens to be something they shot and made a deleted scene of). I don’t think the random flashes that they currently have at the beginning does the job very well. It’s almost impossible to tell what the point they’re trying to make is. Maybe the worst case solution is just have Kylo clearly see Dark Rey at the beginning, then after Kylo does his new reveal, Rey sees a comprehensible flash of Dark Rey, then again she sees her and fights her on the DSII?
This is my train of thought. Palpatine could reveal to Kylo Ren that he made Snoke, AND he made Vader, revealing he created Anakin and in effect making Kylo his heir. But, he wants Kylo to kill Rey because he has seen a vision where she actually destroys him. Kylo has other plans, and when Palpatine senses that Leia has turned Ben’s heart, he decides to try and use Rey as his new vessel.
I think the creating Anakin stuff is an added complication, honestly. It’s going to be hard enough to do the rest. But I do like the idea. Part of what’s stupid about Rey overcoming being a Palpatine is that that’s already what Ben’s story is about, overcoming the darkness of his lineage or giving into it. So yeah it’d have made more sense to make Ben essentially the Palpatine to double down on that. But whatever, like I said it’d be tough to do.
The problem is though (and naturally it’s a problem with the film as is), what about when Rey actually gets to Palpatine? He goes from wanting her dead to wanting her to kill him?
This is pushing it but it’d be cool if in the final showdown between Rey and Palpatine, she doesn’t just say “I’m all the Jedi” (which is lame), she says something like she is the light and the dark.
Also this is crazy (impossible?) but I wish Rey had a black outfit for the entire film until the white for the final scene. And I wish Ben had white in the climax.
For the final sequence, by the way, where we want everybody to be prepared to battle again, what if we have relevant soundbites from the rest of the saga? Like Maz’s “We must face them, fight them,” Holdo’s “In every corner of the galaxy the downtrodden and oppressed know our symbol,” etc. that kind of thing. There’s not a lot of speechifying in these movies so it wouldn’t be terribly easy but it’s an idea.
Vader’s redemption is pretty bad honestly and comes out of nowhere. Kylo’s redemption has at least been 3 whole movies in the making. The specific moment with Leia is not handled very well but otherwise this is definitely something they’ve improved upon (though there isn’t anything that touches the moment when Vader turns).
The problem for me is, that TLJ to a large degree was about Kylo’s potential redemption, and in the end he chose to become the Supreme Leader. For me TROS didn’t provide a compelling reason to backtrack on that significant development of his character, and it thus feels unearned for me, despite Adam Driver’s good acting. At the end of TLJ Kylo Ren becomes the Emperor, while in TROS he is quite clumsily forced into the Darth Vader role again right down to the mask. For me TESB was always in part about Vader obsessively searching for his son, indicating that his priorities had shifted. Having failed to convert his son, Vader sort of came across as a broken man in ROTJ, resigned to his fate to be replaced by his son (it is too late for me son). Luke gave him an alternative path, that he only took when he was forced to choose between serving a master, who would replace him, or his son.
I feel urge to to argue TLJ with you for the nth time, I’ll just say that’s not my read of him in the film.
ROTJ is, in my mind, the same sort of character fumble for Vader as TROS is for Kylo in the first half.
I almost wonder if you could go in the opposite direction and introduce the Sith fleet earlier. That’s what destroys the Republic. That’s what looms over the galaxy throughout the trilogy and why so few are prepared to join the Resistance.
TROS seemed to be setting up the First Order vs. the Final Order, but nothing came of it, so why make them two different things? Fuck it, have Palpatine’s broadcast during the destruction of the Republic. Don’t know how the hell you proceed from there but it’s an idea.
Something just occurred to me. When Kylo reveals the “truth,” he’s in the mask. Similarly, we can hardly see Palpatine’s mouth when he talks. Does Rey even say out loud that she’s a Palpatine? I don’t remember. Part of me wonders if this was something added in post production, and if they actually gave Kylo the mask back because they knew that part of the script was going to keep getting changed.
Anyway, since he’s in the mask, that’d make changing his dialogue a bit easier. But what would he say instead? And what would we have to work with (Lego TFA??)? Truthfully that whole section of the film is a mess, the Palpatine/Kylo/Rey stuff. Doesn’t make a lick of sense. But I’d hate to lose their Force talks, and especially their Force duel which is one of the coolest things in the film (brief as it is).
The question ultimately being, might it actually be possible to remove Rey Palpatine? Keep her a nobody, make it so that Palpatine simply saw Rey’s future/sensed her power/whatever? That’d be the only way I think to preserve the narrative (of course it’ll still suck to some extent because even though she’ll be a nobody she won’t be random, you know?). I fear what it might do to her character in this film a bit (what makes the dark side temptation so fearful?) but it’s not like her character is coherent in this anyway.
Vader’s redemption is pretty bad honestly and comes out of nowhere. Kylo’s redemption has at least been 3 whole movies in the making. The specific moment with Leia is not handled very well but otherwise this is definitely something they’ve improved upon (though there isn’t anything that touches the moment when Vader turns).
You must have a very liberal definition of shaky cam then. Do you think there’s any shaky cam in these scenes?
https://youtu.be/wtoHjGWc2s8?t=200
https://youtu.be/T_OSeRxhGOY?t=62Yes the Tie Fighter attack has more, but they both have it. I’d say both are good examples of acceptable levels, there’s lots of shots in the Tie fighter scene where the camera is completely stationary to counter-balance that effect, whereas JJ barely ever allows the camera to be stationary.
I just think you fundamentally have a different definition of the term. If you asked me I would say there’s only a couple shots that are “shaky,” and they’re in the cell block hallway.
I’m already anticipating a repeat of the reaction to the OT - 1 is the audience favorite, 2 is the fan favorite, and 3 is mostly regarded as the least favorite)
Many will disagree but I think we’re seeing this prediction coming true.
I guess Marey Suewalker isn’t such a hard pill to swallow so long as enough stylish nothingness is ejaculated everywhere.
Humanity still has a long way to go.
Duracell, you missed it, but they explained why she was a level 50 force user in this one (no spoilers though), so she’s not a Mary Sue anymore and the movie is good.
ROTJ is an interesting comparison because both films fucked up in similar ways, and some ways TROS legitimately improved upon what ROTJ was trying to do. Ultimately though I give the edge to ROTJ just because it’s more coherent and nostalgia I guess.
I mentioned that one before. It’s one of the only moments in the entire film when the camera does that. The fact that that’s your only example does not help your case.
It’s not the camera at all, it’s intentional. This is what it would look like if stabilised:
I honestly have no idea what you’re trying to say.
No, the camera is shaking in that scene because it is a sort of ‘action’ scene, where they’re trying to repair the Falcon before the toxic fumes kill them. It’s one of only two dialogue scenes in the entire film with “shaky cam.”
There’s shaky cam when Finn takes off his helmet, basically any shot that has an extreme-close up like that has some level of it or some other annoying camera technique (lots of zooming, lots of focus-shifting), when they get to the bar that entire scene is filmed like it’s hand-held.
Double checked the scene to make sure I’m not crazy, and, yep, sure enough, zero shaky cam in that scene. Once again I have to ask if you even know what the term means.
The bar scene is not handheld. It is mostly steadicam. These are different terms that have different meanings.
And the action scenes don’t have shaky cam either.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sarFZJl3h0
There’s what? Two, three shots total in this scene that if you squint you could call almost shaky cam? And I just picked a random scene.
Much of that shot and for that matter the movie feels like it’s framed for 1.85:1 not Scope (2.35:1) - i.e. the camera feels like it’s too close.
What does that have to do with shaky cam?
Honestly there’s a ton of shaky-cam in that scene, I don’t know how you could possibly count two or three shots only. It’s not just shaky-cam, it’s a combination of things.
You must have a very liberal definition of shaky cam then. Do you think there’s any shaky cam in these scenes?
https://youtu.be/wtoHjGWc2s8?t=200
https://youtu.be/T_OSeRxhGOY?t=62
Hilarious honestly that you’re still holding onto this. Anyway, I’ve said what I’ve said about the “shaky cam.” It’s practically nonexistent in his Star Wars films. Complain away about the other tenets of his style.
There is no reason to be disrespectful. Are you saying you don’t think this shot is shaky-cam?
I mentioned that one before. It’s one of the only moments in the entire film when the camera does that. The fact that that’s your only example does not help your case.
There’s a reason why I believe JJ’s shaking the camera like that in non-action shots, and that’s to make the shaky-cam less jarring when we come to the actual action sequences.
No, the camera is shaking in that scene because it is a sort of ‘action’ scene, where they’re trying to repair the Falcon before the toxic fumes kill them. It’s one of only two dialogue scenes in the entire film with “shaky cam.”
And the action scenes don’t have shaky cam either.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sarFZJl3h0
There’s what? Two, three shots total in this scene that if you squint you could call almost shaky cam? And I just picked a random scene.
Hilarious honestly that you’re still holding onto this. Anyway, I’ve said what I’ve said about the “shaky cam.” It’s practically nonexistent in his Star Wars films. Complain away about the other tenets of his style.
The “Jar Jar” Abrams shtick is almost as annoying as it is immature. Almost.
I don’t think it’s JJ’s style, but I guess we can hope.
I might be wrong, but afaik shakycam isn’t actually handheld but rather a steadicam adjusted to get a specific type of shakiness. Since pure handheld footage would have much more high frequency shaking (hand tremor and such) that isn’t the same as the kind of “head moves around” harmonious shaking that you want for a shaky cam scene.
Though it probably depends from project to project.
Professional handheld rigs have a harness that bears resemblance to a steadicam rig, sure (which will making the shaking minimal). And yeah, you could use a steadicam for shaky cam if you wanted, but for the most part that’ll defeat the purpose, and it’s more likely they’d actually go handheld. The degree of shaking is an artistic choice. On a longer lens, you’ll get more shaking I guess, but really when you see something like the Bourne movies, that’s the handheld operator doing some shaking in addition to the natural shake (pure handheld would tend to be less shaky, honestly). JJ has used shaky cam style shooting before, but not on either of his Star Wars films. Practically every shot is either on sticks, a dolly, steadicam, or a crane/jib (as far as I could tell anyway). He’s very specifically gone for an approach with a lot of movement, yes, but specifically a lot of smooth movement.
I’m sorry to say you just plain don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s not a matter of noticing it or not. Show me a shot and I can tell you if it’s on sticks, a dolly, a crane, or handheld. Shaky cam is handheld photography, plain and simple. That’s just what it is. And I’ve seen TFA enough to know that there’s literally only two shots in the movie with handheld photography, when they’re in the basement of Maz’s castle during the FO attack. There’s also a scene on the Falcon with simulated handheld, but you can tell it’s still on sticks. There’s nothing else in the film that’s “shaky” (besides arguably a couple effects shots). That’s it.
I didn’t say you didn’t or that it doesn’t happen, I was meaning in general, for the most part, from my own experience talking to people. I apologize if it came across neglectful or naive, just sharing my thoughts and can’t always put it into words correctly.
Fair enough, and I understand the sentiment. Just saying not everything is confirmation bias, and the fact that I saw two screenings the same night (at the same theater) and the reactions were wholly different in both sort of disproves what you’re saying, to some extent.
I’ve never been in a theater for a Star Wars movie where anybody groaned or laughed at the movie instead of with the movie. There’s always clapping and cheering. Anybody who’s ever left the theater has always come back hurrying. I think most people in an area just coincidentally feel the same way cause people that dislike a movie tend to be in a theater where everybody mocks it or leaves, whereas I tend to have a more positive outlook and only experience good audience reactions.
Buddy, my post literally right above yours says I experienced two completely different audience reactions.
My second showing everyone laughed. First showing there was cheers.
Is there anyway we can fit in the message that the fight against evil will always continue or something like that? This is what I’m thinking. Before Palpatine dies we once again hear his line “I’ve been killed before,” or whatever it was. But there has to be some sort of response from Rey along the lines of “we’ll always be there.” Then you cut out the shots of all the star destroyers blowing up around the galaxy. What I’d really want to is instead of a hug party, to have a scene where they come back hugging, get a transmission about the next mission to stop the FO, and then head off. Then the scene with Rey on Tatooine. Don’t know how to do any of this.
Interesting ideas. I think we’d have to see what Daisy Ridley lines we’d have available. I could see something like
Emperor: I’ve been killed before.
Rey: I’ll be waiting. (From, “I know all about waiting.”)
To imply the fighting will continue, I could picture a few things. Maybe you could create new space scenes with some decent cg ship models. I could imagine a shot that mirrors ANH, where a Star Destroyer is being chased by dozens of Resistance ships. You could insert Poe into this scene somehow, either in an X-Wing or on the bridge of a cruiser. In general you could expand this idea and have different types of ship/space sequences that could help imply that idea.
You would have to film new material, but I would still love to see something with Finn that would imply something with Stormtroopers defecting or going on a mission to liberate children from the First Order.
I like the idea of going full circle with the ANH opening (though might be a bit much with the final’s scene full circle nature).
But damn, imagine how powerful the final moments could have been if it was a montage of people preparing for battle across the galaxy, rather than just a repeat of ROTJ? Or at least something along those lines.
RT (and really the internet in general) has made everything into a binary “good or bad” these days, no in between exists anymore. It sucks, but what can you do.
I’ll be honest, I’ve seen it twice already. Second showing, half the theater either groaned, laughed, or said “what?” when Rey was revealed to be a Palpatine.
I see the supposed rejection of ROTJ’s ‘happily ever after’ as more of a reaction to ROTJ than anything else. People seem to have forgotten what a disappointment that film was, not just to many fans but to folks who were involved in the films. I’m pretty sure that’s why the comics had Luke turn to the Dark Side in the 90s, or why we have a ‘disillusioned Luke in exile’ in TFA with Han having his long overdue death scene. Not everyone left the 1983 Ewok party feeling satisfied. I’m more than happy to see ROTJ as ‘a’ victory and not necessarily ‘the’ victory.
I kinda get what you mean, especially when you consider that it wasn’t until the PT’s ‘chosen one bringing balance to the force’ decontextualization that ROTJ really became the final word in a grand saga. The OT, taken on its on, it’s not unreasonable that there’d be something after.
If ROTJ was happily ever after, the ST is supposed to be what happens after happily ever after, when reality sets in. But instead TROS is just ‘forget that happily ever after, this is the real happily ever after.’ Which is lazy.