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Darth Bizarro

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28-Nov-2010
Last activity
14-Aug-2013
Posts
277

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Post
#513266
Topic
An Experiment in Inducting a SW newbie.
Time

I should probably mention as well that when we got to Ep IV, she really liked that the special effects were less in your face and flashy.  So it is true that she went into the originals expecting more flash but she was happy to not have it.  

I agree with you guys 100% that she might have enjoyed ANH more if we started there, but even still, I'm quite happy with the level of preference she had for the originals overall even having seen the prequels first.  To me it proves that the originals can and will still endure even with the prequels clouding people's judgement.

While watching the prequels, she never batted an eye at Yoda.  He was CG and she knew he was CG.  But when we got to Empire and Yoda started doing stuff CG free, she actually asked me how they did that.  To me, that's success. 

Post
#513227
Topic
An Experiment in Inducting a SW newbie.
Time

twooffour said:

Darth Bizarro said:

Many of you are suggesting that it is a bad idea to show her the prequels first because it ruins the experience of the originals.  But how can any of you really say that for certain.  Most people here saw the originals first and then the prequels so I ask, what frame of reference do you have that showing them the other way ruins the originals.  Everyone is going to have their own opinion.  And dare I say, part of the reason why we consider the prequels to be so bad is because our standards for what makes a good Star Wars film have been set so high by the original trilogy, especially Empire, that it is impossible for the prequels to live up to our standards.  Remove that sentiment and the prequels not only become less offensive, but dare I say it, good.  Some people do like them and it's not fair to call all those people stupid just because they like something you don't.  And even through it all, she picked 2 of the 3 original movies as her favorites, gagged at all the right stuff in Episode 2, and picked Episode 3 as the best of the prequels and a good film, a sentiment that even many people here share.  

The only reason why showing the prequels first would be a "bad idea", is, as I think Gaffer Tape put it, because of the SPOILERS.

It's not a definite reason against it (a movie with a twist can still be enjoyed knowing the twist ahead, if it's a good movie), but the WOW effect is still a memorable experience you don't NEED to take away from the viewer, so I dunno.
I think I liked the 6th Sense quite enough, but I don't know how much more impressed I'd been, had I not known ahead.
On the other hand, I remember being blown away by the reveal in "Identity" (it's all in the mind of a crazy fat guy; don't read the previous sentence if you don't want your WOW effect completely and hopelessly ruined - it's not like you can just erase a spoiler from your memory!), which was pretty awesome.


Now, all the "cool" spoilers in the OT are already common knowledge, but the portrayal of its characters in the PT may negatively affect the first viewing of the OT.
Then again, I do think it's very possible to take Ben, and Darth, for what they are in their respective movies, without thinking too much about asshole Obi-Wan and emo Ani.



So I'd say it doesn't really matter :D


"Remove that sentiment and the prequels not only become less offensive, but dare I say it, good."
Not really, no. You can't get over its most basic, and glaring flaws, like the predominantly dull characters and delivery, the shitty exposition, the confusing plot structure and, more than anything, character motivation, and some of its "annoying humor".

Not that anyone who likes them is stupid, but it's very possible to like them out of stupidity.

As I said in an earlier post, I did seriously consider skipping the prequels but since she already knew Vader was Luke's father going in, I decided against it.  

I think it's perfectly acceptable to like a bad or flawed movie if you can find something about it to enjoy.  For me, the shear fact that the prequels have anything to do with the originals makes me like them.  They're no worse than a lot of EU stuff.  But there's a big difference I think between liking something and loving something.  I like the prequels, but I love the originals.  There's nothing wrong with liking something that's flawed, as long as you realize it's flawed.  I realize that Temple of doom is flawed, but it's still my favorite Indiana Jones movie.  It's only if the flaws go completely over you head, that you become stupid.  That's why I have zero tolerance for Twilight fans.

Post
#513214
Topic
An Experiment in Inducting a SW newbie.
Time

Many of you are suggesting that it is a bad idea to show her the prequels first because it ruins the experience of the originals.  But how can any of you really say that for certain.  Most people here saw the originals first and then the prequels so I ask, what frame of reference do you have that showing them the other way ruins the originals.  Everyone is going to have their own opinion.  And dare I say, part of the reason why we consider the prequels to be so bad is because our standards for what makes a good Star Wars film have been set so high by the original trilogy, especially Empire, that it is impossible for the prequels to live up to our standards.  Remove that sentiment and the prequels not only become less offensive, but dare I say it, good.  Some people do like them and it's not fair to call all those people stupid just because they like something you don't.  And even through it all, she picked 2 of the 3 original movies as her favorites, gagged at all the right stuff in Episode 2, and picked Episode 3 as the best of the prequels and a good film, a sentiment that even many people here share.  

First reaction is key, but when and if she goes back and watches the movies again, and becomes a fan, then the real winners will win out.  Regardless of what choices she makes, it's her choice.  Different things speak to different people.  Some people like Jack Nicholson's Joker, others like Heath Ledger.  Some prefer Evil Dead, others prefer Army of Darkness.  Heck, some of us even like Ghostbusters 2 better than 1.

Post
#513186
Topic
When did you realize the Prequels sucked?
Time

-Episode I - Not a terrible film but horribly mediocre compared to the rest of the films.  The fact that it's related to Star Wars gives it a few extra points.  It's still better IMO than a lot of other crap.

-Episode II - Some parts of this movie I really like while others fall completely flat.  The Phantom Editor's version of this redeems the film almost entirely for me.  I wish the scenes at Padme's parents house had stayed in.  Also, no matter what anybody says, I like Yoda's lightsaber duel.  The Yoda we see in Empire has spent 20 years in alone in a bog contemplating everything that went wrong so he's going to be at least a little different.

-Episode III - Good overall but suffer's severely from dragging on way to long in places.  The whole opening, the duel, the expedition to stop Grievous...pointless filler.  A few cheesy lines still but not a enough to ruin the experience for me.  I liked the Yoda/Sidious duel, however, I feel it should have maybe taken place earlier in the movie so that it wouldn't interrupt the Anakin/Obi-Wan duel.  Maybe Yoda attacking him could have been part of the catalyst for Palpatine to accuse the Jedi of treason or something.

-And I still say that watching the prequels and knowing the story makes Return of the Jedi a much better film once you know more about Vader and Palpatine.

Post
#513072
Topic
An Experiment in Inducting a SW newbie.
Time

CP3S said:

Darth Bizarro said:

I was finally able to convince my sister... to sit down and watch all the Star Wars movies for the first time... in chronological order... the official DVD versions of each film.  No original theatricals. 

You monster! Is your sister okay? Is she recovering from the trauma?

Yes, she's recovering quite nicely with her Ewok plushie.

Post
#512788
Topic
An Experiment in Inducting a SW newbie.
Time

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

I've never thought it was a good idea to watch Ep.4 in the context of episodes 1/2/3.  It's like watching a battle of the bands between Metallica and the Mozart String Quartet.  You just can't appreciate one while being bombarded by the other.  I'd be much more interested in someone's reaction to seeing them in the order they were made.

And it's not at all surprising that many people these days are reluctant to watch Star Wars.  The whole franchise and saga have gotten so silly that people assume the whole lot is a bunch of juvenile silliness.

I've seen reactions of plenty of people who saw the original trilogy before the prequel trilogy so had it done it that way I would have expected the same result.  I wanted to see it the other way around.  So I'll have to disagree with you on that point.  

I had actually given serious consideration to showing her 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6 order but as she already know going in that Vader was Luke's father, I felt no need to avoid spoiling it for her.

It isn't that she disliked A New Hope.  I apologize if I made it sound that way.  She actually said she liked them all.  But 3, 5, and 6 were the ones that she gave the largest reaction to both during and after.

Post
#512707
Topic
An Experiment in Inducting a SW newbie.
Time

After many years, I was finally able to convince my sister, who just turned 18, to sit down and watch all the Star Wars movies for the first time.  Over the course of several nights, we watched all six films in chronological order.  I thought it would be an interesting experiement to see how someone would react to the films in this order rather than the original trilogy then prequel order.  I've decided to present my findings here.

I showed her the official DVD versions of each film.  No original theatricals.  The only excepting being that I showed her Star Wars Revisited instead of the regular special edition.  After we finished Return of the Jedi I went back and showed her the Greedo shoots first scene and the Jabba scene from the Special Edition and I showed her the Lapti Nek scene and original ending for Return of the Jedi.

She was largely indifferent to Episode 1.  She giggled a few times at some of Jar Jar's antics but she wanted to slap little kid Anakin.  

During Episode II, she said she was ready to throw up during all the love scenes between Anakin and Padme.  She did really enjoy the action scenes and thought Yoda was sooooo cute when he busted out his little lightsaber.  She found 3PO's antics at the end funny.  

She really enjoyed Episode III although she really hated General Grievous and was extremely happy when he died.  She reacted with a really strong "Oh No!" when Anakin pulled out his lightsaber on the younglings.  She proceeded to call him a "poopie head" the rest of the movie.  She complained that the movie took way too long to end.  She reacted very emotionally to Anakin turning on Padme at the end.  At the end I asked her when she figured out Palpatine was Darth Sidous.  It was during the opera scene.  Also, during the Wookie battle she loudly proclaimed that she wanted one.

A New Hope didn't go as well I had hoped.  She didn't dislike it but her reaction wasn't as strong as it had been for Episode III.  When all was said and done, she said that the felt Episode IV should have been more deep considering how much more deep some of the others had been plot wise.

For most of Empire Strikes Back she was quite.  However, a few interesting comments came out of her mouth.  During one scene where Vader had done something particularly evil, she made the comment that she sort of felt bad for the guy.  While Leia was running around Cloud City shooting stormtroopers, she commented that Leia was a much better shot than her mother.  She reacted with genuine shock when Lando opened the door to reveal Vader sitting at the table waiting for our heroes.  Then, later on when they are walking down the hall and Lando presses a few buttons on his wrist control thingy she asked if he was doing something good or something traitorous.  Dispite having scene Episode 2, she asked me who that guy was when Boba Fett came on screen.  During the love scenes between Han and Leia she commented that this is how they should have done the love scenes with Anakin and Padme and that they weren't vomit inducing.  

During the entire second half of Return of the Jedi, she couldn't stop talked about how much she loved the Ewoks and immediately wanted to go out to Toys-R-Us afterwards and get an Ewok plush.  As the film started, she genuenly believed that Luke was going to fall to the dark side at the end and take Vader's place.  Throughout the movie, she repeated shouted at the TV every time the Emperor talked.  Her complaint was that his mouth moved freaky when he talked.  When Han badgers Leia about what she and Luke were just talking about, she called him a dumb ass.  While Palpatine is electroshocking Luke, she started calling out to the screen, yelling at Vader to hurry up and help him and then when he finally does she then says "Awww, hims hurt."  When ghost Anakin pops up at the end, she got excited that he was back to being "pretty Anakin."

Next, her reactions to the bits and pieces I showed her.

-Greedo Shoots First - when I first showed it to her, she couldn't tell anything was different.  When I pointed it out to her she commented that it was better the other way but wasn't really that big a deal.

-CGI Jabba - she hated this scene commenting that it looked completely fake, more so than any other CGI in the rest of the films.  He main complaint was with how close Han seemed to be walking next to him.  She did admit that she liked being able to see him move around though.

-Lapti Nek - She liked Jedi Rocks better because she said the sequence was more lively and amusing and enjoyed what she called "the outerspace version of Destiny's Child."

-Original Jedi Ending - She liked the original song better than the new one but she admitted that it was a close call.  She preferred young Anakin because she said he was prettier and it made more sense that he would revert back to the way he looked before he turned evil.  

For her final thoughts, she said she liked The Empire Strikes Back the best.  Return of the Jedi was a close 2nd mainly because she really liked the Ewoks.  Revenge of the Sith was her 3rd favorite.  She did not assign a ranking for The Phantom Menace, Attack of the Clones, or A New Hope.

It was a very interesting couple of nights to say the least.  Watching the Saga with someone who has never scene them is always refreshing for the viewing experience.  I found myself apreciating things I hadn't appreciated for a while and poking fun at things that had long since started going over my head.

One of the other boards on here talks about how we need to keep the prequels away from the younger generation to keep them from tainting the minds of those that haven't yet scene the original trilogy.  As if viewing the evil prequels will somehow retroactively male the original trilogy bad.  After this experience, I really don't think that's the case and while we all might have differing opinions about which films are better than others, I still think the future of fandom is in safe hands.

 

Post
#512700
Topic
What do you LIKE about the Prequels?
Time

Asaki said:

Jar Jar aside, I'm probably the only one on this forum who actually liked the prequels ¬_¬ I wish they weren't a huge bad-CGI-fest, but somehow I'm able to look past that and really get into them in a way that I probably shouldn't. Maybe it's only because I missed out seeing the original trilogy in theatres, and seeing Eps 2 and 3 on the big screen was a pretty big event for me.

*runs to hide from the slings and arrows*

You aren't alone.  I too like the prequels.  We just aren't as loud about it as those who don't.

Things I liked:

-Obi-Wan in Episode 2 and 3.

-The Battle of Geonosis

-Count Dooku

-Anakin's Downfall

-The entire Tatooine segment in episode 2

-Almost everything in episode 3 after the death of General Grievous

-The opera house scene.

-Yoda's Lightsaber!  The primary reason why almost all episode 2 and 3 fanedits fall flat for me.  

Post
#509990
Topic
"I am wondering.....why are you here?"
Time

I'm pretty much just here for the preservations and I'll occationally throw my two cents worth into a conversation.  I'm not really against the prequels or special edititons like many people here but I am a very strict believer in preservation of film history.  In a perfect world where Lucas actively catered to all of his fans and put out both versions of the movies in good quality, I'd probably watch both versions about 50/50 each.  If I'm actually in the mood for the full "Tradgdy of Darth Vader" as he's calling it now, I'll go ahead and watch the official version straight through from 1-6 and other times when I'm in the mood for "The Adventures of Luke Skywalker" it's theatricals only.  To me, both versions have their pluses and minuses.  I hate Greedo shooting first as much as the next guy but I love the new shot of Han running into the docking bay full of Stormtroopers, the Wampa scene, the Cloud city exteriors, and the new music in the Jedi finale.

I don't believe I have to pick a version and go with it.  I like having multiple versions so I can change up the experience.  My favorite cut of Dawn of the Dead is theatrical version but I'll still watch the European and Extended versions from time to time.  With Army of Darkness, I'll switch back and forth between the Captain Supermarket ending and the Apocalypse ending every other time I watch it.

To me though, it's just tiring to constantly be pissed off all the time.  It use to be fun being a Star Wars fan but with all the crap nowadays with infighting among fans, I'd almost rather kick back and accept Jar Jar than continue raging constantly.  I don't have to like Jar Jar but I can learn to tolerate him.

So I guess I'm just here for an alternative.  I lurk around on TFN and listen to their Podcast every week.  I tune into the Clone Wars and I have every intention of buying the blu rays for all 6 films.  And yet I'm still here.

Post
#498498
Topic
Idea: THX Wow Pre-Special Edition Clips...
Time

I don’t know if anybody else has though of doing this or not but I just thought I throw it out there.

I just downloaded the Rebellion Collection bonus disks and was watching the THX Wow feature and noticed that the video has some non special edition elements including some battle of Yavin shots, the Yavin take off,  the Sebastian Shaw ghost, the Death Star explosion, and partial emperor hologram.

From what I can tell at first glance, these elements do appear to be a bit higher quality than the GOUT footage.

I was thinking maybe someone could consider using some of this footage for one of their theatrical reconstructions if they haven’t already.  I’ll admit I could be ignorant to someone already having considered this but I thought, hey, what the hell.

I don’t know what the original source for the video is so their might be a less compressed version out there than the Rebellion Collection version.

Post
#494955
Topic
Cast This...Star Wars
Time

TV's Frink said:

bkev said:

Tee-hee. Frink's showing his old man temper.

:-\

Don't be :-\ Frink.

I think most of us find random interjections to be quite day brightening.

--------------------------------------------------

So...Just for fun, who else might be good for the voice of Vader if James Earl Jones were to pass on.  

Personally, I thought Jeff Bridges mechanized Iron Monger voice in the first Iron Man would work really well.  Particularly when we pops up and says "where do you think you're going?"

Post
#494920
Topic
Cast This...Star Wars
Time

TV's Frink said:

greenpenguino said:

Are we friends Frink?

 

Am I allowed to joke about your Mum?

You're on the list...

I would love to see Geddy Lee play Obi-Wan...and have him sing/screech all his lines.

Come to think of it, Screech would make a pretty good Luke.

Oh, my bad.  I didn't see the list.  I guess I should have checked google before making such a harsh comment.  My apologizes.

Post
#494909
Topic
Cast This...Star Wars
Time

TV's Frink said:

Darth Bizarro said:

TV's Frink said:

My mom will be playing the part of Padme in this new Star Wars movie.

Can I assume that you will be playing Luke then?

Only if you assume that related actors have to play related characters....so...no.

I don't, I was just trying to ease the unnecessarily escalating tension. 

Post
#494905
Topic
Cast This...Star Wars
Time

TV's Frink said:

Have I made a personal joke at your expense?  I certainly haven't made an offensive comment about your mom.

I see two possibilities regarding your comment:

1) You were serious about my mom
2) You were making a joke about my mom

I can't imagine it was #1, correct me if I'm wrong and I'll remind you personal attacks are not allowed by the rules of the forum.

Assuming it was #2, my point is that mom jokes are traded amongst friends.  You and I are not friends.  Therefore, don't joke about my mom.

/off-topic rant

Also...

My mom will be playing the part of Padme in this new Star Wars movie.

Can I assume that you will be playing Luke then?

Post
#494902
Topic
Cast This...Star Wars
Time

TV's Frink said:

Darth Bizarro said:

TV's Frink said:

TheBoost said:

Young Anakin - Joel Courtney

I'm curious why you'd cast an actor with one credit in a film that's not even out yet. Have you seen him do community theater?

*giggle*

...

All I want to know is who does Billy Dee get to play?

Cornhole with your mom.

Excuse me but you and I are not on good enough terms for you to make jokes about my mom.

Especially lame mom jokes.

Oh, and how might one get on good terms with TV's Frink?

Do I get a little punch card for every smart ass comment directed in my general direction and for every 100 punches I get a free dig.

Post
#494891
Topic
Cast This...Star Wars
Time

TheBoost said:

Darth Bizarro said:

Palpatine - Timothy Dalton/Kevin Spacey/Alan Rickman

 Those are three wildly different actors.

Young Anakin - Joel Courtney

 

I'm curious why you'd cast an actor with one credit in a film that's not even out yet. Have you seen him do community theater?

I couldn't decide on Palpatine, so I pick them all thinking they could all give a different but equily good performance.

His few bits in the Super 8 trailer were a screen test enough for me.  It's hard to think of child actors who aren't completely terrible.

Post
#494564
Topic
Cast This...Star Wars
Time

Pretend Star Wars was being made today.  Who would you cast?

Luke Skywalker - Johnny Simmons

Han Solo - Hugh Jackman

Princess Leia - Mary Elizabeth Winstead

Obi Wan - Gary Oldman

Grand Moff Tarkin - Ian McKellen

C-3PO - David Tennant

Palpatine - Timothy Dalton/Kevin Spacey/Alan Rickman

Anakin - James Franco

Padme - Emma Watson

Young Anakin - Joel Courtney

Jar Jar Binks - Paulie Shore