DominicCobb

RogueLeader said:

EDIT: Sorry if I’m being redundant! If you feel like I’m going in the right direction I could try writing an actual crawl based off your most recent one.

No this is good you have some good insights.

Broom Kid said:

Finally the phrase that I want to include that no one else seems to want to is Kylo Ren wanting to “end the cycle of war once and for all.”

Yeah, I rewrote it the way I did there because it’s basically putting key characterization advancement in the crawl, and whether or not I disagree with that particular shading (and I kind of do - at that point in the movie and in your edit, he’s not trying to “end war,” he’s trying to rule unchallenged from his dictator position, and squash all potential enemies) I think it’s kind of a not-great shortcut to his eventual redemption at the end of the movie that gives away the game way too early.

To me, including that sentence isn’t shedding light on his arc, it’s shortcutting it. It’s kind of unfairly altruistic to describe his actions as “ending the cycle of war” at that point, especially if the only reason its being included is to dramatically shorten the jump from “Starts as bad guy, dies as good guy.” For the redemption to carry as much weight as possible, he needs to be bad for the first half of the movie, and read as such the most strongly in the beginning, so his arc actually has an arc to travel. The insinuation that he’s going to turn is made super-clear as it is in the movie already, dedicating crawl-space (ha!) to further hitting that idea feels a little overkill.

Completely disagree. There’s a difference between the goal and its methods. What I’m establishing is 100% in line with his words and actions in TLJ. He wants to end it all (or “let it all die”), but they way he’s doing it is crushing the Resistance. If he wants to end the cycle of war, that’s noble, but obviously if the way he’s going to do it is with a planet killing fleet (which is what I set up in this crawl), that’s not exactly altruistic in any way.

Here are my general thoughts on the crawl.

Of course I want to continue the thread set up last film of Luke inspiring the galaxy. This is where the “spark of hope” messaging comes in. Anyone who has seen TLJ will know what that’s referring to, and it makes sense separate from that, on its own, as well. My issue with directly mentioning Luke Skywalker is he isn’t really a part of this movie. So it feels wrong to mention him here as if he’s being set up for a big role, when we’re really just recapping (which the crawls don’t do). I wouldn’t necessarily mind just using the name “Skywalker” rather than “Luke Skywalker,” as then it’s less about the specific person. Like including the phrase “the legend of Skywalker” could work.

I also personally don’t really see the space for Rey in this crawl, at least I don’t believe I’ve seen anyone come up with anything about her that I feel is necessary. Saying ‘Leia is training Rey’ just seems kinda redundant to me since we learn that in their first scene. Now maybe if you combined it with the Skywalker stuff - “Rey works to continue the legend of Skywalker” - something like that it could work, although there it kinda gives away the whole thing in regard to Rey Skywalker.

Regarding the First Order, I like the “silenced communication” angle from DOTF but considering it’s not part of the plot of this film in anyway I don’t think it’s really proper to include (the Resistance never overcomes it). What I included in the crawl I just posted, about “plots to raze any systems threatening rebellion” is an intriguing idea to me. I know some people hate the Death Star cannons on the star destroyers, but I’m keeping them, and I think this might be a nice way to tie that in, like the FO is looking for that technology, which also ties in with why they’re looking for the fleet if that is to be included in the crawl as well.

With the Resistance, saying they’re “gathering intel” is accurate set up for what we get, but personally I see an opportunity here to stretch the boundaries of what’s depicted. If you say in the crawl that the Resistance is working to unite the rebelling worlds instead of just gather intel, then hopefully the people uniting in the climax isn’t so much out of left field (we know they’ve been working hard on it). When we see the Falcon gang on their mission, I’d like to think in this case the implication is that they’ve been out and busy recruiting allies, and suddenly get a heads up about a message for Leia.

Now finally Kylo Ren. I’ve already mentioned why I’m not crazy about the Mustafar name drop. The real question here is what he’s looking for. I like the mysterious “source of his master’s dark power,” although I wonder if that is almost too big a question mark. Especially for an opening like this, it could be easy to confuse, which is why I’m starting to lean towards “Imperial fleet,” which gives a tangible and easily understandable goal, and when we see the fleet on Exegol we can make the connection. I don’t like any reference to him looking for something Sith related. He says in the last film he wants the Sith to end. This is probably the one thing I like about the original crawl that it makes sure we know Kylo Ren wants to destroy Palpatine. Finally the phrase that I want to include that no one else seems to want to is Kylo Ren wanting to “end the cycle of war once and for all.” To me, this is kind of a useful statement for a few reasons. TFA and TLJ especially bring up this idea about the cycle of war, and we don’t really get any follow up here. In my mind it’s the best I can do to set this up as the climactic chapter, like this is what’s on the line. Or, at least, that’s what it’s about for Kylo. I think Kylo’s motivation is an important thing to consider. Since this is the film where he finds redemption, we should see the reason in his motivations, even while he’s bad. He’s not megalomaniacal, he’s just trying to end the cycle of war - as he explained in TLJ.

No Ash you’re right about that scene with Han. Easily the best in the whole film I’d say.

Hal 9000 said:

Wasn’t it Kasdan that reacted that way, with JJ jumping in to clarify he was “just messing with you”?

Yes.

The good old blender ranking.

Chase Adams said:

RogueLeader said:

Look on Dom’s thread, I think he already figured something out.

Is there a clip? I can’t find anything.

Honestly the change was so straightforward I didn’t think it warranted a clip.

nl0428 said:

RogueLeader said:

Look on Dom’s thread, I think he already figured something out.

Yeah, I saw that, and while I think it works, I also don’t know how the scene later on where Kylo Ren and Palpatine had their talk was originally placed can work well without it to help break up some scenes.

Without it the film goes from Rey talking to Finn to the Falcon landing on Kef Bir. You don’t miss anything.

RogueLeader said:

Audience: Please, D-O, tell me how I should feel about the ending?

D-O: “Happy”

Audience: WOOOO THIS WAS AMAZING I LOVE YOU JJ ABRAMS!

It’s literally JJ telling us to be happy.

I’m kinda torn about D-O. On the one hand, I actually do quite like that he doesn’t just make beeps and bloops, they’ve sort of switched it up. On the other hand, some of his lines bother me. Him saying “Sad” in particular after 3PO’s farewell kinda ruins the moment, not even just because it’s a joke but because it doesn’t really give it the chance to breathe. But I’m having some trouble removing it. And once I leave that in, I feel like I might as well leave in “happy” too (but maybe not).

OutboundFlight said:

Let’s all wait 5 years for the new High Republic Trilogy to ruin Star Wars and then the same ST haters will crown the ST for “at least isn’t as bad as the new High Republic Trilogy”. I’m calling it.

Absolutely right.

Just add the sand crawler shot beforehand. Should work fine.

Anakin Starkiller said:

I doubt any of the callbacks were intentional. JJ Abrams didn’t even know who Plagueis was, and he was mentioned in the movies, and you expect me to believe he knows who Darth Caedus was? These are unintentional callbacks, so of which come from simply being obvious directions to take the story in.

Pretty much the only time JJ has gone on record about the prequels is to say he likes the Darth Plagueis scene.

Oh I feel like there’s plenty that’s as visually interesting as that. Sonically, on the other hand…

I mean AOTC does feature probably the bottom 3 worst action scenes in the whole franchise.

Personally I don’t like the idea of name dropping Mustafar in the crawl, it has like a minute of screen time and is done with. The crawl should be setting up things for the movie as a whole. Plus it might be confusing considering it doesn’t look like Mustafar.

I don’t see what was wrong with the way I worded that particular sentence haha.

snooker said:

I’m so mad at how horribly she was treated > : (

It just occurred to me that she’s actually in that last shot of the Resistance, but you can’t see her because the trio is blocking her.

I mean, come on guys.

(idea is great by the way)

Octorox said:

Hal 9000 said:

Octorox said:

Hal 9000 said:

DominicCobb said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

DominicCobb said:

Here’s a rough idea for changing the music in the final scene:
https://vimeo.com/415655381

As nice as this is, I wouldn’t end the Saga on character centric theme. The Force Theme, as overused as it is, is perfect because it’s universal within the Saga.

I disagree, I see it as important for the forward-looking nature of the ending. We’re used to the force theme with the binary sunset, but now it’s Rey’s turn.

+1. It’s the perfect end theme to juxtapose with Rey Skywalker.

Just Rey is fine. 😉

(Seriously if this annoys you I’ll stop talking about it in your thread. I just think a Rey nobody edit isn’t really a Rey nobody edit if she’s still Rey Skywalker in the end.)

It doesn’t bother me. But I don’t see how that’s a punchy line to end on if her identity wasn’t an issue throughout the movie. I just don’t see myself going that route, but I’m know for conservative edits.

It’s not her identity that’s the issue, it’s her own acceptance of that identity. Earlier in the film, there’s a scene where an alien child asks her what her family name is and she says her name is “just Rey” in a sort of sheepish, slightly forlorn tone. At the end of the last film, she came to the realization that she’s a “nobody from nowhere” but we can see in this scene that she’s still not quite comfortable with that newfound knowledge. It’s still a point of embrassment rather than pride. By taking it as a badge of honor at the end of the movie, she’s fully actualized and completed her arc, whereas taking the Skywalker name feels to me like it’s a step backward. It’s her clinging to an idealized version of the Skywalker legend as she did in the first half of the Last Jedi. She needs to be comfortable being “Just Rey” before she can be “Rey Skywalker”.

These are all just my opinions of course, but I cared a lot about this character and was disappointed with the direction they took in tieing her identity to other people, whether it’s the Skywalkers or the Palpatines. As we see in the prequels, the Skywalkers and the Jedi as a whole have a complicated, messy legacy and while Rey learned from and was inspired by them, she could have also been the start of something new.

While I don’t disagree with your take on “Just Rey,” I don’t agree with how you feel about “Rey Skywalker.” The beginning of the film isn’t just her being ashamed of who she is, she’s thinking she’s inadequate. She doesn’t deserve the saber. To me, her taking the Skywalker name is her saying “I am good enough to be a Skywalker, I’m not just Rey, I’m more than that.” It’s a similar sort of growth I think.

Chase Adams said:

krausfadr said:

Chase, yeah but its not very popular so I have to talk to people here. Anyway the discussion is specifically about the possibilities for a Rey killed her parents edit which Hal is looking into.

While I do agree with you that it is worth discussing, I don’t see any indication that Hal is “looking into it” at this point in time. But seeing that this is Dom’s thread, it really depends on whether or not he sees any merit in the idea…

I think the idea has merit, but I’m skeptical. I agree with Hal I think it’d need to be accidental.

poppasketti said:

Here’s a new pass! I downloaded a new 3D model of the falcon and brought it into cinema4D and recreated the flight path. After chatting with snooker, it turns out it’s the same model he’s using. I think his engines look better, though! So we’ll see what options we come up with!

https://vimeo.com/414985184
pw: fanedit

This is looking great. I actually think there isn’t enough engine glow in snooker’s. If anything I’d push the engine glow even more so that one doesn’t immediately notice any inadequacies with the model.

Thinking about the crawl, here’s a radically different take on what I had before…

Across the galaxy, the spark of hope lives on. To quell the growing unrest, the tyrannical First Order plots to raze any system threatening rebellion.

Struggling to persevere, the wounded General LEIA ORGANA dispatches brave agents in her stead to unite the disparate worlds in the name of RESISTANCE.

Meanwhile, Supreme Leader KYLO REN searches for the unknown regions of space for the remains a rumored Imperial fleet, anxious to gain a foothold that could end the cycle of war once and for all. . . .

I kinda like the idea of Kylo searching for the fleet, but I cannot for the life of me find the right way to word that sentence.

Listen guys, I get it. The wound is still fresh. If I had to sit down and watch either AOTC or TROS, 9 times out of 10 I’d pick AOTC. But that doesn’t mean it’s the better movie, it just means it’s a movie I’ve enjoyed since childhood, and I’m more used to its inadequacies.

Truth be told I’m really tired of the “but at least the prequels ___.” For the most part it’s revisionism. The PT didn’t have any real plan, beyond the mere fact that we knew it would end with Anakin as Vader after taking a tumble in lava. George didn’t have the whole thing mapped out, hell he started shooting AOTC without a finished script and reshot half of it in post-production. On the other hand, there are certain brushstrokes for the ST that have obviously been there from the start as well (Rey takes on the mantle of restoring the order, Kylo Ren is redeemed). Regardless, what I’m sure we all can agree is the best trilogy didn’t have even an inkling of a plan at any point in time, so the approach isn’t inherently bad, regardless of execution.

I also think it’s really disingenuous to say that this trilogy is purely a cynical cash grab, just because it was produced by Disney. Clearly the people working on these movies love Star Wars. JJ and Rian are obviously big fans. Watch any BTS feature and you’ll see the entire cast and crew are completely hyped and thankful for the experience. Even Terrio, whose contributions I despise, is obviously coming from a place of being a massive fan - I just disagree with his perspective on the series in many ways (but then I did with Lucas as well).

“Well, at least AOTC wasn’t reactionary to fan complaints and didn’t resort to cheap fan service.” You sure about that? You don’t think Jar Jar’s reduced role was an accident? You don’t think AOTC feels like a complete 180 from TPM? Way less politics, way more action. Introducing an army of stormtroopers. Shoehorning in Boba Fett and his cool dad and giving him a backstory. Death Star easter egg. A huge fan service moment for Yoda. Doesn’t seem too far off.

And hey, I’m not saying AOTC had no interesting ideas. But if we’re comparing it to TROS, let’s be fair, no? We’re saying TROS had no interesting ideas? Come on. If anything, it had too many, which was part of the problem. But we’re ignoring execution of course, because AOTC fails there. Its romance, while potentially interesting on paper, is one of the least convincing and most cringeworthy relationships in cinema history. But at least it had an interesting love story? Well didn’t TROS as well?

Well alright, both films are a mess, but at least AOTC didn’t slaughter it’s main character. I mean sure, the execution was bad, but Anakin was always supposed to be an unlikeable creep, right? That was the goal? Never to make him a good person who becomes bad. He was supposed to be a piece of shit in AOTC, right? He was never supposed to be friends with Obi-wan, right? Killing innocent people is cool and hot actually, that’s why Padme married him.

Here’s where it lands for me.

They both:

• Have poor pacing
• Nonsensical plotting
• Poor narrative construction
• Do a disservice to their characters

But AOTC:

• Looks like shit
• Has awful dialogue
• Rarely fun
• Bad character dynamics
• Love scenes that are impossible to watch
• Terrible acting
• Barely feels like a Star Wars movie at all

So it’s gonna be TROS for me, sorry.

Anakin Starkiller said:

DominicCobb said:

Here’s a rough idea for changing the music in the final scene:
https://vimeo.com/415655381

As nice as this is, I wouldn’t end the Saga on character centric theme. The Force Theme, as overused as it is, is perfect because it’s universal within the Saga.

I disagree, I see it as important for the forward-looking nature of the ending. We’re used to the force theme with the binary sunset, but now it’s Rey’s turn.

Here’s a rough idea for changing the music in the final scene, using poppa’s WIP final shot:
https://vimeo.com/415655381

Here’s a rough idea for changing the music in the final scene:
https://vimeo.com/415655381

Good discussion guys. I really like the “Rey killed her parents” idea but I’m not yet convinced it is possible to accomplish. I do think the best way to do it though would be to unlink Ochi, his ship, the dagger, and Palpatine from Rey’s parents entirely.

As for Palpatine, I was thinking recently that you could potentially change his line to “find the girl,” but leave the implication that he wanted her dead. I’m not sure I’ll go this route though for a few reasons, at least not for now.

I tend to think the first few versions of this I’ll do a more conservative approach, trying to change as little as possible to allow for Rey Nobody. I’d like to get that down pat first. Then I’d be interested in playing with more radical alternatives.

DominicCobb said:

Anyone here really good at audio editing? Like really really good?

Hal 9000 said:

Interesting. What does Kylo then tell Rey in the hangar?

Well, after playing with it for forever, there is one line I just cannot seem to get right. I wanted to just post the whole scene but I’m thinking of abandoning this approach. Before I do, I wanted to share with you guys the offending line, to see if A) there’s anyone here who’s good at audio who thinks they could make it work, or B) anyone here can come up with an alternate line that accomplishes the same thing.

Why Palpatine wanted Rey dead:
https://vimeo.com/415427718
PW: fanedit

(don’t mind the music that is one thing I know I can fix)