Doctor M

D_J if you run out of MySpleen invites, let me know.  I've got 10 I'm not using.

IIRC, POA was edited by ADM that way on purpose.
I agree with his decision to not add a scene with incomplete vfx.

As far as the tower scene, I think you're talking about when Harry is supposed to wake from a dream and think Sirius was in the tower.

Again, the problem is the scene doesn't work without the completed fx, so ADM made the most of what was there.  (He briefly flirted with actually creating a dream sequence to add in.)

Can anyone corroborate what my crusty brain is telling me?

I sort of burned out, got busy with work, and just haven't gotten back to HBP.
ATM there is no test version, just a ghost in my editing software that needs to have the audio edit points cleaned up.

As far as Chamber of Secrets, could you give me more details? I'm unclear what is wrong with ADM's release.

So then I need to download the DVDs and your frame fixed better detail BD version.

Reecnode the BD to DVD and rebuild the DVDs.
Okay, fine. You talked me into it.

V4?

Can someone ban him and just end this?

Harmy said:

Here's a little sample from one of the clips DJ sent me. Top is project blu, bottom is GOUT just resided to the same size:

Click for bigness ;-)

It doesn't just look upscaled, but sharpened as well.  Now I want to grab the BD version and re-encode it to DVD.

-r requires a licensing fee.  Many manufacturers refuse to pay their competitors.  It also increases disc costs to consumers.

+r is very similar and according to videohelp.com there is negligible difference in their usage or compatibility.

+r discs do have the advantage that they can be burned to mimic other disc types.  Changing the book type is especially useful in writing DVD9's as DVD-ROM (instead of + or -).  It provides increased compatibility.

A quick update.

I sat through the whole film, made a few tweaks (including the tower scene edit-in point which had a hiccup).

One segment was giving me fits... and in the course of tracking down the problem found it to be a bug in Womble... yup.  (And it's one I've noticed before but didn't have the tech knowledge to understand until now.)

So now I can either:

1) Work around the bug (just re-edit the one problem section).  On proper DD decoders that respect dialog normalization, the audio will probably sound correct, but with a technically questionable stream (variable dialog normalization).

Playback on systems that don't handle D. Norm correctly (and some software players) the audio edits may have volume fluctuations.

2) Brute force fix the problem.  Re-edit all audio segments setting a constant volume across the film, and then using VOBDNorm to reset the entire film's normalization to -27 where it should be.

3) Curl up into a ball and cry.

4) Burn a disc of all my pieces and send it to someone who has more ambition than I do to finish this project.

5) Buy a bigger hard drive, push all the files into a folder somewhere and forget about them for a year (or until I forget how much work will really be required to finish this project).

Yeah... so.... um, yeah.

Edit:  Failed at #1, finished #3, and sort of doing #2.

Actually what I'm doing is using VOBDNorm, stripping the normalization from the movie's audio track so all pieces will be -31db.  (This is a lossless process.)

With all pieces now identical, even the re-encoded edit points will have the same characteristics.

I just need to rebalance any deleted scene audio that is too soft now compared to the rest of the film (probably all of them).

Then after I reauthor I'll use VOBDNorm again to reset the normalization to -27db where it belongs.

This SHOULD fix any weirdness and provide a consistent experience for all conditions.

Edit 2: Interesting discovery: VOBDNorm is meant to only work on VOB files which can be a pain doing each consective VOB.  Turns out it works on muxed mpeg files too.

Really, that is a great discovery.

I know I'm one of the few still using Womble... and after this project probably not much longer.

I found another bug that you all might want to know about.

If you only let Womble re-encode audio at edit points (as opposed to fully re-encoding), you can get weird volume fluctuations at edit points.

Here's why: Stream copied ac3 leaves the dialog normalization level untouched.  Re-encoded segments have the normalization re-set to -31db (regardless of what you tell Womble to use as the audio source reference).

In the case of what I'm working with I get:

Main movie audio (-27db)---Cross fade area (-31db)---Deleted Scene(-31db)

So the audio of the main movie suddenly spikes 4db before fading out.

I'm going to see about dropping Womble a line about this, but in the mean time either allow full re-encoding of audio (ugh), or use VOBDNorm to rewrite all normalization of your completed edit (less ugh, just labor intensive).

ONE MORE thing.  I know there are those that claim normalization is ONLY applied when dynamic range compression is turned on (aka midnight mode), but this is NOT true.

Correctly built Dolby decoders use it as a reference to keep changing sources, features, etc. at a steady level so you aren't constantly fussing with your volume control.  (For example on Digital TV shows to commercials, etc. should have the normalization set so that the commercials aren't louder (in theory anyway)).

PowerDVD even simulates this (even when set to full unaltered dynamic range).  Generic software media players may not (so this might go unnoticed until too late).

I think Jetrell Fo is right, an expansion of this guide (or  new guide) for Vegas might be helpful.  Every time I look at the program I chicken out and go back to Mpeg Video Wizard.

Edit:  Heard from Womble.  Nothing helpful and an unreasonable request for files for them to examine.  Probably won't be fixed.

My recommendation for Mpeg Video Wizard editors who want to avoid this problem (it only occurs when your sources are Dolby Digital with dialog normalization set to anything besides -31db(?)):

1) Uncheck "re-encode the whole audio if any part needs re-encoding" when ready to export the final streams.  After building the final DVD use VOBDNorm on each VOB file to set the normalization where you'd like it.  (Or you can leave the re-encode option checked and suffer the slight quality hit.)

2) Get Sony Vegas.

Yup, me too.  The spammer's account: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/user-profile.cfm/babyopp30/user/8860/

babyopp30

Interested in you My name is cynthia am a beautiful young girl with full of love Well, I saw your profile today which gives me joy to contact you please i will like you contact me through my e-mail daborc12@yahoo.com At the same time i will show you my picture and send me your picture Miss cynthia send me an e-mail daborc12@yahoo.com

Okkkkaaayyy.  No comments.  I hope that's good news.

Tested CD audio version of "Friends" score just for laughs... and it sounds identical.  I don't know what kind of scam they're running about downloadable "5.1 surround" version, but it's not nice.

Test-movie-only disc finishing up now.  If no one has comments or concerns I'll be watching it tonight.

Lots and lots of work for 5 more minutes of movie.

@Dr.Inza: I like the details and will no doubt check out your edit at a later date.  Unfortunately by the time I am finished working on HBP I'll be so sick of the movie I wouldn't enjoy your edit.  It's on my list though.

I'm looking to find one avisynth filter setting that will correct the whole movie as best as possible.  I have no interest in correcting scene by scene.  Once I have what I consider best, I will post what I've used.  If anyone wants to use it as part of a FanEdit, it'll be a simple matter of adding one line to your avisynth script (or in DVD Rebuilder) and encoding.

@All: Okay, I'm very near to watching a test copy of this (standard edition).
I have 2 scenes I'm a bit uncomfortable about the sound mix on.  Anyone who is able to check them out on a 5.1 system and give feed back would have my thanks.

First: http://www.mediafire.com/?7ta9a4g257sbxdf (16.83mb)

This is NOT an extended scene but a correction to go with an added scene.  Yes, it borders on fan edit territory, but the fact is the original editor cut a scene apart in order to disguise that a scene was removed.  My problem is there was different scoring over the 2 half scenes.  I've cleaned it up as best as possible.  Let me know what you think.

From my NFO on this:

In the theatrical cut, in order to hide that a scene was deleted, the editor cut a scene in half and moved the first part before Harry finds Ron mooning for Romilda and the rest following the scene.  It's actually quite awkward and the script confirms this change.  

Harry's first scene knocking on Slughorn's office door has been moved.  Some of the scene was salvaged and one line deleted.  An additional shot was constructed to fill a deleted bit that was probably a reshoot.

Crazy dialog only tracks and surround only tracks were created to smooth the transitions.

The old scene order was: Harry talks to Slughorn in potions lab, Harry knocks on Slughorn's office door and is turned away, Harry finds Ron high on love potion, Harry again goes to Slughorn's office.

The new order is: 

 

Harry talks to Slughorn in lab, Harry talks to Hermione in the common room, Harry goes upstairs to find Ron spaced out, Harry takes Ron to Slughorn's office.

Second: http://www.mediafire.com/?cbhx64n9tvacfwz (55.48mb)

Harry and Hermione Discuss Ron at Astronomy Tower.  In the original cut this scene is drenched in "The Friends" score.  The deleted scene is dialog and sound effects only.

Since the CD includes a download link to a "5.1 surround" version, I used that.  Well, it's not so much 5.1 (it's stereo) and not really a perfect match to the film's mix once you run it through a DPLII decoder.

It seems pretty good to me, but the instruments move around the channels because of the difference in the mixes.   If you all think it's bad I'll try again with the original CD's track upmixed.  It might be better (or worse), but because it's a bit of a pain to sync the track I was in no hurry to try it.

I'm also concerned that Harry's voice has a bit more rumble-y bass in the deleted scene.

Again, input would be great.  From here it's sync corrected English subtitles, preview the film, and rebuild the menus.

You're not being rude.  I like constructive criticism.
I'm aware it is a bit too bright and oversaturated.  The first scene has some odd color fringing, but the second one I think should be almost cartoon colored.  Still when I fix the former, it will reduce the latter.

As far as brightness, the first scene is at night, so I would definitely go for lower levels.  Btw, did anyone notice in the last screen shot you can now see there is actually someone in the top left of the frame reading a book?  I wonder if the book text magically glows. ;-)

So really, I was just starting to play around with a new auto-filter on the default settings and was blown away by how much color and level detail is still in those images even as crushed as they seem on the DVD.

For any final version I will use the un-color-corrected deleted scenes as a guideline to find the appropriate settings.  Hopefully I'll be able to find one setting that works across the whole film.

In the mean time @#$@#$ soundtrack.  HPB contains a bonus downloadable 5.1 mix... except it's 2-channels.  When upmixed via DPL2 sounds almost identical to my ears as the CD.  VERY misleading advertising.

Also in the movie they've mixed music into the center channel with the dialog which means stripping music to remix a scene is out an out impossible to get perfect.

I already had one scene I was dubious about, I'm afraid the final scene may come off a bit crappy as well.

I'll post clips for opinions when I'm further along.

Yes and no.  I got distracted for a bit with real life work, but the color correction has proven to be a new and painful experience.

The problem is there is no duplicating exactly what they can do, so close approximation is the best to hope for most of the time.

At the moment I'm waiting on the soundtrack, because the final scene is in the middle of a longer scene which is all score-y...  The deleted portion is dialog only.  I'm hoping this can be cobbled together cleanly.

Also... and I'm just floating an idea here... but I'm considering when finished starting with Order of the Phoenix and continuing from there with a series of de-David Yates-ed versions.

While he may be a talented TV director, he is, in my opinion, the worst thing to happen to the whole Potter franchise.

I understand color-timing, mood lighting, tinting, or whatever helps set the mood.  That's fine.  But there IS a point at which you have just crushed all light and color from a movie so as to be implausible looking and unwatchabley(sp?) dark.

Just because Voldemort has returned does not mean lights, fires, and daylight no longer work.  People sitting in the dark doing paperwork?  Full daylight looking like night?  I've joked that Deathly Hallows Part II will be so dark you'll need to bring a torch (flashlight) to the theater just to see the screen.

To make matters worse, if you watch with most types of 3D glasses, the picture will be even darker.  (Not that I will be de-Yates-ing a 3D version).

Some first test screenshots (I'll probably use deleted scenes that haven't been messed with as guidelines for the rest of the film).  (I'm also aware they are a bit oversaturated ATM.)

Btw, my intention is to do this to extended editions... I will need to track down ADM's Order of the Phoenix in DVD9 though.  I can't see re-encoding the DVD5 version or recutting it.

Again, the De-David Yates-eD version will be separate from the straight up extended cuts of HBP (and I suppose eventually Deathly Hallows 1 & 2).

That's odd.  SP2 will at least do the conversion to YUY2 for you if you didn't (albeit not as well as avisynth can).  You'd think they wouldn't remove that feature.

Btw, did you also remember to do a BT.709 to BT.601 conversion?  I always forget that when my source is HD.

I've been watching this thread only because I didn't even know there WAS an SP3.  I had no idea they were still developing CCE.  Everything sort of died with 2.7 for the longest time.

VOBDNorm  really had one release and it was considered experimental.  I've never had an issue with it though.

It's a command line only proggie and a bit hard to get your head around.

The real down side is it works on a per VOB file basis.  That is if you have it edit VTS_01_1.VOB, then you have to do VTS_01_2.VOB... etc.  (If there is a way to make it do an entire VTS in one command, I've never figured it out.)

On the up side, you can specify which audio track(s) you want altered.  The changes do not have to be applied to all tracks.

Edit: Turns out VOBDNorm also works (possibly unintentionally) with standard mpeg files.  So you can mux an mpeg video with a Dolby track and rewrite the D.Norm, then demux if you need a raw track.  Much easier than working with VOB pieces parts.

Actually you make a good point.

He should enable DRC for playback, but was an appropriate dialog normalization level set when encoding these tracks for those who do use DRC?

And for that matter did D_J do anything to sync the tracks that may have stripped the dialog normalization?

It was part of my old PAL to NTSC guide, but the I've since replaced the section.

1) Rip the subtitles in idx/sub format with VobSub (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=82303&package_id=84359)

Load Vobsub Configure, click Open, click the drop down menu “Files of type:” to say “Ifo and Vobs, for creating idx/sub (*.ifo)”. Select the IFO of the movie.

You’ll be asked to pick a save location. Pick one and click OK.

In the top left scroll box, pick the program chain (PGC) that corresponds to the movie you want the subtitles from.

By default all found sub streams will be selected as well as the cells.

Do not remove any subtitles from the list, but make a note of the 2 digit numbers associated with each subtitle, these are the ID numbers and you'll need them later.

Click OK and wait while it indexes the subs.

2) Convert VobSub (idx/sub) files to .SON format using VSCONV (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=82303&package_id=84443).

Open a command window in Windows by clicking "Start" and "Run".

Type "cmd" (no quotes) and click "OK".

Create a new folder for the subtitles since it generates a very large number of files.

At your command line type:

"c:\vsconv directory\VSCONV.EXE" -f maestro -id 0 -i "c:\Working Files Directory\VTS_01_0" -o "c:\New Folder\Sub00"

Include the quotes as shown, replace directory names with the ones you are using, and the VTS number with the correct one for your idx/sub file.

Don't be surprised to have upwards of 1000 files in your new directory.

If you have more than one subtitle you will have to repeat this for each ID number you noted in Step 1. Make sure you use a new name for each one.

That is:

"c:\vsconv directory\VSCONV.EXE" -f maestro -id 0 -i "c:\Working Files Directory\VTS_01_0" -o "c:\New Folder\Sub00"

"c:\vsconv directory\VSCONV.EXE" -f maestro -id 1 -i "c:\Working Files Directory\VTS_01_0" -o "c:\New Folder\Sub01"

"c:\vsconv directory\VSCONV.EXE" -f maestro -id 2 -i "c:\Working Files Directory\VTS_01_0" -o "c:\New Folder\Sub02"

ffdshow devs tell me the problem is fixed in rev 3835.  When that's actually released I'll give it a try.

They also suggested that ffdshow may not be the most suitable program to use in this manner.

Unfortunately, they closed the bug report so I can't reply to get specifics why they said that.

It's has me still considering rewriting to go to lossless 5.1 in this guide, but it's just a much bigger pain.

5.1 wave is an awkward format, the channel order is different from DD 5.1 so you have to re-arrange the channels, it takes an extra link in GraphStudio and an extra step to encode the final output.

If anyone following this thread has specific knowledge why ffdshow isn't a good Dolby encoder, I'd like to find out more.

Wasted many more hours on this so far.  There are 2 deleted scenes of Harry and Dumbledore in the cave.  Again, they aren't color corrected.

Getting the levels right is easy enough, but I knew there had to be a way to do this right (not just tweaking the hue and desaturating).

After much messing around, I realized individual color saturation/hues was not the answer, but that all they did after darkening the picture was to just pick a color and tint the whole scene.

I found 2 identical frames, one from the theatrical scene, one from the deleted.  With a snapshot of the theatrical frame, I used GIMP to find the peak RGB levels.  (This is similar to how autolevel type adjustments assume the brightest color is pure white).

With these RGB levels, I converted to Hex and used a nice little AviSynth filter called Tint().  Then I just tinted the frame to match.

Again, not perfect, but it has me impressed.

Deleted Scene (Raw):

Theatrical Frame:

Color Corrected Deleted Scene:

I'll be going back to that hallway scene and redoing it now.  It looks like it has orange tinting.

Btw, while messing around I found a really neat avisynth filter called ColourLike.  http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=96308  I didn't use it here, but it could be helpful for others.

ColourLike takes the histogram of 2 video clips, and then applies the histogram of one clip to the other.  Might be nice for some Star Wars color tweaking if we had a source we liked the colors in... like maybe a laserdisc.

Sigh.  Don't feed the trolls.

True, but this is a frequently asked question by editors and preservationists.

Deleted content is frequently not DD5.1.  Non-DVD sourced audio can be very high quality but 2-channels is the medium's limit.

Most automatic upmix procedures can produce poorly localized dialog and other unpleasant side effects.

So sometimes, yeah, even really bad sources need to be upmixed.

I haven't made any changes to the color correction or the way the video looks from the clip posted.  That's the part that I'm still worried about.

The cut is mercifully just as they are walking by a window that seems to play havoc with the camera's exposure anyway, so it does a good job hiding things.

I know the cut is there so I always see it.  I'm curious if anyone else can (although to be fair, a lot of the other extended Potter edits have noticeable audio/video quality change when a deleted scene appears.)

I've also started looking at the next edit point.  It appears that they ham-fistedly split a scene into two and stuffed another scene between them to hide that something was removed.

That's gonna take a bit of fixing as well.

HD Edits: Hmm.  I'm thinking about it.  It also means going back and re-doing 3 through 5.  (And frankly I'd want to re-edit #2.  I think their 'professional' edit leaves something to be desired.)

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Harry-Potter-and-the-Chamber-of-Secrets-The-Enhanced-ABC-Cut-Finished/topic/8252/

29 view of this topic and 4 downloads of the file... no one has an opinion?  Is that good or bad?

Edit: I have since retweaked the audio.  I'm comfortable with it (but did not update the file linked above).

The video of the first edit point I'm still not sure about though.