DominicCobb

pleasehello said:

Okay, I’ll ask again since my post was deleted.

Have you considered removing the idea that Luke and Leia already knew that Rey was a Palpatine? That was one of the dumber retcons for me and causes some logic issues with the last film.

I’d be in favor of removing this too, but, devil’s advocate here, it doesn’t necessarily create any issues with the last film. If Luke cut himself off from the Force, he wouldn’t know Rey was a Palpatine until he reconnected.

RogueLeader said:

DominicCobb said:

The more I think of it the more I like the idea of bringing Palpatine back in some way (though not this way). If the ST is all about legacy, and the OT heroes all find the strength and confidence in their proteges to move on knowing the galaxy is in good hands, wouldn’t it be interesting if the antagonist is an old villain who absolutely refuses to move on in any way?

I think a simple way to have gone about this would’ve been what Matt Smith’s rumored role was to be, to have the spirit of Palpatine possess a host body, rather than have his literal body still be around. To be fair, it almost seems like his spirit is attached to his dead corpse, the white eyes make me thing that’s the idea, but it still a stretch to think his body remained in tact enough to extract from the ruins of the Death Star.

Something I honestly liked from Trevorrow’s script was Hux collecting lightsabers and other Jedi/Sith relics. I could see how his rivalry with Kylo Ren makes him wish he had that power to oppose him. You could’ve tied both things together by having Palpatine’s spirit calling out to Hux (maybe from Vader’s helmet aboard the Finalizer), and offer Hux unlimited power in return for being his host. It just ties into their rivalry well and after how much Hux was thrown around in TLJ, I could see him selling his soul to try and overcome Ren. And between them and the final confrontation, we could see Hux’s body become more like Sidious’ as the dark side quickly corrupts him, essentially destroying his body, and then Palpatine could throw him away and jump into a more suitable host.

That’s an interesting idea with Hux. Personally I’m not sure how I feel about Trevorrow making Hux a force wannabe. Personally I like the idea of Hux as the symbol of the First Order as an institution and would personally keep him separate from the force stuff and have his story be more about the First Order’s fascism and kidnapping kids and all that.

On the force side, I think there’s a real missed opportunity with the Knights of Ren. I would have gone more the Trevorrow route there and made them the big antagonists, with a single figurehead. They were mostly a blank slate that they could have done anything with, which some people would say is not a great place for the final antagonist to be unestablished, but if you really went all in on making them be the dark side of Kylo Ren made manifest - a foil for his struggle - and had them be Luke’s other students, I think it’d totally work. Ultimately they should have formed Kylo’s main ideological conflict. At the end of TLJ, he’s gone full “kill the past” mode. But prior, he was worshipping Vader. If you made the Knights essentially Sith worshippers who want to restore that former power while Kylo wants to move forward and make something new, you’d have an interesting conflict right off the bat (and a place for the Knights to end up siding with Hux who wants to restore the Empire). Then you could work in Palpatine by having the Knights want to resurrect Palpatine and then one of them becoming his host.

Now one thing you bring up which is an interesting idea, is not actually seeing Palpatine’s old body. On the one hand, this would have felt somewhat fake and disappointing (‘trust us Palpatine’s spirit is definitely in this guy’s body’), but what if like you said, when his spirit takes over somebody’s body, their image becomes corrupted as well, and they don the exact facial melted makeup that McDiarmid did (and his voice too)? That’d suggest that the melted look really is Sidious’s true visage, and perhaps even that Palpatine was a separate person and merely a host for the dark lord as well.

StarkillerAG said:

DominicCobb said:

People would likely salivate over the return to Mustafar

In name only. I’m still pissed about that.

You missed my point. The concept art suggests a return to Mustafar that fans would salivate over, but the final execution is such that who cares. This could easily have been the case with some of the Trevorrow concept art.

The least he could have done was add Vader’s castle covered in vines or something, but JJ decided to remove all recognizable elements of Mustafar because he hates the prequels with every fiber of his being.

I mean that’s stupid. There’s nothing to suggest that JJ feels that way (in fact the are a number of prequel references in the film). More importantly, it’s just a weird, complicated situation. The reason they even have the scene on Mustafar is because of Vader’s castle, which obviously wasn’t even in the prequels. And it seems the castle was, in fact, in the film, but cut late in the game. Why everything looks so different it’s hard to even say with so little information. What came first, the shooting location, then they decided it’d be Mustafar? Totally possible.

I’ve heard the 50 completed scripts thing too. If it’s true, it’s crazy it never got made, though I guess that’s how Lucas rolled. You almost have to think it’s a shame too? Unless it sucked of course. I wonder if they’d ever consider reviving the concept for D+, but I doubt it.

Fuck, that looks cool.

Still, we have to understand that films basically never live up to their concept art, which is always pie-in-the-sky sort of stuff. And this is a script that, if it was ever actually made, would have needed a lot of compression and downsizing.

The other thing to think about, in fairness to TROS, is what would we have thought if Trevorrow’s movie got made and then JJ’s leaked concepts came out? People would likely salivate over the return to Mustafar, the Sith world of Exegol, the Force bond duel, the Death Star ruins, etc. It all comes down to how it’s executed.

Considering how many groupies came to his concert at the end of TROS, I doubt he lacked for willing participants. Honestly that’s the part of it that bothers me the least, since they just gloss over it. But there’s definitely something to be said for Palpatine being death itself, with the inability to conceive life in any way.

The more I think of it the more I like the idea of bringing Palpatine back in some way (though not this way). If the ST is all about legacy, and the OT heroes all find the strength and confidence in their proteges to move on knowing the galaxy is in good hands, wouldn’t it be interesting if the antagonist is an old villain who absolutely refuses to move on in any way?

Back to Palpatine in love, wasn’t that supposed to be one of the scripts for George’s never produced SW Underworld TV show?

pleasehello said:

StarkillerAG said:

I disagree with that article completely. Rey Palpatine wasn’t done for any storytelling reason, it was just done to please people who were pissed that Rey was a nobody in TLJ.

It’s possible that it was initially conceived as a reaction to fan outrage (though I doubt it), but it absolutely serves a storytelling function. Destiny is not determined by lineage or the sins of the father. That’s Rey’s story (such as it is) and maybe the only thematic material we get in the whole movie. It’s not strong, but it’s there.

And I really don’t like Rey taking the Skywalker name without permission, just because some ghosts smiled at her. If Jeff Bezos smiled at me, would that mean I’m a billionaire? Rey’s arc in TROS makes no sense, and it devalues TLJ’s message that anyone can be a hero. It’s one of those moments that was clearly designed to be a dig at TLJ, like “Go away, Rose!” and “A Jedi’s weapon deserves more respect.”

Luke already passed the mantle to her in TLJ. Leia clearly has a maternal relationship with her in this movie, so it’s more than just smiling ghosts. Her choosing the name Skywalker is symbolic, it implies that she will continue the Skywalker legacy and reinforces the only theme in the movie of choosing your own path and not letting lineage define you.

Rey being a Palpatine is probably a regression, but her accepting the Skywalker name I think was inevitable and probably would have happened either way.

Yeah that’s sort of how I feel. Rey Palpatine is sort of the dumbed-down version of Rey’s preexisting trajectory - forging her own destiny without her bloodline defining her. The Skywalker thing definitely works, because the ultimate message of the film is “anyone can be a Skywalker/hero.” Which is nice, but of course, again it is a dumbed-down version of “anyone can have the Force.” Unfortunately that’s the aspect of Rey Nobody that’s glossed over in TROS. They had a chance to save themselves a bit with Finn’s storyline but that’s too much of a mess to have any meaning behind it.

Tobar said:

DominicCobb said:

Don’t really want to show everyone getting murdered on a kids show

Cough

Not really the same thing. But yes, this is probably the least pressing of the reasons why not.

OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

Interesting. I do remember hearing some speculation (or maybe it was based on something Filoni or someone else said) that we would see the Jedi purge to some extent. Considering that scene comes right before Order 66, I imagine this will probably end up being true. But to what extent? If I had to guess I’d say we’ll see Captain Rex’s perspective? Don’t really want to show everyone getting murdered on a kids show (plus we’ve seen it in the film anyway), and Rex will show a different side of the event that will lead into Rebels. Well, I guess we’ll have to see Ahsoka’s perspective as well.

I will say, if they’re going right up and into ROTS, that’ll make the fact that they just sort of dropped into the Clone Wars halfway between AOTC and ROTS even weirder.

They kinda had to - Anakin was still an apprentice in AOTC, so it doesn’t make much sense for him to suddenly get a padawan (they wanted to start with Ahsoka to give new audiences a character to latch to).

Yeah I guess Ahsoka is as good a reason as any. But Anakin is ostensibly the main character of this era, and is very different in AOTC and ROTS, so you’d think a 7 season show roughly revolving around him would show that growth. But when we meet him he’s basically 75% of the way to his ROTS characterization already (not to mention we’re missing the introductions of characters like Asajj and Grievous, as was previously mentioned in this thread). I don’t have a problem with it really, it’s just odd to think about. I guess they maybe could have done an arc or two set before the movie to bridge the gap (they did do a couple episodes) but whatever.

Ultimately I guess if you’re hungry for pre-TCW post-AOTC content, the 2D Clone Wars is still the place to go.

Anakin Starkiller said:

They also didn’t want to conflict with the at the time canon 2D Clone Wars. Honestly, if this takes off and they end up finishing all the remaining unproduced stories, I’d be down to see a prequel season or two with Anakin as a padawan and mullet Obi-Wan, set just after AotC.

I’d be down for this, even if I doubt it’d happen. Maybe do it as a couple hour long specials or something.

pleasehello said:

I don’t know about love, but I’m so glad they used a new recording of the opening fanfare and not the same tinny one that they used for both TFA and TLJ.

I don’t think I’ll ever understand why they used the same one for TLJ. They recorded a new one, and even Johnson seemed to be under the impression it was used in the final film.

Interesting. I do remember hearing some speculation (or maybe it was based on something Filoni or someone else said) that we would see the Jedi purge to some extent. Considering that scene comes right before Order 66, I imagine this will probably end up being true. But to what extent? If I had to guess I’d say we’ll see Captain Rex’s perspective? Don’t really want to show everyone getting murdered on a kids show (plus we’ve seen it in the film anyway), and Rex will show a different side of the event that will lead into Rebels. Well, I guess we’ll have to see Ahsoka’s perspective as well.

I will say, if they’re going right up and into ROTS, that’ll make the fact that they just sort of dropped into the Clone Wars halfway between AOTC and ROTS even weirder.

Like the ability or not, it’s silly to criticize it just because it never showed up before. If that’s the metric then we’d never get anything new.

Oh I knew he was being sarcastic. Still an interesting thing to talk about though, I encourage all discussions about random background characters, that’s the only thing at this point that hasn’t been argued to death.

My thought is it’s someone in the casino remotely. Sort of like Palpatine’s full size hologram having a walking platform in TPM.

act on instinct said:

As long as I get to be snarky about it so I come out on top!

Is there any other way?

NeverarGreat said:

But this discussion has been had and nobody is changing their minds now.

Might as well keep going for a couple more pages though, right? At least until someone asks why Holdo didn’t tell Poe her plan.

It’s a common topic of discussion elsewhere but honestly it has little impression on this board. So probably not worth talking about much further.

StarkillerAG said:

DominicCobb said:

Honestly what I tend to see is Reylos claiming non-Reylos are sexist, while non-Reylos claim Reylos are racist, meanwhile neither seems to be true for the most part. Everyone could stand to chill a bit I think.

Yeah, both sides of the argument could use a chill pill. I really don’t care about the whole Reylo business, I was just saying that I don’t sympathize much with the Reylos.

Well I sympathize with anyone who receives targeted hate just because they think two fictional characters should kiss and stuff. Just because some Reylos are bad doesn’t mean they all deserve to be bullied. And I don’t think John Boyega is helping.

Honestly what I tend to see is Reylos claiming non-Reylos are sexist, while non-Reylos claim Reylos are racist, meanwhile neither seems to be true for the most part. Everyone could stand to chill a bit I think.

NeverarGreat said:

DominicCobb said:

NeverarGreat said:

But that vision of Rey wasn’t in the final film, right? He just got a bunch of images from previous events and such.

I believe in one of the flashes you can see Dark Rey on the throne.

Heh, I watched it twice and still didn’t catch that, even when looking for it the second time. Probably should have been more prominent than blink and you miss it.

Yep.

NeverarGreat said:

But that vision of Rey wasn’t in the final film, right? He just got a bunch of images from previous events and such.

I believe in one of the flashes you can see Dark Rey on the throne.

I believe Kylo got a vision while at Vader’s castle, which inspired him to reconnect with Vader’s mask, where he then saw the vision of Rey (I think).

RogueLeader said:

The one thing I worry about regarding not getting the Oracle scene would be that whatever his lines were related to plot threads that don’t exist in the theatrical film. I don’t think they will release deleted scenes that reference plot points that were later changed.

I will say, if it’s true that it was still in the film as late as November, I doubt at that point it referenced much that was significantly changed, considering the film locked later that month.

His walk back sounded fake to me. Regardless, if there are Leia scenes that were cut because they didn’t look good, they probably wouldn’t want to release them. But that’s not to say there’ll be no Leia deleted scenes released. There’s at least one shot of her in the trailers that wasn’t used (and looks pretty good). My guess is it was her saying MTFBWY to Rey before she left for Pasaana. Likely just cut for pacing.

It’s hard to say at this point though.

Honestly I’m definitely operating on the assumption that there will be no deleted scenes. I’m usually an optimistic guy but something in my gut just tells me there’s no hope here. Maybe it’s just the movie itself that’s made me pessimistic.

Truth is we have precedence on our side. JJ Abrams has never put out a film of his on home video without deleted scenes. And the only Star Wars film so far to not have deleted scenes is Rogue One, but because of the rewrites and reshoots, it’s likely there weren’t any deleted scenes that were compatible with the final version of the film.

Of course that’s where the pessimism comes back, because TROS faced a decent amount of reshoots and rewrites as well, though not nearly to the same degree. Ultimately, all we can do is wait. I expect an announcement some time later next month. Then we’ll know.