DominicCobb

Alderaan said:

DominicCobb said:
It’s one thing if he’s just sniffling over it, it’s another thing if he’s got a lightsaber and killing his father (amongst all the countless others). I can’t help but think about his implied massacre of Luke’s Jedi Academy - there’s a real school shooter vibe there. I don’t think that’s very funny at all.

How did he kill all of these Jedi trainees when he couldn’t even kill one who was untrained?

Many possible reasons. He had help (from the other Knights of Ren we see in the force vision). They were unsuspecting. They were kids. He was the only one with a lightsaber (speculation - did Luke not teach them how to make lightsabers? why was Kylo’s so unstable/why don’t any of the other Knights have one?). He hadn’t been shot by a bowcaster.

Abrams made a conscious decision to have Ren look younger (Driver usually sports a beard) and I think Hux was supposed to be an old guy at first. Hux is interesting and scary too. When you watch the Death Star briefing scene, you get the idea that a lot of those officers are probably in it for the money or the power. But Hux is like a Hitler youth. He’s not in it for himself, he’s in it for the cause. He actually believes the First Order is right and just - that’s scary.

Alderaan said:

DominicCobb said:
Disagree strongly. The fact that he’s just a boy but so conflicted and with such power makes him actually really scary, but in a different way than the traditional Vader-type.

Some of us will also disagree with you strongly. Maybe this is an age thing, but I don’t think there is nothing intimidating about an emo boy sniffling over how unfair his life is. This is emo melodrama at its absolute worst.

It’s one thing if he’s just sniffling over it, it’s another thing if he’s got a lightsaber and killing his father (amongst all the countless others). I can’t help but think about his implied massacre of Luke’s Jedi Academy - there’s a real school shooter vibe there. I don’t think that’s very funny at all.

John Doom said:

You’re right that there actually was music, I chose the wrong words, I’m sorry. What I mean is that, to me, that music wasn’t as moving as any of the other star wars’ ending themes.

Fair enough. Here’s the offending piece by the way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUBUlKgsNK8

You have to admit that’s at least more moving than ROTJ (Yub Nub or Victory Celebration).

John Doom said:

-Kylo Ren is not a good villain: he’s weak, “emo”, with probably everyone in the movie making fun of him 😄 (also, he shouldn’t had his helmet off before Rey: seeing him as an actual human, just a boy, not even menacing, further weakens his character);

Disagree strongly. The fact that he’s just a boy but so conflicted and with such power makes him actually really scary, but in a different way than the traditional Vader-type.

-the final sequence ends abruptly, just with a few close ups and barely any music;

Don’t get this at all. Thought the end was perfect. Barely any music? Are you serious? It was all music (and beautiful music at that).

I enjoyed TPM when I saw it in theaters but I was three years old. So of course I enjoyed it (for what it’s worth AOTC was the first movie that ever disappointed me).

But I’m an adult now and when I see a movie I don’t like I have no problem saying I don’t like it. If I saw a new Star Wars movie and didn’t like it, I’d be pretty annoyed and you can bet I’d let people know. But that’s not the case. I’ve seen this film three times now and it’s been amazing each time (only gets better). I don’t just like it, I LOVE it. It really feels like something special. Star Wars is finally back.

moviefreakedmind said:
By the way, was that scene with Qui Gon communicating with Yoda actually filmed, or was it just planned or scripted but never came to fruition? I had never actually heard of that deleted scene before.

Yes it was “filmed” in the sense that it was a 100% CGI scene and there’s an animatic of it on the BD. You see the tail end of it in the film when Yoda’s meditating on Polis Massa and Bail interrupts. It was planned and scripted but they couldn’t get Neeson in the recording studio to do it (probably scheduling issue, I’m sure he’d have been game) so it was cut.

One thing I’m realizing now is that Qui-Gon never appears as a ghost but seems to be merely a voice, whereas Ben and Yoda can make their whole body appear as a ghost. Is that because the former’s body didn’t disappear and the latters’ did? Maybe. Doesn’t account for Anakin but I don’t think he should have become a ghost anyway.

I love how if you pay attention to what frevious says he actually likes ROTJ and TFA but because there are people on this site that hate them he thinks the whole franchise is ruined.

Yeah, it’s not the overly optimistic ending of Jedi where evil is destroyed forever, but honestly some of us don’t like that about Jedi. You can never really get rid of evil. Max talks about it in the film. First the Sith, then the Empire, now the First Order. Evil will always be out there (as it is in the real world), but we can’t just run away. We must face them.

There is a strangeness to it, when you take it as a sequel to Jedi. The problem is, of course, that there was 30 years in between. Typically this would not be the story that would follow the story in Jedi. Jedi sets up the destruction of the Empire, the rise of the new, good power (Rebellion/Republic), and that Luke will be passing on what he has learned. That’s what someone would reasonable expect in a ROTJ follow up. And it’s not like those things didn’t happen - they did, just off screen. It feels like, to me anyway, that there’s a whole other trilogy that happened before TFA and after ROTJ (detailing the beginning of the New Republic and New Jedi Academy and all the way through the rise of the First Order/Resistance and Ben’s turn to the dark side and Jedi Purge). I suppose it’s similar to the OT - there it feels like there could’ve have been a whole trilogy that came before. Now obviously they made that trilogy as the PT but here in TFA we don’t get that in-between so the surprises and mystery of the backstory is restored much like in the OT. In that way, TFA and the ST truly feels like a new Star Wars trilogy for a new generation (unlike the PT which… well you know).

Anyway it’s a story I’m eager to read (whenever they decide it’s okay to make books/comics in that era - unfortunately probably post-EpIX).

TV’s Frink said:

Just got back from a second viewing with my wife. We both rated it the same as before, maybe even slightly higher. I’ve been relaying the criticisms people here have expressed and she’s as baffled as I am. This was a great movie.

Same except instead of wife it was my friends and instead of second it was third. I really do love this movie a lot.

Jay said:

Anyone who went in wanting ANH, but not expecting it to be quite as good, got what they wanted. People like me, who wanted ESB, but not as good, were disappointed.

Maybe you’re right? ANH is my favorite movie and I went in expecting a not-as-good modern retelling and got what I wanted. In my mind, since I expected rehashed elements, I was delighted by the little twists and ways things were different than ANH, but was also able to accept the way the film was reminiscent of ANH, both in structure and spirit.

I’m sorry if you and others can’t appreciate the film due to its lack of originality, but I can only hope you guys might be able to enjoy it then next time you see it and know what to expect.

Random rant:

This movie makes me so happy. I must say I honestly love how much of a phenomenon it is. Almost everyone I know has seen it. Christmas parties were actually fun this year because I had something exciting to talk about! The crazy thing to is, I have yet to meet someone who isn’t head over heels in love with it. Like, whenever someone asks me what I feel about it, I’m a little hesitant to come right out with my love for it because I don’t want people to think I’m hyperbolizing, but then I find they loved it as much as me. Honestly, the only people I’ve heard dislike it are people on the internet (this site specifically). Every single person I know in real life who has seen it has loved it. It’s crazy, but t’s true, and somehow it makes me so happy (I had a two hour phone call with an old friend about the movie last week). Star Wars is bringing people together. That’s exactly what it does best.

captainsolo said:

All my nitpicks and problems aside…it just didn’t have the spirit of STAR WARS. The stuff that grabbed us in the original film and the best of the EU; the spark, the spirit of adventure, the TLC given by nerds in a garage sticking together model kits at breakneck speed, Gary Kurtz and others having to race to finish directing second and third unit insert shots, the intrinsic flaws, the ties to real-life shared experiences, the yearning for something more…in short the Damn Fool Idealistic Crusade.

It felt like it had all of that to me.

This Abrams/Kasdan interview tells me it had the proper spirit behind the scenes too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlrfnT5KNGc

TavorX said:

I really like that and seems to fit.

Edit: Official sources?

I would have cited the actual source if I had remembered. It’s JJ Abrams: http://www.ign.com/videos/2015/12/18/jj-abrams-explains-why-kylo-ren-turned-to-the-dark-side?utm_source=IGN hub page&utm_medium=Movies&utm_content=1&utm_campaign=Spotlight

The comparison to what Luke was told is just an extrapolation I made.

Hal 9000 said:

The idea was that, because I use the Phantom Editor’s redubbing of Zam to cut short the toxic dart investigation, it’s clear that she is reverting to her true form as she gets her dying words out. If that wasn’t the case, I’d agree and allow it to be the effects of the dart making her disfigured. I do like it when edits do the “I think he is a she” joke.

I’m not sure if redubbing her makes it clear she’s reverting to her true form (in fact dubbing her in English rather than whatever weird language she’s uses originally makes it seem even more as if the dart is deforming her rather than turning her back to her native appearance and language). Don’t think there’s really an issue in both using the Phantom Editor line and cutting the changeling aspect. I don’t mind the concept of it but the problem is, like many things in AOTC, it goes absolutely nowhere. It’s actually one of the very editing choices you made for EpII that I disagree with. So I’d like to just give my two cents and say chuck it for V4.

I’ve read (from official sources) that the idea is that Snoke told Kylo that Vader’s redemption was actually a moment of weakness, that he was seduced to the light side which lead to his death and the destruction of the Empire (much the same way Luke was told Anakin was seduced to the dark side which lead to his “death” and the destruction of the Republic). Kylo’s fears of turning back to the light echo Luke’s fears of turning to the dark.

Anyway, when Kylo says he’ll finish what Vader started, he means what Vader didn’t get to finish because of his “redemption” (and the what being I assume the eradication of the Jedi - so Luke, who from his point of view is analogous to the Emperor from Luke’s).

A reall fascinating twist on the established story, I think.

It’s sort of funny to hear people chiding TFA for supposed “lack of originality.” Of all people, Star Wars fans should know better than to care about that.

From a member on this very site, a website that breaks down all the things that one could say Star Wars “ripped-off”:
http://kitbashed.com/blog/star-wars-kitbashed
http://kitbashed.com

Lucas was copying the cinema of his childhood, and so was Abrams. Guess it comes down to that age old question of rip-off vs. homage.

What are the prequel references in the film? I counted a few, but don’t almost none are direct and some might not even be intentional.

MILD SPOILERS:

• Lor San Tekka mentions bringing balance to the force (was this a concept before the PT?). There’s also the speculation going around that his first line is a shot at the PT (“This will begin to make things right”) which is entirely possible
• Kylo Ren asks Hux if they should be using a clone army instead of the brainwashed recruits they have (feel like this was put in so those expecting the stormtroopers to be clones wouldn’t be confused)
• Maz mentions the Sith (a word that has been a part of Star Wars since the original, but only spoken on film before in the PT)
• Ewan McGregor provides a voice-over for Rey’s vision (probably the only direct acknowledgement of the existence of the PT honestly)
• This is conjecture, but I feel like Kylo’s hair-do might be purposefully reminiscent of Anakin’s in ROTS (in-universe as well as behind the scenes)

Handman said:

The line I hate the most in ROTJ was “Somehow, I think I’ve always known”.

I agree it’s a bad line, but only because of the squicky kiss in ESB. If there had been no kiss, it’s actually a pretty good line (the two have had a brother/sister relationship for years, and they should presumably feel some sort of bond through the force).

Bosk said:

The film has been out for almost ten days now, spoilers are EVERYWHERE ffs, delete the thread if you want

Would if I could.

Also, if you’re in the US, the film hasn’t even been out for a full week yet.

trimboNZ said:

Swazzy said:

I just found the line they used to have Alec Guinness say Rey’s name

“Come here, little one! Don’t be afREYd.”

[And here it is in TFA @57]LINK REMOVED

I find it so amusing how they pulled this off. It’s such a fanedit-y thing to do.

Or perhaps it’s the other way around. My cynical side postulates that the name “Rey” was chosen specifically to match sounds uttered by Guinness.

Seems more irrational than cynical.

Spielberg was apparently Lucas’s first pick for ROTJ, but I wonder if he had actually been allowed to do it if Lucas still would have backseat directed like he did with Marquand.

Somehow I feel like either Lucas would have backed off (like on the Indys) or they might have even co-directed?

Honestly, I think it would have been unbelievable if there weren’t spies there. And anyway, I thought the First Order spy might have actually been a bounty hunter?

Funny, I almost see it the other way around.

Smoking Lizard said:

DominicCobb said:

Story and plot are two different things. And anyway, if the plot of TFA is just the same as ANH (which it isn’t) then it’s not a bad plot at all.

No disrespect, but I really don’t think you understand this concept.

And you do? Clearly not if you think they’re the same.

Bottom line though, if you haven’t seen the film, criticizing the options of those who have is simply ridiculous. I have no time for your bullshit. Move along.

Fair enough. It’s a discussion board. About movies. Not politics, philosophy, social justice, or religion.

It’s entertainment. For fun…you know? But certainly, you’re not required to contribute to the discussion if you don’t want to.

Exactly my point! You can know a candidate’s worth just by reading a list of their policies on paper. You don’t have to meet them. Whether or not they’re fun in person doesn’t matter. But a movie is all about entertainment, fun… you know? You cannot POSSIBLY know how much fun a movie is without seeing it.