DominicCobb

DrDre said:

dahmage said:

DrDre said:

It seems the Resistance trailer has not been recieved very well. The like/dislike ratio is 1:2 on youtube. Compare this to the 30:1 ratio for the upcoming Clone Wars season.

I doubt if those clicking like and dislike on YouTube are actually the Target demographic. I wouldn’t worry about it.

Shouldn’t the target demographic be in bed at 10pm? The time it is being broadcast seems to suggest LFM is not aiming this solely at children, although the trailer certainly has somewhat of a childish tone.

No Star Wars show is just for kids. But premiering it at 10 doesn’t magically mean it’s not primarily for kids, which it obviously is.

SilverWook said:

I could have sworn we discussed this several pages back? Contract haggling is nothing new in Hollywood. Maybe they’ll drop the idea of bringing Kirk’s Dad back, which the studio only cares about since Hemsworth is a big star now. Give the time travel shenanigans a rest for once.
Unless Q drops in and gives Kirk a chance to save his father, oh wait, they’ve done that before. 😉

At this point it could be more cost effective to pay up for Hemsworth than to scrap the script and come up with something else.

dahmage said:

DominicCobb said:

Collipso said:

ChainsawAsh said:

I’m hoping this is all from the first episode, though. If not, this show is going to get very bland, very quickly - I want to see some variation in locations and visuals rather than everything being bright, pastel, and on a water planet…

i agree. one of Rebels’ main flaws was how much Lothal there was.

Almost definitely a budget thing. I did like Rebels more focused scope though. The bigger issue was that most of the other planets they visited were often quite boring. Again, though, budgets.

From what I’ve seen of the universe most planets are boring.

Even though it is a bigger issue it is still a very minor one.

Collipso said:

ChainsawAsh said:

I’m hoping this is all from the first episode, though. If not, this show is going to get very bland, very quickly - I want to see some variation in locations and visuals rather than everything being bright, pastel, and on a water planet…

i agree. one of Rebels’ main flaws was how much Lothal there was.

Almost definitely a budget thing. I did like Rebels more focused scope though. The bigger issue was that most of the other planets they visited were often quite boring. Again, though, budgets.

pittrek said:

DominicCobb said:

pittrek said:

DominicCobb said:

I will say anyone who doesn’t think AOTC is the worst prequel (or the worst SW movie as a whole) is a fucking lunatic.

Wow. Thanks, I guess.

I will say I’m willing to hear an argument before I pass final lunatic status. But it’s not looking good for you.

I don’t remember insulting people who like TLJ, which is in my opinion the worst SW movie, and the worst movie I have seen in years, but OK. But what kind of “argument” you want to hear? There is nothing objectively quantifiable about opinions. I personally can’t take seriously anything which looks like a video game. Hell I’ve seen video games which look more realistic than this “movie”. If you can’t get “absorbed” in the movie, you will immediately start to notice different things. Like the acting, where you can clearly see the actors are doing it because they are contractually obligated to do so and not because they care. The story is much worse than in AOTC, it’s just a collection of random scenes followed by what seems to be a 10 hour long boring duel. Which reminds me - the editing. The scenes just come and go, most of them don’t have any beginning, middle or an end. Enough or should I continue? As I said the only positive thing I can say about this movie is that the score is great as every thing Williams ever did.

First of all, calm your shit, it’s a joke. Second of all, we’re not talking about TLJ, I’m asking how you think AOTC is better. I’m genuinely curious. That’s not a lot to ask for.

I assume you’re talking about ROTS? Just strange to me because I would say literally the same things about AOTC (besides the long duel). What makes me so curious about your opinion is that AOTC and ROTS are bad in basically all the same ways so it’s weird for me to hear someone like one and hate the other.

ZkinandBonez said:

DominicCobb said:

ZkinandBonez said:

DominicCobb said:

It’s interesting seeing people say that TPM looked “the most like Star Wars.” Certainly in terms of shooting on film, less CGI overall and more practical effects and real locations it looks more like SW than the other two. But in terms of designs I’m not entirely sure I agree. They definitely had some leeway with the film’s setting being years before and on some different worlds, but I think in some areas things definitely went too far afield and look like they’re from a different franchise altogether.

Well, I was more going for the over-all “feel” of the film, not necessarily specific designs.

I’ve learned to really appreciate the designs in the PT in the last few years, and I actually think it’s a good thing that the PT looks very different from the OT. I even thinks it makes sense for it to feel different too, which is why I like ROTS, though I don’t complain when they do feel OT-like either.

As for straying too far from the OT designs/feel, I personally think AOTC, and to a lesser degree ROTS, are the biggest sinners there. I’m curious about what things in particular from TPM you’re referring to. I always felt that TPM balanced new and old concepts really well.

The ship, set, and costume designs in general are too ornate and (on the whole) lack the rugged, lived-in and (most importantly) utilitarian feel of the OT. Even if they are justified in universe because of the film’s areas of interest (rich Naboo and Coruscant), it just doesn’t feel quite right for a SW film to have that kind of stuff as a primary focus. If the out-there designs weren’t so abundant, it probably wouldn’t feel like a problem to me.

But that’s not all of it. Pretty much all CG aliens in the film look silly and out of place. Not to mention the Gungans and their underwater city, which straddles a line between somewhat inspired and just plain wacky.

I will say I’m a fan of the battle droids. I probably would’ve preferred them a tad bulkier but they look pretty good.

That’s interesting, I’ve personally always felt that the Gungan City was one of the most Star Wars-y things in the PT. It’s like a cross between the basic ideas behind Cloud City and the Ewok village. One of the biggest problems for me with the whole idea of an “OT aesthetic” is that we never really saw that much of the galaxy in those movies, only a tiny, tiny glimpse of it. Tatooine, Hoth and Endor hardly gave us a real sense of what the rest of the galaxy might look like. The shiny-ness and elegance of Cloud City, which btw is supposed to be a small mining operation, always justified the look of Coruscant (and the “fancier” PT locales) to me. Though I do agree that some of the designs are way too fancy. I especially think Kamino looks very out of place compared to both trilogies.

As I sort of alluded to, I’m love/hate with Otoh Gunga. Certain things I really like about it. A simple way to sum up might be that I like the exterior, but not the interior.

I have no problem with the films forging a path beyond the OT, it wouldn’t make sense not too. I just feel like in some respects they should have hewn closer. Like I said, it’s more the abundance of it that’s a problem for me.

As for Kamino, I have similar thoughts with the underwater city. On the whole I kind of like it, but certain things (those chairs, some of the interior doors, the Kaminoans themselves) are just kinda wacky. The CG doesn’t help.

The way I see it the PT is supposed to be a “fall of Rome” kind of story, as opposed to the gritty, 1970’s, WWII influenced interpretation of sci-fi vibe that we associate with the OT. I’ve always felt that the Empire, despite it’s obvious references to Nazi Germany, has more of a Soviet Union feel to it over-all. Everything they make is kinda drab and angular, like a lot of Russian architecture and engineering used to be. It’s a galaxy with all the colour and life sucked out of it, and naturally, to rebel against all that, the heroes are all swashbuckling pirates and rebels. In order for the PT to work, IMO, it had to be more colourful, formal, and regal to show that bygone golden age that Obi Wan alludes to in ANH. At east that’s how I see it, and what I believe Lucas was going for when he made the PT.

Oh I get that. My problem is that they went from space Rome to space Nazi Germany in 20 some years. The galaxy turns on a dime. We should have seen things on the brink of a dictatorship from the start. Instead we see most things are actually pretty nice, just with some politicians bickering merely telling us that it’s not so nice everywhere. The fact that we spend so much time on Naboo - which starts out beautiful and peaceful, and then gets occupied briefly but still looks the same and then remains beautiful and peaceful for the rest of the trilogy - is really emblematic of the problem of the approach there (the other big one being that they spend so much time on Coruscant).

pittrek said:

DominicCobb said:

I will say anyone who doesn’t think AOTC is the worst prequel (or the worst SW movie as a whole) is a fucking lunatic.

Wow. Thanks, I guess.

I will say I’m willing to hear an argument before I pass final lunatic status. But it’s not looking good for you.

yotsuya said:

DominicCobb, I really can’t find anything in your original post to argue or even disagree with. That said, I do find TPM to feel more like Star Wars. From the music to the settings, it captures the world very well. In ROTS that world is falling apart and changing so while it is a better film in most respects, that familiar feeling I had when I saw TPM is not there. So when I rank them I usually rank TPM over ROTS.

The music is definitely better in TPM, not even a question. I will say ROTS is very dramatic/operatic, which, while it helps make the film interesting on its own terms, hurts in terms of making it feel like SW. TPM’s smaller scope certainly helps in that regard.

ZkinandBonez said:

DominicCobb said:

It’s interesting seeing people say that TPM looked “the most like Star Wars.” Certainly in terms of shooting on film, less CGI overall and more practical effects and real locations it looks more like SW than the other two. But in terms of designs I’m not entirely sure I agree. They definitely had some leeway with the film’s setting being years before and on some different worlds, but I think in some areas things definitely went too far afield and look like they’re from a different franchise altogether.

Well, I was more going for the over-all “feel” of the film, not necessarily specific designs.

I’ve learned to really appreciate the designs in the PT in the last few years, and I actually think it’s a good thing that the PT looks very different from the OT. I even thinks it makes sense for it to feel different too, which is why I like ROTS, though I don’t complain when they do feel OT-like either.

As for straying too far from the OT designs/feel, I personally think AOTC, and to a lesser degree ROTS, are the biggest sinners there. I’m curious about what things in particular from TPM you’re referring to. I always felt that TPM balanced new and old concepts really well.

The ship, set, and costume designs in general are too ornate and (on the whole) lack the rugged, lived-in and (most importantly) utilitarian feel of the OT. Even if they are justified in universe because of the film’s areas of interest (rich Naboo and Coruscant), it just doesn’t feel quite right for a SW film to have that kind of stuff as a primary focus. If the out-there designs weren’t so abundant, it probably wouldn’t feel like a problem to me.

But that’s not all of it. Pretty much all CG aliens in the film look silly and out of place. Not to mention the Gungans and their underwater city, which straddles a line between somewhat inspired and just plain wacky.

I will say I’m a fan of the battle droids. I probably would’ve preferred them a tad bulkier but they look pretty good.

DominicCobb said:

Just got a few new Criterion BDs - The Manchurian Candidate, Scanners, and Mulholland Dr. Gotta love that Barnes & Noble 50% off deal.

That means my somewhat measly Blu-ray Criterion collection thus far is

• Seven Samurai
• The Samurai trilogy
• Throne of Blood
• The Seventh Seal
• The Hidden Fortress
• The Manchurian Candidate
• Tokyo Drifter
• Scanners
• Mulholland Dr.

I only have one Criterion DVD, The Rock.

New addition to my Criterion blu-ray collection, the Qatsi trilogy. Been trying to get this one for awhile.

It’s interesting seeing people say that TPM looked “the most like Star Wars.” Certainly in terms of shooting on film, less CGI overall and more practical effects and real locations it looks more like SW than the other two. But in terms of designs I’m not entirely sure I agree. They definitely had some leeway with the film’s setting being years before and on some different worlds, but I think in some areas things definitely went too far afield and look like they’re from a different franchise altogether.

Though I guess the other two have this problem as well. It’s funny, I started this thread to get in a passionate debate about ROTS vs. TPM, but honestly I see where people are coming from most of the time in picking the latter. I will say anyone who doesn’t think AOTC is the worst prequel (or the worst SW movie as a whole) is a fucking lunatic.

So I would love for someone to explain to me how ROTS is worse than AOTC.

SilverWook said:

I think most people were expecting Anakin to be put in the Vader suit at the end. Where we got stiffed is we didn’t get to see Vader do much of anything. Vader was so prominent in the advertising and merchandising, that the fact he was barely in the movie was a bit of a letdown.

I sort of regret never trying these as I just didn’t want to think of Anakin burning over breakfast.

I had them, they sucked.

Collipso said:

to be fair, dialogue in RotS is at times much better than in TLJ imo.

This is an absolutely absurd statement. I’m legitimately baffled.

That being said, TLJ talk is not allowed in this thread. So let’s leave it.

Anyone else getting tired of arguing the same thing over and over? I wonder if we’re intent on arguing things that have been argued to death maybe we could switch things up and argue about a different movie?

I’ll go first. ROTS is the best prequel (of the trilogy).

For starters it’s easily the most watchable in terms of pacing. Both TPM and AOTC drag throughout, with long tangential sequences that imbalance the overall structure. ROTS only has one such bloated section, but you get it over and done with up front.

It’s also the film that comes the closest to coherent character work. Most characters in TPM just stand there. In AOTC they’re all over the place. Execution aside, ROTS is the best in terms of creating multi-dimensional (and arguably likable) characters, with an effort made as well to actually challenge them and make their stories compelling.

That’s it for now. Fight me.

P.S. Only one thread rule: no arguing about the ST.

Possessed said:

I don’t think that’s what he was doing though, I interpreted it as him genuinely asking what it was because he didn’t know and a Google search didn’t tell him. Can we move on before moderation has to step in and suck the fun out of this thread?

Not to keep this going, be what I found annoying wasn’t that he didn’t know it, but that he chose by his own accord to bypass it.

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

You betrayed me! You’re not good. You-you’re just a chicken. Chip-chip-chip-chip-cheep-cheep.

Put that cookie down. Now!

How is this “popular”?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42pYj-ZWITk&t=40s

No need to post a clip. I know the film well. I would not consider it, nor that line “popular.”

The quote is popular enough to be a meme.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/put-that-cookie-down

Oh I’m sorry, you gave the impression earlier that internet-based “popular” lines weren’t legitimately popular and should be ignored completely. Thanks for clarification of thread rules.

No such impression was intended, and I’m not the OP. When I asked the question how “So good…” is popular, I couldn’t google it to figure out what it was from. Not that whether things are popular are dependent on my thinking that they are. I do not pretend to be the ultimate authority on popularity and this is not my thread.

So kindly step off, if you would please.

Sorry I assumed you must be the OP if you had the power to completely veto my post because it didn’t fit the rules to your liking. Whoops.

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

You betrayed me! You’re not good. You-you’re just a chicken. Chip-chip-chip-chip-cheep-cheep.

Put that cookie down. Now!

How is this “popular”?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42pYj-ZWITk&t=40s

No need to post a clip. I know the film well. I would not consider it, nor that line “popular.”

The quote is popular enough to be a meme.
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/put-that-cookie-down

Oh I’m sorry, you gave the impression earlier that internet-based “popular” lines weren’t legitimately popular and should be ignored completely. Thanks for clarification of thread rules.

chyron8472 said:

DominicCobb said:

chyron8472 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

You betrayed me! You’re not good. You-you’re just a chicken. Chip-chip-chip-chip-cheep-cheep.

Put that cookie down. Now!

How is this “popular”?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42pYj-ZWITk&t=40s

No need to post a clip. I know the film well. I would not consider it, nor that line “popular.”

Creox said:

NeverarGreat said:

yotsuya said:

NeverarGreat said:

djsmokingjam said:

DrDre said:

Here are two links from the same critic. The first discusses weaknesses in RJ’s story, and argues that TLJ’s biggest weakness is, that the story doesn’t go anywhere. There are no consequences.

Short summary:

"In The Last Jedi, a lot happens. But not a lot happens for long. Leia’s sudden and unexpected death only proceeds her jarring return to life.

Kylo Ren’s betrayal of Snoke, which leads to a team-up with Rey and himself against Snoke’s guards, implies his redemption… But it isn’t long lasting as his actions hardly reflect his intentions. After the fight, he has to explain himself to Rey, and how they still aren’t on the same side.

This is a classic break from “show, don’t tell.” Kylo has to tell us his motives for the scene to make sense. He essentially retcons the entire sequence, because it might as well not have happened. The scene ends up telling us nothing new. Kylo Ren is a bad guy. But we were already aware of that. Actions should speak for a character, but in the most powerful scene of the film, they don’t.

Lastly, when Luke finally faces Kylo, there’s a moment where we’re meant to believe this is the end for the Jedi Master. It seems as if Luke has accepted his fate as Kylo runs toward him with his blade drawn. Luke literally tells him something similar to what Ben Kenobi tells Darth Vader: “If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine.”

Luke seems fearless. But then, we realize Luke has nothing to fear after all. He’s not even actually there. This scene is meant for us to anticipate Luke’s death, only for it to be revealed he’s fine… Only for it to be revealed a moment later that he dies anyway."

Both these points seem incredibly pedantic and overinflated to me.

In the first instance, “show don’t tell” does not mean either that dialogue is redundant in cinema, or that actions and dialogue always have to be in perfect concert, especially regarding villains (who are often by nature duplicitous or unstable). The entire point of the throne room sequence is to set up an expectation (Kylo will side with Rey) that is then upended; in much the same way as the action at the end of ESB sets up an expectation (Vader wants to kill Luke) that is then contradicted by dialogue (“I am your father”) rather than action.

On the second point, he’s just being incredibly literal. The entire subtext of the dialogue is not that whether Luke will literally be struck down - Luke has already made it clear throughout the film that he does not fear death - but that in opposing him, Kylo ensures Luke’s reputation will echo throughout the galaxy and that thousands will be inspired by his example, which we see happen in the final scene.

To say there are no consequences to the events in the film is absurdly reductive, and frankly typical of the wilfully and uncharitably misreading “criticism” I’ve seen so much of about this film.

I think what the critic was trying to get at is that the story does its best to deflate its own most interesting ideas. There are obviously consequences and character progression, it’s just that these moments are ultimately not as consequential as we are first led to believe.

Leia is blown out into space, presumably to her death! But wait, she’s using the Force in a way we’ve never seen from her before! Has she had substantial training in those thirty years? Has the Force suddenly ‘awakened’ in her as well, making her the ‘new hope’ for the galaxy that Luke suggested in ROTJ?

No, sorry. It was just an instinctual reaction to her impending death and her Force powers will not be a big factor in the rest of the movie.

Kylo kills Snoke! Now he’s teaming up with Rey against the goofy red guards! Will he really turn to Rey’s side and will they strike out together in a new direction in order to prevent a repeat of Rebels vs Empire that we got in the previous trilogy?

No, sorry. Kylo’s still a bad egg and Rey still has a deep loyalty to the Jedi ideals (despite her teachers hating them) and the Resistance (despite knowing them for maybe a day at most). And it will be a Rebels vs Empire situation quite explicitly until the end of the movie.

You get the idea. The movie goes in some interesting directions, but it seems to make a point of teasing these truly interesting directions and pulling it back to something much more tame.

No, one of the points of this film is that anyone can use the force. Not everyone is powerful enough, but people who are powerful enough can come from anywhere. This is implicit in the PT Jedi code - attachment is forbidden and by extrapolations, so is procreation. That means that none of the powerful Jedi we see came from a long line of Jedi in the family. So if being powerful only runs in the blood, where did all the PT Jedi come from?

I don’t see what this has to do with my point. I don’t really care about Leia’s Force powers, since they don’t really affect the story, but the movie spends its time showing this impressive feat with sweeping wide shots and powerful music as if it has totally changed the game in terms of Leia’s role in the story, only to drop that and have nobody speak of it again. Cut from the bridge explosion to Leia unconscious and nothing is lost from a story perspective.

The movie does go in many interesting directions, but this is the middle chapter and we did not see a resolution to any of them. This lack of resolution leads to this erroneous conclusion that this movie did not further the story. It furthered the characters and changed them. It tackled grander things than the Resistance/Republic/First Order conflict, which it left mostly in limbo.

Are you mistakenly talking about ESB, where the larger war was in limbo? Because in TFA, the First Order was treated as a sort of terrorist fringe organization, whereas in TLJ it all-but rules the galaxy.
Besides, this is again missing the point. The critic is saying that we are first given a very interesting direction which is quickly undermined in favor of a far less interesting direction. It would be like Vader saying ‘I am your father!’ and Yoda later saying ‘Messing with you, Vader was. Your father, he definitely isn’t’ and that being that.

And we know from ROTJ that Leia is strong in the force and like her brother in TESB (who grabbed his light saber with no known training of doing that) she grabbed a ship and in keeping with the laws of physics, she moved not the ship. Rey, Leia, and the boy at the end show us that anyone can use the force, from a Skywalker to a stable boy.

That’s all very nice, but again, what does it have to do with anything? We already assumed that Leia had the capability of doing what Luke could do (even if it was left undeveloped). Why would Rian bother to show us what we already assume unless these powers are called upon later in the movie? Luke and his lightsaber is a set up for the duel with Vader, where he is now able to pull himself up out of the Carbonite pit. It shows the progression of his skills. Leia’s ability is one-and-done.

A movie experience is more than just moving to the next plot point in a straight line.

Good luck explaining that to Star Wars fans.

chyron8472 said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

You betrayed me! You’re not good. You-you’re just a chicken. Chip-chip-chip-chip-cheep-cheep.

Put that cookie down. Now!

How is this “popular”?

chyron8472 said:

dahmage said:

How do ya like them apples?

Space… The final frontier.

How is that a popular line? (I don’t even know what it’s from.)

dahmage said:

How do ya like them apples?

Was going to post that same thing.

This is great

Even his Linkedin resume is copied from a job template website.

George smothering the OOT is on the verge of being indefensible. But fans spewing toxic hate and abuse is way past the verge - there’s no defense for it and there’s no excuse.