Going by the current Youtubez fad there is almost certainly a video called, “The Map to Skywalker EXPLAINED!”
Unlike most of those other videos, it would actually be useful, since the movie doesn’t explain it.
My parents showed me the movies on VHS when I was about 4, back in 1989 or 1990.
It breaks my heart hearing about people being introduced via the special editions or the prequels.
Interesting stuff. Where did you find the 1973 synopsis?
Why is it necessary to explain to Luke about the map?
sigh Does anyone know how I can change the title of this thread?
I really despise the “R2 downloading the map from the Death Star” explanation. My headcanon is that Luke intended for Lor San Tekka to bring Rey into the fold at some point like Obi-Wan did with Luke and send her to Leia with the map. R2 was programmed to wake up when Rey registered on whatever sensors he’s got going on while he’s in standby mode, hence why he only comes to life when Rey arrives on D’Qar. Lor San Tekka entrusts the map to Poe at the beginning of the film because he sees that the shit is about to hit the fan, and either he wasn’t aware Rey’s presence being necessary for R2 to work or he intended to reach out to her after the fact and send her to the Resistance if Kylo hadn’t killed him. It isn’t airtight, but it makes some amount of sense for Tekka to ditch the original plan to keep the map out of enemy hands.
Well, unfortunately, that’s not what the filmmakers intended. There’s already a canon explanation, and it’s in the TFA novelization.
Huh, I always called it the tan-TEEV four.
For those who didn’t watch, they pronounce it TAN-ti-vee four, where the middle syllable is a short “i” sound.
That sounds dumb.
It’s my favorite gag in the film.
It will never be the same after you watch Rogue One…
Why?
ANH:
Changes I Liked:
Basically everything on-board the Death Star
Adding the Millennium Falcon to the landing shot on Yavin IV
CGI shot of Rebel fighters taking off
The Luke-Biggs reunion scene
Changes I Hated:
All CGI additions to the Tatooine scenes
The horrible new Krayt dragon scream
Greedo shooting first
ESB
Changes I Liked:
Correcting the uniform pips on some of the Imperial officers
Changes I Hated:
"You were lucky to get out of there"
Altering the dialogue between Vader and the Emperor
Almost all of the Cloud City changes (the Tibanna gas mine in an establishing shot doesn’t bother me)
Changing Boba Fett’s voice
Vader’s shuttle to the star destroyer
ROTJ
Changes I Liked:
Adding ropes to Han’s ankles
New ending music
Short deleted scene of Luke hugging Wedge during the celebration
Changes I Hated:
Hayden Christiansen
Jedi Rocks
All CGI additions for the scenes on Tatooine
CGI celebration scenes
"NOOOOO!!!"
I feel pretty neutral about the rest of the changes (Wampa, extra stars added to the sky as R2 is taken to the sandcrawler, extra detail on the Yavin base, etc)
I always assumed it was Rey who triggers R2’s wake.
Here’s another plothole for episode 4: if Leia knew they had a tracking device on the Millenium Falcon, why did they go straight to the rebel base? Why not go to some moon, rendez vous with some rebels and use the MF as a lure later on.
According to the people who made the movie, you’re wrong. But I don’t blame you for assuming that, because the movie didn’t make their intentions clear.
That’s the filmmakers explanation and you can take it or leave it. The official, in-universe explanation is still open to a different explanation.
Since the explanation about R2 getting the map from the Death Star computer is their intent, I doubt they’re going to clarify it any further. But if they do, then great, problem solved. As I’ve said again and again, if they leave it as it is, without any further explanation in later films, I think it is a problem. If they go into it in further detail later on, I think it’s fine.
Regarding the details of the Republic and First Order, you’re right, at least the movie has clues so you can kind of piece it together. There’s literally nothing in the movie that suggests that R2 got the map from the Death Star, or that he “heard BB-8 in his coma” and slowly woke up as a result.
Cthulhunicron said:
Do a few searches on the internet, you’ll see a lot of people were confused about various things in TFA.That’s true but there are very few things in there can’t be explained or inferred and the rest are too important not to be brought up in VIII. Adam Driver recently said that there will be things in VIII that will make both movies make sense so I think a lot of your concerns/confusion will be alleviated.
As I’ve said before, if everything is cleared up in later films, then no problem. But a lot of people were saying “how R2 got the map is irrelevant.” If it’s never explained, then I think it’s an issue. I watched the movie three times, and I never once got the slightest hint that R2 had the map because he plugged into the Death Star’s computer, or that R2 woke up because of BB-8 asking him about the map.
And honestly, it does seem weird to me that the Empire had a map to the original Jedi temple, and the New Republic never added this map to their records in 33 years of access to Imperial computers. But whatever…
I always assumed it was Rey who triggers R2’s wake.
Here’s another plothole for episode 4: if Leia knew they had a tracking device on the Millenium Falcon, why did they go straight to the rebel base? Why not go to some moon, rendez vous with some rebels and use the MF as a lure later on.
According to the people who made the movie, you’re wrong. But I don’t blame you for assuming that, because the movie didn’t make their intentions clear. TFA is kind of vague about a lot of stuff. I don’t really understand why Leia’s forces are called The Resistance and not simply “The Republic Army.” The movie doesn’t really make it very clear which force is dominant in the galaxy, First Order or New Republic/Resistance. Do a few searches on the internet, you’ll see a lot of people were confused about various things in TFA.
Your “plot hole” about the tracking device isn’t the same thing because ANH isn’t made confusing because they don’t address why they don’t stop to do something about it. It can easily be explained - Han may not believe her about the tracking device; Leia isn’t 100% sure there is a tracking device; if they stop somewhere, they may not be able to contact the rebels and arrange a meeting before the Death Star catches up with them, etc. Either way, it’s a minor minor detail, and what they’re planning on doing (beating the Death Star to Yavin, giving the plans to the rebels to find a weakness, launch an attack) works and it makes sense. The vagueness in TFA actually makes parts of the story confusing, and people walked away with different ideas than what was intended by the filmmakers.
Oh, right. Sorry, it’s been a few months since I’ve seen it.
Btw, I was Googling “why does R2D2 have the map” and I found this: http://ew.com/article/2015/12/20/jj-abrams-answers-burning-question-about-r2-d2-star-wars-force-awakens/
"“But the idea was that in that scene where R2 plugged in, he downloaded the archives of the Empire, which was referenced by Kylo Ren,” Abrams said. Thirty-eight years later, in both our own and galactic time, that data becomes useful in The Force Awakens when a new droid approaches the dormant R2.
“BB-8 comes up and says something to him, which is basically, ‘I’ve got this piece of a map, do you happen to have the rest?’” Abrams said. “The idea was, R2 who has been all over the galaxy, is still in his coma, but he hears this. And it triggers something that would ultimately wake him up.”"
Honestly, I think this could have been made a little more clear, but I feel better now knowing the writers’ intent.
I’m curious also why Lor San Tekka decided to give the map to Po Dameron, if Luke was trying to stay hidden.
Why does R2 have the map? Why does Lor San Tekka have a fragment? Legitimate questions. Will they be answered? Who knows.
Why doesn’t the Resistance have the same map? Don’t give a shit.
I agree, if we’re supposed to understand that the map is previously uncharted space. It’s just that I’m not sure what the movie is trying to convey. It was my understanding at first that the map was created by people working for the resistance, searching for Luke. But then I remembered that R2’s had the map since before he went offline, so that can’t be it.
My main point, is that if, by episode 9, it is never explained where R2’s portion of the map came from, I think that’s an issue. I think it’s equally as important as learning where Lor San Tekka’s portion came from, or learning where Rey came from. In other words, I’m fine with it, as long as it’s presently meant to be mysterious.
But if we’re just supposed to understand that R2 has the map because he had access to imperial records from the Death Star or something, I don’t see why the Resistance wouldn’t have the same records after 30 years of access to abandoned Imperial bases and ships.
Look, I’m fine with certain minor things in the Star Wars universe not making complete logical sense. I mean, it seems like it’d be a lot easier if astromech droids just spoke English (Arabesh? whatever…) rather than bleeps and whistles, but who cares?
The movie straight up tells us that the resistance does not have a map of that region of space, so the fragment from Lor San Tekka is meaningless without context. Then R2 spontaneously reactivates and reveals he has the full map minus that one fragment. It seems to me like something that needs an explanation.
I could have sworn BB-8 put the last piece in…
He did, because there was a piece missing. Like I said, R2 “reveals he has the full map minus that one fragment.”
I thought you said “plus” that one fragment. My mistake.
But in regards to:
Cthulhunicron said:
The movie straight up tells us that the resistance does not have a map of that region of space, so the fragment from Lor San Tekka is meaningless without context.I’m not exactly sure how it can be meaningless if that was the final piece that completed the map. That seems pretty damn meaningful to me or am is there something I’m missing?
I said it was meaningless until they had the context. Threepio initially looks at the map and says it doesn’t match any of their records. It’s only when R2 reveals the full map that they are able to figure out where Luke’s final destination is in relation to charted space.
Look, I’m fine with certain minor things in the Star Wars universe not making complete logical sense. I mean, it seems like it’d be a lot easier if astromech droids just spoke English (Arabesh? whatever…) rather than bleeps and whistles, but who cares?
The movie straight up tells us that the resistance does not have a map of that region of space, so the fragment from Lor San Tekka is meaningless without context. Then R2 spontaneously reactivates and reveals he has the full map minus that one fragment. It seems to me like something that needs an explanation.
I could have sworn BB-8 put the last piece in…
He did, because there was a piece missing. Like I said, R2 “reveals he has the full map minus that one fragment.”
Look, I’m fine with certain minor things in the Star Wars universe not making complete logical sense. I mean, it seems like it’d be a lot easier if astromech droids just spoke English (Arabesh? whatever…) rather than bleeps and whistles, but who cares?
The movie straight up tells us that the resistance does not have a map of that region of space, so the fragment from Lor San Tekka is meaningless without context. Then R2 spontaneously reactivates and reveals he has the full map minus that one fragment. It seems to me like something that needs an explanation.
Either someone (possibly Luke, possibly someone else) knew where Luke was going and put an incomplete version of the map in R2 (why?). Or someone tracked Luke’s journey, created the map, and put it in R2 without telling anyone else in the Resistance (again, why?).
How is not major? It’d be like if the original Star Wars never explained what the Death Star weakness was.
It’s hard for me to believe that if the Empire and the First Order had a map of that region of space, but the Resistance didn’t. After the fall of the Empire, the Rebels would have had access to many imperial bases, ships, computers, records, etc.
Also, I don’t see how R2 could have had the map before Luke left because the map has a line showing which planets Luke has been to. I mean, maybe it’s a map that Luke found, and the line is showing the migrations of the ancient Jedi or whatever, but that’s never stated in the film. I also don’t see why he would leave that in R2 before he left if he was trying to prevent anyone from following him.
This seems like a pretty big plot point to me, since the entire plot of TFA revolves around one fragment of this map. I mean, who knows, maybe this is all explained in the next movie…but if it’s not, I think it’s a major plot hole.
I’ve always seen SW as more of a fantasy saga. So while, in the real world, it wouldn’t necessarily jive with our concept of maps (which cover everything), in a mysterious fantasy galaxy, its a bit different. Lots of spots in the galaxy are uncharted, just like lots of spots on a map of the earth in a medieval fantasy film would be, or any other sort of older setting (like the wild west or the high seas or something).
I agree. My issue is that they state that Max Von Sydow’s map doesn’t match anything in their records. Then R2 rolls out at the end, and it matches. So R2 had a map that no one else in the galaxy had. So evidently all of that space was uncharted until some mysterious person made the map and gave it to R2, apparently WHILE he was turned off. It seems odd that no one reacts to this. At least when they find Luke’s lightsaber, characters at least wonder aloud where it came from.
Cthulhunicron said:
A - If the first fragment doesn’t match any known records, then at least the parts of Artoo’s map (if not the entire thing) surrounding that gap would also have to be uncharted. It’s like saying “we have a map of the United States, but there’s a mysterious gap between Utah and Kansas.”I don’t think that analogy really works. The gap between star systems is exponentially bigger than the size of the gap between Utah and Kansas. Unless you know exactly where that star system is you’re probably going to miss it if you go into that uncharted territory blind.
C - If Artoo has been shut down since Luke left, how can he be in possession of a map tracking his journey? Furthermore, if he had the map this whole time, why didn’t he tell anyone? Sure, it wouldn’t give Luke’s precise location, but they would still be given a major clue. Going back to my US map analogy, you wouldn’t have Colorado mapped out, but you at least know he’d be between Utah and Kansas.
These are good questions and I’m thinking perhaps it may be tied to Rey being present but I don’t even believe that with strong conviction.
I guess that does make sense. I think the reason this all struck me as being odd is that first they say “this map doesn’t match anything we have” then R2 comes out and all of a sudden, it matches. Which means that R2 has a different map than what C3P0 was looking at. It just seemed like kind of a major plot point to just gloss over. Maybe it will be explained in later movies, but I have this horrible feeling it won’t.
I’ve watched this movie three times, and the map still doesn’t make sense to me.
The map that Po retrieves from Jakku is a fragment of a larger map. Threepio says it doesn’t match any of the Republic’s records, so this is apparently uncharted space (at least as far as the republic is concerned).
Artoo has been in low power mode since Luke left. Later, Artoo revives and reveals he possesses the complete map of Luke’s journey, complete with a line showing which planets he’s been to. There’s a convenient blank spot in the map, in which the earlier map fragment fits.
This doesn’t make a lot of sense to me because
A - If the first fragment doesn’t match any known records, then at least the parts of Artoo’s map (if not the entire thing) surrounding that gap would also have to be uncharted. It’s like saying “we have a map of the United States, but there’s a mysterious gap between Utah and Kansas.”
B - So clearly somebody charted all this space, but we don’t know who. Possibly Leia’s agents, but it seems like they’d be relaying this information back to her on a regular basis. We know this can’t be the case because the first fragment doesn’t match their records. Maybe this will be explained in later movies?
C - If Artoo has been shut down since Luke left, how can he be in possession of a map tracking his journey? Furthermore, if he had the map this whole time, why didn’t he tell anyone? Sure, it wouldn’t give Luke’s precise location, but they would still be given a major clue. Going back to my US map analogy, you wouldn’t have Colorado mapped out, but you at least know he’d be between Utah and Kansas.
Yeah, that was kinda my thought. It just says "sources" tell them that they're releasing the OOT. I've been seeing people posting this on Facebook like it's gospel truth, but I'm remaining skeptical until we hear something official from Disney. Just wasn't sure if you guys had heard anything.
EDIT: Oh yeah, you're right about the date. I saw this article linked from some other article that had a date of 3/13/15.
Thoughts?
skyjedi2005 said:
It is entirely reasonable to believe with only Star Wars in the can that a great deal had to be created on the fly.
I don't get why it is so controversial, except that starting in the 90's Lucas pretended he had all 9 films in his head and then on paper from the beginning.
Does anyone have a link to an interview of George Lucas stating that he had the whole story planned out from the beginning?