Tobar said:

DominicCobb said:

Dek Rollins said:

My opinion is that the joke is funny, not that the film is bad. I don’t have an opinion of the film, though I do think the twelve year shoot is inherently pretentious if it isn’t good.

That’s a dumb thing to think. If it isn’t good it’s not pretension, it’s just a failed experiment.

Yeah. Whereas A Wrinkle in Time was both pretentious and a failed experiment. 😉

Listen man, I won’t deny that it was, essentially, a failure (though I’m not sure how it’s pretentious or experimental).

Dek Rollins said:

DominicCobb said:

Dek Rollins said:

My opinion is that the joke is funny, not that the film is bad. I don’t have an opinion of the film, though I do think the twelve year shoot is inherently pretentious if it isn’t good.

That’s a dumb thing to think. If it isn’t good it’s not pretension, it’s just a failed experiment.

I suppose you’re not wrong, I just find it pretentious in an attention grabbing sort of way. Look at me, I spent a long time shooting this movie, now give me oscars.

So anytime a filmmaker wants to experiment with the filmmaking process it’s pretentious and attention grabbing? You don’t think it’s an interesting concept at all?

As for “now give me Oscars,” that’s ridiculous. This kind of thing is right in Linklater’s wheelhouse and he never gets nor (I would presume at this point) expects Academy recognition.

Thing is, the movie is good.

Some beg to differ. But I won’t argue about the quality of the film since I ain’t seen it.

Exactly mfm’s initial point.

Dek Rollins said:

Dom didn’t nail it though. You have to go to the supermarket to buy a frozen pizza and then you have to take it home and cook it. The same applies at Murphy’s. The biggest difference is that you have to wait 60 seconds for them to build your pizza in front of you. It’s like they’re almost the same, but one actually tastes good.

No one goes to the supermarket when they want pizza, they go to an actual pizza place. Frozen pizza is a convenience because presumably you’ve already bought it when you were doing your grocery shopping, in which case if you want pizza you don’t have to leave your house at all.

The other advantage of frozen pizza is that it is much cheaper. I’m guessing Papa Murphy’s doesn’t sell at frozen pizza prices but I’m willing to be wrong.

Dek Rollins said:

My opinion is that the joke is funny, not that the film is bad. I don’t have an opinion of the film, though I do think the twelve year shoot is inherently pretentious if it isn’t good.

That’s a dumb thing to think. If it isn’t good it’s not pretension, it’s just a failed experiment.

Thing is, the movie is good.

Weird to base your opinions on a movie solely on some YouTube joke though.

Dek Rollins said:

DominicCobb said:

I’m trying to understand this Papa Murphy’s pizza, at first I thought it was a pizza chain restaurant, but now it sounds more like a Digiorno frozen pizza at the supermarket kinda deal?

It’s a take out pizza place. You go there and order a pizza, they build it out of fresh (not frozen) ingredients and then you take it home to bake in your home oven. It’s honestly not inconvenient at all.

Except you’re combining the inconveniences of having to go pick up the pizza from the pizza place with having to cook a frozen pizza yourself? Fucking weird. Do they also sell uncooked spaghetti and meatballs?

I’m trying to understand this Papa Murphy’s pizza, at first I thought it was a pizza chain restaurant, but now it sounds more like a Digiorno frozen pizza at the supermarket kinda deal?

TV’s Frink said:

DominicCobb said:

TV’s Frink said:

DominicCobb said:

Superman is still the better movie, though.

Maybe if you give a shit about Superman.

Batman is a more interesting movie with better acting and music and production design (and directing, maybe?..I’m not a film industry insider). I prefer Batman by a Gotham mile.

For the record, I think they’re about on par.

Which is to say, they’re both okay.

But you just said Superman is better so…?

…it is? I think it’s better, but I don’t think it’s that much better.

TV’s Frink said:

Handman said:

I don’t understand. Could you make a real argument?

How is that not a real argument. I thought you were saying the movie is flawed from a technical (movie-making) standpoint, but it turns out you don’t like the characters. Which is an personal opinion, and since I disagree, I said it’s an opinion which is flawed…in my opinion.

Characterization is important to a movie’s quality. Lumping that in with “Batman flaws” implies the issue has to do with relation to the source material, when it actually goes beyond that.

yhwx said:

DominicCobb said:

yhwx said:

No, it wasn’t a small portion of the American population. It was over sixty million people.

Which is a little under 20% of the American population. I consider 1/5 to be a small portion.

CatBus said:

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

He did win the 2016 election, he just wasn’t selected by the “American voters”. Whether the alternative is better or not is irrelevant.

Back to the original statement “Americans chose him” is even further from that - “American voters” - as only a small portion of the American population actually voted for him.

When you don’t vote, or vote third party, that in itself is a choice to let the other voters make the decision on your behalf. Plenty of eligible voters were so unhappy with both available choices in 2016, or so certain that the other voters would support their preferred candidate, that they entrusted other voters to make that decision for them. So while not all eligible voters cast a ballot, they all made a choice for either Trump or Clinton, in some manner or another, with the exception of those who were disenfranchised via some sort of voter suppression effort, or were physically unable to cast a ballot due to medical reasons, etc.

This is a much better argument than just telling me a number I already know.

Saying that it was just a small portion of the American population totally excuses you from having the necessary conversation of how America has fundamental problems that got us here.

That’s beside the initial point of whether electing a dumb fuck means you don’t deserve representation, but I’ll give you a pass as we’ve moved far beyond that by now.

Interesting speculations. In my mind this all goes back to the mindset of whether you’re open to new possibilities or not. Hyperspace has been ill-defined enough in this franchise for there to be a sort of gap in possibilities where this can happen. The fact that it’s never happened before doesn’t mean that makes this impossible, it just tells you what is possible with this power and what isn’t. So while before we had no idea if hyperspace could be weaponized, now we know it can be effective is specific situations, but presumably not a course of action worth exploring in other situations.

From my perspective, it’s not hard to see how the logic of this works. Honestly, it seems to me like you have to bend over backwards to try to be bothered be it, but if people want to, that’s up to them I suppose.

(as for Holdo’s fate, as I’ve said I’m pretty sure what happened here was the Raddus impacted with the Supremacy before it enter hyperspace.)

TV’s Frink said:

DominicCobb said:

Superman is still the better movie, though.

Maybe if you give a shit about Superman.

Batman is a more interesting movie with better acting and music and production design (and directing, maybe?..I’m not a film industry insider). I prefer Batman by a Gotham mile.

For the record, I think they’re about on par.

Which is to say, they’re both okay.

Both Superman and Batman actually do have a timeless quality to them, as both seem to evoke earlier eras in addition to current and futuristic elements.

Batman, however, features a lot of Prince music, which makes it seem dated. This is not a bad thing.

Superman is still the better movie, though.

Doubt the boss will get you that promotion when that sock is nasty as shit. More likely you’ll get fired first because he finds out you actually stole those socks.

Dek Rollins said:

ray_afraid said:

Dek Rollins said:

I haven’t seen it and I have no interest in it beyond mild curiousity.

But IT TOOK 12 YEARS TO MAAAAAAKE!! How can you just sit there not watching it!?

Exactly! That’s why I’m so excited to watch

BOYHOOD

Wow, hilarious.

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Makes sense to me that a ship would need to accelerate to the proverbial 88mph to punch a hole through realspace in order to enter hyperspace. *shrug*

This, especially when the visuals of going to hyperspace imply as much.

Also, people seem to think that this means TLJ is portraying hyperspeed is some kinda superpowerful attack method. But the way I saw it, the hyperspeed was just the fastest and most effective way to get the Raddus in contact with the Supremacy.

As long you don’t care about real life physics, which I 1000% don’t (and neither does Star Wars, nor has it ever, unless you’re referring to some EU hard sci-fi mumbo that has no place in this franchise), I’m honestly not sure why it’s an issue. I get if you’re super into science or whatever and you know that going to lightspeed can do all sorts of wacky stuff and that bothers you, but I don’t think it’s that hard to leave that at the door when you go to a fantasy film. As to this breaking established rules of the franchise, I still have yet to see anyone explain how this is the case, when they’ve literally explained next to nothing about how hyperspace works in the films.

But again, if you want to be bothered by something that shouldn’t reasonably be bothersome, go ahead.

I disagree. To me that’s a philosophy, where in fiction anything goes. So, it doesn’t matter, because fantasy doesn’t adhere to the real physics. However, imo to suspend disbelief fiction has to adhere to some set of rules, and be internally consistent. This is where I have a problem with TLJ on many fronts. In this instance, apart from the fact, that accelerating to lightspeed doesn’t make much physical sense,

By your own definition this shouldn’t be an issue. If Star Wars is fantasy, there should be no reason to not roll with the fact that ships need to accelerate into lightspeed, just like the Delorean (note that every time we see a ship go into lightspeed it looks like they are doing exactly this).

the hyperspace kamikaze proofs a hyperspace projectile is a much more powerful weapon than a torpedo, which begs the question why they are not widely used in the GFFA? The fact that any space battle in the GFFA would have been over in minutes with such weaponary, is bothersome to me, since the technology has been available for decades, and then I’ve not even mentioned the fact, that a kamikaze attack is pretty nonsensical in a universe with such advanced AI as the GFFA.

Like I said, I don’t think the hyperspace is the most important part of this equation. Colliding a ship the size of the Raddus would do a lot of damage no matter what, accelerating to hyperspeed was just the fastest and most efficient way to get it in contact with the Supremacy.

When you consider this, there’s not a single other time in these films where this would have been an effective strategy. Not only does the Raddus look like the biggest ship the Rebellion/Resistance has ever had, there was no point where completely wasting a capitol ship that size would have made any significant difference. The Death Star is pretty much the only time(s) they were trying to take down something big like the Supremacy, but the Death Stars were so big that ramming a ship through them at lightspeed wouldn’t do close to the damage shown done to the Supremacy, and I’d imagine the station would probably be back up and running in a week.

You don’t need a ship like the Raddus. An object the size of a football would have the same impact as detonating a nuclear bomb. An unmanned ship or torpedo the size of an X-wing would to tremendous damage equivalent to dropping a thousand nukes. I think the Death Star would be out of commission permanently, especially if such an attack would be directed at the disk.

Weird that apparently like RJ, you’re trying to have your cake and eat it too. So do you care about real life physics in Star Wars, or not? If you actually only care about consistent in-universe logic as you claim, then this is not an issue. Never before have we seen an object collide via hyperspeed in Star Wars.

In my opinion, it is not reasonable to expect Star Wars to follow the actual laws of physics in every regard, so therefore it is not reasonable to expect Star Wars to follow the laws of physics in regard to lightspeed collision (why this and not the other things it gets wrong?).

Considering TLJ is the first instance of a lightspeed collision, this is where Star Wars is establishing its physics for a lightspeed collision. And in its version, a lightspeed collision clearly does not have the power of “a thousand nukes” or maybe even one nuke.

It clearly has the power of conventional GFFA weapons many times over. The Raddus cut through the Supremacy like butter, which is a ship the size of width of 20 km or 1/6 the size of the Death Star. So, the film itself depicts the energy released as equivalent to the power of many conventional weapons, which in themselves seem quite a bit more powerful than the weapons on planet earth. Hence, the only logical conclusion is, that a hyperspace collision in the GFFA as depicted by TLJ has the power of many nukes.

We see it slice through the wing of the Supremacy, but the majority of the ship is left more or less in tact (though probably out of commission). Considering, as you say, the Supremacy is 1/6 the size of the Death Star, it is not unreasonable to suppose that it might not cause a significant enough damage to be viable method of attack on that station.

As for having the greatest power of any GFFA weapon, sure, but again this is a massive ship we’re talking about, the biggest that’s ever been shown in the Rebel fleet. It is not unreasonable to assume that an X-wing kamikaze-ing at lightspeed into the Supremacy wouldn’t have done nearly the same damage.

I don’t even think Boyhood was that much better than Birdman, I just think Birdman shouldn’t have won.

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Makes sense to me that a ship would need to accelerate to the proverbial 88mph to punch a hole through realspace in order to enter hyperspace. *shrug*

This, especially when the visuals of going to hyperspace imply as much.

Also, people seem to think that this means TLJ is portraying hyperspeed is some kinda superpowerful attack method. But the way I saw it, the hyperspeed was just the fastest and most effective way to get the Raddus in contact with the Supremacy.

As long you don’t care about real life physics, which I 1000% don’t (and neither does Star Wars, nor has it ever, unless you’re referring to some EU hard sci-fi mumbo that has no place in this franchise), I’m honestly not sure why it’s an issue. I get if you’re super into science or whatever and you know that going to lightspeed can do all sorts of wacky stuff and that bothers you, but I don’t think it’s that hard to leave that at the door when you go to a fantasy film. As to this breaking established rules of the franchise, I still have yet to see anyone explain how this is the case, when they’ve literally explained next to nothing about how hyperspace works in the films.

But again, if you want to be bothered by something that shouldn’t reasonably be bothersome, go ahead.

I disagree. To me that’s a philosophy, where in fiction anything goes. So, it doesn’t matter, because fantasy doesn’t adhere to the real physics. However, imo to suspend disbelief fiction has to adhere to some set of rules, and be internally consistent. This is where I have a problem with TLJ on many fronts. In this instance, apart from the fact, that accelerating to lightspeed doesn’t make much physical sense,

By your own definition this shouldn’t be an issue. If Star Wars is fantasy, there should be no reason to not roll with the fact that ships need to accelerate into lightspeed, just like the Delorean (note that every time we see a ship go into lightspeed it looks like they are doing exactly this).

the hyperspace kamikaze proofs a hyperspace projectile is a much more powerful weapon than a torpedo, which begs the question why they are not widely used in the GFFA? The fact that any space battle in the GFFA would have been over in minutes with such weaponary, is bothersome to me, since the technology has been available for decades, and then I’ve not even mentioned the fact, that a kamikaze attack is pretty nonsensical in a universe with such advanced AI as the GFFA.

Like I said, I don’t think the hyperspace is the most important part of this equation. Colliding a ship the size of the Raddus would do a lot of damage no matter what, accelerating to hyperspeed was just the fastest and most efficient way to get it in contact with the Supremacy.

When you consider this, there’s not a single other time in these films where this would have been an effective strategy. Not only does the Raddus look like the biggest ship the Rebellion/Resistance has ever had, there was no point where completely wasting a capitol ship that size would have made any significant difference. The Death Star is pretty much the only time(s) they were trying to take down something big like the Supremacy, but the Death Stars were so big that ramming a ship through them at lightspeed wouldn’t do close to the damage shown done to the Supremacy, and I’d imagine the station would probably be back up and running in a week.

You don’t need a ship like the Raddus. An object the size of a football would have the same impact as detonating a nuclear bomb. An unmanned ship or torpedo the size of an X-wing would to tremendous damage equivalent to dropping a thousand nukes. I think the Death Star would be out of commission permanently, especially if such an attack would be directed at the disk.

Weird that apparently like RJ, you’re trying to have your cake and eat it too. So do you care about real life physics in Star Wars, or not? If you actually only care about consistent in-universe logic as you claim, then this is not an issue. Never before have we seen an object collide via hyperspeed in Star Wars.

In my opinion, it is not reasonable to expect Star Wars to follow the actual laws of physics in every regard, so therefore it is not reasonable to expect Star Wars to follow the laws of physics in regard to lightspeed collision (why this and not the other things it gets wrong?).

Considering TLJ is the first instance of a lightspeed collision, this is where Star Wars is establishing its physics for a lightspeed collision. And in its version, a lightspeed collision clearly does not have the power of “a thousand nukes” or maybe even one nuke.

DrDre said:

TV’s Frink said:

DrDre said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Makes sense to me that a ship would need to accelerate to the proverbial 88mph to punch a hole through realspace in order to enter hyperspace. *shrug*

But 88mph is a normal speed, and it’s completely evident from TLJ, that the Supremacy was hit at a much greater speed than normal speed, and the ship was accelerating to lightspeed, which is a contradiction in terms.

So the only two options are 88mph and lightspeed? There’s nothing in-between?

No, there’s normal speed driven by normal engines with normal physical limits, and there’s lightspeed for which you need a hyperdrive. The former is normal motion in real space, while lightspeed is achieved in another dimension called hyperspace. The idea of achieving lightspeed or entering hyperspace by accelarating to an unphysically high speed in normal space is as preposterous to me as saying a man can fly by running really fast while flapping his arms.

Is it as preposterous as sound in space, fire in space, laser bolts instead of laser beams, every planet in the galaxy having breathable air and Earth-like gravity, an asteroid field having densely packed asteroids, an asteroid having Earth-like gravity, a million other things I can’t think of off the top of my head, oh and also the ability to lift objects with your mind?

yhwx said:

No, it wasn’t a small portion of the American population. It was over sixty million people.

Which is a little under 20% of the American population. I consider 1/5 to be a small portion.

CatBus said:

DominicCobb said:

moviefreakedmind said:

He did win the 2016 election, he just wasn’t selected by the “American voters”. Whether the alternative is better or not is irrelevant.

Back to the original statement “Americans chose him” is even further from that - “American voters” - as only a small portion of the American population actually voted for him.

When you don’t vote, or vote third party, that in itself is a choice to let the other voters make the decision on your behalf. Plenty of eligible voters were so unhappy with both available choices in 2016, or so certain that the other voters would support their preferred candidate, that they entrusted other voters to make that decision for them. So while not all eligible voters cast a ballot, they all made a choice for either Trump or Clinton, in some manner or another, with the exception of those who were disenfranchised via some sort of voter suppression effort, or were physically unable to cast a ballot due to medical reasons, etc.

This is a much better argument than just telling me a number I already know.

Handman said:

I’m glad it won Best Picture over Boyhood.

I’m not.

TV’s Frink said:

DrDre said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Makes sense to me that a ship would need to accelerate to the proverbial 88mph to punch a hole through realspace in order to enter hyperspace. *shrug*

But 88mph is a normal speed, and it’s completely evident from TLJ, that the Supremacy was hit at a much greater speed than normal speed, and the ship was accelerating to lightspeed, which is a contradiction in terms.

So the only two options are 88mph and lightspeed? There’s nothing in-between?

Apparently not in real life physics bud, and therefore never in fantasy movies if I already dislike them.

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Makes sense to me that a ship would need to accelerate to the proverbial 88mph to punch a hole through realspace in order to enter hyperspace. *shrug*

This, especially when the visuals of going to hyperspace imply as much.

Also, people seem to think that this means TLJ is portraying hyperspeed is some kinda superpowerful attack method. But the way I saw it, the hyperspeed was just the fastest and most effective way to get the Raddus in contact with the Supremacy.

As long you don’t care about real life physics, which I 1000% don’t (and neither does Star Wars, nor has it ever, unless you’re referring to some EU hard sci-fi mumbo that has no place in this franchise), I’m honestly not sure why it’s an issue. I get if you’re super into science or whatever and you know that going to lightspeed can do all sorts of wacky stuff and that bothers you, but I don’t think it’s that hard to leave that at the door when you go to a fantasy film. As to this breaking established rules of the franchise, I still have yet to see anyone explain how this is the case, when they’ve literally explained next to nothing about how hyperspace works in the films.

But again, if you want to be bothered by something that shouldn’t reasonably be bothersome, go ahead.

I disagree. To me that’s a philosophy, where in fiction anything goes. So, it doesn’t matter, because fantasy doesn’t adhere to the real physics. However, imo to suspend disbelief fiction has to adhere to some set of rules, and be internally consistent. This is where I have a problem with TLJ on many fronts. In this instance, apart from the fact, that accelerating to lightspeed doesn’t make much physical sense,

By your own definition this shouldn’t be an issue. If Star Wars is fantasy, there should be no reason to not roll with the fact that ships need to accelerate into lightspeed, just like the Delorean (note that every time we see a ship go into lightspeed it looks like they are doing exactly this).

the hyperspace kamikaze proofs a hyperspace projectile is a much more powerful weapon than a torpedo, which begs the question why they are not widely used in the GFFA? The fact that any space battle in the GFFA would have been over in minutes with such weaponary, is bothersome to me, since the technology has been available for decades, and then I’ve not even mentioned the fact, that a kamikaze attack is pretty nonsensical in a universe with such advanced AI as the GFFA.

Like I said, I don’t think the hyperspace is the most important part of this equation. Colliding a ship the size of the Raddus would do a lot of damage no matter what, accelerating to hyperspeed was just the fastest and most efficient way to get it in contact with the Supremacy.

When you consider this, there’s not a single other time in these films where this would have been an effective strategy. Not only does the Raddus look like the biggest ship the Rebellion/Resistance has ever had, there was no point where completely wasting a capitol ship that size would have made any significant difference. The Death Star is pretty much the only time(s) they were trying to take down something big like the Supremacy, but the Death Stars were so big that ramming a ship through them at lightspeed wouldn’t do close to the damage shown done to the Supremacy, and I’d imagine the station would probably be back up and running in a week.

moviefreakedmind said:

He did win the 2016 election, he just wasn’t selected by the “American voters”. Whether the alternative is better or not is irrelevant.

Back to the original statement “Americans chose him” is even further from that - “American voters” - as only a small portion of the American population actually voted for him.

Going back even further to saying DC doesn’t deserve representation for electing one anti-semite, I assume this was a joke, but to be clear there are states that have elected far worse.

ChainsawAsh said:

Makes sense to me that a ship would need to accelerate to the proverbial 88mph to punch a hole through realspace in order to enter hyperspace. *shrug*

This, especially when the visuals of going to hyperspace imply as much.

Also, people seem to think that this means TLJ is portraying hyperspeed is some kinda superpowerful attack method. But the way I saw it, the hyperspeed was just the fastest and most effective way to get the Raddus in contact with the Supremacy.

As long you don’t care about real life physics, which I 1000% don’t (and neither does Star Wars, nor has it ever, unless you’re referring to some EU hard sci-fi mumbo that has no place in this franchise), I’m honestly not sure why it’s an issue. I get if you’re super into science or whatever and you know that going to lightspeed can do all sorts of wacky stuff and that bothers you, but I don’t think it’s that hard to leave that at the door when you go to a fantasy film. As to this breaking established rules of the franchise, I still have yet to see anyone explain how this is the case, when they’ve literally explained next to nothing about how hyperspace works in the films.

But again, if you want to be bothered by something that shouldn’t reasonably be bothersome, go ahead.