ChainsawAsh

DrDre said:

If TROS turns out to be a great film, I’m not going to let a cameo by Hayde ruin it for me. I don’t care that much about canon anyway. I care about good stories, and if Abrams can get a great performance out of Hayden, that enhances the story, I’m all for it.

I agree…

…if Hayden is used in a flashback or hologram. If he’s a Force ghost, the movie better be absurdly good in order for me not to discard the ST entirely over it.

Or he better be really easy to cut out in a fan edit.

Petty? Yep. And I might change my mind between now and December. But the very idea of bringing Hayden back as Anakin’s ghost makes my blood boil.

I googled the Mike guy and it seems to be some YouTuber I don’t give a shit about, so I really don’t see your point here.

In fact, I don’t really see your point in any of this, so I’m bowing out before I get in trouble.

Oh, I’m sorry, I didn’t realize “a majority of fans” was an absolute statement. I didn’t realize that meant “literally every single person who ever saw the movie.” Sorry. Guess I need to go back to elementary school and re-learn how to speak English.

You’re the one who seems insistent that it was this huge gaping problem until Wise Old George decided to fix this massive flaw in the narrative.

I found one:

Can’t seem to find my Empire mockup though. I really wish we had an option to see every thread begun by a user on the forums…

JEDIT: Aha! Here we go - sadly I used Photobucket in the actual thread, so there’s watermarks on the rest. Here’s ESB:

Here’s doubleofive’s color mockups:

And he did mockups (including color alts) of the start of the ESB crawl with no logo/title text at the top:

And I even mocked up the prequels, though I had no intention of doing them at the time (my AOTC was crap and I don’t like the G on ROTS):

You act like you’re the only person who existed during that time, therefore only your perceptions have merit.

MikeWW said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Wasn’t a problem for anyone from 1983-2004.

Source?

The vast majority of fans that weren’t confused in that 21 year period…? I never met anyone who didn’t recognize Shaw as Anakin before 2004. You’re really twisting things if you think it was ever an actual issue for anyone.

Wasn’t a problem for anyone from 1983-2004.

The comment of mine that you quoted in your reply specifically mentioned canon, but okay, whatever.

Has nothing to do with canon whatsoever.

BedeHistory731 said:

MikeWW said:

Another SE style thing would be the ship combat scenes. The ST uses no practical scale ship models. (That I’m aware of.)

That’s just the forward march of special effects technology. Heck, the SE’s and bits of TPM used scale models for some material (e.g., the sandcrawler, several TPM ships, etc.).

Yep, exactly. I don’t see how using more contemporary filmmaking techniques means the SE is any more canon than the OOT.

Shopping Maul said:

ChainsawAsh said:

What? No he didn’t. Ewan isn’t featured in the SE in any way, shape, or form. He was in the PT, and the ST also references Darth Sidious, which is another PT invention. I’ve made my peace with the PT through fan edits, so these things are fine with me.

And Alec Guinness is in TFA too, in the same line as Ewan. (Guinness says “Rey” and Ewan says “these are your first steps.”) So I really don’t understand your point with Ewan’s TFA line.

And I don’t give two shits what is officially canon or not. The OOT works with zero problems with the ST. Until something appears in an ST film that only works because of an SE change, either version of the OT is on equal footing canon wise, and I choose the original version.

A trivial detail perhaps, but doesn’t Rogue One show a ‘SE-style’ entrance for the Yavin base? That puts Disney SW in a separate canon to the unaltered OT.

Shit, yeah, that’s a good point. But that’s something I can justify away similarly to SilverWook - and it’s a purely aesthetic background detail.

I wouldn’t mind that, but it would definitely bother me if he looked the way he did in the prequels.

StarkillerAG said:

It would please both OOT and SE fans

Would it though?

Yes, the first LD releases had the theatrical Dolby Surround mixes (the 2.0/matrixed 4.0). These tracks are included on Despecialized and 4K77/4K83’s releases, too (and 4K83, as a bonus, has the actual Dolby Surround audio from the print as the primary audio track).

The mono tracks weren’t, though - the 1977 35mm mono we have from early TV broadcast recordings, and the ESB and ROTJ 16mm mono tracks we have from 16mm prints.

Isn’t that article about the same exact screening your last link was about? (Serious question, I stopped reading and closed the tab when it threw a whole page banner ad in my face despite uBlock being on.)

Or a machine that…

You know what, nevermind I’m not touching that one.

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

MikeWW said:

SilverWook said:

I trust you didn’t watch the 2004 version of THX?

Other than the highway car shots, pretty much all the changes are improvements IMO.

Looks at name of forum, then your post, then at name of forum again and goes cross-eyed.

The Star Wars SEs have more questionable stuff in them than THX 2004 does IMO.
The effects are less dodgy, most of it doesn’t change the tone, and like the best SE changes, it makes the world feel less low budget. The THX working scenes feel a lot better with people out of focus in the background all toiling away too.

It does so change the tone. The vast underground cityscapes take away from the claustropohic feel of the original. Lucas got the look he wanted by shooting real locations in Northern California. Things like the video screen above the complaint box are pointless, and the hands on the Robert Duvall stand in on the monitor aren’t even in the same position. And don’t get me started on those mangy CGI baboons that replaced some of the shell dwellers. The bigger crime is there’s no way for the average viewer to know they’re watching an altered version. There are no SE credits. There isn’t even a crappy non-anamorphic DVD of the original for people to choose to watch.
Many members of this site have dedicated years to preserving the original THX, so you’re barking up a very large non-cgi tree on this.

I get preserving these things, but that doesn’t mean the altered version sucks.

Not inherently, but THX’s DC has more wrong with it than ESB’s Special Edition if you ask me. I hate that it’s most people’s first/only exposure to the film.

I’ll concede that it’s overall less offensive than ANH and ROTJ’s SE’s, though.

That…might work for me.

MikeWW said:

ChainsawAsh said:

What? No he didn’t. Ewan isn’t featured in the SE in any way, shape, or form. He was in the PT, and the ST also references Darth Sidious, which is another PT invention. I’ve made my peace with the PT through fan edits, so these things are fine with me.

And Alec Guinness is in TFA too, in the same line as Ewan. (Guinness says “Rey” and Ewan says “these are your first steps.”) So I really don’t understand your point with Ewan’s TFA line.

And I don’t give two shits what is officially canon or not. The OOT works with zero problems with the ST. Until something appears in an ST film that only works because of an SE change, either version of the OT is on equal footing canon wise, and I choose the original version.

I…? Ewan McGregor played Hayden Christensen’s master.

Yeah, so? How does that make Ewan McGregor’s Obi-Wan have anything to do with the SE’s? The OOT works just as well in the context of the prequels as the SE’s do, whether it’s Shaw or Christensen as the ghost or not. I have no idea where you’re getting the idea that “Ewan voicing one line as Obi-Wan in TFA means Christensen’s ghost is canon and Shaw’s can’t be.”

And I’m pretty sure Disney has never outright said that the SE is canon and the OOT isn’t, just that the original trilogy itself is canon. Which means whichever version of the OT you prefer works as the “canon” version for you. If you can point me to an official Disney source that says the SE is the canon version, go right ahead. But that’s irrelevant to me either way so long as the ST plays it neutral.

I say again: any aspect of the ST that unambiguously makes the SE the only canon version of the OT will make me write off the entire ST. Full stop. That includes Christensen playing Ghost Anakin.

What? No he didn’t. Ewan isn’t featured in the SE in any way, shape, or form. He was in the PT, and the ST also references Darth Sidious, which is another PT invention. I’ve made my peace with the PT through fan edits, so these things are fine with me.

And Alec Guinness is in TFA too, in the same line as Ewan. (Guinness says “Rey” and Ewan says “these are your first steps.”) So I really don’t understand your point with Ewan’s TFA line.

And I don’t give two shits what is officially canon or not. The OOT works with zero problems with the ST. Until something appears in an ST film that only works because of an SE change, either version of the OT is on equal footing canon wise, and I choose the original version.

The style is irrelevant.

Did Starkiller Base have a stupid ring around it when it exploded? Nope.

Was there a scene on Cloud City depicting the SE windows instead of the OT windowless hallways? Nope.

Was there a Sarlacc on Jakku with a stupid beak? Nope.

Has Hayden Christensen showed up as the ghost of Anakin? Nope.

Nothing depicted in the post-Disney films requires the SE versions of the OT in order to work. Therefore, either version of the OT could be canon at this point, regardless of which version is “officially” canon.

MikeWW said:

jajje said:

…and Warwick Davis himself has confirmed that they used him as a kind of Yoda stand-in for one scene in TPM, walking in a long shot, and obviously it was kept in the movie, and that whole sequence with fake-Mace also, seems kind of botched together, perhaps last-minute. Been a long time since I managed to sit through the whole ending of TPM.

Wdym? TPM is probably the best non OT movie.

Not by a long shot.

It’s the best prequel, but it’s still a terrible movie.

The new movies have very deliberately sidestepped which version of the OT is canon. If they take a stance, and that stance is the SE is canon, I’m out.

Too many people would be pissed if it was Hayden (canonizing the 2004/2011 SE), and too many people would be pissed if it was an actor who looked like Sebastian Shaw (canonizing the 1983 TC/1997 SE/giving a middle finger to the PT).

It’s a no-win situation to use Anakin’s ghost.

ray_afraid said:

Omni said:

+1 for ROTS as best and TPM as worst prequels.

Oh, wait… hahaha, it’s funny how most people not from this forum that I’ve talked to about this seem to agree that ROTS is the best of the bunch and TPM the worst.

I think that’s because ROTS has all the stuff that should have been spread out across all three films.
It’s the stuff we were all excited to see in this trilogy. So, even though it’s all silly, corny, contrived and shoe-horned in, it’s what we originally showed up to see in 1999. It’s all just done quick, dirty, very poorly and crammed into one film. And this makes it the worst for me.
TPM at least looks like a movie and has some spirit to it. It’s also terrible though.

Yep, all of this. Though I do still think ROTS is better than the horrendous mess that is AOTC.