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Commander Courage

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16-Aug-2004
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1-Oct-2015
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Post
#159935
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159935/action/topic#159935
Time
You've come to the right place, darthpreston. This thread will eventually serve as a place for discusion of all the OT.

I have some extensive edits in mind for RotJ as well. In addition to all the obvious concerns with the Ewoks is their apparent lack of motivation. What makes them want to join the fight against the Empire? The Radio Drama, which I think is in fact superior to the movie if for no other reason than addressing many of its unanswered questions, has C-3P0 explain in detail the Ewoks' decision making process. Anthony Daniels of course does the dialogue, so it would be an easy edit. I laid it all out in a word document which I seem to have misplaced (go figure that one), but still have all the key lines from the RD I wanted to use written down. When I get a chance I'll reconstruct my script and post the exerpts in question. It's also interesting to note that unlike in the film, the residents of the forest moon are called Ewoks by name in the radio drama.

Replacing their childlike theme and cute sound effects might also go a long way into making the Ewoks as reasonable an adversary you can expect out of a two foot tall teddy bear. I've never seen the Ewok movies, but if their footage can enhance the Battle of Endor I say use it. TM knows a lot about using fullscreen footage for widescreen purposes. And I had never noticed the Ewoks NEVER BLINK. That IS creepy.
Post
#159914
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159914/action/topic#159914
Time
Ok, I've reviewed the file. First off I must say you did an excellent job of picking scenes and accompanying music for the flashbacks, and even tried to work in an explanation for Obi-Wan's ghostly voice. However, seeing this test reinforces my idea that is is not the way to go. Maybe if we had Alec and Mark to refilm things for us here and there, but (to me at least) it's not looking like it's going to work. It's an interesting experiment, but think about that in the context of the film; flashbacks are NOT Star Wars style. And then there's the rest of the saga to consider; Luke's further discussions about Vader with Obi-Wan and Yoda, Luke first confronting Vader. I just don't see this scenario working. If only Lucas would release the deleted/extended scenes of the OT; the conversation between Luke and Obi-Wan in RotJ has much more to it. A key line there would be, "I was going to tell you when you completed your training," along with several others that might make Obi-Wan's "explanation" a lot more plausable.

EDIT: Here's the version of the duel I was talking about. I DID NOT DO THIS; This is from Darth Qui-Gon at TF.N. The picture quality is poor (from a SE VHS), and events shortened a little too much for my liking, but the music choices and transitions are excellent: http://rapidshare.de/files/6796739/Anakin_vs._Obi-Wan_ANH_edit.mpg.html
Post
#159819
Topic
The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159819/action/topic#159819
Time
I made this list a while ago for my own amusement; it's nice to finally be able to post it knowing I won't get stoned alone.

A NEW HOPE
-When Vader boards the Tantive IV, have the original music lead into a strong rendition of the Imperial March, and when he pauses to survey the carnage, a lighter version. The Imperial Motif theme would now be the Death Star theme, and reserved only for it.
-Eliminate shot of R5-D4 after he explodes. (Already corrected: Darth Editous)
-Music change: In Obi-Wan’s house, when Vader is mentioned, the low, slow, ominous version of the Imperial March.
-Dialogue change: “I wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn’t allow it.”
-Re-rotoscoping Anakin’s lightsaber to match PT special effects.
-Removing some of the more ridiculous SE aspects of Mos Eisley.
-Wolfman back in instead of goofy replacement aliens.
-I don’t know if it’s possible to alter the shot of Ponda Boba’s arm so there is no blood, but if there is that is a must.
-Han shoots first.
-No Jabba scene.
-Re-rotoscoping Luke using Anakin's saber on the Falcon.
-Eliminate Vader's gesture when there’s no line when he’s talking to Tarkin. (Already corrected: Darth Editous)
-Insert faint Imperial March when Vader is walking through the Death Star halls.
-The Duel: Re-rotoscoping the lightsaber when necessary (activation, cores, etc.). Music change: When they first confront each other, some low, omnnous music. This transitions into Battle of the Heroes when the duel begins. The Force theme plays during Obi-Wan's "You can't win Darth..." General re-editing: Cut the really slow part where they’re stumbling around stabbing at each other. Move Vader’s “you should not have come back” to later in the duel, as that shot needs to be reversed ; Vader’s chest plate is backwards. This spreads out the dialogue too. The music of the Order 66 in RotS plays over Obi-Wan's death and their escape instead of Princess Leia’s Theme. There's a very cool re-edit of the duel I saw that uses these muscial cues. I saved it and I'll upload it for your viewing pleasure later.
-Obi-Wan’s death: Face added to robe in final shot. (Already corrected: Darth Editous)
-Update the graphics on the Death Star. (Already corrected: Darth Editous)
-We can discuss incorporating Palpatine and Bail into the movie. Before I thought there was not way to accomplish that in a fan edit but techniques are getting to a point where it just might be possible.
-If we find it impossible to insert Palpatine in any other way, ADigitalMan’s easter egg after the end credits is a must, and might work regardless.

So there's my general outline for ANH. This doesn't address any of the newest suggestions such as Obi-Wan telling Luke the real truth and all that, but it's a start.
Post
#159786
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159786/action/topic#159786
Time
I'm not in a position to check that out now, InfoDroid, but I look forward to checking it out later tonight. And that's an interesting point on Luke's attitude towards Vader in RotJ, MTH; the transition there had never occured to me.

InfoDroid mentioned the opening crawl. Rebel11_38 made the crawl for SotDS, and I'm sure he'd be willing to contribute again to our future endevours. That brings me to my next point: Since we've gradually been developing into a true team collaboration here at "the Ranch", maybe we should come up with a name? You know, something for the DVD covers and end credits. Just a thought.

As for new threads, they have become a necessity as we've certainly cluttered this one up enough. I would start them myself, but MTH is the main proponent of the Episode I edit, and InfoDroid is already at work on the OT. Therefore I suggest they be the ones to start those respective threads (the OT only requires one, really).
Post
#159537
Topic
Help: looking for... King Kong (1933) Colorized
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159537/action/topic#159537
Time
Originally posted by: SammyTheBullor wait two months for the pointless Kongbox:
http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B000BA8EAW.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

(It is pointless compared to the R1 version, as the only interesting curiosity on it will be the fourth disc, with the colorized version)

What's the story on this set? I'd want to get all the films included, but it seems to be missing "Son of Kong"? And what about "Son of Kong" in color? I know it exists, it was broadcast on TNT. but are there any copies of it out there?
Post
#159534
Topic
Info & Info Wanted: King Kong 1976
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159534/action/topic#159534
Time
Regardless my thoughts on the '76 version, which aren't that positive btw, I'm still a King Kong fan and would love to have an edit along these lines. But in WIDESCREEN! I was hoping special editions of both this and the sequel (King Kong Lives) would be released to coincide with Peter Jackson's remake, but apparently not. The original films were the more deserving of course, but Kong is Kong.
Post
#159531
Topic
The Sith Revealed 2.0 (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159531/action/topic#159531
Time
Originally posted by: Sluggo
Too bad about the deleted scenes. I know what you mean about the 6 DVD set. With your project and Jambre's Builiding Empire, I think we are right on track to get something like that done. I've always considered these projects cousins of each other. (And honestly, if you don't tell anyone about it, I'm thinking of tackling the Phantom Menace myself)

In going with that "family theme", should all these projects be subtitled: Lost Scenes and Editing Secrets of ___________? They're certainly looking to be a lot more in depth than anything official we've been presented with, and these fan projects being more consistent with each other than Lucasfilm's documentaries would really drive the point home.
Post
#159529
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159529/action/topic#159529
Time
InfoDroid, sorry I left you off the 'voulenteer list," I didn't realize you already had the resources to take on such a project. Someone like you who already knows what he's doing is a far better choice than someone like me who's just getting started in the world of editing. Not that I wouldn't want to learn the intricacies of it all at some point, but I'd probably slow things down even more while going through a learning curve. Do keep us posted on whether or not you think you'd be able to tackle Episode I.

And here's a crazy thought: Wouldn't it be nice for I and II to be completed around the same time? Being able to watch this "alternative saga" chronologically would go a long way in its effectiveness if that's what we're going for (a 1-6 flow). With these new strategies, while it probably won't be possible for I to come out before II, we can at least try to get them out in the same year as opposed to I coming 2 or 3 years down the line as originally planned. My only reservation with this would be waiting for the inevitable CGI Yoda that will be replace the TPM puppet in a future release, but we can cross that bridge when we come to it.
Post
#159297
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159297/action/topic#159297
Time
And in all honesty, all you’ve seen are a few screenshots, a couple video clips, and you’ve talked to me through this forum. You have no reason YET to think that I would do a better job than anyone else at this editing. You have no reason to think that someone else couldn’t do every bit as well as I could using my plans and notes for the movie.

You know, you're right. We don't need you. Who do you think you are coming in here with your ideas and bossing us around! We don't need you at all!

In all seriousness, I'm glad you made that post, TM. Things were getting a bit out of control in here. Everyone is coming up with some great stuff, but we can't just expect you to actually do all the work. It must be pretty intimidating for you to come in here every few days or so to find pages and pages of new ideas for your approval or whatever. I completely understand where you're coming from when you say II and III might burn you out; you're doing a heck of a lot of work which by no means you're obligated to do. You could stop right now just to spite us all; we'd be in quite a predicament if that happened now wouldn't we? Your suggestion of passing the baton for I is very reasonable. Simultaneous "production" on I and III would be a great way to speed up the process so we can have the complete prequel trilogy before the end of the decade. Hopefully one of us can rise up and take the reins for I and possibly the OT (though our views on how the originals should be edited would most likely constitute many variations). If someone were to take us under their editing wing so to speak and lay out for us an Idiot's Guide to Editing, I'm sure MTH and myself would be up to the task. Creativity is not the problem, it's the time and the resources. If we could learn the secrets of economically reasonable and technically efficient editing, I'm sure I can speak for both of us when I say we'd love to come onboard as more than creative consultants.

For now though let's focus on to task at hand, Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side, and how it will fit in to both our new and improved prequel trilogy as well as the saga as a whole. Here's to you, Trooperman; we all appreciate your efforts and will support whatever decision you make in regards to the project.
Post
#158789
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/158789/action/topic#158789
Time
Ok I'm glad the council seems to be in agreement with me on this. I have a list of sorts in mind, nothing too fancy just small edits and alternate dialogue here and there. InfoDroid is right in that a major part of OT editing would be music, his examples in particular. And like MTH I have my fair share of issues with RotJ; it'd be interesting to compare notes on how to bring it up to par with ANH and ESB. Before we go any further on that, however, Trooperman will have to give such a project his blessing, and even then it wouldn't be for a few years down the line after we finish up with the PT.
Post
#158757
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/158757/action/topic#158757
Time
-The title will simply be "Star Wars", with no episode number (as you say, hinting towards a stand-alone film)
I do find that a neat concept, but remember the first LotR wasn't "The Lord of the Rings," it was "The Fellowship of the Ring," LotR serving as the title for the overal series. I think every movie should have its own subtitle; I'm one of those people who refer to the '77 film as "A New Hope." Just something to think about.

-There will be a prologue at the beginning ("A long time ago in a galaxy far, far, away, there was a great war. The Jedi Knights and the lords of the Sith..." etc.). This prologue will perhaps use shots from other films, spaceships, and other things to accompany the narrative and give some history for the 6-movie saga. Obviously, we would have to write the backstory and figure out what happened, similar to the extended universe novels out there that I've never read.

Very LotR-esque, but we are going for a saga here. All logistics aside (that will be the fun part), do you think this is straying too far from Star Wars tradition? Being "Episode I" do you think it can take that liberty to explain the backstory of the backstory that we didn't get much of onscreen? (I lean that way too, btw.)

And this is also a good time to think about where exactly I stand on the whole six film saga. Because I don't know. You've said that Sidious in Episode I only makes sense after seeing the OT, which has truth to it. But what order would I like these to be watched? 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6? Doing that would bring up the question....what about the whole "I am your father" revelation that is wrecked by Episode III? How far do I want to go to make it run 1-6? Because as it's been said, someone who's never seen Star Wars is probably not going to see my version first. Maybe the order of initial viewing could be: 4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6. Not sure if you understand...I'm just confused about what I'm trying to do here in terms of the big picture. What would you as the audience like?

You seem to be looking at this more as a saga now, which is a good thing. That said, if you're going that route I think it's time you reconsidered editing the OT as well. Blasphemy, I know. Part of the problem with Star Wars is how seperate the PT and OT are considered; as good as the originals are, making all 6 films flow like a true saga requires alterations to both trilogies (besides, most of the "work" to be done to the OT has already been and will be adressed by MagnoliaFan and DarthEditous). I understand you are a strong defender of the O-OT, as am I, but this being your version of the saga, I think it's only fair to give the originals some attention as well after all the effort spent on the prequels. You are of course, the boss, and have the final word, but I would again encourage you to consider this.
Post
#158745
Topic
Idea: Sifo Dyas removal from AOTC?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/158745/action/topic#158745
Time
While "The Emperor" is an interesting suggestion as well, THX has pointed out the various flaws with that scenario. The other two feasible characters to be implicated are Sidious, or Qui-Gon. Sidious would be an accurate name, just lying about his status on the Jedi Council. Dooku's reveal of Sidious as the Sith Master, his identity as his apprentice, and Jango's affiliation with him would allow one to connect the dots and solve the mystery. Or would it? Dooku's question of "how the Republic came up with an army so quickly" is confusing in any edit, and would have to be cut. Plus there are so many names and assumptions involved, this option is almost as confusing as the original Sifo-Dyas himself, which is what we are trying to avoid.

Qui-Gon would be a front for Dooku or Palpatine, plain and simple. As THX pointed out a familar character known to the Jedi enchances the importance of the mystery. Also this allows the use for, "...was killed almost ten years ago." I always thought audiences would confuse Sifo-Dyas with Qui-Gon anyway, with that line and Obi-Wan's reference to him as "my master." If the only issue here is dialogue, Ewan McGregor has soundbites all over the place; Star Wars interviews in particular would be a good place to look for "Qui-Gon Jinn," whose name he mentions at least once in the RotS special features DVD (I don't know about the other 2 prequels). Again though, the issue is closure. It would have to be revealed at some point Dooku ordered the clones in Qui-Gon's name to create mystery and the Jedi would have to discover it. I have a couple of ideas but aren't sure if they'd be doable.
Post
#158552
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/158552/action/topic#158552
Time
Oh, one more thing pertaining to ALL the prequels, "Annie" must be eliminated wherever possible. I'd say Shmi should be the only one to call him that.

So here's some dialogue for a Sith explanation scene in the place of the Midichlorine scene:

ANAKIN: Qui-Gon, sir, I don't want to be a problem.
QUI-GON : You won't be Anakin. I'm not allowed to train you, so I want you to watch me and be mindful. Always remember, your focus determines your reality.
ANAKIN: Master sir, I've been wondering, what are Sith?
QUI-GON: Agents of evil, adversaries of the Jedi and followers of the Dark Side of the Force. A thousand years ago the Jedi and Sith fought a great war in which the Sith were exterminated, or thought to be.
ANAKIN: What could they want now?
QUI-GON: Vengence. There is something else behind all this but for now their motivations remain a mystery.
ANAKIN: So what are the Jedi going to do?
QUI-GON: Whatever is necessary. Don't worry, Anakin. Stay close to me and you'll be safe.

So that's a basic outline of what I was thinking for the scene. If anyone has any ideas on where to get clips that might work for something like this (other movies, interviews, etc.) please don't keep them to yourself.
Post
#158434
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/158434/action/topic#158434
Time
Ok, now that you break it down I better understand your ideas as well, and we are indeed on the same page. I still think "Always mind your surroundings" is a much better fit for Obi-Wan looking to the lightsaber than Anakin finding the right button in the starfighter. But the connection we'd be establishing here would be between Anakin and Qui-Gon, no one else. That I like, but what about the explanation of the Force spirits? I believe TM's plan for that was to cut Yoda's mention of Qui-Gon on RotS and have his ghost appear ever so breifly as Obi-Wan walks back into the desert after delivering Luke (oh, and a way must be found to remove the Eopie from this scene!). Will that be enough? I hope so. More on that another time.

You also inquired as to my thoughts on Darth Maul's "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we will have revenge." This is one of the coolest lines in the PT, and ties into the titles of Episode III. Of course when you look at just the movies, it is never explained what they want revenge on the Jedi for, other than the fact that they're evil, and I think this is what you're getting at. I suppose I could argue it adds mystery to their motivations, a good thing, but like Syfo-Dias, this "mystery" is never answered on film. Maybe there is a way an explanation of the Jedi/Sith background can be incorporated into Episode I, but I haven't a clue how to do it. My best suggestion is to have Anakin ask Qui-Gon what a Sith is and he explain it to the boy, on the landing platform in place of the midichlorine discussion. The logistics of this are beyond me at this point, barring traveling back in time to the production of TPM and filiming the scene with Jake and Liam. There's only so far dialogue from other sources can take you, but perhaps we can cobble something together.

As for Darth Maul/Grievous himself, I'd want to use as much dialogue of his as possible. Whoever it was the dubbed his voice was awesome, and it sure would be great to get him to dub Grievous for us in Episode III. The tone poem is excellent, but where can you put it? The first place that springs to mind is his arrival on Tatooine, but would a Sith talk/think to himself like that? And hearing a characters inner monologue isn't a Star Wars technique, so I don't know how to approach this exactly.
Post
#158392
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/158392/action/topic#158392
Time
This is part of my breakdown of Qui-Gon's expanded role (the section pertaining to Episode I):

And while I do indeed support expanding Qui-Gon's role, it would be in a different way that Obi-Wan's life after death, as MTHaslett already pointed out. The problem with what I think you were getting at, TM, was that there can be no conversaions between Qui-Gon and the characters. This puts him in a very similar position as Obi-Wan in ANH after his death. He communicates with Luke in extreme moments, but they aren't chatting it up and we don't have Luke questioning how he's talking to him. In fact, Luke seems to not believe it himself at first. Here are some places I think dialogue from Qui-Gon would be approriate and meaningful:
-At some point during the space battle, when Anakin fires the torpedoes into the reactor for example, have Qui-Gon in his head: "Concentrate on the moment. Feel, don't think. Use your instincts." Qui-Gon is straddling life and death here, so this could be interpreted as either a rememberance (he told Anakin this before the pod race), Force user-to-Force user communication (Luke and Vader at the end of ESB), or advice from the netherworld (Obi-Wan in ANH).
-When Obi-Wan is hanging in the pit, have Qui-Gon is his head: "Always be mindful of your surroundings." Then he remembers Jinn's lightsaber is still there and leaps up to kill Maul. That could be interpreted as the latter two options from above.
-I thought about having Qui-Gon die after "Promise me you will train the boy," (assumming you would keep that line), then have "He will bring balance. Train him," echo in the long shot, in Obi-Wan's head I assume. But that might be a little weird.
-I mentioned this before, but perhaps have some of Qui-Gon's tone poem in Anakin's head at the funeral. "It will be a hard life. One without reward, without remorse, without regret," etc. This would tie-in with the dream in your Episode 2, but again it might be a bit out of place.
-Qui-Gon dissapearing in the fire? Again, logically there would be some kind of reaction/response, so I'd say leave this as-is.
Post
#158325
Topic
Idea: Sifo Dyas removal from AOTC?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/158325/action/topic#158325
Time
Here's something out of left field I thought up you might find interesting:

LAMA SU: Please tell your Master Qui-Gon Jinn that we have every confidence his order will be met on time and in full.
OBI-WAN: I'm sorry? Master - ?
LAMA SU: Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn. He's still a leading member of the Jedi Council, is he not?
OBI-WAN: Master Jinn was killed almost ten years ago.
LAMA SU: Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that. But I'm sure he would have been proud of the army we've built for him.


OBI-WAN: Then you must know Master Qui-Gon Jinn?
JANGO FETT: Master who?
OBI-WAN: Qui-Gon Jinn. Is he not the Jedi who hired you for this job?
JANGO FETT: Never heard of him.
OBI-WAN: Curious.

OBI-WAN: They say [cut]a[cut] Master Qui-Gon placed the order for a clone army at the request of the Senate almost ten years ago. Did the Council ever authorize the
creation of a clone army? (With maybe another line about how Qui-Gon couldn't have or whatever.)

Though there wouldn't be any resolution, it might be interesting to go that route. If you had to explain it, it could be assumed Dooku ordered the clones in his deceased apprentice's name.
Post
#158324
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/158324/action/topic#158324
Time
MTHaslett: You've obviously put a lot of thought into Episode 1 already; very intriguing ideas you have there. I can't say I agree with most of them, but they are interersting points of discussion regardless. From what I can tell one of your greatest purposes here is to make this film as much like ANH as possible, particularly with the Qui-Gon/Anakin relationship and the hierarchy of the villains. The concepts behind those ideas I do like, as well as the removal of Padme's subplot in the final battle. You know from this thread and others I am one of the biggest supporters of changing whatever necessary for the best possible product, however I think many of your other suggestions are overdoing it a bit. I had no intention of delving into this at this time, but I can't help myself, let us discuss:

One idea involves manipulating footage to get him off Naboo during the climax and back onto the droid control ship. This loses the Padme-capturing-Gunray thread, streamlining the end and dropping a lot of its lamest sequences.
Gunray leaving the planet would be an obvious way to help the removal of the "capture the viceroy finale," and also explain why he is still in power with the Trade Federation come Episodes 2 and 3. I'd say some dialogue between Nute and Rune in the Palace after the control ship is destroyed addressing their need to evacuate would work for this scenario. They have been arrogantly monitoring the battle only to find their army rendered useless and now they have to make a run for it. One line in particular I have in mind, "What about the Sith?" "Lord Grievous can take care of himself. Come on!" No need for them to die, as InfoDroid points out, Darth Vader survived ANH after all. Since Nute is being made into a more formidable adversary why kill him off in 1 when he is in 2 and 3 already anyway? The notion of "Carl" is amusing but would create more problems than it would solve.

Consider if Anakin's connection to Qui Gon didn't drop when he flew off into battle-- what if Qui-Gon were mentally communicating with Anakin?
I posted some very specific ideas on this a few pages back, and those stil stand. No lashing out in anger with the torpedoes, just Anakin "concentrating on the moment" and all that.

If you were to only cut Sidious' presence down, what scenes would you keep? The balcony scene with Maul is the only one that can't be covered another way. But it stands out like a sore thumb, slowing down the narrative and introducing a plot of "revenge" that I still don't quite understand.
Good point about the balcony scene, as it also establishes Sidious on Coruscant, something that I've just now realized was a terrible idea. I love the establishing music for the scene though and Maul has his famous, "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi, at last we will have revenge." I'd hate to lose this but it's indeed looking like it must go along with the rest of Sidious. I must be promised this music be used somewhere else in the PT though! (I'm thinking Episode 3) If we can't devise a way to absolutely omit Sidious, a less extensive form of what you've proposed would be cutting down his communications with the TF to 2 or 3 exchanges with all pertanent info edited into them. Just another option for TM to consider.

He needs to have a special ability to communicate through the Force, to living people, without speaking. If he's going to have a link with Qui-Gon, it'll be a little different than Vader reading Luke's emotions in the OT. But being the "chosen one" makes this leap do-able; and it leads to many advantages.
I can see where you're going with this but it doesn't do much but cause more confusion IMO. Outside the first Padme conversation this would seem totally out of place. If it could be achieved in this one scene only however, I might go along with it. You're absolutely right about her reactions.

First, when Anakin destroys the droid ship and Qui Gon dies in Obi-Wan's arms-- the movie quickly rushes into beureaucratic stuff on Naboo and never gets back to the most important beat of all; namely: What does Anakin think about having lost Qui Gon? The answer is The Qui Gon Tone Poem: played over footage of Anakin flying the Naboo fighter after destroying the droid ship leading into a montage of quieter images-- Qui Gon's words about the hardships of the path before Anakin provide the important thematic that the whole movie is lacking. I always got a bigger charge out of the marketing of the PT than I did out of the movies. Here's the perfect place to combine them (I know Trooperman also wants to use the tone poems in Episode II -- I don't think repeating them is really a bad idea if we must. I know the Qui Gon tone poem fits most perfectly here, at the end of Episode I where the emotion over QG's death is highest.)
Yes! This is what I was looking to acheive when I suggestion this play in Anakin's head at Qui-Gon's funeral. I always thought it wouldn't fit in very well there, and I was right. I hope approriate Anakin footage can be found to accompany this. (This is very much like "Remember, the Force will be with you, always..." at the end of ANH, which I'm sure is what gave you the inspiration for it.)

Remember, without Sidious, the slow pan to Palpatine at Qui Gon's funeral becomes more meaningful and subtle. I think this is the route things would have gone if Episode I were made before ANH.

Yes, it's as if that's what the shot was originally intended to do, but it's signifigance got lost somewhere because of various things such as Sidious' presence in the film and the audience knowing Palpatine would become the Emperor.


"Sypho-Dias" change to "Sidious" also becomes a major no-brainer and the answer to the problems a lot of people have with that subplot.

MagnoliaFan shared a way to remove Syfo-Dias with TM, and although they aren't going to reveal it I've always suspected this is what it was. Just snip Obi-Wan's references to him being killed and all that and there you go. Qui-Gon would also be an interesting name to plug in there, but I don't think it could be resolves properly.

One of my biggest problems is with Captain Tanaka. I think that guy's a douche and his costume is the silliest of the entire Saga-- worse than Jar Jar's. Editing the whole escape to Tatooine so that it emphasizes the tension better would mean cutting tons of material out of there-- like the "His number is artoo-deetoo"/"I do not agree with the Jedi on this" scene. His other scenes can be trimmed within an inch of their life too-- especially with Maul on Tatooine raising the tension and making Qui-Gon's need to win the pod-race more urgent.

Yes! When my friends and I watch TPM we always find it amusing to focus on this guy's negativity. And Maul arrving on Tatooine earlier is a smart move.

The Handmaiden stuff is still necessary, but can be dramatically reduced with a couple clever edits-- one, her "space is cold" scene with Anakin can be played without dialogue and actually have dramatic power. Two: the scene where Anakin goes to say goodbye to her and meets Amidala changing can be cut completely. The whole Coruscant sequence needs to be reduced by at least 1/3-- put all the Palpatine/Senate stuff into one continuous sequence (cut the actual Senate meeting down by half-- it's easy) and all the Jedi/Anakin stuff into a second sequence-- then end it with Amidala's decision to leave and suddenly the scenes can each be dramatically reduced. (With some clever re-ordering) they flow better this way and we get off that stinking city-planet and back to the battle a lot faster. I think the "Anakin shows Padme his droid C3P0" scene can be moved to make Padme come off better there too. There are a lot of opportunities left.

-Interesting opinion on the Japor snippet scene, but I think some dialogue is needed to establish just what it is Anakin's giving to Padme.
-Yes, Anakin going to say goodbye to Padme only to meet Amidala MUST go.
-The rest of your editing suggestions on Coruscant I disagree with, as I think they are fine as they are in the movie.
-Something must be done about 3P0, that's for sure.

I think ALL the tone poems could actually play a role in making this work -- using Maul's to beef his character up before his big battle, using Shmi's to beef up the underwhelming good-bye scene; the new, quieter and more powerful Anakin will allow this stuff to work.

Qui-Gon's will work because of his voiceover nature at that point. The rest, not so much. And I thought Anakin's goodbye to his mother was excellent.

"Gunray. Carl Gunray. At your service. You killed my brother. Prepare to die."

Nice! Anyway, I hope my criticism has been constructive, and I of course look forward to further discussion on this matter.
Post
#157871
Topic
Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/157871/action/topic#157871
Time
Happy Thanksgiving everybody!

Let us all be thankful to be participating in the most extensive Star Wars fan edit of them all: Episode II - Shroud of the Dark Side!

Trooperman: Glad you liked my Maul=Grievous ideas, I look forward to delving into them for Episode III. I'm also in agreement with you on Sidious in Episode I; he is a high point of them film, but removing some of his scenes would indeed strengthen the Trade Federation as well as the plot. Some of them are essential though IMO, but again that's a discussion for another time. And the May release date is official? Excellent, everything is going as planned...
Post
#157577
Topic
Idea: MY phantom edit
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/157577/action/topic#157577
Time
I believe this is the answer to your query:
Originally posted by: THX
the only real way to get around the major conceptual issues of TPM is to cut it drastically down to a kind of prologue. I believe Farsight suggested a one-movie PT in another thread and I think that, ultimately, is the way to go.

That's the only way many of THX's suggestions would work, which would certainly be an interesting project to see. TheDemonHunter's "Skywalker Legacy" project is similar, though he is telling the story of the prequels through flashbacks in the original trilogy, omitting all but the essentials.