DominicCobb

NeverarGreat said:

Anakin Starkiller said:

In fact, the comprehensibility of the entire ST rests on Leia being a Skywalker.

How so? Kylo doesn’t need to be a Skywalker to be a Vader fanboy, and he still comes from two important lineages, if you’re worried about it stealing from Rey Nobody.

So we’re just supposed to accept that he’s the son of Han and Leia and just so happens to be one of the strongest Force users in the galaxy?

I mean, the ST posits three massively important pieces of the plot all happening to land within a couple miles of each other on one planet in the galaxy, so I get that this shark is already well and truly jumped, but why add another coincidence to the pile?

Wait, do you think he’d only inherit strength in the force if Leia was a Jedi? What?

Anyway I feel like I’m gonna tap out. I don’t really care enough about these silly “ST ruined a perfect 6 episode saga” arguments. I’ll have to check back in 15 years from now when all the posters think the ST is the best thing since sliced bread so I can tell them how wrong they are.

StarkillerAG said:

DominicCobb said:

I think you’re really just looking at it all wrong. I’m not sure I understand the argument.

I could say the same for you. I don’t understand at all how the prequels fit the hero’s journey. I guess the sequels kind of fit it, but Rey’s journey has so many unnecessary distractions that it’s hopelessly confused.

Hero’s journey is just a framework that describes a type of storytelling. It’s not supposed to be a rigid step by step process for storytelling. It’s not even really accurate to say that the OT is the hero’s journey because that’s only describing Luke. Anyway, if you look at the structure, it definitely fits Anakin. I mean even just besides that the OT and the PT have the same basic story, just with opposite endings. Anakin fills out the hero’s journey almost to a T, though admittedly this includes his story through the OT, but arguably the hero’s journey fits Luke best when viewed with the ST involved too, so again, not really a perfect way to describe it.

I think Rey’s story is pretty clear. I wouldn’t say it’s confused so much as ultimately dumbed down, with the overall thematic thrust of the trilogy being the thing that is confused in the last chapter.

Anyway, I think it’s a confusing argument because like I said I don’t really understand the point being made - OT is one thing, PT is another thing, and then ST is a third thing but only the ST is left out? But really what I don’t get what’s being argued in relation to the topic’s question. You seem to be talking about what kind of stories they are (which of course I disagree with as I’ve said, I think they’re all operating in the same space), but the question is not that, it’s what are they about.

StarkillerAG said:

DominicCobb said:

StarkillerAG said:

You can’t read the full draft yet, but you can read a plot summary here:

https://makingstarwars.net/2020/01/i-read-colin-trevorrow-and-derek-connollys-final-star-wars-episode-ix-script/

I don’t think it’s much of an improvement. Mustafar, Coruscant, and Mortis are replaced with generic planets, and there’s a female Knight of Ren who only exists to give Rey and Kylo someone to team up against once Kylo turns good.

What’s wrong with a female knight of Ren?

Did you even read what I said? I don’t have a problem with the idea in theory, it’s just that she only exists to give Rey and Kylo someone to team up against.

I did, your wording was not clear at all, that’s why I asked. Also, I don’t think we can say she “only” exists for that purpose, since we don’t have the script.

Anakin Starkiller said:

DominicCobb said:

omnimuffin said:

I don’t have any problem with the concept; all of the Knights wear thick enough clothing that you wouldn’t be able to tell any more than you could tell Enfys Nest was a woman. My problem is that Sollony ain’t one of the Knights of Ren we see in the flashback or in any of the supporting material. She comes out of nowhere.

How do we know that? We don’t have the script.

You’re both wrong. Sollony could be any one of the knights we’ve already seen, and we do have a script (though maybe not the exact draft you’re looking for). It was leaked and confirmed as real by Trevorrow himself, remember?

Nothing I said is wrong. We’re talking about a script that we don’t have access to (the one with Sollony).

omnimuffin said:

DominicCobb said:

omnimuffin said:

I don’t have any problem with the concept; all of the Knights wear thick enough clothing that you wouldn’t be able to tell any more than you could tell Enfys Nest was a woman. My problem is that Sollony ain’t one of the Knights of Ren we see in the flashback or in any of the supporting material. She comes out of nowhere.

How do we know that? We don’t have the script.

Because she appears in the original draft, which we do have.

She does not.

They’re all the heroes journey. The PT just ends with tragedy, though also hope (plus we know the tragedy won’t stick). In a way this really makes the PT the odd one out.

I think you’re really just looking at it all wrong. I’m not sure I understand the argument.

act on instinct said:

How would you define the third thing the ST is doing? That’s where it feels loose to me, whereas the OT has its roots deep in that of retelling myth and the PT in tragedy.

All three are mythological stories.

omnimuffin said:

I don’t have any problem with the concept; all of the Knights wear thick enough clothing that you wouldn’t be able to tell any more than you could tell Enfys Nest was a woman. My problem is that Sollony ain’t one of the Knights of Ren we see in the flashback or in any of the supporting material. She comes out of nowhere.

How do we know that? We don’t have the script.

act on instinct said:

DominicCobb said:

act on instinct said:

StarkillerAG said:

I think the definition of the Star Wars saga depends on which trilogies you include.

If you only include the OT, it’s the story of Luke Skywalker. We watch as he goes though the hero’s journey, in the style of classic mythology.

If you add the prequels, it becomes the story of Anakin Skywalker. We watch as he rises, falls, and rises again, in the style of a classic tragedy.

If you add the sequels, it becomes the story of the Skywalker family. We watch as they go through their lives, ending with someone who isn’t part of the family taking their name.

One of these things is not like the others…

StarkillerAG said:

Yeah, the definition gets a lot looser once George stops being the showrunner. The first six movies were under one single vision, but now it’s basically a free for all.

I don’t think so, if we’re all being honest it became the story of the Skywalker family when the PT was added. Just because George retroactively said it was the story of Anakin doesn’t make it true, obviously the OT isn’t Anakin’s story and TPM barely is either.

No that’s ridiculous to say it was never the story of the Skywalker family before the PT, Luke goes with Ben as a mentor because he knew his father, he wants to live up to his father, not just be a Jedi because he’s all invested in the creed or even aware of them. What about Darth Vader being the father in the second movie? how early did George’s mind have to be set to qualify exactly?

To clarify, I think it’s reasonable to say that it was almost always the story of the Skywalker family. What I don’t think is reasonable is saying it was the story of Anakin Skywalker, which is just plainly untrue.

Besides the reason I said one is not like the others and what I believe StarkillerAG was implying has more to do with the progression from retelling classic mythology to classic tragedy where by the third it’s not so anchored in intention (which also isn’t to say the individual movies are without theme).

I’m not sure I understand your distinction. OT does one thing, PT does another thing, ST does a third thing, but I guess doesn’t fit? Seems arbitrary.

act on instinct said:

StarkillerAG said:

I think the definition of the Star Wars saga depends on which trilogies you include.

If you only include the OT, it’s the story of Luke Skywalker. We watch as he goes though the hero’s journey, in the style of classic mythology.

If you add the prequels, it becomes the story of Anakin Skywalker. We watch as he rises, falls, and rises again, in the style of a classic tragedy.

If you add the sequels, it becomes the story of the Skywalker family. We watch as they go through their lives, ending with someone who isn’t part of the family taking their name.

One of these things is not like the others…

StarkillerAG said:

Yeah, the definition gets a lot looser once George stops being the showrunner. The first six movies were under one single vision, but now it’s basically a free for all.

I don’t think so, if we’re all being honest it became the story of the Skywalker family when the PT was added. Just because George retroactively said it was the story of Anakin doesn’t make it true, obviously the OT isn’t Anakin’s story and TPM barely is either.

StarkillerAG said:

You can’t read the full draft yet, but you can read a plot summary here:

https://makingstarwars.net/2020/01/i-read-colin-trevorrow-and-derek-connollys-final-star-wars-episode-ix-script/

I don’t think it’s much of an improvement. Mustafar, Coruscant, and Mortis are replaced with generic planets, and there’s a female Knight of Ren who only exists to give Rey and Kylo someone to team up against once Kylo turns good.

What’s wrong with a female knight of Ren?

BB-Rey said:

DominicCobb said:

As misguided as TROS is, whatever George had come up with for the trilogy would have been 100% worse.

I doubt that very seriously. I think it would’ve been much better as at the very least he’d be following a broader story that is consistent. He always had an idea of where the story was going as even Steven Spielberg said in the 90’s that part of George’s process for the Prequels was part of his concept for the Sequels.

That’s not really true, Lucas had ideas but it’s pretty obviously inaccurate to say that it was in any way “consistent.”

The Rise of Skywalker has no sense of plot or story but feels more like a game of darts. You can’t say that for the Prequels.

That’s actually exactly how I’d describe the prequels.

As misguided as TROS is, whatever George had come up with for the trilogy would have been 100% worse.

I don’t think it’s accurate to say the series is about tragedy. Overcoming tragedy, sure. The “Tragedy of Darth Vader” was always bogus, the films themselves never supported that framing. I don’t see how the ST changes the saga’s meaning in any way, adds on to it sure but it doesn’t really contradict anything.

Yes I had to do some color correction to make it match too (and added a bit of a digital tilt).

Yeah, it was uploaded in 4K though so when downloaded at that size and used in HD I’m not too worried about the quality.

I don’t think that’d be necessary, it’s new to the movie but not to the series. It’s not too hard to come up with similar examples, including Dagobah in ROTJ and this very planet in TLJ.

Hal 9000 said:

Where’d you pull the additional establishing shot of Ach-To from?

This video https://youtu.be/g_0lk8BY0Vk?t=219

Doing the right thing.

Hal 9000 said:

DominicCobb said:

What is the reasoning for removing the horses?

I guess feeling that they’re unnecessary and the ground attack feels more straightforward without them.

I don’t plan to remove them in my project, though.

Seems like a nice full circle nature vs. technology thing, plus its really the only “moment” that the battle has besides Lando and co. showing up.

What is the reasoning for removing the horses?

It’s a larger sense of belonging. Not just a desire for a family but to know her path and her destiny, what it means for her to suddenly have all this power. She’s hoping for some secret truth about her parents that will give her the answers, not just for who she is, but for what she should do. The answer is there’s no answer, and there’s no easy path for her to follow. It is up to her.

NeverarGreat said:

Pretty sure that neither Kylo nor Rey care for the Force Skype at the beginning, but by the middle of the film there is the beginning of a real romantic connection. Of course Kylo goes back to negging by the end of the film which causes Rey’s rejection but that’s not really what’s happening during the majority of their connection.

I’d actually argue that their connection until the Throne Room is much less problematic than either of the other part 2 romances in the Saga.

Pretty much.

I think their tension in TLJ is pretty obvious.

idir_hh said:

What can say, I loved it.
I’m sure Han and Leia’s romance could have been read as forced in the script but when translated on to the screen it became a life of it’s own.

I have no doubt the actors would have played it well but it’s a dumb idea regardless.

NeverarGreat said:

thebluefrog said:

NeverarGreat said:

thebluefrog said:

Frankly, they should’ve both just let Hamill and Ford et al. decide their characters’ fates.

Well, yes and no.

Yes, if you’re going for unchanging characters since the actors have inhabited these roles for years and know a whole lot about what makes these characters tick.

No, if you’re going for a continuation of a character arc like Hermit Luke. In this case it’s important for the writers to know what they’re doing.

Not at all. Harrison Ford, for example, wanted Han to die.

Does anyone think Han as Rebellion General was peak Solo?
Do they love him for his role as lapsed Smuggler?
Is he at all iconic as a failed father?

Harrison was right to want his character dead by the end of ROTJ.

Harrison only ever wanted a meaningful story for his character, and a meaningful death. He was robbed of both in ROTJ but got his wish in TFA.