DominicCobb

Handman said:

The Manchurian Candidate

SO good!!

Yup! A favorite of mine.

Tobar said:

DominicCobb said:

Mocata said:

Lando should have been in this trilogy from the start.

Nah

Well that doesn’t sound very inclusive.

Mocata said:

I totally expected Carrie to be back in one form or another. Personally I think it’s cool, there’s no need to have real life tragedy influence the story out of pure convenience.

There is a need, and it’s not just convenience. It’s honestly fantastic they’ve found some way to include her, but there’s literally no way they’d be able to do exactly what they wanted with Leia without Carrie alive (beyond recasting, which would have made a lot of people angry).

Mocata said:

Lando should have been in this trilogy from the start.

Nah

fmalover said:

DominicCobb said:

Only slight disappointment for me is that Dan Mindel is back as the DP. Not that I didn’t like his work on TFA (quite the opposite), but I thought it’d be cool to have a different look for each film. Though I’m quite glad Rick Carter is back as co-production designer.

Apart from TFA being total garbage, I think Dan Mindel did a piss-poor job as DP in TFA, and even though the movie was shot on film it doesn’t look like it. Steve Yedlin on the other hand did a masterful job with TLJ and it’s a real shame he didn’t stick around for Episode IX. Then again JJ Abrams is back as director and co-writer, so I fully expect Ep. IX to be another botch job.

Well I obviously disagree on Mindel, though an Abrams/Yedlin combo would’ve been interesting to see.

dahmage said:

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/here-here-vs-hear-hear/

Please educate yourselves.

I figured this out recently. It’s especially tricky because if you try to think it through, either spelling could make sense for the phrase - “hear (this), hear (this)!” vs. “(listen) here, (listen) here!” Looking it up is basically the only way to know for sure.

SilverWook said:

They know fans will be spying on the studio once production begins. We live in an era where drones are flown over the outdoor sets. The cat would be out of the bag the moment Mark or Billy Dee are spotted anywhere in England next month anyway.

Yeah, which is why the Carrie news is the bigger surprise to me. They could have kept that under wraps until opening day.

Perhaps they just wanted to get in front of viewers and make clear it’s unreleased footage, not CGI (I guess they only have themselves to blame for any assumptions about the latter).

I’m honestly pretty surprised that they have unused footage that’s usable, but possibly even more surprised that they’re telling us now and not keeping it a secret - same for Mark Hamill’s return (although I suppose everyone was already suspecting that). Good news all around either way (also nice to see Billie get a mention, hopefully her role will be yet again bigger this time).

I’m truly quite curious what Carrie footage they actually have. Thankfully for them they’ve been fairly mysterious about some of the stuff that got cut out of that film so we won’t necessarily just be seeing deleted scenes we’ve already seen (although that’s certainly possible). Beyond the two scenes released on home video, the only other scene we really know about is what was briefly shown in the trailer (Maz handing her the lightsaber). If I had to guess it’ll just turn out to be a really brief appearance.

Curious about who the two new characters are. Good bets if they’re announced now they’re probably not bit players.

Only slight disappointment for me is that Dan Mindel is back as the DP. Not that I didn’t like his work on TFA (quite the opposite), but I thought it’d be cool to have a different look for each film. Though I’m quite glad Rick Carter is back as co-production designer.

Finn’s attempted sacrifice was absolutely meaningful to his character. Finn’s hated the FO since the moment we first saw him, that was never his problem; it was always whether he’d run away or stand and fight. Rose’s actions don’t change or take away from that in any way at all. Finn’s heart is now in the right place regardless. Rose is just giving him some clarification and really his next lesson (it’s about more than just standing and fighting).

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

NeverarGreat said:

If Poe had said something along the lines of ‘Retreat, nothing can stop it now!’, then it would have been clear that Finn was acting out of pure unthinking hatred for the First Order.

“The cannon is charged, it’s a suicide run! All craft, pull away!”
“Retreat, Finn! That’s an order.”
“Finn? It’s too late!”

That doesn’t imply a suicide run could not be successful. It might only imply Poe is not willing to sacrifice the few people they have left. Additionally unlike Poe Finn knows the technology, and obviously feels he has a chance of taking out the weapon.

Dre, come on man. Do you like having the same argument over and over? Because I don’t, I really really don’t. I mean I guess I was asking for it here, but I was trying to demonstrate a separate and specific point (i.e. what NeverarGreat personally thought would clarify the scene for him is basically already there in slightly different wording).

No, because NeverarGreat used the words “nothing can stop it now”. This is not implied in the movie. In fact the movie sets up Finn as th expert knowing about the miniature Death Star tech. It’s not me adding confusion to the intentions of the scene. It’s the movie.

It’s you interpreting it the wrong way because you don’t like the movie. Simple as that really. Obviously you can turn the table and say I’m just doing the reverse. Difference is the intention of the scene is clearly the way I’m interpreting it. And you can’t just ignore that.

The problem being, and this kinda goes back to what I was saying earlier today, is that no one is criticizing this movie on its own terms, they’re making terms up. The more reasonable critique here would be “they didn’t make it clear enough in this scene that Finn wasn’t going to make it.” Instead people hyperbolize and act as if the alternate interpretation was the intented one, and criticize it on those terms. So the critique goes from the reasoned “clarity problems” to the downright outlandish “Rose is a terrible character because she doomed the Resistance and ruined Finn’s heroism,” which is a critique that (in my opinion) has little relevance to what’s actually going on with the mechanics of this story.

To clarify my own post here, I think NeverarGreat was making an argument on that more reasonable side.

I know what the intention of the scene is, and I’m saying exactly what you say, I should say, namely that it is poorly executed. Because of this the scene may be confusing to some, as are the character’s motivations. Just because you and I understand RJ’s intentions doesn’t make it so for everyone else, nor does it imply it is reflected well in the film, or that other interpretations are not possible.

To be clear, I’m not saying you’re not saying that. I was speaking in broader terms.

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

NeverarGreat said:

If Poe had said something along the lines of ‘Retreat, nothing can stop it now!’, then it would have been clear that Finn was acting out of pure unthinking hatred for the First Order.

“The cannon is charged, it’s a suicide run! All craft, pull away!”
“Retreat, Finn! That’s an order.”
“Finn? It’s too late!”

That doesn’t imply a suicide run could not be successful. It might only imply Poe is not willing to sacrifice the few people they have left. Additionally unlike Poe Finn knows the technology, and obviously feels he has a chance of taking out the weapon.

Dre, come on man. Do you like having the same argument over and over? Because I don’t, I really really don’t. I mean I guess I was asking for it here, but I was trying to demonstrate a separate and specific point (i.e. what NeverarGreat personally thought would clarify the scene for him is basically already there in slightly different wording).

No, because NeverarGreat used the words “nothing can stop it now”. This is not implied in the movie. In fact the movie sets up Finn as th expert knowing about the miniature Death Star tech. It’s not me adding confusion to the intentions of the scene. It’s the movie.

It’s you interpreting it the wrong way because you don’t like the movie. Simple as that really. Obviously you can turn the table and say I’m just doing the reverse. Difference is the intention of the scene is clearly the way I’m interpreting it. And you can’t just ignore that.

The problem being, and this kinda goes back to what I was saying earlier today, is that no one is criticizing this movie on its own terms, they’re making terms up. The more reasonable critique here would be “they didn’t make it clear enough in this scene that Finn wasn’t going to make it.” Instead people hyperbolize and act as if the alternate interpretation was the intented one, and criticize it on those terms. So the critique goes from the reasoned “clarity problems” to the downright outlandish “Rose is a terrible character because she doomed the Resistance and ruined Finn’s heroism,” which is a critique that (in my opinion) has little relevance to what’s actually going on with the mechanics of this story.

To clarify my own post here, I think NeverarGreat was making an argument on that more reasonable side.

DrDre said:

DominicCobb said:

NeverarGreat said:

If Poe had said something along the lines of ‘Retreat, nothing can stop it now!’, then it would have been clear that Finn was acting out of pure unthinking hatred for the First Order.

“The cannon is charged, it’s a suicide run! All craft, pull away!”
“Retreat, Finn! That’s an order.”
“Finn? It’s too late!”

That doesn’t imply a suicide run could not be successful. It might only imply Poe is not willing to sacrifice the few people they have left. Additionally unlike Poe Finn knows the technology, and obviously feels he has a chance of taking out the weapon.

Dre, come on man. Do you like having the same argument over and over? Because I don’t, I really really don’t. I mean I guess I was asking for it here, but I was trying to demonstrate a separate and specific point (i.e. what NeverarGreat personally thought would clarify the scene for him is basically already there in slightly different wording).

NeverarGreat said:

If Poe had said something along the lines of ‘Retreat, nothing can stop it now!’, then it would have been clear that Finn was acting out of pure unthinking hatred for the First Order.

“The cannon is charged, it’s a suicide run! All craft, pull away!”
“Retreat, Finn! That’s an order.”
“Finn? It’s too late!”

TLJ doesn’t hand-hold. Personally I’m not a big fan of on-the-nose dialogue so I tend to think that’s a plus. Whether something fits a different interpretation if you look at it crooked shouldn’t matter if the intended interpretation is clear, which it absolutely is in every commonly disputed case across the movie.

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

dahmage said:

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Everyone’s favorite scene in TLJ was when Leia gave Rey a medal that said “Best Jedi Ever.” Truly amazing moment.

yeah because that’s exactly what i meant

Well then I guess I have no idea what you meant, like usual.

Are you kidding? Sometimes it’s like you people don’t want to even acknowledge the other side of something despite Collipso being pretty darn clear.

It becomes less and less fun coming to this part of the forum when it feels like an echo chamber of shutting down criticism of the ST.

Equally frustrating for us on the other side who see people repeatedly saying the same tiring stuff that has little actual connection to the film I know we’ve all seen. I would write out a well reasoned refutation to Collipso’s post, but I’ve already done that many many times, and at this point it’s starting to feel like I’m just talking to a brick wall with some people on here refusing to criticize the movie on its own terms and instead parroting the same old no matter what I say. The echo chamber comment has no basis in reality.

No, what you’re encountering is people who have a different take on the film and an opinion that’s different from yours. Your mistake is in thinking that your interpretation is the “correct” one and that it only takes a bit of logic to get others to agree with your perspective.

I have no desire to convince you that I’m right. I just like arguing about this stuff. Some of us accept that the debate will never end and continue arguing anyway because that’s what angsty nerds do.

If you want to state your opinion (because that’s all any of this is—opinion) without rebuttal, write a blog post and turn the comments off.

It’s not about convincing people I’m “right.” It’s about actually debating the film on its own terms and not making up stuff/imaging things and misplacing focus on irrelevant factors.

I don’t think TLJ is a perfect film by any means. But I’ve yet to see much of anyone on this site actually address the film in a critical manner that makes any sense.

To you. Again, your opinion.

Sure.

I guess my mistake is going to discuss a SW film on a SW forum and expecting something resembling critiquing the film from its perspective as a film and not just fans getting bent out of shape solely about its place in the canon.

TLJ doesn’t exist in a vacuum; it’s part of the Star Wars universe. It doesn’t get to exist and be critiqued solely on its own terms. I think this is partly why it’s so divisive. Johnson made something that not everyone thinks fits properly into the universe and some of us aren’t as forgiving of that.

Well I don’t have anything to “forgive” in that regard anyway, what I think is the issue is a) people being too concerned as to whether the film fits their preconceived notions that they fail to accept the possibility of anything new, and b) people trying to fit squares into round holes when it comes to analyzing new elements in comparison to old ones.

Jay said:

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

dahmage said:

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Everyone’s favorite scene in TLJ was when Leia gave Rey a medal that said “Best Jedi Ever.” Truly amazing moment.

yeah because that’s exactly what i meant

Well then I guess I have no idea what you meant, like usual.

Are you kidding? Sometimes it’s like you people don’t want to even acknowledge the other side of something despite Collipso being pretty darn clear.

It becomes less and less fun coming to this part of the forum when it feels like an echo chamber of shutting down criticism of the ST.

Equally frustrating for us on the other side who see people repeatedly saying the same tiring stuff that has little actual connection to the film I know we’ve all seen. I would write out a well reasoned refutation to Collipso’s post, but I’ve already done that many many times, and at this point it’s starting to feel like I’m just talking to a brick wall with some people on here refusing to criticize the movie on its own terms and instead parroting the same old no matter what I say. The echo chamber comment has no basis in reality.

No, what you’re encountering is people who have a different take on the film and an opinion that’s different from yours. Your mistake is in thinking that your interpretation is the “correct” one and that it only takes a bit of logic to get others to agree with your perspective.

I have no desire to convince you that I’m right. I just like arguing about this stuff. Some of us accept that the debate will never end and continue arguing anyway because that’s what angsty nerds do.

If you want to state your opinion (because that’s all any of this is—opinion) without rebuttal, write a blog post and turn the comments off.

It’s not about convincing people I’m “right.” It’s about actually debating the film on its own terms and not making up stuff/imaging things and misplacing focus on irrelevant factors.

I don’t think TLJ is a perfect film by any means. But I’ve yet to see much of anyone on this site actually address the film in a critical manner that makes any sense. I guess my mistake is going to discuss a SW film on a SW forum and expecting something resembling critiquing the film from its perspective as a film and not just fans getting bent out of shape solely about its place in the canon.

Jay said:

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Everyone’s favorite scene in TLJ was when Leia gave Rey a medal that said “Best Jedi Ever.” Truly amazing moment.

yeah because that’s exactly what i meant

Well then I guess I have no idea what you meant, like usual.

Are you kidding? Sometimes it’s like you people don’t want to even acknowledge the other side of something despite Collipso being pretty darn clear.

It’s deliberate and it’s annoying. Just shitposting, really.

I only shitpost in response to a shitpost.

darthrush said:

dahmage said:

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Everyone’s favorite scene in TLJ was when Leia gave Rey a medal that said “Best Jedi Ever.” Truly amazing moment.

yeah because that’s exactly what i meant

Well then I guess I have no idea what you meant, like usual.

Are you kidding? Sometimes it’s like you people don’t want to even acknowledge the other side of something despite Collipso being pretty darn clear.

It becomes less and less fun coming to this part of the forum when it feels like an echo chamber of shutting down criticism of the ST.

Equally frustrating for us on the other side who see people repeatedly saying the same tiring stuff that has little actual connection to the film I know we’ve all seen. I would write out a well reasoned refutation to Collipso’s post, but I’ve already done that many many times, and at this point it’s starting to feel like I’m just talking to a brick wall with some people on here refusing to criticize the movie on its own terms and instead parroting the same old no matter what I say. The echo chamber comment has no basis in reality.

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

Everyone’s favorite scene in TLJ was when Leia gave Rey a medal that said “Best Jedi Ever.” Truly amazing moment.

yeah because that’s exactly what i meant

Glad we’re on the same page then.

Everyone’s favorite scene in TLJ was when Leia gave Rey a medal that said “Best Jedi Ever.” Truly amazing moment.

Handman said:

Well, as the old saying goes, you should avoid talking about religion, politics, and sex.

I guess that means, with religion and politics out of the picture, that just leaves sex.

No offense, but you guys aren’t exactly the ones I go to to talk about that kinda stuff.

So, basically

TV’s Frink said:

Please don’t.

Dek Rollins said:

Possessed said:

yes Dom you may join me in the woods.

*Ash

FINE I don’t like the woods anyway

Just got a few new Criterion BDs - The Manchurian Candidate, Scanners, and Mulholland Dr. Gotta love that Barnes & Noble 50% off deal.

That means my somewhat measly Blu-ray Criterion collection thus far is

• Seven Samurai
• The Samurai trilogy
• Throne of Blood
• The Seventh Seal
• The Hidden Fortress
• The Manchurian Candidate
• Tokyo Drifter
• Scanners
• Mulholland Dr.

I only have one Criterion DVD, The Rock.

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

The Graduate

Second viewing. First probably 5 years ago.

Enjoyed it, but not the wow factor I remember from the first time (I remembered very little of the plot going in).

The score was fantastic, of course.

That reminds me I meant to pick up the Criterion of that this past weekend. Somehow I ended up with Mulholland Dr. instead (not complaining).

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

Frink, if men who are hetero feel fooled or “trapped” by being attracted to biological men who dress like women, then that’s their prerogative. You can’t tell them to not feel that way or not be appalled when they encounter it.

They ought not to be mean, certainly, but they shouldn’t be chastised for feeling disgusted in such an obviously socking circumstance.

Uhhhhhhh… wow

What?? We’re human. If people feel uncomfortable about whatever it is, they should be allowed to be uncomfortable. If you’re going to be inclusive, you shouldn’t get to cherry-pick who you include or tell people they can’t have feelings that they do.

Such people shouldn’t use said feelings as motivation to mock or humiliate others, but they still should be allowed to feel uncomfortable if they so choose.

Let’s just say there’s a difference between simply feeling uncomfortable and being “disgusted” that someone has supposedly “tricked” you.

chyron8472 said:

Frink, if men who are hetero feel fooled or “trapped” by being attracted to biological men who dress like women, then that’s their prerogative. You can’t tell them to not feel that way or not be appalled when they encounter it.

They ought not to be mean, certainly, but they shouldn’t be chastised for feeling disgusted in such an obviously socking circumstance.

Uhhhhhhh… wow

Possessed said:

But is it so egregious one isn’t even allowed to ask what it means if one doesn’t know?..

Like I said I don’t know either, but even then the issue seems clear on the face of it.