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Commander Courage

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16-Aug-2004
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1-Oct-2015
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Post
#147207
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/147207/action/topic#147207
Time
Part 1: Excellent! I take it you replaced the PT sound effects? While I don't see what the fuss is all about (MF did a similar thing in BotF) they sound good, and the editing here is a lot smother than that in AotC. Is that the final music? I know I've heard it before but I just can't place it (SW I know, but from AotC?).

Part 2: The only really jarring thing was the reverse footage of Obi-Wan locked in with Dooku. Maybe I'm just so used to the offical version, but it looks odd.

EDIT: Nevermind, it just clicked (watching it again...and again ) The trench run from ANH? Hmmm. I think the duel calls for something different.
Post
#147198
Topic
MLB
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/147198/action/topic#147198
Time
I am a proud Houstonian and a die hard Houston Astros fan. The game on Sunday vs. the Braves was one for the ages, and will propel the 'Stros past the Cardinals into the World Series. Their momentum is in their favor immeasurably, as there's a big difference between sweeping the pathetic Padres and beating the Braves culminating in one of the greatest games in baseball history. Go Astros!
Post
#147194
Topic
The Skywalker Legacy (working title) (* unfinished project *)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/147194/action/topic#147194
Time
This is looking better and better!

Very creative way to show Vader fighting Anakin. Traditionally everyone had thought it was Obi-Wan and Anakin vs. Vader, and the latter two fell into a volcano. Vader would survive though, resulting in his need for the life support suit. A suited Vader fighting them and killing Anakin, while a necessuty for a project of this nature, is something that had never crossed my mind before. Blending the RotS and RotJ duels works wonderfully due to the almost identical locaitons, but if I may suggest your shot of Vader arriving, instead of the one you posted from ESB, a shot from RotJ when he travels up the elevator to see the Emperor.
Post
#144500
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/144500/action/topic#144500
Time
We seem to be on the same wavelength on this, TM. Good deal.

I really don't know about Qui-Gon disspearing in the fire. My reasoning is the same as yours, "I just don’t like the idea that Qui-Gon died, and somehow after he was dead he managed to find out how to come back as a ghost in his original form. I like the idea that during his life, he worked towards discovering this secret so that when he died, he was able to fade away." But something as significant as that would surely be worth a mention, which of course would be absent. All that aside, if you're going to go for it, showing Qui-Gon dissapear on-screen is the way to do it. If not, it's TOO ambiguous. So in the final shot of Qui-Gon burning, he would fade away, then Yoda and Mace discuss the Sith, omninous shot of Palpatine, cut to end celebration. Of course, we have plenty of time to work this out. Btw, all you can see in RotJ is Vader's burning armor, no physical Anakin.

Ha ha- I know how it would work. After I read that, I realized how this would work. And it’s going to be so spectacularly creepy that I don’t even want to give it away yet. I will say that this will work VERY well and will make the story that much richer. Also, think “Vertigo” again (although that probably won’t help.) Anyway, thank you for some MAJOR inspiration.
Your welcome. I look forward to seeing where you go with this.

Also, thinking ahead to that scene, as much as everyone praises the music for that scene as being the highest emotional point for them, etc. etc- I really don’t like it, believe it or not. It was interesting the first time because it was a novel and completely different approach, but I would like to rescore this with something more sad/beautiful in romantic style. This will likely be an unpopular change- oh, well.
On the soundtrack it is a very powerful piece, but I thought in the context of the film the music was a bit downplayed and not loud enough. I do think it would be excellent accompanying Obi-Wan's death in ANH...

If MagnoliaFan or AdigitalMan want to take a stab at it, then perhaps I can use the scene if it works out in their versions. But I don’t know how to go about replacing both Yoda and Qui-gon dialogue.
Right, no one seems to realize this when discussing editing together the scene themselves. I have a feeling MagnoliaFan will be able to put something together.

Maybe I could even put some kind of non-talking on-screen Qui-Gon ghost image by Yoda.

Well if we're keeping Qui-Gon's role the same as Obi-Wan's in ANH, he should not be able to manifest himself physically. Which leads me too...

If I were to put an image of Qui-Gon in the Mustafar scene, he would not talk. He would shimmer in the background maybe, but he would not talk to Anakin. More likely than actually putting his ghost there would be to have Anakin cry out for Qui-Gon’s help as he burns. Qui-Gon doesn’t answer as Anakin screams in pain and calls for Qui-Gon. I can do this due to the dubbing.

I DO like this parallel to Luke in ESB. However, there's not really an existing shot to do this, and again, Qui-Gon shouldn't be able to be seen as a spirit. Anakin calling for Qui-Gon would be heartwrenchingly tragic, but if he does not see him it would make little sense. Of course if he has continued to communicate with him through dreams and whatnot, it might make perfect sense...

...because it addresses the whole lack of an emotional climax for Anakin in that story. The final version of that movie should be that Anakin can feel Qui Gon's guidance through the Force and that when he FEELS Qui Gon DIE, he lets loose with those torpedos. He cuts loose with his first bit of anger and murder because of Qui Gon's death. I don't know how to do it yet, but the changes you suggest get us a little further down that road.

That has definite possibilities as well. And you're right about Anakin's climax, it's non-existent. He's just a kid over his head who gets lucky. It should be very much like Luke's space battle and trench run in ANH, and I'm sure we can think of an effective and feasible way to make it so.
Post
#143753
Topic
Comics Fans
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/143753/action/topic#143753
Time
See, I think Joe Chill is a bad idea. The Wayne murderer should be nameless and faceless, as Batman sees (subconciously at least) each criminal he fights and brings in as his parents' killer. That said, in the context of the 1989 film, Jack Napier being their murderer works. Not only does it make everything very theatrical, and establishes Batman's personal vendetta against the Joker that couldn't be developed in a 2 hour film the way it could in 50 years of comics. For that instance and that instance only, I think it was a good creative change. But what do I know, I'm one of the few people who likes "Batman" better than "Batman Begins."
Post
#143494
Topic
Unbearable HC
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/143494/action/topic#143494
Time
I agree that Padme appearing beside Anakin makes no sense in regards to how the Jedi become Force Spirits. The problem here is that in the OT, the only main character-good guys that died were Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Anakin. Their appearence at the end of RotJ could be interpreted as Luke glimpsing the afterlife, where everyone had a happy ending.

In the PT however, we've got beloved characters dying all over the place. Qui-Gon, Shmi, Mace, Padme, etc. Padme in particular in that her and Anakin's love played such a vital role in the prequels, and of course her being the mother of Luke and Leia. Now we get to the ending of RotJ and see the familar 3 spirits, but what are we to think of the rest of our deceased friends? Are they simply lost to oblivion? If that is the case, it is especially tragic for Padme, whose love with Anakin fueled the actions that lead to both their downfalls. And what good is the afterlife if you cannot share it with those you love most? Star Wars is a fairy tale, and thus should have a fairy tale ending in which the characters live happily ever after, in this life and the next.

So those are my thoughts, but realistically, I cannot see any more alterations being done other than the ones I layed out before (old to young spirits, Qui-Gon), if only for the confusion they would cause.
Post
#143499
Topic
Smallville
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/143499/action/topic#143499
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
What was that episode about where Reeves showed up in a wheelchair?

First of all it's Reeve. Second of all that's very tasteless. Third of all he was in two episodes, and another dealt with his death. Those are some of Smallville's best episodes.

I'm a huge fan of this show, though I still hold by Season 1 was the best. After that they got carried away with Clark & Lana, Red Kryptonite, memory loss, and altered behavior episodes. Seasons 2 &3 were still good, though the show took an overall nosedive in Season 4. There were moments of greatness, but as a whole it just wasn't very good. Lois Lane is a big problem on the show; she is shoe-horned in unecessarily just show they can advertise "Lois Lane! Lois Lane!" I'm of the opinion Chloe should have evolved into Lois, but that's a whole nother discussion.

Season 5 looks to be very exciting, especially with a season long villain in Brainiac. The Clark & Lana overkill will hurt the show (again), but with so much going on around it hopefully it won't take over. Oh, and did anyone notice the footage from Superman: The Movie in Clark's Kryptonian education? Behind all the symbols there were shots of the Council dome, Clark's spaceship escaping, and Kryptonians falling to their deaths. Very nice touch.

Post
#143160
Topic
Comics Fans
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/143160/action/topic#143160
Time
Originally posted by: Han Solo VS Indiana Jones
Actually I hear that Stephen Sommers, director of the Mummy films and the craptacular Van Helsing, is currently working on a live action adaptation of Captain Marvel, tentively titled "Shazam!"

Considering the Mummy connection, I think Brendan Fraser would be a great Captain Marvel.

As for All-Star Batman and Robin, it's all wrong. And I know it's a new interpretation and all that, but the Graysons being shot? Dick on the run from the Police? Batman (not Bruce Wayne) taking in Dick the night of his parents death? Wrong, wrong, wrong.
Post
#143059
Topic
<strong>The &quot;ADigitalMan Special Editions&quot; DVD Info and Feedback Thread</strong> (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/143059/action/topic#143059
Time
Yes, whoever provided Qui-Gon's voice in TPM video game and Clone Wars cartoon was very good.

That said, recasting is an awful thing. Especially going from Liam Neeson to some no name voice actor. Of course apparently he did have Ben Burtt experimenting altering his voice digitally and that didn't work out, and if they were going to do that, they might as well have given the guy from Clone Wars a call.
Post
#143055
Topic
<strong>The Official Greencapt 'Batman &amp; Robin: De-Assified' Edit thread</strong> (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/143055/action/topic#143055
Time
I like Batman Forever for what it was. Of course it would have been nice for Burton, Keaton, and Elfman to return with the Williams as Two-Face (Billy Dee) and Riddler (Robin). Batman is by far the best of the old franchise, with BR and BF tying for second. They are both equally mediocre in different ways. B&R does not even deserve a mention.
Post
#143046
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/143046/action/topic#143046
Time
Originally posted by: Trooperman
And at this point, I would like to have a discussion about the lack of the Yoda/Qui-Gon scene on the DVD for inclusion in Episode III. This irks me because now, it looks as though there will be no explanation of how to become a force ghost. Maybe a simpler solution is called for…

Maybe, all Jedi can talk to other force-trained people after their deaths. But perhaps Obi-Wan is the first one to figure out how to actually come back as a ghost, and that’s why he disappears and Qui-Gon doesn’t. The fact that he’s a walking, talking ghost is of course revealed in Empire Strikes Back- he’s a ghost. This way, the audience who is watching these in order is also wondering what Obi-Wan means by “I will become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.”

If I decided to go with this approach, then it would make sense for Qui-Gon to chime in throughout Ep. II and Ep. III at key moments, just as Obi-Wan did in SW. I know it isn’t a great solution, but what can you do under these circumstances? A total lack of an explanation of how Jedi walk and talk after death. My other thought was to actually make Qui-Gon disappear in Episode I. But then, I couldn’t use the burning scene, which is a must. I know this isn’t an Episode III edit thread, but this applies to Episode II and in fact the whole trilogy because I might be having to find things for Qui-Gon to say to Anakin/Obi-Wan in this one. I would love to hear comments and solutions to this problem. Because frankly, I’m confused even in the official scenario:

Qui-Gon doesn’t disappear.
The other Jedi that die don’t disappear.
Obi-Wan disappears.
Yoda disappears.
Vader doesn’t disappear.

If Qui-Gon figured out the key to all this, then why was his body left behind? Also, Vader doesn’t disappear, yet HE shows up as a ghost at the end. (BTW, Sebastian Shaw is Anakin in ROTJ). Why? And incidentally, why doesn’t Qui-Gon say anything after death in any of the 6 movies, to anyone? Or mentioned by Yoda? (beyond the fact that Qui-Gon wasn’t conceptualized back then.

Maybe someone could help me sort this mess out.

This should make for good discussion; since learning about the DVD situation, I've put a lot of thought into it. Qui-Gon is my favorite (or one of my favorite) characters in Star Wars, and Liam Neeson is my favorite actor. That said, I am a bit biased. As for the official situation, I am very dissapointed that Liam Neeson refused to complete his scene in RotS. Even more so that this apparent animosity between Neeson and Lucas was swept under the rug so to speak, as for AotC it was said nothing new was needed from Neeson, but RotS would be more complicated. Then we get both of them dropping hints that Qui-Gon would be back, offical reports that he'd be in the movie, and an actual scene. But it seems Neeson was never going to return after having a bad experience with TPM. Now you can't really blame him for not liking Episode 1, but being a professional I'd hoped he would at least come back for his five minute scene in Episode 3.

All that "real world" stuff aside, I still think Qui-Gon can become an essential part of the saga, thus helping tie the prequels together into a true trilogy. Being such a favorite of mine, I was very happy with to hear he would be the key to the unanswered question of Force Spirits. The hint in AotC could have been handled better (NO!), but RotS looked like it would be a great scene. But alas, it was not to be, and all we get is a name drop explanation to Obi-Wan. The way I see it there are 2 (well 3) ways to address the problem:

1) Leave Qui-Gon's role in the saga as is. He dies in TPM, but retains a mystical connection to Yoda from the netherworld, and teaches him and Obi-Wan the secret of immortality.

2) Expand Qui-Gon's role in the saga. I have many an idea on how to do this, very much along the lines of what you were suggesting TM. This can get very extensive, or only a few extra bits here and there. Restoring the official RotS scene is a must any way you cut it though. More on this later.

3) Reduce Qui-Gon's role in the saga. As much as I may disagree with this option, it frustrates me how much it make sense. It hadn't occured to me either until MagnoliaFan was laying out his ways to deal with the Qui-Gon situation, and one of them was to just totally cut him from 2 and 3. Edit out his 3 words in AotC, and cut the last scene before Yoda stops Obi-Wan to talk to him about it. Problem "solved"? Maybe. Everything is left a mystery, and we never heard from or about Qui-Gon after his death.

In your break-down of the offical scenario, there is no doubt Lucas left himself some plotholes. What else is new? I've read that in early screening of TPM, Qui-Gon's body did indeed dissapear in the fire. This would be something to consider, but then what about everyone watching? Surely now that it's been established Jedi DON'T dissapear, there would be some sort of reaction if Jinn did. Anakin SHOULD have dissapeared, it even says he did in the Star Wars Databank, but Lucas' offical explanation (at least in The Annotated Screenplays) is that Obi-Wan and Yoda caught him on the other side. Of course he also said the "real" reason was that we wanted all the heroes of the PT to be together again, which is why I'm all for adding Qui-Gon (and maybe even Padme) to RotJ. But that discussion is for another time. But Anakin dissapearing is definitely something I would change; he's the Chosen One, that's explanation enough.

And while I do indeed support expanding Qui-Gon's role, it would be in a different way that Obi-Wan's life after death, as MTHaslett already pointed out. The problem with what I think you were getting at, TM, was that there can be no conversaions between Qui-Gon and the characters. This puts him in a very similar position as Obi-Wan in ANH after his death. He communicates with Luke in extreme moments, but they aren't chatting it up and we don't have Luke questioning how he's talking to him. In fact, Luke seems to not believe it himself at first. Here are some places I think dialogue from Qui-Gon would be approriate and meaningful:
-At some point during the space battle, when Anakin fires the torpedoes into the reactor for example, have Qui-Gon in his head: "Concentrate on the moment. Feel, don't think. Use your instincts." Qui-Gon is straddling life and death here, so this could be interpreted as either a rememberance (he told Anakin this before the pod race), Force user-to-Force user communication (Luke and Vader at the end of ESB), or advice from the netherworld (Obi-Wan in ANH).
-When Obi-Wan is hanging in the pit, have Qui-Gon is his head: "Always be mindful of your surroundings." Then he remembers Jinn's lightsaber is still there and leaps up to kill Maul. That could be interpreted as the latter two options from above.
-I thought about having Qui-Gon die after "Promise me you will train the boy," (assumming you would keep that line), then have "He will bring balance. Train him," echo in the long shot, in Obi-Wan's head I assume. But that might be a little weird.
-I mentioned this before, but perhaps have some of Qui-Gon's tone poem in Anakin's head at the funeral. "It will be a hard life. One without reward, without remorse, without regret." This would tie-in with the dream in your Episode 2, but again it might be a bit out of place.
-Qui-Gon dissapearing in the fire? Again, logically there would be some kind of reaction/response, so I'd say leave this as-is.
-Qui-Gon starts off the dream in SotDS.
-You know thinking about it, maybe we could weave a sub-plot here of Qui-Gon being responsible for Anakin's nightmares, trying to warn him about the future. He always starts off Anakin's dreams, and in RotS they could be continual visions with not only Padme, but maybe a glimpse of Vader and his future evil? Just a thought; not sure if/how that would work.
-Some kind of dialogue alteration after the Tusken massacare. Replacing the "NO!" first and foremost. Getting two different "Anakin"s would be nice too, making it seem less like a cut and paste job. Any additional stuff you can think of.
-So Qui-Gon in Anakin's Episode 3 visions is a possibility.
-A prefect line that could go several places (from Batman Begins): "Your anger gives you great power but [if you let it] it will destroy you." The place I have in mind of it is when Anakin looks into the suns on Mustafar, before he sheds a tear.
-Reconstructing the Yoda scene in some way. What I think everyone is forgetting is that they still need the Yoda part, which will never be released. And since it all has to be pieced together from different sources anyway, alter and expand it to not only explain the secret of immortality, but Qui-Gon expresses some responsibility for what happened in regards to Anakin.
-After Obi-Wan says "Qui-Gon!", maybe a line or two from Jinn would be appropriate. No "Teach you how to commune with him, I will," rather something from Qui-Gon along the lines of, "Yes Obi-Wan. I will guide you..."
-Considering this last scene, Obi-Wan should not hear from Qui-Gon after he has officially died. This leaves my first two suggestions possible, and reserves surprise for Obi-Wan in RotS. That works very well considering there's not many quiet moments for him to hear Qui-Gon in the first place.

Wow, that was a lot. A whole lot. But as you can see, I've put a lot of thought into this and I'm glad you brought it up, giving me an outlet to lay it all out. I await your input.
Post
#142358
Topic
<strong>The &quot;ADigitalMan Special Editions&quot; DVD Info and Feedback Thread</strong> (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/142358/action/topic#142358
Time
Dialogue along those lines would work well at the end of the Sidious/Yoda fight. (this was discussed in the Episode 3: Fan Editing Discussion in Geneal Star Wars Discussion)

Other dialouge we can play around with:
"You lack the will to do what us necesarry."
"Your anger gives you great power, but if you let it, it will destroy you."
"Vengeance."
"Justice is balance."
"I warned you about compassion, Bruce."
"We can teach you how to dissapear."
"Yes but is Ra's A Ghul Immortal? Are his methods, supernatural?"
There are many more I'm sure, I can't think of ALL of them right now; Neeson's character was much like a dark Qui-Gon.

Kingdom of Heaven would also be a goos source.
Post
#141838
Topic
Episode 3: Fan Editing Ideas Discussion
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/141838/action/topic#141838
Time
Originally posted by: MagnoliaFan
Right now I have 5 different ways laid out to deal with the Qui-Gon thing, with varying difficulties. (all feasable for me, listed from easiest to hardest)
1. If the cut scene is on the dvd - easy enough.
2. Cut the reference outright as Qui-Gon already has another influencial voice over in my version of III anyway.
3. Widen the shot after Obi-Wan says "Qui-Gon!" and have him appear standing next to Yoda.
4. Fake the voice over scene with Yoda using cleverly edited Liam Neeson samples from his body of work and also include #3.
5. Have Liam ADR dialogue similar to the script, then include #3 as well.

Well, looks like MagnoliaFan and the rest of the fan editing gang need to get to work on these contingency plans.
Post
#141836
Topic
<strong>The &quot;ADigitalMan Special Editions&quot; DVD Info and Feedback Thread</strong> (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/141836/action/topic#141836
Time
Well the "beauty" if you want to call it that, of this is that we can have Qui-Gon say whatever we want. Of course, we want to keep the general idea, but you get the idea.

What I think everyone is forgetting is that Yoda has dialogue in this scene as well, as it is a conversation between the two. And though I'm sure it was completed, I doubt it will ever be released without Qui-Gon's dialouge officially inserted into the film.