Darth Bizarro

TV's Frink said:

Darth Bizarro said:

TV's Frink said:

skyjedi2005 said:

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Personally, I don't think the prequels are salvagable in any form, as prequels

or episodes 1-3.

Tell you what...you stop repeating yourself, I'll stop complaining about it.

Can't we all just accept the fact that some of us like the prequels and some of us don't.  I was under the impression that we were all pretty much of the common opinion that the original unaltered trilogy ought to be preserved.  Is it really worth throwing feces at one another over something as trivial as little microscopic force generating organisms and a cartoon rabbit who steps in the poopie.

I seriously don't think there is a single person here who thinks the prequels are better than the original trilogy, or even on par.  But that doesn't mean that some of us can't still enjoy them to a certain extent.

Perhaps it would help if you were to read my follow-up post.

EDIT: Wait, were you talking to me or skyjedi?

I did read it actually, I just accidentally hit reply with quote to the previous one.

I was really talking to both of you.  You guys were getting poo all over the walls.

Sooo....are you suggesting we murder them?

TV's Frink said:

skyjedi2005 said:

Puggo - Jar Jar's Yoda said:

Personally, I don't think the prequels are salvagable in any form, as prequels

or episodes 1-3.

Tell you what...you stop repeating yourself, I'll stop complaining about it.

Can't we all just accept the fact that some of us like the prequels and some of us don't.  I was under the impression that we were all pretty much of the common opinion that the original unaltered trilogy ought to be preserved.  Is it really worth throwing feces at one another over something as trivial as little microscopic force generating organisms and a cartoon rabbit who steps in the poopie.

I seriously don't think there is a single person here who thinks the prequels are better than the original trilogy, or even on par.  But that doesn't mean that some of us can't still enjoy them to a certain extent.

doubleofive said:

 

TV's Frink said:

A step-brother feels too much like an Earth concept to me.

I cringed whenever I hear that line. It even seems very American to me.

 

I actually thought Owen should have been his real brother, but much younger.  It would have added to the tragedy I think knowing that Anakin was essentially replaced.  Of course, in order to do that they would have had to skew the timeline slightly since Owen wouldn't have been the right age to take in Luke in Revenge as he would have only 10 years old in Attack.  Actually, I take it all back, the whole 10 year old slave Anakin idea sucked and screwed the whole thing up.

TV's Frink said:

Whenever we have these "which order to watch" discussions I have to throw out the 4-5-1-2-3-6 idea.

*throw*

You know, I actually thought the exact same thing awhile ago.  I thought, if I ever have children and show them the Star Wars movies, I'd really want the surprise in Empire too be maintained, BUT, Jedi has a lot more impact, I think, knowing the Anakin backstory (heck, it almost even makes the HC ghost at the end not seem so bad since we just saw that version 1 movie ago).

I like to think of it as telling the story from Luke's point of view.  30 minutes into Jedi, Luke is told the truth about his father and placing the prequels so close to this point allows you to discover this as Luke does, and in similar period of time as Luke had 6 months (6 hours) to think about this during the Shadow's of the Empire time period.

Just something to think about also but consider the sister reveal as well.  The Jedi reveal kinda sucks and the Revenge reveal actually works pretty well minus the whole "lost the will to live" crap.

What makes the prequel interesting is that you can watch them in either order really.  Obviously, most people saw the movies in the order of 4, 5, 6, 1, 2, and 3.  And it is obvious that the prequel are designed this way, hence all the nods to the original trilogy.  The movies are made with the expectation that you've seen the original trilogy.  However, a newer inductee into the Star Wars world might view the films in the 1-6 order, which would ruin the surprise at the end of Empire that Vader is Luke's father, but it would also make Anakin's downfall to Vader at the end of Revenge of the Sith more surprising.  Remember, we all went into the prequels knowing that Anakin eventually became Darth Vader, but a newer fan who was inducted with the prequels would not.  So the intrigue and surprise would be there, but in a different way depending on which order you saw the films.  Something else worth considering is the younger fans of the Clone Wars series who haven't seen any of the films, what kind of surprise might they be in to learn what happens to their hero Anakin who is, as such, portrayed much more heroicly in the Clone Wars series.  All in all, I doesn't really matter what order you watch the story in, be it original, prequel, series...prequel, series, original...or series, prequel, original...you're going to get a different set of surprises that work work in a different way. 

OT aside, I think many of the technical issues that existed on the DVDs were likely caused by Lucas not giving them his full attention while he was still in production on Episode III.  I mean, how else could we account for Luke's green lightsaber in A New Hope.  The transfers were made from the 1997 special edition prints so the additional alterations made aren't set in stone.  He didn't go back cut the newer Jabba model into the prints, he added them afterwards, which means these alterations can still be tweaked even if he's not doing a brand new transfer.

Damn, I would have really liked to have checked those out.  Especially the Episode III one considering how useless the "Within a Minute" documentary on that disk was.  I can only hope they'll end up on the blu rays.

I was recently reading about some of the stuff that was removed from Revenge of the Sith and altered in re-shoots, but when I was looking at the sources, they said something about the Revenge of the Sith "Depth Commentaries."  I had no idea what this was until I did a little digging to discover that all the prequels had these text commentaries but only as DVD Rom features.  So I popped in my Episode III disk to check them out but I can't for the life of me get them to work.  The AutoPlayer that pops up just gives me a big red X when I try to play the movie and the link to the website with additional features just brings me to the homepage for Star Wars.com.  Does anybody know if these DVD Rom features have been disabled or something.  Does anybody else have any luck or does my computer just suck have have a bad plug in?  The only article I can find about it was published in 2006 and the links he provides are dead.

It's has it's ups and downs.  A lot of the story arcs stand on their own pretty well so it's pretty easy to jump into at any point really.  Highly reccomend the episodes with Cad Bane.  That dudes a pimp.  If only they'd have given Boba Fett that much cool shit to do.

I generally have mixed feelings about the originals verses the special editions issue.  There are some changes I liked and others that I don't and some even that I don't care either way.  The Jabba's palace dance number scenes for example, pretty much sucks in both versions and while I think the overly elaborate Mos Eisley intro was talking it a bit too far, the original always felt a little too short as well.  I don't want either version to go away.  Both versions have their strong points as far as I'm concerned.

Comments like these piss me off no matter what the source.  I'd be upset about getting a comment like that but I've had people redicule me just for saying possitive things about the prequels and special editions.  I think everybody needs to be aware of the things they say in this respect.

Jonno said:

How are you with DVD authoring? I ask because it seems that the best option would be for you to take the introductory stuff you want and add it to the front of a superior transfer (e.g. DJ's V3) so you don't actually have to sit through a VHS quality copy of the film (which gets old fast!)

I recently did just that with the CBS-FOX part (which I can supply if you're interested) - the Maltin interviews are also around on some folks' extras discs (I did my own PAL transfers of these a while back which you're also welcome to if they're any use).

I would be interested, if you could.

Didn't Splinter also end with Vader falling down a bottomless pit.  I haven't read the book itself yet but I know that's the last you see of him in the comic adaptation, shouting "Nooooooooooo."  

I also find it interesting that the words "Star Wars" don't actually appear anywhere on the cover of the original edition of the books but does mention the "Adventures of Luke Skywalker."  I think you mentioned that in Secret History as I recall though.  

BTW, I'm only up to the Empire section at this point but it's an amazing read so far.

I'm currently reading the Secret History of Star Wars and I came across a point where he discusses the fact that Alan Dean Foster was originally suppose to write two books following Star Wars that would encompase a low budget trilogy in the event that Star Wars didn't do well.  But when Star Wars became a hit this idea was scraped and we only got the first of these books, Splinter of the Minds Eye.  

I've always been curious what this 3rd part might have consisted of had it ever been made but nobody every seems to talk about it.  Does anybody know if there is some information out there regarding what the last book would have entailed?

This may seem a little odd considering the inferior quality but I’m actually wondering if anybody has done rips of the old CBS Fox and THX “Heads” VHS tapes.  I mean if Puggo can give us the old 8mm versions, surely the VHS copies would be a staple too.

Particulairy I’m looking for ones that still have the previews and logos at the start of the video.  When I was a kid, seeing that CBS Fox logo at the start with the occompaniying fanfare was as much a part of the experience as the 20th Century Fox logo and when I popped in those THX versions years later, I did frequently watch the George Lucas/Leonard Maltin interviews before I got into the movie.

Actually, the VHS 1997 specials editions with the featurettes at the start would be nice too.

If anybody knows where I could locate these version I’d be very appreciative.

I don't think I'd change the main story much.  The biggest thing I would do is try to make Anakin's story parallel Luke's a little more.  Start him off close to the same age, or at the earliest maybe 16 or 17.  I'd have the Clone Wars start either in the first film or at the latest, the beginning of Episode 2.  The Clone wars should have been a much bigger part of the story and not just some minor inconvenience occurring elsewhere in the galaxy.  I'd keep the separatists as the instigators but somewhere along the line I would have the Jedi realize that the Republic really has gone bad and that the separatists where actually right.  When they attempt to stop the fighting Palpatine turns the republic against them.  The separatists eventually lead to the rebellion and many of the separatists we will see will be races we saw in the original trilogy (Mon Calamari, Sullustans, ect).  The whole rule of 2 crap with the Sith, out the window, Palpatine has a secret order of the Sith just like they are discribed in the early drafts of the original movie, minus the whole Kaiburr crystal thing.  Would probably keep the likes of Dooku, Maul, and Asajj Ventress.  Anakin will actually fall to the dark side in Episode II to better reflect the darker ending of Empire.  That way, Episode III can all be about Obi-Wan being a hero and trying to redeem Anakin much like Luke does in Jedi only he fails.

Marked and locked in.

How could the Star Wars forum be closed, we're still here.

I have way to many versions of these movies...but I'll gladly take one more please.

BarBar Jinkx said:

 

how are you going to cover the change in wardrobe?

 

I was just going to take a page from Lucas's book and have them do like Padme and change cloths every 5 minutes.

Actually:

For Han I was going to try to stretched his A New Hope shots as much as I can for the battle (might not work) so he'd be in his vest the whole movie.

Leia would only switch to her Hoth gear after they land and would continue to where it while they're are running away.  When she gets the the end and helps corrodinate the battle, back to the white dress and donuts in her hair.

Luke would be wearing his white tunic until Hoth, then his wardrobe change would follow with the rest of Empire until he goes to Coruscant/Emperor's Palace/Cloud City.  Then sometime after getting taken by Vader but before arriving at the Emperors throne room, he'd switch to his black outfit.  I thought it might be fitting that Vader might have given him a Sith wardrobe seeing as how he is taking him to the Emperor to be turned.

Pure Sexiness.

So based on some of the comments and my ideas here is a basic outline that could work.  There are other thinks I would like to work in but this would be the most plausible.  Some of the transitions might be a little jarring so some work on this will still need to be done.

1.  A New Hope begins as normal and plays out as normal until...

2.  Falcon comes out of hyperspace and cut with more elaborate astoroid field from Empire Strikes Back.  After being chased by some fighters, they start heading towards that small moon that is clearly a small moon and nothing else.

3.  A New Hope continues until after the Tie Fighter chase, no homing becon secure aboard their ship.  The Falcon arrives on Hoth using shots from the Yavin 4 arrival digitally replaced with the snow world.

4.  Probe Droid is launched and lands on Hoth.  No Wampa scenes since this would indicate a greater passage of time than has actually occurred within the edit.  Han can't leave yet because his ship has been damaged from the prior battle.

5.  Empire continues with Han running away with Leia and Luke going to Dagobah, although how Luke knows to go there I haven't worked out yet.  I may have to find a way to work in the Wampa scenes somehow just so Luke can have his vision or maybe it can just be a dream.  Falcon is on the run minus the asteroids and no going to cloud city.  They eventually rendezvous with the fleet while Luke still trains.  No relationship develops between Han and Leia.  Since Luke and Leia won't be brother and sister in my edit, I'd rather keep leave who she ends up with up to audience interpretation.

6.  Luke finishes his training with Yoda caped off with the scene from Return of the Jedi where Yoda dies.  Certain bits will be removed for continuity purposes.

7.  Breefing room but can't decide which one to use since both have their advantages.

8.  Luke flies his X-Wing to the Death Star knowing he must confront Vader.  The scenes with the Emperor will be cut in at various points earlier to show that Luke is expected and why he is able to get past secruety so easily.  "Skywalker has just landed Lord" and "Good, see to it he finds his way here" could be dubbed in over the intercom in Vaders meditation chamber perhaps. 

9.  Luke fights Vader on the Death Star using the fight from Cloud City.  This plays out all the way except Luke doesn't allow himself to fall and he doesn't loose his hand or his lightsaber.  Luke is captured and taken to the Emperor.  Luke's lightsaber will need to be rotoscoped blue since he never built a new one.  Vader and Luke fight and the Emperor is killed.  Vader is critally injured and Luke tries to save him but Vader tells him to leave him.

10.  Luke leaves on the X-Wing and joins the Death Star battle.  This battle with consist of a combination of the Endor battle and the Yavin battle.  Han will be flying the Falcon and Luke will fly into the core with Han instead of Wedge.  At some point Vader will suprise show up to help but be destoried (or he could just fly off at the end on his own).  Leia will be in the War room from a New Hope and Tarkin will still be around at this point as well.

11.  Death Star destroyed, A New Hope medal ceremony finale from Star Wars revisited so Chewie can get his medal.

Final note:  This may seem wack but I almost want to try to set the final Death Star battle over Coruscant and use some prequel footage to have some of the Emperor scenes take place on the planet.  Then I'll keep the Coruscant victory celebration from Jedi.  Heck, the Cloud city fight could take place on Coruscant as well which might be easier to cut as I could use Cloud City as the Emperors palace or something.

I'm also thinking of using some Cloud City shots for the surface of Alderaan before it is destroyed since the cloud city designs were originally created for Alderaan but never used.

Bear in mind, still all just ideas at this point.

I've actually given serious thought to re-editing the Clone Wars series into new Episodes 1, 2, and 3.  Of course, I would wait until the series ran it's course to do this.

cutnshut said:

Hey) I was also thinking of doing something like this - but more like Rogue-theX said keeping most of the original star wars and inserting scenes from Empire and Jedi - but would love to see other people try this!

one scene i had in mind: When the falcon emerges from hyperspace to find alderaan has been destroyed, the asteroid field is practically none-existant - so i was going to use the exterior shots of the asteroid field in empire to replace the exterior shots of the ships.

although theres only the lone tie-fighter in the original star wars, id try and work out a way to involve all the ships from Empire of that scene cos its just so great to watch.

I wasn't so worried about keeping the Skywalker story intact - it would have been just like an expanded version of the original star wars film.

When our heroes resue leia from the death star - its Hoth they go to, then you get to keep that stuff and then when they leave hoth they meet up in space for the briefing from Mon Mothma et al and then go to attack the death star. There would be some tinkering to do to get it flow smoothly.

The main problem i can't resolve tho is with the 2 death stars, especially the part where Leia is rescued from the first death star - but i guess for the final battle as most of the action would be of the rebel assault from return of the jedi - you could add close up footage from of the x-wings and Y-wings from the original movie...

hmm... a lot of tinkering tho and maybe some rotoscoping would be needed to make it convincing.

Feel free to use any of those ideas if you want, id love to see someone tackle this :)

I really like the asteroid idea.  I'll keep that in mind.

Your idea actually sounds a lot like mine except I did want to include the Luke's training story and Vader duel.  Although, I could perhaps completely cut out Vader being Luke's father and just have Ben's story about Vader killing his father be true.  I don't know, I'm still a long way off from starting this.

For the Death Star, I thought I might blend the Yavin Battle with the Endor Battle to make it more epic.  That way we'll have the larger scale battle from Endor but still have the emotional impact of having Luke involved.  This would require some use of After Effects to alter the Death Star so that it will be the same in both the New Hope and Jedi footage and the planet will either need to be corrected so that it won't be red in one shot and green in another.  I'll more than likely need outside help for that part though as well as for changing the Falcons Yavin approach to Hoth.

The Empire cover is even sexier than Wars.  I can't wait to get these on my shelf.