Chlorine

TV’s Frink said:

Chlorine said:

TV’s Frink said:

Because it doesn’t explain Obi-Wan in Star Wars and Vader in ROTJ from 1977 to 2004. If you ignore the PT then it’s completely not-obvious. At best it’s Lucas trying to fix his earlier laziness through a retcon over 20 years later.

But the PT exists and i’m not ignoring it.

Yeah but you think the PT is good for some reason. PT, OT, then ST, right?

And doesn’t the very fact that he bothered to fix it at all hurt your “lazy” narrative?

No…he was lazy in 1983.

…And he corrected his mistake. Are you saying PT Lucas was less lazy than OT Lucas?

TV’s Frink said:

Because it doesn’t explain Obi-Wan in Star Wars and Vader in ROTJ from 1977 to 2004. If you ignore the PT then it’s completely not-obvious. At best it’s Lucas trying to fix his earlier laziness through a retcon over 20 years later.

But the PT exists and i’m not ignoring it. And doesn’t the very fact that he bothered to fix it at all hurt your “lazy” narrative?

TV’s Frink said:

As I said before, your theory fits the available facts but is still nothing more than a theory. There’s nothing in the films that directly points to this as the reason some Jedi disappear and some don’t. And there’s certainly nothing in the OT that points to this at all.

I don’t get what is so hard about looking at evidence and coming to an obvious conclusion. Why would Lucas write in the Qui-Gon thing that makes my theory work and not have had that in mind?

Yoda states that Qui-Gon learned the path back AFTER he died and he taught Yoda, who teaches Obi-Wan.

Yoda and Obi knew the secret before they died, and they disappeared.
Qui-Gon and Anakin didn’t know how to come back before they died, and so they didn’t disappear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7oOmkXYznU
This guy is going to save the USA.

SilverWook said:

Sure, his lackeys can say he’s in the bathroom or not available when he’s phoning up Nute Gunray in his private chambers. But how does he sneak off to meet Dooku at the end of AOTC?

The security around Palpatine, (especially after the Grevious kidnapping) is laughable.

Why are you hung up on him meeting Dooku? That’s what I am talking about. He has people cover for him.

As for security, he got kidnapped once with guards around. More guards wouldn’t do anything. They would really only be for show anyway since he planned to be caught.
Palpatine doesn’t need to have a posse around him for show, he already has the senate under his spell.
His red/blue guards are enough in that department.

SilverWook said:

Chlorine said:

SilverWook said:

Alderaan said:

SilverWook said:

Alderaan said:

Chlorine said:
Luke uses force super speed

What is force super speed?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_speed

Sorry, you can’t apply in-universe logic that was created years or decades after the movie came out.

Shame on you for not recognizing a good troll too. 😉

How else do you explain Qui-Gon and Obi Wan zipping around like the Flash in TPM?

IIRC, force speed popped up in the Super Nintendo OT games.

And my own counsel will I keep as to who’s a troll. 😉

Just out of curiosity, are you also disputing my above screenshot and that scene as showing super speed?

Not to my knowledge.

Don’t see how that applies. Anyway, let’s go back to Palpatine.

What’s your counterpoint to him having people like Mas Amedda covering for him?

SilverWook said:

https://propstore.com/blog/star-wars-the-empire-strikes-back-luke-skywalker-jump-puppet/

It says he force jumps.
So you agree with me?

SilverWook said:

Alderaan said:

SilverWook said:

Alderaan said:

Chlorine said:
Luke uses force super speed

What is force super speed?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_speed

Sorry, you can’t apply in-universe logic that was created years or decades after the movie came out.

Shame on you for not recognizing a good troll too. 😉

How else do you explain Qui-Gon and Obi Wan zipping around like the Flash in TPM?

IIRC, force speed popped up in the Super Nintendo OT games.

And my own counsel will I keep as to who’s a troll. 😉

Just out of curiosity, are you also disputing my above screenshot and that scene as showing super speed?

Alderaan said:

SilverWook said:

Alderaan said:

Chlorine said:
Luke uses force super speed

What is force super speed?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_speed

Sorry, you can’t apply in-universe logic that was created years or decades after the movie came out.

Shame on you for not recognizing a good troll too. 😉

I’m not trolling though. Luke jumps at superspeed. Just look at the image I attached to the above post.

SilverWook said:

Chlorine said:

SilverWook said:

But they can’t sense the Sith Lord sitting across from them.

If you’re wearing a black hood, calling yourself Lord Sidious, and you’re making a collect hologram call to the Sepratists, that’s kind of suspicious. Lego Star Wars made a joke about Palpatine forgetting to take the hood off in front of the Jedi.

I don’t understand. He’s not making these calls with the Jedi in the room.

As for why they can’t sense him, they do sense the dark side of the force around the Chancellor. But It’s a far cry from “he’s an unsavory man” to “the guy running the galaxy is also the Sith lord we’ve been hunting”.

It’s called hiding in plain sight.

Or it’s the Jedi can’t solve a mystery over ten years that the Scooby Doo gang could figure out in 20 minutes?

If the President of the USA was secretly Cobra Commander, you don’t think a scheduling conflict might arise while he’s wearing the blue outfit with the cool helmet? Being a president or the Chancellor of the Republic is like living in a bubble, you don’t go to the bathroom without someone knowing your whereabouts. Yet Palpatine can sneak off long enough to go to an abandoned building on the rough side of Coruscant.

Of course, this is the prequels, where the window blows out of Palpatine’s office, a major lightsaber battle ensues, and a body falls from a 100 story window, and not one of those red guards shows up. And this is in the wake of his being kidnapped at the beginning of the movie. 😉

But he has people who will cover for him. Mas Amedda for example.

I really do not get your issue.

Alderaan said:

Chlorine said:
Luke uses force super speed

What is force super speed?

Alderaan said:

People just love movies with stupid characters.

Here’s a question for you. Luke uses force super speed when escaping the carbonite pit.
Why does he never use it again?
Why doesn’t he use it to jump past Vader on the catwalk?
Why doesn’t he use it to get back in the tube when the hatch is closing after the fight?

SilverWook said:

But they can’t sense the Sith Lord sitting across from them.

If you’re wearing a black hood, calling yourself Lord Sidious, and you’re making a collect hologram call to the Sepratists, that’s kind of suspicious. Lego Star Wars made a joke about Palpatine forgetting to take the hood off in front of the Jedi.

I don’t understand. He’s not making these calls with the Jedi in the room.

As for why they can’t sense him, they do sense the dark side of the force around the Chancellor. But It’s a far cry from “he’s an unsavory man” to “the guy running the galaxy is also the Sith lord we’ve been hunting”.

It’s called hiding in plain sight.

SilverWook said:

Of course they should have used the army. But do a little digging on them in the meantime. (A throwaway line about following the money trail could have helped, even if Palpatine has the equivalent of a Swiss bank account.) The bomb won’t go off if you safely remove the fuse.

There’s just too much plot convenience playhouse going on that benefits the bad guys. Nobody ever pays Palpatine a visit when he’s got the black hood on and making a long distance call. (Would be really funny if he was addressing his minions from a locked bathroom.) Is there a Sith lord in the house? Who knows, our ability to use the Force is diminished. (Yet Yoda can sense Anakin opening a can of Dark Side on the Sandpeople light years away.) Dooku can’t possibly be behind the attempts to kill Padme, it’s not in his nature. Oh wait! He’s evil now!

One of the funniest bits in Frink’s AOTC edit is Mace and Yoda contradicting themselves on the “Who authorized the clone army?” thing. Cracks me up every time. 😉

1. Yet again, digging/asking questions would do nothing. They NEED the army.
2. What does their ability to use the force being diminished have to do with sensing Anakin?
   Diminished doesn’t mean gone, and as the Jedi with the most concentrated source of the force, Anakin would make waves in the force when committing an atrocity.

Don’t see how the hood thing is an issue either. Is wearing a hood a crime?
I have to say, most of these issues aren’t really issues at all. More like intentional misreadings. “Diminished” is a word that means “made smaller or less”.

Alderaan said:

Stupid Star Wars is the best Star Wars.

amirite?

You think you are, at least.

Alderaan said:

Chlorine said:

SilverWook said:

Again, no questions asked. It’s like buying a laptop from some guy in an alley, and using it to pay your bills online without checking for viruses and spyware.

Asking questions wouldn’t help though.
It’s really as black and white as

1. use this shady army
   or
2. have absolutely no way to defend from the Sith and their massive army at all

Sounds like the writer gave the characters a case of the stupids if you ask me.

No.
This really isn’t hard to understand, guys.
They only have two options, and one is “let the Sith and their army win right now”.
Asking questions about the clone army wouldn’t help anything.
They need it.
They have absolutely no choice.

SilverWook said:

Again, no questions asked. It’s like buying a laptop from some guy in an alley, and using it to pay your bills online without checking for viruses and spyware.

Asking questions wouldn’t help though.
It’s really as black and white as

1. use this shady army
   or
2. have absolutely no way to defend from the Sith and their massive army at all

SilverWook said:

Chlorine said:

Disco_Lobot said:

Meh - there was a “sort of” explanation… I think it was probably fine given the topic to leave it kind of vague.

Whatever happened to that Sifo-Dyas explanation btw? LOL

Do you guys even watch the movies?
The Sifo-Dyas complaint is one of the more baffling ones.

Obi-Wan says to Mace and Yoda that Sifo-Dyas supposedly ordered the army. Mace and Yoda exchange dark looks. Obi-Wan then says that he was under the impression that Sifo-Dyas had died before the date the army was commissioned. That lets us in on what Mace’s concerned look was about. Sifo-Dyas died before that date, so Mace says that whoever placed the order did not have the authorization of the Jedi council.

Then of course Obi-Wan is captured and learns who made the army by following Jango. Yoda has already left for Kamino though so he can’t tell him.

Then the ending scene with the three of them in the council chamber.
Obi- "I have to admit that without the clones it would not have been a victory."
Yoda- “No, not victory. The shroud of the dark side has fallen. Begun, the clone war has”.

---

They know that Sifo-Dyas was a fake name used by Dooku. But it’s the clone army or no army. Either they fight this war, or just roll over for the Sith.

Yeah, let’s go with this ready made army probably commissioned by a sith lord, no questions asked. They couldn’t all possibly be sleeper agents that will slaughter us at a later date if someone says rutebaga or something. 😉

?
They have 2 options.

1. shady army
2. no army

Ryan McAvoy said:

Chlorine said:

TV’s Frink said:

Lazy Lucas, was Lazy.

Eh, I disagree… (Lucas) has talked about not caring so much

You disagree?

Did you read the chain of posts? I disagreed that he didn’t think about Qui-Gon disappearing. A few posts ago I also linked an interview from 1999 that confirms it.

But you were just making a “gotcha” post, so carry on.

SilverWook said:

Chlorine said:

SilverWook said:

Maybe if George had brought Liam back to do the Qui-Gon voiceover in Episode III? Seriously, the technology existed in 2005 that Liam could have phoned his lines in from just about anywhere.
As it stands, name dropping Qui-Gon in the scene between Yoda and Obi Wan just seems to come in out of nowhere.

We heard Neeson in AotC though.

And it’s more fun to get the news WITH Obi-Wan.

Via dialog recorded for TPM.

And? The point was in relation to story. We know that Yoda has heard Qui-Gon before ROTS.

Disco_Lobot said:

Meh - there was a “sort of” explanation… I think it was probably fine given the topic to leave it kind of vague.

Whatever happened to that Sifo-Dyas explanation btw? LOL

Do you guys even watch the movies?
The Sifo-Dyas complaint is one of the more baffling ones.

Obi-Wan says to Mace and Yoda that Sifo-Dyas supposedly ordered the army. Mace and Yoda exchange dark looks. Obi-Wan then says that he was under the impression that Sifo-Dyas had died before the date the army was commissioned. That lets us in on what Mace’s concerned look was about. Sifo-Dyas died before that date, so Mace says that whoever placed the order did not have the authorization of the Jedi council.

Then of course Obi-Wan is captured and learns who made the army by following Jango. Yoda has already left for Kamino though so he can’t tell him.

Then the ending scene with the three of them in the council chamber.
Obi- "I have to admit that without the clones it would not have been a victory."
Yoda- “No, not victory. The shroud of the dark side has fallen. Begun, the clone war has”.

They know that Sifo-Dyas was a fake name used by Dooku. But it’s the clone army or no army. Either they fight this war, or just roll over for the Sith.

SilverWook said:

Maybe if George had brought Liam back to do the Qui-Gon voiceover in Episode III? Seriously, the technology existed in 2005 that Liam could have phoned his lines in from just about anywhere.
As it stands, name dropping Qui-Gon in the scene between Yoda and Obi Wan just seems to come in out of nowhere.

We heard Neeson in AotC though.

And it’s more fun to get the news WITH Obi-Wan.