Chewtobacca

I've had success with a tool for the Mac called Foxit Video Converter that will convert the .m2ts stream to .ts.  I think DVDFab will do this on the PC itself but I've been running off an expired (read: free) version that has the conversion features disabled.

I take it there's a reason why you don't simply use tsmuxer.

It all looks and sounds really good, but isn't the perfect-as-original stuff I've done with Womble and standard-def. 

Have you experimented with M2TS cutters?  There are a few available, and VideoRedo apparently has a smart rendering function.  This is the only way that you're going to get the same results as you used to with Womble.  Really though, re-encoding a Blu-ray with x264, especially with the higher quality settings, is extremely close to the source -- far more so than in the early days when people used to re-encode DVDs after editing.  I don't think having to re-encode the video should be any kind of issue.

msycamore said:Chewtobacca, maybe you could take use of this filter: http://www.geocities.com/siwalters_uk/chromashift.html to correct some of the bad color registration.

Thanks, I'll have a look.  My plan was to release unfiltered versions first and see what people think, and later release improved filtered versions that take into account what people who like these old transfers want to see.  For Star Wars, I'm really keen to make a hybrid with the Technidisc.  At the moment, I'm still trying to find time to work on the positioning of the subs for ROTJ.

Darth Bizarro said: Can I assume that these black spaces are there to keep the sound mix in sync?

Yes.

Warbler said: do you think they look better on the DVD than on the blu ray?

The space scenes look better overall on the BD, but for me this is a case of high definition highlighting deficiencies in material that are less apparent in standard definition.

There will be a delay with the ROTJ DVD because I forgot about the subs. Doh! 

I take it that the IVTC script for ROTJ synchronizes it to the NTSC GOUT, rather than the PAL GOUT, because that is what the audio mixes are synchronized to.  I'll have to ask msycamore about the subs.

Warbler said:

What do mean the TOS space scenes look bad on the BD?  May I remind you the special effect scenes done in the 1960s?  Do they really look better on the DVD or is it just a problem of going from the HD non-space scenes to the non-HD space scenes?

It's a problem of going from the non-space scenes, which have cleaned up really well, to the space scenes, which haven't.  That's what I meant when I said that watching the DVDs was less jarring.  I'm not saying that the effects look bad because they're dated.

huh? so what Chewtobacca wrong when he said this?

Chewtobacca said:.  I wish TNG were in the same situation as TOS and that only the space scenes were done on video, but it's not the case, and I really don't see how including the original effects is feasible.

if the TOS space scenes were done on video, how were they able to get transfer them to HD?

I didn't mean to imply that TOS space scenes were done on video.  I meant that I wish that TNG and TOS were in the same situation in terms of seamless branching because if the only scenes with video effects from TNG were the space scenes then branching might be possible.  Sorry, I should have been more precise.  Doubleofive is right: TOS space scenes were on film.

@Tobar

The information you posted sounds very promising.

Happy New Year! :-)

A DVD-5 of ESB is finished.  Apart from conversion to anamorphic widescreen and light sharpening, there has been no filtering.  PM me if you are interested.  ROTJ will be next, and then SW.

At some point, I hope that there will be filtered second versions based on the work g-force has already done for SW.  As I have never worked with laserdisc material before, I will have to learn almost everything from scratch.  Msycamore and g-force have already said that they will help.

Merry Christmas one and all!

Seems like 601 should apply here...

Thanks, Darth Mallwalker.  It looks as if no adjustment is needed then.

Does laserdisc conform to Rec.601?  I prefer to flag colorimetry when I make DVDs and as these are raw captures I want to know if I need to make some sort of adjustment.  Didn't Japanese NTSC use a different black level from North America?

I applied Darth Mallwalker's IVTC script to the capture of ESB, encoded the video with x264 and muxed it to MKV with hairy_hen's 5.1 --I assume he doesn't mind.  The resulting file is quite small, but the quality should be good enough to reflect what the raw capture is like.  PM me if you're interested.

Gaffer Tape said:  I'd just hate for this new version to become the default TNG.  It's quite a conundrum.

It is a conundrum.  I suppose it would be possible for Paramount to include 480i (SD) encodings from the original masters, on the Blu-rays.  That way the original effects would be preserved, there would be no jump in quality during the episodes, and at that resolution they would not take up much space on BD-50s, which are rarely filled to the brim anyway.  Whether the studio would go to the trouble of doing this, I don't know, but it's a potential solution.

They play "as is" in VLC, but you'll see combing.

Darth Mallwalker said:msycamore wasn't the only one who said might like to tinker with those files.  Mattman mentioned it in another thread, and iirc somebody else too (was it Chewtobacco?)

Many thanks for uploading all these files, Darth Mallwalker.  Your IVTC script is very much appreciated.  It must have taken you ages.  I don't think I'm cut out to be any kind of project leader, but I am absolutely thrilled to be able to access these files and do plan to make MKVs and DVDs out of them.

Ah, Doctor Who!  I was only ever a fan of the older shows, and even then was never a big one.

Are we afraid that we'll never get the first 4 seasons after/if DVD dies?

I shouldn't think so.  They would probably still be available on Netflix or similar services in the future, and of course preservations would be easy to do.  It's things that never had a decent home video release or were released pre-DVD that I worry about losing.

doubleofive said:  The issue with that would be every viewscreen, phaser blast, and transporter effect has to be redone, meaning flipping back and forth between 1080p and less-than-DVD quality quite frequently.  I don't think seamless branching is an option, you'd have to have the entire series on the discs twice.

This.  TNG is simply not in the same situation as TOS.  Even TOS space scenes look quite bad on BD: if I want to see the original effects, which I often do, it's less jarring to watch the DVDs.

There's a whole bunch of shows done on video that will never be out on Blu-ray, why aren't we fighting over them?

I'd certainly fight for their release on BD.  What do you have in mind apart from the other Star Trek series and of course Bab5?

And I apologize that this thread has gotten so heated.

I'm sorry too, man.  It's nothing personal.  I didn't see this edit, until after I'd posted.

    I'm not sure how much clearer I can make my opinion, but I'm getting a bit weary of having to reiterate it to you.

The feeling's mutual.  I really do understand that you want the original effects, but it's statements like this Hate to keep raining on this parade, but I still don't see the point of redoing the effects for HD anyway that I take issue with. It's the fact that you don't see the point of changing the effects for HD.

    I never said that.  That was TheBoost.

You're right.  That was TheBoost.  I'm sorry I misquoted you: I was thinking of another post.

Finally, to answer your question:  the same way every other movie studio constantly re-releases things without altering the content.  It happens all the time, and people still buy re-releases.  And before you get on to me for saying that, that's not necessarily what I'm saying they should do in this situation.  You just asked me this question, and I gave you a plausible scenario.

It's not plausible at all because the Blu-rays would not be a re-release.  I asked you to explain how Paramount could feasibly release the series on Blu-ray without redoing the effects.  Of course, Paramount could release the DVDs again, but most fans who want those already have them.  In order for Paramount to make it commercially feasible to sell the Blu-rays to fans, many of whom already have the DVDs, it is necessary to offer people an HD experience that would persuade them to upgrade.  The other way is to upscale all the effects, which would look worse than the DVDs.  I wish TNG were in the same situation as TOS and that only the space scenes were done on video, but it's not the case, and I really don't see how including the original effects is feasible.

I'm not sure why you take issue with it.  You think I'm here to rain on your parade.  I'm not.  If you want recreated effects, wonderful.  I hope you enjoy them immensely.  But that's not why I'm concerned about the subject.  My only concern is the future of the original versions.

I think you have changed your tune from the time when you posted things such as this:

Perhaps I'm not clear.  We WANT them to re-do the SFX form TNG and Bab5?  I thought this website is against that type of thing?

and this:

Wait, they're recomping all the visual effects?  I'm with TheBoost.  Aren't we against that?  I know I'm against that.

You'll forgive me if I received the impression that you were against the recreation of the effects.

But that's not why I'm concerned about the subject.  My only concern is the future of the original versions.

Paramount has already released many many copies of the original versions.  Track some down or start a preservation thread if you are concerned about the future of the original versions, but this thread is about the Blu-rays and what Paramount is doing to make a Blu-ray release feasible. I'll quote myself to save some typing, because you still haven't addressed this:  If you disagree that redoing the effects is necessary explain how Paramount would convince people to buy Blu-rays that were just upscales of the originals, which is the only other way of doing it.

And what if I want to see the best possible version of the live action elements with the best possible version of the original effects? 

The effects intrude on the live action elements, so that's not really possible, and even it were it would mean that you want the live action elements to look better than they originally looked.

And "Just be happy with the DVDs" does sound exactly like something a Star Wars fan would say to one of us.

It's not the same situation because the GOUT DVDs are atrocious quality and do not come close to doing the original Star Wars justice, whereas the Star Trek DVDs do look like the show did when it was broadcast.

No.  I'm not missing that point.  I know exactly how TNG was made, and why some people feel redoing the effects is necessary.  I just disagree.

You don't post as if you know that because you said: Tell that to the people arguing in the General Star Wars section whether or not recomping the original effects digitally would count as the original or is something that needs to be done.  Or tell it to the fandom at large, many of whom DID and DO feel that the CG updates were necessary for the films to exist in this modern world, when I said it wasn't necessary for Star Wars to go through post production again to have a quality release.  If you disagree that redoing the effects is necessary explain how Paramount would convince people to buy Blu-rays that were just upscales of the originals, which is the only other way of doing it.  They would look worse than the DVDs in my opinion, because there was a DS9 episode on the original series Blu-rays and it looked worse than the DVDs, again in my opinion.

It seems you're missing my point, which is all about whether or not the original effects continue to be made available for current and future releases. 

I'm not missing that point.  You've also said that you don't see the point of redoing the effects in HD and that's what I take issue with.

Taking great care to be true to the original is still not the same as the original.

Of course it's not, but the point is that you said that you didn't see how it was different from "George's line" when it quite clearly is.  Lucas modifies Star Wars to bring it in line with what he claims to be his original vision.  What Paramount is doing is in no way comparable.  The originals were not in HD, and as your opinion is...

my opinion in this case would honestly be, "Well, it wasn't made to be seen in HD?  Too bad.  It is what it is."  I certainly don't see it as at all necessary. 

... I don't see why you care enough to bother to post in the Blu-ray thread and argue about it.  If that's your view, an HD version couldn't possibly satisfy you  Just be happy with the DVDs.

It's not necessary for Star Wars to go through post production again to have a quality release.

Tell that to the people arguing in the General Star Wars section whether or not recomping the original effects digitally would count as the original or is something that needs to be done.  Or tell it to the fandom at large, many of whom DID and DO feel that the CG updates were necessary for the films to exist in this modern world.

You missed the point.  All of the original effects are on the original negative (and/or whatever prints survive), so an HD version could be made without redoing all the effects.   That's not the case for TNG: the effects are not part of the negative.  They were done on video.

Gaffer Tape said:

It's not entirely analogous, but to say it's nothing like it is silly.

It's not silly to state that two things are nothing alike if one cannot see the similarity at all.  (I can't.)  TNG has received a release that essentially equals the quality of the original.  Star Wars has not. 

Isn't the point that the originals are not readily available, that they only exist in either unofficial fan preservations or as out-of-print rarities while a new version takes its official place?  That history is being buried and rewritten? 

Yes, and that's why TNG is nothing like Star Wars because the original is readily available.  I see no evidence whatsoever that the people at Paramount are attempting to revise history as Lucas is.  They seem to be taking great care to be true to the original.  Recreating the effects is necessary for the conversion to true HD in the case of TNG because it was a TV show that went through post production in video, not a motion picture.  It's not necessary for Star Wars to go through post production again to have a quality release.

Paramount can't keep making the same old DVDs indefinitely.  There's no market for it.  People that want them have already bought them.  The only way that the studio can sell the show again is to convert it to HD with recreated effects.  If you don't want that, then just buy the DVDs.

Gaffer Tape said: And if the original work is only going to end up being relegated to old, eventually out-of-print DVDs that can only be found used, how is that any different from George's line of, "The originals are out there on VHS, if anyone wants them"?

It's different because the VHS releases do not look the way that Star Wars looked in 1977, whereas the Star Trek DVDs do look the way that TNG looked when it was broadcast on TV.  There are countless copies of TNG as it has always looked out there, so future preservations, if they ever become necessary, will be incredibly easy.  This is nothing like the Star Wars situation.

I think that I would be happy with encodings from the NTSC masters, even if they are only a little better than the DVDs, as long as I could see the show in 4:3 again.  Those screenshots look all right.