- Post
- #165632
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- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
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- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/165632/action/topic#165632
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Commander Courage
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- 16-Aug-2004
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- 1-Oct-2015
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- Post
- #165189
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
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- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/165189/action/topic#165189
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Regarding the recent topics of discussion:
"The Passion" Dialogue:
I am all for this, and can't see any other source outdoing it. I can overlook an "Allah" and "Nazareth" every now and then; whose to say those wouldn't be words in their language? Everything thing else is absolutely perfect. InfoDroid is right about people being too perfectionistic. I know I "disagree" with a lot of ideas, but I try to think through my suggestions reasonably as to what and what cannot be done by us as fan edtors. Keep on InfoDroid, do noe be discouraged!
Darth Grievous/Maul:
I definitely see the position on keeping Maul's name Maul. I wish we could and still accomplish Maul=Grievous for Episode III, but it's simply impossible logistically to replace "Grievous" with "Maul." Therefore considering "Maul" is only mentioned by name by Sidious, and that in our edit there IS no Sidious, it is far more reasonable to simply re-name him in Episode I. If anyone has another practical suggestion feel free to share, but for now I don't see any other way to do it and a name change for a nameless charcter is a small price to pay for the overall advantages of tying these two one-off villains together.
- Post
- #164126
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
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- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/164126/action/topic#164126
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Also, looking at TJ's edit of your suggestions MTH, I know the lack of subtitles and a musical flow factor in, but the way things are looking it seems to me using the same sequencing as the original opening may be the better way to go, with appropriate alterations of course, but generally the same thing as TPM. That's just the way I'm leaning right now.
- Post
- #163641
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/163641/action/topic#163641
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- Post
- #163637
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
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- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/163637/action/topic#163637
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- Post
- #163611
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/163611/action/topic#163611
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As ID already pointed out, the Nemoidian dialogue should be refined, but the core material is there.
Let's keep it coming!
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- #163414
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/163414/action/topic#163414
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And just something to keep in mind, TJ, direct tracking of music from other pieces of Star Wars music is a definite negative. Then we start sounding like AotC, and we certainly wouldn't want to do that. Anything classical that inspired the Star Wars music, other John Williams material, and creative editing of the other soundtracks though would definitely be in order. I'm sure you realize this, but I just want to reiterate it for everyone. Dropping in a complete track does work from time to time, but usually when the music in played in a completely different context.
- Post
- #163411
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/163411/action/topic#163411
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Originally posted by: InfoDroid
TJ's already got a rough-cut! *jaw drops*
That's beyond incredible! And it makes me a very happy droid.
TJ's already got a rough-cut! *jaw drops*
That's beyond incredible! And it makes me a very happy droid.
Welcome aboard, TJ. Good to see you're already hard at work.
Be careful though, InfoDroid might get lazy and spoiled if you keep up this pace.Here's what might be a stupid question, but would it be possible to zoom-in on footage and crop from there? It would certainly make all these close ups easier, and being from the offical DVD I wouldn't think the video quality would suffer. But I'm just a novice in the editing department, so don't hit me too hard if that was idiotic.
- Post
- #163388
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
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- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/163388/action/topic#163388
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- Post
- #163379
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
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- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/163379/action/topic#163379
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- Post
- #163267
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
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- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/163267/action/topic#163267
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Well it can't look cut and paste. I don't know why we can't try. The dialogue can be arranged so that the "official" hologram is actually replying by standing there stoically-- it can be made to feel organic. That is, of course, the final test.
My point is if we want more than just a longshot or the stoic close-up of Grievous, it will look cut and paste as the close-up of a darkened Sidious hologram will not match up with the official shot of Grievous.
I've been thinking about that poem and I think it will work best as the summation audio over the whole "look how it's all come out" montage that shows us how each battlefront ends as well as how Anakin is processing with Qui Gonn's help. It can really bring the whole ending home, I believe.
My point is if we want more than just a longshot or the stoic close-up of Grievous, it will look cut and paste as the close-up of a darkened Sidious hologram will not match up with the official shot of Grievous.
I've been thinking about that poem and I think it will work best as the summation audio over the whole "look how it's all come out" montage that shows us how each battlefront ends as well as how Anakin is processing with Qui Gonn's help. It can really bring the whole ending home, I believe.
Yes, excllent. Start with Anakin in the cockpit, then the ship flying back, the battlefield, the longshot of Obi-Wan with Qui-Gon's body, then finally back to Anakin. Wipe to Palpatine's ship landing. (Of course there's not really an ending for Padme, but whatever, I don't think that'll have an impact.)
I'll think long and hard about the title. A new opening crawl is in order obviously, so I'll try my hand at that as well.
- Post
- #163125
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/163125/action/topic#163125
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I actually like the fish being there, but they take a lot of time without achieving the slightest amount of excitement. I had this idea: what if the fish is coming at them, but gets grabbed itself before it grabs them-- that would have the same impact, allow for the same line-- yet not slow us down for a fake scare beat.
Yes, that would work. We see the fish, we think it's going to get them, they never see it, it closes in, but at the last second it's caught by another fish. If you want to give the sequence a proper ending you can have Jar-Jar's bug-eyed reaction and Qui-Gon turning from seeing the event say his Big Fish line. I just feel it needs better closure than the bongo just "heading for that outcropping" and that exchange might provide it.
Excellent. Though I'm sure you agree that "You're a Jedi too?" should be cut.
That's one way to go-- I'd try another as well-- using the Maul close ups and darkening the stars in the background to match the dark int. Castle background. If we use the fullscreen version cropped, that will make the job a lot easier and if we can only pull it off for a half a second it will make a huge difference.
Yes, that would work. We see the fish, we think it's going to get them, they never see it, it closes in, but at the last second it's caught by another fish. If you want to give the sequence a proper ending you can have Jar-Jar's bug-eyed reaction and Qui-Gon turning from seeing the event say his Big Fish line. I just feel it needs better closure than the bongo just "heading for that outcropping" and that exchange might provide it.
I totally agree with this-- that's why I want to cut all that stuff and get just to Padme cleaning R2. Without the Queen debriefing scene, the Padme cleaning the droid scene works a lot better. She's cleaning the droid and showing gratitude rather than telling us he deserves it. It's a much stronger character statement this way. It should be tweaked, but it provides an opportunity for Artoo to be a character and for Padme to meet Jar Jar which isn't covered in the magfan edit. I think the cleaning scene is a real undervalued opportunity. But the "debriefing" scene has got to go.
I didn't catch your removal of the report to the Queen scene. Good call and we can rework the R2 scene with the magic of subtitles. Honestly I've totally forgotten how that scene plays. I haven't watched the original Episodes I and II in over a year (chossing instead the MagnolisFan versions). I should probably do that to get a complete feel of what we have to work with.
Funny; I thought you of all people would be against it as it is one of those jokes referring to the next film. But I'd be up for it if you are if you don't think it's too blatant a reference.
Anakin's Dream: I think a combination of tone poems and quick flashes of obscured visuals would work, taking advantage of the "waking up" scene. The one thing I don't particularly like about Trooperman's nightmare sequence is that it's overlayed with Anakin in bed. He says it works best that way though, so there it is. Also, as I understand it the Episode III dreams are going to be reworked as well (just FYI). The best way to address this would be to put it aside, and after we put the majority of the film together see if it is better served by a dream or not.
Qui-Gon on Tatooine: Good points. I'm all for them is they can be smoothly edited. That's my greatest concern; we don't want things to seem cut and paste. I do wonder though if Qui-Gon betting for Anakin's freedom will be properly conveyed in just the last scene between him and Watto.
But if you imagine a different version-- Qui Gonn collapses on the floor; Obi Wan and Anakin rush in- Qui Gonn addresses them about that thing-- the ship takes off-- we cut to the EXT. SHIP FLYING shot-- we can keep the AUDIO of the introduction without the visual and solve this critical problem.
I didn't catch your removal of the report to the Queen scene. Good call and we can rework the R2 scene with the magic of subtitles. Honestly I've totally forgotten how that scene plays. I haven't watched the original Episodes I and II in over a year (chossing instead the MagnolisFan versions). I should probably do that to get a complete feel of what we have to work with.
I don't know-- I personally feel like you that it's great. I believe it should stay because it somehow feels OT, even though I know it's more of a cheap joke/reference. It added a bit of quirkiness to Watto. Can we keep it?
Funny; I thought you of all people would be against it as it is one of those jokes referring to the next film. But I'd be up for it if you are if you don't think it's too blatant a reference.
Anakin's Dream: I think a combination of tone poems and quick flashes of obscured visuals would work, taking advantage of the "waking up" scene. The one thing I don't particularly like about Trooperman's nightmare sequence is that it's overlayed with Anakin in bed. He says it works best that way though, so there it is. Also, as I understand it the Episode III dreams are going to be reworked as well (just FYI). The best way to address this would be to put it aside, and after we put the majority of the film together see if it is better served by a dream or not.
Qui-Gon on Tatooine: Good points. I'm all for them is they can be smoothly edited. That's my greatest concern; we don't want things to seem cut and paste. I do wonder though if Qui-Gon betting for Anakin's freedom will be properly conveyed in just the last scene between him and Watto.
But if you imagine a different version-- Qui Gonn collapses on the floor; Obi Wan and Anakin rush in- Qui Gonn addresses them about that thing-- the ship takes off-- we cut to the EXT. SHIP FLYING shot-- we can keep the AUDIO of the introduction without the visual and solve this critical problem.
Excellent. Though I'm sure you agree that "You're a Jedi too?" should be cut.
That's one way to go-- I'd try another as well-- using the Maul close ups and darkening the stars in the background to match the dark int. Castle background. If we use the fullscreen version cropped, that will make the job a lot easier and if we can only pull it off for a half a second it will make a huge difference.
I totally understand your desire to use the "official" Maul hologram, but think of the opportunities that would open up for dialogue if we consistently use Sidious' hologram and black-out the hood (giving him the appearance of Death). Throw in the official hologram and it ends up looking cut and paste.
Coruscant: I guess I'm just a fan of A-B-A-B-A storytelling. But sure, let's try it your way and see what we get.
Qui-Gon's funeral: Excellent points. If we want a Qui-Gon line or two in Anakin's head, the Batman Begins dialogue would be perfect as there is a fire in the background already. Though I think it would interrupt the musically-driven feel and take away from the final tone poem as Anakin flies back to Naboo (which I really hope we can pull off).
Well if we're going for that stand-alone feel, giving this episode a subtitle would sort of undermine that, wouldn't you think? So, "Star Wars" it is?
- Post
- #163105
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/163105/action/topic#163105
- Time
Originally posted by: MTHaslett
Anyone else here gonna comment? I feel like I posted the outline and then...
>chirp chirp< /cricket noises...
Anyone else here gonna comment? I feel like I posted the outline and then...
>chirp chirp< /cricket noises...
Haha, well it's quite a read, MTH, but someone had to do it so thanks for putting that all together. Now onto the comments:
-We hear Jar Jar's back story, but no giant fish grabs them
I think one fish (as in MagnoliaFan's version) is fine. Every Star Wars movie needs a creature after all, and would would want to lose Liam Neeson's extremely Irish line-reading of "There's always a bigger fish."
-Padme cleans artoo and meets Jar Jar. They land on Tatooine.
Never liked that scene, or the whole concept of the "Queen" ordering Padme to clean R2. Just dub the name of another handmaiden over "Padme" and cut the cleaning scene scene. Oh, and the lines "It is to be commended" and "It deserves our gratitude" need to go entirely.
-Find Watoo's shop, Qui Gonn talks to Watoo out back
Would it be ripping-off Magnolia Fan to have Watto hum the Cantina song? I always liked that bit, but it probably wouldn't fit with our approach would it?
-Maul/Grievous lands and sends out his probe droids.
As I suggested before I would move this to after the pod activation scene and follow it with an Anakin dream. What is the concenus on that, btw? I'm all for it if we can make it obscure and mysterious enough.
-Anakin shows Padme C3P0 after dinner.
Curious, why the shuffling of scene order here?
Sidenote: You seem to be pushing back Qui-Gon's notice/interest in Anakin's potential. Moving the conversation between him and Shmi is an interesting suggestion, but only if it can be edited smoothly. If not, it should stay as-si. Seeing his bet to free Anakin is essential though, IMO. It makes the stakes even higher: although he doesn't know it, Anakin is racing for his freedom. Moving the probe droid report to Maul up does make sense though, as the one Qui-Gon cut down is obviously not the one who returns to Maul.
-Anakin says goodbye to his mother and leaves (improved with tone poem, if possible)
-Maul sees Anakin for a moment, keeps fighting (don't know if we can do this)
Little things we should try if we can.
-(cut the intro of Anakin to Obi Wan -- it's too upbeat) Fly away--
Agree about the upbeatness of it, but it is essential nonetheless. Cutting "You're a Jedi too?" would help. If you wanted to go really extreme with it, just mute all Anakin's dialogue in the exchange and have a clip of ominous music or something.
-Maul/Grievous reports to Gunray in the palace by trasmission. Nute's stoic, but clearly not thrilled.
Good, but I take it no close ups of Maul? Or just darkening the hood to complete blackness? That might be for the best, though we'd lose the one true Maul hologram clip, it would make the editing much smoother.
Sidenote: The order of the Coruscant sequence should stay as-is. Having ALL the Senate stuff then ALL the Jedi stuff is too much of the same thing continuously. Let them break each other up.
-Queen reveals her plan -- Qui Gonn tunes out, disappointed (don't even explain the whole thing-- show him disinterested and bring up somber music). Amidala is brave, but this is hopeless...
This is good, I like this a lot.
-The Jedi fight into the hanger and free the pilots.
I assume you plan on taking this from earlier in the film? I wouldn't, and leave that bit where it was originally.
Sidenote: Overall your plans for the final battles are great, though the key to success will be in the editing.
-From Anakin's p.o.v-- we see Qui Gonn's funeral pyre. No talk to Obi Wan.
I think that exchange between Obi-Wan and Anakin is essential. It's very short but at least establishes something between them.
Sidenote: Trooperman has said he has the perfect ending music for Episode I; not that I've heard it but chances are it'll work great. Also, though I hold by my opinion that each chapter in the saga should have it's own title, if we can't think of a good enough one, I say go with "Star Wars." It would certainly be a different approach, and add to the stand-alone feel.
- Post
- #163008
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/163008/action/topic#163008
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Yeah I know what you mean, ID. This is why MagnoliaFan works alone, and even Trooperman doesn't consult us on everthing. I think from here on out we should narrow it down to you, MTH, myself, and a few select others.
- Post
- #162992
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/162992/action/topic#162992
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And yes, you did provide the pseudo-psychological answer I was looking for.
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- #162965
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/162965/action/topic#162965
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Qui-Gon's dream: A good start, but I think it shows way too much. Things should be dark, obscured, and confusing. Ideally the dialouge would start while the screen was still black, then the pictures slowly fades in to Qui-Gon placing his hands on Anakin's shoulders. The "Anakin!" transitioning to Qui-Gon getting stabbed is prefectly unsettling. I'd cut the shot of Obi-Wan though. "Great or terrible things" I would change the visuals to winning the pod race and leading the Clonetrooper army respectively. And I know all the dialogue comes from Batman Begins, but where are we going with that? What purpose does it serve to his character, and is this Qui-Gon really talking to him or is he just imagining it? And is there a way to seperate the Ducard lines from the snap, crackle, and pop noises of the fire in the background? Padme saying "Anakin" (which is in the scene I believe) at the end of the dream, waking him up, would make for a better transition as well. Hope I don't sound too critical, I really enjoyed it and see many possibilities here, it just needs to be refined.
Glad you liked Narnia, great film. Though if we want to use any of the dialogue we may need to obtain a copy...before it is officially available fo you know what I mean.
- Post
- #162885
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/162885/action/topic#162885
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Originally posted by: MTHaslett
...And I guess we're not doing the "LOTR" style montage at the beginning? I kind of vote against it for time reasons if nothing else -- and as such, I think we may need a title for this Episode I other than "Star Wars" to differentiate it from the official Trooperman Episode I that will come later with montage and the title Star Wars.
...And I guess we're not doing the "LOTR" style montage at the beginning? I kind of vote against it for time reasons if nothing else -- and as such, I think we may need a title for this Episode I other than "Star Wars" to differentiate it from the official Trooperman Episode I that will come later with montage and the title Star Wars.
That, and it's against Star Wars tradition, IMO. I was also sort of against "Star Wars" for the title as I think every chapter deserves its own title. But as I understand it, this edit IS "Trooperman's Episode I," just under the supervision of a different crew.
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- #162867
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/162867/action/topic#162867
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Let the Trade Federation Music Defenders start crying now.
The Trade Federation Theme is one of the best of the prequels and I'd hate to see it go. I do love the SotE soundtrack though and incorporating it into the films would be great. The pod race in particular, in the same way MagnoliaFan did in his edit. All of Joel McNeely's themes are excellent alternatives to whatever current music we may not be satisfied with. One of the "master lists" that's needed to be made is what music is going to be replaced, what's replacing it, and in what scenes.
You won't be dissapointed, in the film itself or the Neeson material.
I love these ideas -- except the underwater sequence has to stay, imo. The BOTF reworking of the Gungan story is a real improvement and the site of the Gungan city is very cool. I don't think we get SMOOTHER by cutting the city, just SHORTER. The smoothest story will allow Qui Gonn (and the audience) to size up the Gungans before we call on them to fight the war in the end.
The Trade Federation Theme is one of the best of the prequels and I'd hate to see it go. I do love the SotE soundtrack though and incorporating it into the films would be great. The pod race in particular, in the same way MagnoliaFan did in his edit. All of Joel McNeely's themes are excellent alternatives to whatever current music we may not be satisfied with. One of the "master lists" that's needed to be made is what music is going to be replaced, what's replacing it, and in what scenes.
Whelp, I'm off to finally see Narnia at the recommendation of Commander Courage. I'm hoping to see some good, usable Liam Neeson dialogue up there, CC!
You won't be dissapointed, in the film itself or the Neeson material.
I love these ideas -- except the underwater sequence has to stay, imo. The BOTF reworking of the Gungan story is a real improvement and the site of the Gungan city is very cool. I don't think we get SMOOTHER by cutting the city, just SHORTER. The smoothest story will allow Qui Gonn (and the audience) to size up the Gungans before we call on them to fight the war in the end.
Yes, your Gungan idea is a tempting one darthpreston, but in the end I think it's cutting too much, and ruins the dynamic between Jar-Jar, the Jedi, and the other Gungans for later in the film. The flow of the scenes as you outlined does indeed work, but I think if we're to reinvent the Gungans, we need that material to work with.
I'm all for getting officiall started, but how should we go about it? Go through every scene of the movie, discuss, decide, and so on? As for who'd be doing the actual editing, as I said before I have neither the resources nor the know-how. I hope to eventually though but for the purposes of this project I'm best left in my current role. Major props to InfoDroid stepping up to the plate and taking this on; I hope he doesn't mind doing it on his own for the most part, or someone else can come in and assist in the technical division of The Ranch.
- Post
- #162811
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/162811/action/topic#162811
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- Post
- #162792
- Topic
- Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/162792/action/topic#162792
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- Post
- #162791
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/162791/action/topic#162791
- Time
Grievous is a completely different situation in that he comes out of nowhere and suddenly becomes the end-all be-all of the Clone Wars. The thought of making him Sifo-Dyas crossed my mind as well, and though it would indeed answer who ordered the clones, in the end it would cause more questions than answers. The pay-off of him being Maul is infinitley more intrguing for both the plot and the character himself. I totally agree if we can't show the birth of Grievous professionally we shouldn't show it at all. That said, I don't think that would make it necessary to scrap Maul=Grievous totally. I still believe it can work without SEEING the procedure or whatever, and should at least attempt that route.
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- #162620
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/162620/action/topic#162620
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-Saruman: You did not seriously think that a hobbit could contend with the will of Sauron? There are none who can. Against the power of Mordor there can be no victory. We must join with him, Gandalf. We must join with Sauron. It would be wise, my friend.
-Saruman: I gave you the chance of aiding me willingly. But you...have elected...the way of pain!
-Saruman: One ill turn deserves another. It is over! Embrace the power of the Ring... or embrace your own destruction!
-Saruman: So you have chosen - death.
-Saruman: Do you know how the Orcs first came into being? They were elves once, taken by the dark powers. Tortured and mutilated: a ruined and terrible form of life. Now...perfected: my fighting Uruk-Hai. Whom do you serve?
-Saruman: Hunt them down. Do not stop until they are found. You do not know pain. You do not know fear. You will taste man flesh!
-Saruman (v.o.): The old world will burn in the fires of industry. The forests will fall. A new order will rise. We will drive the machine of war with the sword and the spear and the iron fist of the Orc.
-Saruman (v.o.): We have only to remove those who oppose us.
-Saruman: Save your pity and your mercy. I have no use for it!
For Grievous related dialogue I would suggest: "Mutilated. A ruined and terrible form of life now...perfected."/"You do not know pain. You do not know fear."/"We will drive the machine of war"/"A new order will rise." Too bad we don't have Ian saying those lines, as they would make much more sense for Sidious to say.
Other Dooku lines to be on the lookout for:
-"The Jedi are using our army just as you said, my Lord."
-"Wait! You don't understand! He's---"
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- #162616
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/162616/action/topic#162616
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And serious Kudos to Mask and darthpreston for putting that together. Though the speed of which it was accomplished startles me, and I hope you found a list somewhere or something and didn't know all of those off the top of your head. I'm going to read over them now and report back in about 3 hours when I've completed them.
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- #162598
- Topic
- Episode II: Shroud of the Dark Side (the TM edit) (Released)
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/162598/action/topic#162598
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- Post
- #162594
- Topic
- The legendary "Starkiller Ranch" Thread
- Link
- https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/162594/action/topic#162594
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This makes me even madder that Lucas just pulled Grievous out of his posterior in between AotC and RotS. I'm sure he would have included a scene along these lines to set up the new bad guy if he knew that there WAS going to be a new bad guy in the next movie. Star Wars: Visionaries has story about the transformation of Grievous into the mechanical creature he becomes. Dooku and Sidious even have a conversation about his reconstruction, so that could provide inspiration for dialogue I'm sure.