I can’t say that I like movies being available streaming-only. It’s basically a big “screw you” to videophiles and audiophiles who crave the quality that (4K) Blu-ray discs provide. Personally, assuming no new physical disc formats are made, physical discs as a whole aren’t going to die out until 100 TB hard drives capable of storing dozens of 1:1 100GB 4k Blu-ray rips are cheap, commonplace, and the norm.
I’d like a link to the latest version please.
Due to how many films Star Wars has, and how many revisions there are, I’d like to see which dubs were made using what versions and when. While resources like this thread and this TVTropes page provide some information, but it isn’t organized in a way that I’d like. Would anybody be willing to reorganize the information into the following categories? (Due to the various changes, including in the case of Episode 4 the inclusion of some of the added 1977 35mm Mono lines (if not alternate takes), some alternate takes of its own, some added scenes as well as the fact that 20 years have passed since the original came out in theaters, Special Edition mixes will be labeled completely separately from pre-SE mixes (despecialization of SE mixes to sync to the original releases don’t count). This rule will also go for the two other movies in the original trilogy.)
Star Wars Episode 1:
-2001 DVD/HDTV (some shots removed, some shots added)
-2011 Blu-Ray (same length as DVD/HDTV. Minor audio changes, most notably the replacement of “Vote Now” with what the Star Wars wiki calls “a general uproar”)
Star Wars Episode 2:
-2002 35mm Theatrical (Has it being the basis of any dubs been confirmed? Is this what the English DTS is synced to?)
-2002 Digital Theatrical (May or may not be identical to the 2002 DVD/HDTV. Is this what the English DTS is synced to?)
-2002 IMAX Theatrical (Probably not used for a foreign language dub at all, but I could be wrong. Removed several scenes for time reasons)
-2002 DVD/HDTV (Unlike with The Phantom Menace, where the VHS and Laserdisc releases used the theatrical cut as well as some tv broadcasts, this was the only version released on VHS and may have been the only version shown on TV before 2011)
-2011 Blu-Ray (same length as DVD/HDTV, but rearranges some scenes for no apparent reason. This negatively affects the music placement, but it’s possible that some dubs “fixed” the placement to match the rearranging of the scenes)
Star Wars Episode 3:
As far as I know, there aren’t any time changes in any of the versions of this film.
-2005 Theatrical AND DVD/HDTV (There are some minor differences between the Theatrical and the DVD/HDTV masters, but nothing that affects the sound)
-2011 Blu-Ray (Minor audio changes, most notably the addition of some clone trooper dialogue during Obi-Wan’s fight with Grevious)
Star Wars Episode 4:
-1977 70mm Surround Sound AND 1977 35mm Stereo sound (Apparently almost identical in content according to the Star Wars Wikia. May have been used for some dubs)
-1977 35mm Mono Sound (The “final” mix before 1986. Was used as the source for several foreign dubs. Had several changes and additions)
-1985 Sound (Had C-3PO’s tractor beam lines from the Mono mix, but otherwise similar to the 35mm Stereo mix in content)
-1993 Sound (Produced for the Definitive Collection Laserdiscs. Similar in content to the 70mm Surround mix but added several sound effects. Most of the additions of the 1977 Mono mix are not present)
Star Wars Episode 4 Special Edition:
-1997 Special Edition (Although some non-English releases reused elements from pre-SE mixes, notably the German dub apparently, many regions restarted from scratch starting here. Had several changes compared to the original)
-2004 Special Edition (Identical in length. Unlike with Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, where the elements of the 97SE sound mixes were reused, the 2004 SE got a new audio mix… which sucked. Notable for restoring the “yes” in Han Solo’s line “Yes, I’ll bet you have.” The sounds of the lasers coming out of the guns in the Han and Greedo scene have changed to match the visual change in the scene. For some reason, some music playing during the attack on the Death Star was muted briefly. The call Obi-Wan makes to scare the sand people has changed.
-2011 Special Edition (It would’ve been idential in length to the 1997 and 2004 Special Editions if it wasn’t for the removal of at least a dozen frames in the Han vs Greedo sequence. Still based on the bad 2004 audio mix, but some of its most egregious problems have been fixed, including muted music. Obi-Wan’s call has been changed again.
Star Wars Episode 5:
-1981 70mm sound (Had a few differences from the 35mm release)
-1981 35mm sound (The main mix until 1993, though the 1993 mix isn’t nearly as notable in its changes as in the case of Episode 4)
-1981(?) 16mm sound (Somewhat rare, probably not used for anything)
Star Wars Episode 5 Special Edition:
-1997 Special Edition (Some additional shots, the inexplicable inclusion of the Emperor’s yell from Return of the Jedi when Luke rejects Vader’s offer.)
-2004 Special Edition (Audio mix wise, Episode 5 has the biggest change in SE variations compared to the other two films, mainly because the scene with the Emperor hologram was replaced and extended. On the bright side, the ROTJ yell was removed)
-2011 Special Edition (Same length as 2004 Special Edition. Audio mix changes are so minor they’re probably not worth mentioning.
Star Wars Episode 6:
There apparerntly aren’t any major differences between any of the audio mixes pre-SE.
Star Wars Episode 6 Special Edition:
-1997 Special Edition (Lapti Nek is inexplicably replaced with a cringeworthy CGI sequence. I hope you like looking inside peoples mouths! The other major change is at the end, where Yub Nub is replaced with different music and a sequence was added involving planets celebrating the fall of the Empire.)
-2004 Special Edition (The Victory Celebration montage has an additional scene showing Naboo. Otherwise there weren’t really any notable changes from an audio perspective.)
-2011 Special Edition (Same length as 2004 Special Edition, but the audio mix has the cringeworthy addition of Vador shouting “No!” right before grabbing the Emperor.)
I know you didn’t post a 4K version of your Single Reel Correction 4k77, but when your shot for shot color correction comes out, could you please release it in 4K as well as 1080p?
You do realize that the five star collection version is a bootleg of the laserdisc, right? It wouldn’t surprise me at all if modern encodes of said laserdisc are far superior to said bootleg.
That all the telecines before the Definitive Collection have the reel change/cigarette burn (two terms for the same circular marks) and the fresh interpositive widely reported as the source for the Definitive Collection doesn’t just means that it really is a fresh print.
“Cigarette burn” is not a term for the changeover cues. They were frictionally called that in Fight Club
(insert Magic School Bus Plays Ball “stranger than friction” gif here)
99.9% of all frames from one 35mm Eastman print struck directly from the original negative in 1983. The remaining 175 frames are from an alternate 35mm print. No missing frames. All frames are from 35mm prints scanned at 4K. 4k83 even has the two theatrical frames that are missing from the GOUT. 100% of frames as seen in theatres in 1983.
The 175 frames were needed because of a scanning glitch during the main print capture else all would have been from the one print.
4k83 even has the two theatrical frames that are missing from the GOUT. 100% of frames as seen in theatres in 1983.
So… how is GOUT audio syncing handled?
Huh. Weird that the SSE would show more image than the 4K77, but the 4K83 shows more picture than the other releases…so I take it the Harmy’s Grindhouse showed less image than even the 2011 SE?
On a side note, what were the film sources used for 4K83, and how were missing frames (if any) handled?
Damn, it hasn’t even been a year since 4k77 was released. With any luck, 4k80 will arrive before Valentine’s Day 2019!
On a different note, how does the cropping compare with (among other releases) Harmy’s Grindhouse 35mm, Harmy’s Despecialized 2.0, and the 2011 SE Blu-Ray? I remember that @ZigZag compared a frame from ANH here and it showed that the Star Wars SSE had moments of showing more frame than 4K77 did. I’d like to know if something similar is going on between 4K83 and Harmy’s Grindhouse.
So, Article 11 and Article 13 have passed the vote from a couple days ago. I take it that due to the very nature of this website, it’s going to region blocked in the entirety of the EU. Somehow I don’t think the people who wanted Article 13 past had good copyright “infringement” (like all the 35mm preservations this site talks about) in mind. TBH, I don’t think anybody had that kind of thing in mind. This law is probably going to make fan preservations in the EU impossible without a good proxy/vpn to bypass the EU’s internet restrictions.
I know that this movie is fairly recent (only about 8 years old) and was made digital to begin with, but I just found this link on eBay and I was thinking some people might want it preserved.
Of course, there are other 35mm films that ought to be purchased by this and similar communities, but I was struck by how good it looked compared to some of the others.
Wait a minute… Star Trek TNG’s film source was at 30 fps? For the whole series?
This is pretty cool!
Maybe it can be used to re-composite various special effects digitally ALA the Special Editions for a new kind of Semi Specialized cut
How does one over multiple video sources anyways?
Why is it syncing to the Laserdisc audio and not the Cinema DTS? Just curious.
Thanks for the information, but I’m pretty sure I need info straight from the horses mouth for my friend to be convined.
@Handman I’m not sure if I really “returned”, as I can’t say whether I plan on returning as a regular poster or not.
Not “in person”… in a Discord chat lol.
Hi! I’ve been under the impression that the 1997 Special Edition only had select shots scanned from film to 2K for editing purposes. However, a friend of mine is convinced that the 1997 SE originated in its entirety from a finalized 2K master… on the grounds that “Otherwise, the transitions between the digitally-assembled shots, and the authentic film shots would be awful” and “Either it’s digitally restored, or it’s all just a newly-struck film copy. The latter wouldn’t make sense at all.”
I need specific sources that prove either my theory or my friend’s theory right. Can you guys provide?
“no home release ever had the subs burned in.” So the VHS releases don’t count then?
So…is this more detailed or less detailed compared to other major preservations like the Neverar Technicolor version of the 2004/2011 SE? Is every frame that’s in the GOUT accounted for here?
If the 97 mix is overall superior, you might as well just patch in the 2011 audio for that one scene (meaning starting at “Yes, I bet you have” and ending after the lasers are fired)
From what I remember reading on this site, “(yes) I bet you have” aside, the 97 mix was vastly superior to even the 2011 mix when it came to ANH.
Against earlier judgment, I decided to finally start posting in originaltrilogy.com again…if only to ask this question.
I imagine that for Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi it’s going to be almost entirely (if not entirely) the 2011 sound mixes you’re using, but considering how many view the 2004/2011 sound mixes of A New Hope to be inferior to the 1997 DTS mix for various reasons, do you plan on using a mixture of the 1997 and 2011 mixes for the audio (mainly using the audio from the 1997 sound mix except for instances where the 2011 mix has additions/changes like “We stopped.” “Tell (your) uncle” “(Yes,) I bet you have” (and subsequently how the 2011 version handles the Han vs Greedo shootout) and “There’s no one here”, and perhaps if the 2004/2011 mixes have sound effects the 1997 mix doesn’t (I think the sounds for when the Millennium Falcon leaves hyperspace in what once was the Alderann system are different there, and I’m sure the echo effects in the grappling hook swinging scene are different))?
The features mentioned in the title were ones that Original Trilogy had before the big move, as well as ones available at most forums.
I want to return to OT after being away for so long, but as long as these three features are missing, the interface will remain unusable.
I don’t mind things being silly. I thought pretty much all of the Afterworld Tournament filler arc was awesome.
To me, the Buu saga was very uneven. I didn’t like the idea of Goten and Trunks being Super Saiyans. I probably would have only accepted them being SSJ1 only as Gotenks, and not allow them to reach SSJ2, let alone SSJ3. That said, Gotenks vs Super Buu is a hilariously awesome fight.
One scene I remember is when we see Buu lift people off the ground and turn them into candy, in a very stylized, cartoonish way, as if it was all harmless fun, and then we see the destruction, the devastation, the hopelessness. If the Buu saga wasn’t so silly, it probably would have been the darkest DBZ ever gotten, and in a way it still is.
The Great Saiyaman saga got old really fast.
As for the movies that I have seen (not counting Father of Goku or History of Trunks, both really good btw)…
Dead Zone and Tree of Might were both very good, but had rushed endings. World’s Strongest seems forgettable. Lord Slug managed to rip off both the King Piccolo saga and Tree of Might and manage to be worse than both of them. I didn’t like how Namekians can’t stand Human whistling, though it does give the Speedy dub one of its most memorable lines.
I thought Cooler’s second movie was better than the first. Super Android 13 is the worst of all of the dbz movies that I saw so far. Thankfully, Abridged redeems it. I loved the first half of the first Broly movie, but once it got to the fighting, it got boring quickly. Bojack Unchained was really good most of the time, but I didn’t like how the climax ripped off the climax of the Cell saga. Broly Second Coming is trash. Bio-Broly, while not the best DBZ film, is not the worst either. In fact, I thought it had the best fights out of the three Broly Films. Fusion Reborn felt just like the saga it was trying to imitate. It had unique and funny fights, and it had the same pacing issues that the Buu saga had. IIRC it had a better climax though.