Lucas has never hid the fact that he was directly influenced by a number of different sources for Star Wars. The original film was purposefully designed as a pastiche.
You’re a cat right?
That would explain why all the girls used to pet my hair in grade 7. 😛
Too much info. The bad news never ends.
This thread has thus far been about seducing Possessed and talking through/like/about/to/with assholes. So I think we’re on the right track but seriously guys you can do better than this.
I’ve only ever seen The Final Cut and it’s terrific. I’ve been meaning to watch the other cuts for some time now but I don’t have any reason to suspect any are as good as the Final.
I hate the false stereotypes of Kirk that informed Abramstrek’s depiction of him.
I don’t doubt Kirk was a ladies man. There is on screen evidence for that. It’s the perception he got jiggy with every woman he met in every episode. Eddie Murphy even had a bit in his 80’s standup act about how Kirk did it with an Orion slave girl. That never happened. Casual viewers somehow mash up Vina seriously turning Pike on with Marta, who would kiss Kirk as she attempted to knife him in Whom Gods Destroy.
Still, it doesn’t seem out of character for Kirk to be getting jiggy with an Orion slave girl in Star Trek 09, especially considering his younger age and the slightly different personality that comes with the alternate upbringing.
-the editing was wrong all over.
I believe that this is pertinent to the discussion: http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/12/28/star-wars-storytelling-and-fixing-it-in-post
If anything that article goes to show how good the editing is.
In a “material not included in the film” YouTube video, I saw a panel from a TFA comic book that had Chewbacca tearing off 3P0’s arm, reason unspecified. Could be unrelated, but I find it likely that it is related to some deleted scene or unfilmed part of the script or something.
I don’t know what the actual deal with this was in the script and with the deleted scenes, but I found it interesting that at the end of the film you can see C-3P0 waving with his newly restored golden left arm, and just a few feet away from him is another protocol droid who’s whole body is the same shade of red as 3P0’s arm in this film.
ZkinandBonez said:
TFA of course knocks all the PT films out of the park, despite being full of CGI (maybe even more than TPM?), because, as you said, the characters are much more compelling and likable.
Hard to know for sure without real stats but I’d wager more or less the same amount, with TPM having more in-your-face unnecessary CGI stuff like Jar Jar (TFA had Maz and Snoke but they were only in a few scenes each where as Jar Jar is all over the place), the Planet Core sequence (TFA had the Rathtars but they were integrated into a practical set [and the scene was much shorter!]), and random CGI porn on Coruscant and the pod racer introductions. It’s funny because Lucas talks in From Star Wars to Jedi about how sci-fi directors always make the mistake of spending film time showing off the amazing sets and locations they’ve created just because they’ve spent a lot of time actually making them, but really they should be getting on with the story and letting the setting speak for itself. This mantra is definitely followed in the OT and TFA but not at all in the PT.
Honestly if it’s bad writing in ROTS it’s bad writing in ROTJ as well. They’re both retcons. Leia was never adopted until Lucas decided to make her Luke’s sister.
Sure ROTJ doesn’t necessarily directly contradict anything in the previous films, but, and maybe it’s just me, there still seems to be a logical leap in Luke and Leia’s conversation. Leia already knew she was adopted (and Luke for that matter)? Seems to come out of nowhere and never fit right for me.
That scene’s actually problematic in a few different ways. “Somehow I’ve always known” speaks for itself. We never really see Leia properly react to the terrible truth that Vader is actually her father (not quite enough emotion). It plays out much better in the novel (and probably also the script, though I haven’t read it), for example this final line: "“I have to try, Leia. He’s our father”
Sounds like bad news
Off-topic’s been coasting on fumes for ages now. What do you feel is needed to blow the gasket one last time and send this baby to the dump?
As for myself, I feel we need to:
Create more emotional help threads
Bring back the Myspleen invite thread
Ban everyone but imperialscum
There’s no news here, only an unfunny joke thread
I thought the official name was indeed “Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens”, only it was marketed with a shorter title.
No, its official name is SW:TFA but the on-screen title is Episode VII.
What makes a title the official title? Isn’t it what’s on-screen?
It didn’t feel like a cliffhanger to me. It felt like the resolution to the storyline that began with “Luke Skywalker has vanished”.
Exactly. It would have been a cliffhanger if they didn’t find him.
Wouldn’t it be tilt and scan?
Wow, harsh review of The Godfather. Personally, I think it still holds up.
I’m sure this has already been discussed but I don’t feel like searching through 1284 pages so I’ll just ask. Will you be restoring the unused (in 1980) music for the transitions to the bounty hunter scene and Captain Needa’s death, as the SE did? One of the few things they got right, in my opinion.
Cliffhangers were new to Star Wars 35 years ago, guys. And TFA didn’t even have a cliffhanger.
Also, yes they didn’t make Mar Hamill being in the movie any secret through his appearance on the cast list and at Celebration and Comic-Con buuuuuut he wasn’t in ANY of the actual marketing for the film. Any of it.
The complaint about the two-seated TIE Fighter might be the nit pick to end all nit picks…
We are allowed to blaspheme even against space films with robots and space bears.
Although I wasn’t able to find the original meme I was looking for this glistening turd took it’s place.
Okay this one’s pretty annoying.
I see what you mean, but I think it’s just a generational thing. Even knowing of the extensive CGI use in the PT, I actually find Coruscant to be more interesting and immersive than any OT location, so I guess one of the many reasons I enjoy the prequels more than a lot of this board is because the special effects used don’t mess with my suspension of disbelief.
I did grow up in the “video game generation”, after all.
I watched TPM all the time as a child and when AOTC came out on VHS I watched that a ton too.
I was raised on those and the unaltered OT VHS trilogy and I actually enjoyed the PT more as a child.
Of course, I now fully appreciate the OT, but seeing ROTS in theaters just completely blew my mind.
I’m rambling. I guess I’m saying nostalgia is strong- but I did go through a prequel hating phase (Plinkett and all that) and when I came out of that, I actually liked the prequels on what I percieve to be true, albiet flawed (though not nearly as flawed as people claim), vision.I find the PT to be as good as the OT.
/ramble
I don’t know if I’d call it a generational thing. I was a child when the PT came out. I saw each in the theaters twice. I loved them then, and there’s still a part of me that loves them now. But, as I’ve matured, when I see them again now I can’t help but notice more and more faults. I’ve never gone through a prequel-hating phase and I have never watched the Plinked reviews. It is simple that when I watch all the Star Wars films now, the original three (and now TFA) are magical, yet grounded, pieces of filmmaking that I’ll never be tired of. But when I see the PT, it’s not the same way. The magic’s just not there. Aesthetically, it’s just too artificial - I can’t buy it anymore.
I would argue that TFA and the Holiday Special are the same kind of monster.
Both made without the creator’s involvement and made solely for profit.
There is nothing even close to a creative vision for either entity.So you would need to lump the prequels into the same “made solely for profit” category. Those films were only made for the money. He had no intention of ever making those films. Lucasfilm needed a money maker. the only parts of Lucasfilm making any sort of money was its subsidiary companies ( ILM, Skywalker sound etc). Lucasfilm needed a hit. The only things of any value on its books were Star Wars and Indy. They had had too many flops. The SE’s were done to test the waters. Did the public still want Star wars? If those had failed, then pre production on TPM would have likely stopped.
But its pretty obvious now that TFA could have been a masterpiece and you would still have bashed it just because it didn’t have George’s stamp all over it. Well thank god it didn’t. The prequels were nothing more than an advertisement for what ILM could do at that point and to generate much needed profits for a failing Lucasfilm. You only have to watch the behind the scenes doc on the TPM DVD that he wanted full CG sequences, not because it would be good for the story, but for nothing more than because he thought other people would want to use ILM, and this new type of FX work, for their own movies.
I don’t want to argue with you, being a huge contributor of content that I watch and enjoy, but the prequels were in no way made solely for profit. This demonization of extensive CGI use is just grasping at straws. It’s not lazy, George doesn’t personally do any effects work, practical or digital, and CG animation is not easier than practical effects to create. The worst you could say Is that George jumped the gun on CG tech when it wasn’t quite there yet.
George had the broadstrokes of the PT laid out by the end of making the OT. (Lava planet, ROTJ Vader seeming much more like Anakin Skywalker from the prequels in dialogue and characterization, etc.)Very broad strokes. In many ways the overuse of CGI was because scripts weren’t ready in time to build sets and scenes were created whole cloth in post. Read the Secret History of Star Wars or, hell, just listen to the PT commentary tracks.
I’ve done both (not in a few years mind you) and I don’t remember anything about CGI being used because of time constraints.
Watching the AOTC behind the scenes recently they say that back then CGI still actually took longer than building a set/model.
I think the actual amount of time building a practical vs. CG set is variable, but that wasn’t what I was getting at. I merely meant when they were built. Practical sets need to be built before hand, CG afterwards. Georgie didn’t finish his script in time so they had to make things afterwards (that’s where the accusations of laziness come from).
Calling the criticism of excessive CGI “demonization” seems a little extreme. I know some here claim to hate CGI but the truth is CGI is an important and useful tool. Hating CGI is silly, but none of us here really do. We just hate excessive CGI. Lucas just went overboard on AOTC and ROTS (there is a lot of CG in TPM but a reasonable amount. The problem is just that when you’re creating whole sets out of CGI it becomes very hard to suspend your disbelief and accept the live action characters as actually part of that environment. The beauty of the original Star Wars was how grounded in reality it was (the used universe aesthetic and all). Even though it was a galaxy far, far, away, everything felt real. In AOTC and ROTS, while pretty, the galaxy just does not have the same tangible feel as it does in all the other films.
I would argue that TFA and the Holiday Special are the same kind of monster.
Both made without the creator’s involvement and made solely for profit.
There is nothing even close to a creative vision for either entity.So you would need to lump the prequels into the same “made solely for profit” category. Those films were only made for the money. He had no intention of ever making those films. Lucasfilm needed a money maker. the only parts of Lucasfilm making any sort of money was its subsidiary companies ( ILM, Skywalker sound etc). Lucasfilm needed a hit. The only things of any value on its books were Star Wars and Indy. They had had too many flops. The SE’s were done to test the waters. Did the public still want Star wars? If those had failed, then pre production on TPM would have likely stopped.
But its pretty obvious now that TFA could have been a masterpiece and you would still have bashed it just because it didn’t have George’s stamp all over it. Well thank god it didn’t. The prequels were nothing more than an advertisement for what ILM could do at that point and to generate much needed profits for a failing Lucasfilm. You only have to watch the behind the scenes doc on the TPM DVD that he wanted full CG sequences, not because it would be good for the story, but for nothing more than because he thought other people would want to use ILM, and this new type of FX work, for their own movies.
I don’t want to argue with you, being a huge contributor of content that I watch and enjoy, but the prequels were in no way made solely for profit. This demonization of extensive CGI use is just grasping at straws. It’s not lazy, George doesn’t personally do any effects work, practical or digital, and CG animation is not easier than practical effects to create. The worst you could say Is that George jumped the gun on CG tech when it wasn’t quite there yet.
George had the broadstrokes of the PT laid out by the end of making the OT. (Lava planet, ROTJ Vader seeming much more like Anakin Skywalker from the prequels in dialogue and characterization, etc.)
Very broad strokes. In many ways the overuse of CGI was because scripts weren’t ready in time to build sets and scenes were created whole cloth in post. Read the Secret History of Star Wars or, hell, just listen to the PT commentary tracks.
Another VFX breakdown:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRQPwJ0O24M
Still a little dull on Tatooine, though. A happy medium would be spectacular.
That’s how any of the OOT versions should look, though. I think any expectation for vibrant blue skies and bright sand is bleedthrough of SE memories.
It’s not even so much the skies. I like the bright yellow Tatooine of Harmy’s version better than the beiges of the Silver Screen, but then when we get to the Death Star and everything is vibrantly blue-green it’s too much.
There does seem to be a lot of green, even on Tatooine. Look at the scene inside the sand crawler or in the cantina when they meet Han. The craziest though is right after that on the Death Star ("her resistance to the mind probe is considerable). I kinda like the blue-green on the Death Star but this scene sticks out as just really green. Is that actually what the tech prints looked like?
