DominicCobb

Rose and Hux (fun moment for both characters):
https://twitter.com/Benredemption/status/1224405854457417731?s=20

Lando and Leia (good stuff):
https://twitter.com/Benredemption/status/1224407397571219456?s=20

3PO and R2 (genuinely great joke):
https://twitter.com/Benredemption/status/1224408383278796800?s=20

Kylo and Palpatine (hologram recording):
https://twitter.com/Benredemption/status/1224409548812931073?s=20

idir_hh said:

DominicCobb said:

idir_hh said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

idir_hh said:

Art is subjective. You might think some of this is stupid, I happen to think it’s a masterpiece.

The grass is always greener, but “masterpiece” seems a tad strong for a partial screenplay of a film that was never made.

Yeah I don’t get how you can call 5 pages of a first draft script of an unproduced script a “masterpiece.” That’s more than a little silly.

Robert meyer Burnett read out most of the script on his YouTube channel and based on that script I think we would have gotten a film worthy of the Star Wars name.
The world building, the drama, the lore, the classic comedy and the politics, it’s all in there for me.

Personally I’m waiting to get my hands on the script myself.

Maybe there’s a chance it gets adapted into a novel.

Doubt that’d happen anytime soon, if ever. We only ever got one unproduced Lucas script adapted into anything, and that was literally the very first SW draft (so much more historically interesting).

idir_hh said:

DominicCobb said:

pleasehello said:

idir_hh said:

Art is subjective. You might think some of this is stupid, I happen to think it’s a masterpiece.

The grass is always greener, but “masterpiece” seems a tad strong for a partial screenplay of a film that was never made.

Yeah I don’t get how you can call 5 pages of a first draft script of an unproduced script a “masterpiece.” That’s more than a little silly.

Robert meyer Burnett read out most of the script on his YouTube channel and based on that script I think we would have gotten a film worthy of the Star Wars name.
The world building, the drama, the lore, the classic comedy and the politics, it’s all in there for me.

Personally I’m waiting to get my hands on the script myself.

StarkillerAG said:

DominicCobb said:

NeverarGreat said:

Lest we forget, the concept art for TFA was far more interesting than what we got, so it’s really difficult to even speculate on the look of the final result.

The TFA art is illuminating as well, because you have, for instance, let’s say five or so distinct concepts for what kind of planet Jakku might be. So even if the film did completely follow through with a cool piece of art it necessarily will not be able to satisfy every concept.

Yeah, but the concepts we’ve seen so far look pretty faithful to Trevorrow’s script. Remember that the art of TLJ was almost exactly like the theatrical movie, and no matter what your opinions on that movie are you have to agree it looks awesome. And I don’t just like the script because of the cool visuals, I like it because of the characters and the plot too. The plot of TROS is a hot mess, and no amount of editing would be able to fix it in my opinion. So I think this version of IX would be much better than the theatrical version.

It’s faithful to a version of Trevorrow’s script. Keep in mind this version is from 12/16, and there very likely would have been many changes from then to 12/19 - not just in the script phase, but in the production and post-production phases as well. TLJ was pretty much fully formed from the initial drafts, but DOTF would have likely gone through many revisions when you consider they were unhappy enough with it to fire Trevorrow outright.

pleasehello said:

idir_hh said:

Art is subjective. You might think some of this is stupid, I happen to think it’s a masterpiece.

The grass is always greener, but “masterpiece” seems a tad strong for a partial screenplay of a film that was never made.

Yeah I don’t get how you can call 5 pages of a first draft script of an unproduced script a “masterpiece.” That’s more than a little silly.

There is some good stuff in there, though. I rather liked Trevorrow’s version of Ben’s redemption. I think J.J.s version was good too. Both seem a bit abrupt though.

I struggle to see how Trevorrow’s is better in any way. Ben’s turn is already abrupt in TROS, but here it’s almost comically so. Essentially it happens the same way - Kylo’s about to kill Rey but Leia contacts him and turns his heart, then Ben gives Rey his lifeforce to survive sacrificing himself - except all mashed together in a couple minutes. You’re missing him reconciling with the murder of his father, and trying to make amends in any sort of way (facing Palpatine). Honestly, it might even be a stretch to call it redemption at all. He just decides not to kill Rey, which isn’t terribly impressive, and then sacrifices himself to save her, which is only necessary because he himself had been killing her. Hardly a selfless act of atonement.

The reason Kylo sucks so much in what we’ve seen and know about Trevorrow’s script is because it’s a complete evaporation of his character progression. He’s back to being the Vader wannabe from TFA, he just happens to be more successful at it. He’s become one dimensional, without a care for the complications developed in the previous installments. Which is to say nothing of his relationship with Rey. I don’t care if they didn’t go romance or not, but obviously TLJ set up a much more complex relationship between the two than good guy bad guy (which TROS continued), and they seem to have completely dropped that here.

The sad thing is they didn’t even need to show a full on stormtrooper rebellion. Even just the suggestion of a rebellion off screen following the film would have been nice. Honestly, even just convincing other stormtroopers to defect, or convincing the already defected stormtroopers (Jannah and co.) to fight for the resistance would have been something.

With all these significant leaks about Trevorrow’s Episode IX, maybe it’s more proper to keep the discussion to a thread specifically for it (maybe a new thread should be made?).

I’m starting to see randos on the internet with access to script pages, I think it’s probably only a matter of time until the full script is readily available (or at least I’m hoping). Here’s some of the pages:

Finn talks with a stormtrooper (great moment):
https://twitter.com/Benredemption/status/1224180392787349505?s=20

Kylo and Tor Vallum:
https://twitter.com/Benredemption/status/1224182423577071616?s=20

Leia and R2:
https://twitter.com/Benredemption/status/1224185829733609472?s=20

Rey and Poe kissing (dumb):
https://twitter.com/Benredemption/status/1224187554993405952?s=20
https://twitter.com/Benredemption/status/1224189147713327104?s=20

Hux trying to use the force:
https://twitter.com/Benredemption/status/1224192098271973376?s=20

Han and Ben (but it’s a flashback):
https://twitter.com/Benredemption/status/1224196903774162944?s=20

Rey vs. Kylo (featuring Kylo’s death)(stupid):
https://twitter.com/Benredemption/status/1224194877363294209?s=20

I’m really curious to see what else is revealed but I will say the Kylo stuff is definitely a sour note. Basically he just keeps getting more and more eviler until at literally the very last second he decides to stop. Doesn’t seem to have the same follow through as the other characters (although I’m not sure what Poe is up to), and I definitely get the sense that Trevorrow and Connelly are the kind of fans who think Kylo is a little punk bitch who should be more badass like Vader or some shit. He even gets a brand new helmet (which I’d argue is worse character regression than repairing his old one).

NeverarGreat said:

Lest we forget, the concept art for TFA was far more interesting than what we got, so it’s really difficult to even speculate on the look of the final result.

The TFA art is illuminating as well, because you have, for instance, let’s say five or so distinct concepts for what kind of planet Jakku might be. So even if the film did completely follow through with a cool piece of art it necessarily will not be able to satisfy every concept.

I think adding additional missions to Smuggler’s Run ala Star Tours could definitely add some nice variety, and it makes sense to incorporate Mando stuff in there. Although, they seem quite married to this idea that everything in the park takes place in a specific timeframe so I’m not really sure how Mando content would factor in, besides simply using a location from the show or invoking the Guild.

StarkillerAG said:

DominicCobb said:

I’m kinda confused, because the art makes it looks like the film would have indeed been “epic” and possibly “oversized” and “bloated.” TROS seems much more restrained in comparison, for better or worse.

I understand what you mean. I guess the reason I prefer Trevorrow’s version to JJ’s version isn’t because it’s smaller, but because it’s more character focused. Every main character gets a coherent arc. Rey becomes a master of the Force, able to wield both light and dark, and begins training the next generation of Force users. Kylo becomes stronger and stronger in his quest for power, but as a result he becomes a machine, alienated from the living world. Finn uses his experience as a defecting stormtrooper to rally support on Coruscant, turning the tide of the war and destroying the First Order from within. All the character arcs in Trevorrow’s version are so much stronger than in JJ’s version, which sidelines the characters to focus on the big dumb action.

I agree that sounds better (besides Kylo whose storyline seems painfully lame), but I can’t bring myself to declare it better, partly because I tend to think that it was the edit of JJ’s version that ultimately made it focused on big dumb action, and there’s no way to know what the final product of Trevorrow’s concepts would have looked like.

I’m kinda confused, because the art makes it looks like the film would have indeed been “epic” and possibly “oversized” and “bloated.” TROS seems much more restrained in comparison, for better or worse.

The Lapti Nek scene is pretty short as is. It’s only Jedi Rocks that turns the scene into a musical number. I feel like people forget this.

Finally made it to Galaxy’s Edge yesterday. Was very fortunate to get the chance to ride Rise of the Resistance, which is probably the best theme park ride I’ve ever experienced (seriously). The Falcon ride is also a lot of fun though there are some things holding it back a bit. The land itself is absolutely fantastic and the attention to detail is very impressive. It might not be a location we’ve seen before, but it is very clearly in the SW universe. I had a busy day so I didn’t get to spend terribly too much time there, but I feel like you could easily just spend half a day hanging out there. I’d have loved to just spent some more time there just soaking in the atmosphere.

My biggest complaint is a common one, the lack of music is really unfortunate. I understand they want you to feel like you actually are inside the SW universe, where there’s no soundtrack, but that’s not really what people want. People want to be inside the movies, where there most certainly is a John Williams score. The music populates the rides however, so there is that, at least.

Didn’t get a chance to go into the cantina because I didn’t have a reservation (next time) and also didn’t make a saber (not next time or probably anytime until I have money to waste). I will say, unfortunately, reports of the land being a failure have been exaggerated. I can assure you it was very crowded.

Oh man, don’t get my hopes up. That’d be such an interesting scene, but honestly, considering how the rest of the film went, my gut is that scene never got past the scripting stage because… how do I want to say this… it’d be too hard for this creative team to get it right so they probably didn’t even try?

I think whereas TLJ was polarized, TROS is mixed. Most people were very passionate about TLJ one way or the other, saying it was either (one of) the best or (one of) the worst. Reactions for TROS seem to be less extreme and closer to the middle for both the defenders and detractors. I know there are a lot of people who like the film, but they don’t seem as ardent as those who like TLJ, for instance.

StarkillerAG said:

Did you even bother to read the rest of what I said? You may not interpret it as hopelessness, but I did. The underlying message that there will always be fascist governments and heroic sacrifices are pointless in the greater scheme of things seems overly calculating and depressing to me.

I did read the rest of what you said, I’m just not interested in rehashing an argument I’ve had many times before, including recently. I was merely responding to your statement, which implied that those who like the film do so because it has a message of hopelessness. I can assure you that is not how we see it.

StarkillerAG said:

It seems like I dislike this movie for the same reason that many people like it: the underlying message of hopelessness.

I don’t think anyone who likes it thinks that the underlying message is “hopelessness.”

NFBisms said:

hey i haven’t done this in a bit it feels good to be home

You know I’m just pulling your leg! It was a great writeup. Luke’s failure is an important theme for not just the movie to grapple with, but the whole trilogy. It’s a thematic justification for the ‘history repeats itself’ angle.

It’s always nice to look back on a movie that works for you and talk about why it works so well. For me, being a Star Wars fan is more about liking something rather than disliking it. There’s a lot that bothers me about TROS for example, but I can’t imagine I’ll still be mercilessly complaining about it two years on. I like to focus on the positive.

DominicCobb said:

Glad we’re starting to have some new arguments about this movie.

DominicCobb said:

OutboundFlight said:

DominicCobb said:

There’s no reason there has to be peace for a thousand generations. Ben just says the Jedi were the guardians of peace in that time.

Palpatine in AOTC says the Republic has stood for a thousand years. Potentially a discrepancy between that and Ben’s line, but you could explain it. Either way neither of them says there was no war at all for that long.

Ah, nice. So going off that we could say:

The Jedi have stood for a thousand generations, acting as a separate religion, and when the Republic was formed they became their guardians of peace and justice. It makes sense for Ben to group the two together when explaining to a young boy with a limited attention span.

The Republic was founded one thousand years ago, and could have had all the major conflicts Disney wants to fill their story. Personally I’m very excited to explore this period.

Yeah. You could argue though that Ben’s says they were the guardians in the Old Republic, which implies that was there for a thousand generations too, but who cares. You could even just say there’s been multiple iterations of the Old Republic, like there was a new constitution a thousand years ago. Either way, I think it’s all ambiguous enough that they could pretty much do whatever they want.

Rewatching TCW, Pre Vizla says that the darksaber was stolen by his ancestors from the Jedi temple during the “fall of the Old Republic.”

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Fall_of_the_Old_Republic

What that means for the High Republic, who’s to say, I guess there’s isn’t anything established. I think I’ve said it before but showing the Old Republic Jedi vs. the Mandalorians seems like such an obvious next step but what do I know. Maybe they’re saving it for later.

idir_hh said:

Knight of Ren Actor Juan Bautista Confirms Ending was changed a week before TROS release.

https://youtu.be/QR6veQEzcu0

Seems like the actor is speaking in strange terms so as to not get himself sued.

Apparently total bullshit.

smpearce1981 said:

DominicCobb said:

Maybe I’ve said this before, but this current paragraph 2 in the OP (which everyone is working off of)

Rey, sole heir to the Jedi, continues her training under General Leia Organa, hoping to commune with Jedi of the past.

doesn’t really accomplish much, because we don’t learn anything from this that we don’t find out within 30 seconds of seeing Rey. Anyone looking to rewrite the crawl should take a crack at that, I think. Personally I would recommend either trying to give some insight as to why she’s doing this, or use the space to talk about something else entirely.

Ok challenge accepted:-

Here’s where the logic was in mine - with notes on my process (ie I didn’t just make changes for changes sake)

‘The Resistance rises!

(removing direct references to Palpatine and now trying to convey that the Resistence is in a much stronger position than when we last saw them at the end of TLJ)

Since you’re going nitty gritty I’ll try to give nitty gritty notes. I like the angle, but I feel like it might be weird to have the word “rise” in the opening sentence if it is in the film’s title?

Luke Skywalker’s sacrifice at the battle of Crait has reignited the spark of hope across the galaxy and hundreds more freedom fighters have joined in the fight against the tyranical FIRST ORDER

(really emphasise that Luke dying wasn’t in vain and his actions may have turned the tide)

I would lose “at the battle of Crait.” Cut right to the point. The less words you can use to achieve your goals the better.

REY, the last of the Jedi lineage:-

(Was going to settle on ‘The last of the Jedi’ however I added ‘lineage’ to explain that Rey is not a full Jedi yet but still highlight that the core of her training is directly linked to legitimate Jedi practice an/or practitioners established across the series so far:- Yoda> Qui-gon> Obi-Wan> Luke> Rey…(equals Lineage?)

Your wording makes sense to me, though perhaps another option is what’s in the film already? “The last hope of the Jedi.” Seems to get the idea across, though using the word “hope” again might feel redundant.

continues her training under the guidance of GENERAL LEIA ORGANA, and attempts to communicate with the great Jedi from the past, hoping that their wisdom will help her during the confrontation to come:-

(Ok, maybe there is still work to do here…but I think fundamentally it serves it’s purpose, because 1) she can’t communicate with dead Jedi yet 2) Explains why it be important that she tries too…she seeks their wisdom to learn more/apply it/become more powerful…Leia’s limited Jedi/Force knowledge isn’t enough to get Rey where she needs to be to be considering that it’s only a matter of time before they have to fight the first order again)

(so what am I trying to say in plain words:-

Rey is doing the best she can to develop her powers considering all that she’s got is a few old books and Leia’s limited knowledge, but if she could just make contact with the experts in their field she might finally get some specific answers to some specific questions and level up quicker…which would be really helpful cos the first order are coming and last time she met Kylo Ren they were evenly matched…she needs an advantage and is not above trying to take shortcuts)

It’s a little wordy. I will say you’ve given a reason why - the confrontation to come - which is good. But maybe there’s a way to rethink the whole thing? Lose describing her as “heir to the Jedi/last of the Jedi lineage/whatever,” because giving her that sort of ‘chosen one’ descriptor belies the scrappiness you’re looking for (the old books, rusty Leia, etc.).

Meanwhile, KYLO REN leads an assault on MUSTAFAR:-

(at least explain that the opening scene is a familiar location)

Understandable, but also unimportant and easily deleted if looking to cut down

in search of an artefact:-

(explain the objective and add context when the Mcguffin is revealed 30 seconds later)

that will guide him to the source of a mysterious presence that offers a dark alliance, one that will help him crush his enemies once and for all…’

(Trying not to reveal the identity of Palpatine at this stage but explain why Kylo is motivated to investigate

He might not trust the source or the offer, but it’s worth exploring. If it’s not all as promised he’ll just kill the person who’s messing with him, but it’s definitely worth taking a look if it helps him solidify his rule)

This is another spot you could cut down. He’s going to Mustafar for an artifact for the source of a presence that offers an alliance. That’s a lot of steps for one sentence, you can cut a few out and that’ll make it more easily understood.

Maybe I’ve said this before, but this current paragraph 2 in the OP (which everyone is working off of)

Rey, sole heir to the Jedi, continues her training under General Leia Organa, hoping to commune with Jedi of the past.

doesn’t really accomplish much, because we don’t learn anything from this that we don’t find out within 30 seconds of seeing Rey. Anyone looking to rewrite the crawl should take a crack at that, I think. Personally I would recommend either trying to give some insight as to why she’s doing this, or use the space to talk about something else entirely.

We will not rest until every single aspect of this film has been criticized!

RogueLeader said:

Haha, it reminds me back when I made that Saga Continuity Thread and it was starting to feel like a committee-made fan editing project! Not exactly my intention. But yeah, I’m going to have an edit where Ben Solo lives regardless, but I think it would be cool if multiple editors worked together to make an alternative epilogue, and that is one of the things I wanted to accomplish.

Unfortunately I think the epilogue is going to have to do a lot of the heavy lifting for the film, since we can only do so much with the main body of the film. But to me, having a better epilogue can go a long way to make the film have a more satisfying ending for the audience, and also leave a lot to the imagination. I guess I would like for it to be where someone could watch this fan made ending and it leaves them wondering about the future adventures these characters will go on. Which is why I want to give people a better taste of how the war concludes or carries on, and what happens to Finn, Poe, Chewie, 3PO and R2, and finally Rey and Ben. Where do their stories go after the celebration?

That’s exactly how I feel. I see a lot of complaints online about a lot of aspects of the final scene, but ultimately the real reason it falls flat for me is simple: it doesn’t make me excited for what comes next. I think they were to caught up with making it an ~ending~ that they forgot that most great endings leave you excited for the future of the characters regardless of whether you’ll see those futures or not.