ChainsawAsh

The reason I'm so for keeping the secrets is that when I first saw the prequels, the fact that George didn't even bother was one of the biggest disappointments for me.  If we're going to say that people should watch them in chronological order (which the numbering "Episode I," "II," and "III" seems to suggest), we should at least make them in such a way that they could be watched that way if someone who's never heard of "Star Wars" sees them in that order.

Wow - that actually sounds like it could make a fantastic movie.  I like it a LOT.

And the difference in your Episode I and Lucas' is maturity and respect for the original trilogy.

Oh, and what if C-3PO is Bail's protocol droid on Alderaan while R2-D2 is Obi-Wan's?  They meet at the end of the movie (Threepio remains on Alderaan for the majority, and Artoo would be a small presence that provides the same plot device he provides so often in the OT - unlocking doors and deciphering computers, etc).

I'm not sure about the title, though.  I know the PT's titles aren't bad (except AOTC), but I think we need to try to distinguish these from the PT in any way possible, including the name.

I almost want to start a draft of the script based on that outline ...

No, the Legend Films DVD does indeed look nice.  There are SO many versions of this on DVD, though, it makes it very hard to know what you're getting.  But the new one, the one packaged with a sticker on the outside mentioning the Will Smith version, looks pretty damned good.

From what I've heard, everything will be wrapped up (if not 100% neatly), and nothing will be left to be explained on the "Caprica" show.  They're intended to be completely self-contained, separate shows, where you won't need to see the other to enjoy either one.  Or so RDM says.  We'll see how it goes.

Otherwise, I'm anxiously awaiting tonight's episode.  Only 7 to go after this ...

I wrote a short scene between Anakin and Obi-Wan aboard the spice freighter.  It was just a thought I had to get across the characters of Anakin and Obi-Wan, and the information about the Sith pirates and the nature of Vader.  I think it does a good job of getting a lot of information across in a short period of time, without having to build the Vader thing up over several movies as some have suggested would need to be done.  Tell me what you think:

I'm fine with leaving Scarecrow open, but you don't need him to say that awful line in such a bored "Look at me, I got paid a ridiculous amount of money to come here for one day and say this one line" way to do it.  It makes me cringe (literally) every time I hear it.

That one doesn't bother me for some reason.

Well, I always thought he had a voice changer in his mask, in order to make himself sound scarier.  Remember, he sounded that way to Rachel at the end of BB, who was immune to his gas at the time.  The whole scene is just lazily performed by Murphy, which is sad because I really like him as an actor - those two changes would fix his performance 100%.

Another cheesy line my friends reminded me of: "No more dead cops!"

I like I and II a lot, but not so sure about III.  I don't think there should be a Jedi Council at all.  I also don't think we should introduce the Emperor idea so late - that should come during II, in my opinion.  I also don't know what to think about us knowing the twins so early, though if there's one OT surprise we have to drop, that would be the one to drop.

I do, however, like the idea of them seeking Yoda's advice about the children.

I do like the Sith pirates thing, and if we need to use the Sith in some way, that's the way to do it.

That's what I figured.

I don't think TIE lasers ever had white cores, they were always a light shade of green like that if I'm not mistaken.

WheresBlackhawk said:

Breathe, ChainsawAsh, It's all good.  It may just take some time to get everyone on the same page.  Patience is a virtue.  I'm with ya, man.  Like you and Erik said, if we pay too much attention to the prequels or the EU or the old scripts we have already blown the CONCEPT we were going for.  A few pages back I posted THE FACTS as SHOWN in the OT.  Those are really the ONLY things we need to stick to.  As someone previously said, this PT should be exciting whether you watch it 4-6, 1-3 or 1-6.  If we only stick to the facts, it will make the whole project more exciting for the viewer, because they won't know what to expect.

Erik... I like some of your ideas, but i don't think we have the time to spend an entire movie on just Obiwan's development.  AND I think we really need to try to make Yoda a PRESENCE without being PRESENT.  He should be built up as being, frankly, the most powerful Jedi, but not seen on screen to make his appearance in ESB that much more of a surprise.  Luke was surprised...after all the build up, so should we.

Still curious about people's ideas for the wars.

Sorry if I came across as a jerk in my last post, I really didn't mean to.  I have a very set idea of what I'd like this to be, but it's difficult for me to communicate that in words since it's not fully-formulated in my head, either.

That concept art is pretty interesting.  We should take a look at some OT-era unused McQuarrie art, too - he had some good stuff that wasn't used if I recall.

BTW, my real name is Erik, so if I get mixed up and think you're talking to me when you're talking to Erikstormtrooper, I apologize in advance.  It's already starting to get confusing to me.

People, we need to stop feeling like we HAVE to include certain things because they're "entrenched in Star Wars lore."  For our purposes, the ONLY things that are "entrenched in the lore" are anything seen or heard on-screen in STAR WARS, THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, and RETURN OF THE JEDI.  That is IT.

That means we DON'T KNOW how Anakin got scarred.  It could have been in a duel with Obi-Wan, but maybe not.

We have NEVER HEARD of "Sith."  Sure, Vader is mentioned as a Dark Lord in the OT, but never is the word "Sith" uttered.  I don't think it needs to be, and I don't think that Palpatine and Vader need to be a part of any organization other than the Empire.  They are using the Force outside of the Jedi Order, tapping into the "dark side," but I don't see why they need to be part of any sort of organization.

Everyone's coming up with some fantastic ideas, but for every step forward, we take two back when we feel we can't change something because it's "too entrenched in Star Wars lore."  If you look at it that way, what's the point of doing any of this?  The prequels are pretty fucking entrenched in Star Wars lore if you ask me.

I thought the pace of 403-412 was way too frantic to the point where it sacrificed characterization for plot.  I'm very glad that 413-422 seems to be going at a much more deliberate pace.  I've always liked the "character" episodes more than the "plot" episodes anyway.

Exactly, that was my thought - they never say that Obi-Wan was the one that caused it.  It was in the ROTJ novelization IIRC, but never on screen in the OT.

I think we can safely forget everything that wasn't shown on-screen in ANH, ESB and ROTJ when planning for this (unless we are indeed going to keep some of Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy ideas, like the clones, which I think is a great idea).

Thank you!  I'm so glad someone brought that issue up.  I hated the idea of the "Sith," especially the way they operate in the current PT.  But what bugs me most is that before the PT, my impression was that Vader and Palpatine represented a different kind of organization than the Jedi were, one that wasn't remotely spiritual, and they used something spiritual in a way it should never be used in order to crush the Jedi in the name of conformity and order (the only way to have the two, in their minds, being the elimination of spirituality, which the Jedi represented).

There should be nothing of the sort in our PT.  Palpatine is not the leader of any order, just a Hitler-esque politician who uses the Force in a way it shouldn't be (the "Dark Side") to gain power.  He sees that he needs other Force-users once his power becomes more vast before he can becom Emperor, and thus attempts to corrupt some of the best Jedi in order to turn them rather than trying to find one in his military or administration.

The Boba idea is interesting, but I don't think he really needs much of a story.  We could try it out, and if it becomes detrimental to the story, we can write it out.

Octorox said:

Some of the ideas mentioned in this thread don't sit well with me because they completely throw off the whole idea of the "saga" being about the fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker.

That's funny because I never thought that's what Star Wars should be about, which is part of why I'm so excited about this.

The original trilogy is about Luke, not Anakin.  The prequel trilogy, while I feel it should be able to be seen first without spoiling the surprises of the OT, should only exist to give context to the original trilogy, and I feel that Obi-Wan should be the central character while Anakin's role (size-wise) should be roughly equivalent to his role in the OT.

Ah, you saw the prequels first - that explains why you're much, much, much more willing to preserve some of George's ideas than we are.

To me, the PT took everything I loved about the OT and made it pretty much irrelevent.  The Jedi were NOTHING like they were depicted in the originals, the Republic wasn't a Republic, and the Clone Wars made no sense, among other problems (i.e. the whole movies feeling like the Endor and Tattooine scenes of ROTJ, a flawed film I'm working on fixing for my first fan edit).

The only difference is that the alternate opening is in HD on the Blu-Ray, if I'm not mistaken.

Bingowings and Blackhawk, you guys both have very, very good ideas here.  I'm really liking the way this seems to be shaping up.

I've changed my mind in regards to how I wanted to plan these out in the beginning.  Instead of planning all three films out in one fell swoop before writing them, we should get Episode I taken care of, first, before the other two, as a standalone film, much the way 'Star Wars' was done.  Then afterwards, when I is written and ready to be produced, we can start working on the story for II and III, at once, the way V and VI were.  (I'm fully aware that the outline for VI written in '78 was thrown out after Gary Kurtz left, and we were left with Oola and Ewoks and such, but hey, wouldn't it have been fantastic if that hadn't happened?)

Torrent links aren't allowed on the forum.  You might want to delete that before a mod gets on your ass.

How do you go from a naive kid who wants to see the stars to someone who speaks like James Earl Jones?  I don't think the manner of speaking should be a major concern from the get-go, that's a dialogue issue to be worked out in the script stage.  I personally feel that the way he speaks in the OT should be learned from Obi-Wan as a diplomacy tool.

In retrospect, I guess I answered my own question there.

But anyway, I still think you're too attached to the Lucas prequels - there's nothing wrong with parallelism or symbolism, but you have to be careful that it doesn't border on rehash or lazy storytelling.

I don't think thre's a problem with Owen being Obi-Wan's brother, but I don't know about the Anakin being Han-like, either.  I think Anakin should be his own character, not a copy of another character from the OT.  He needs to be a compliment to Obi-Wan, the kind of person that really WOULD be a good friend to him.  He also needs to be an incredibly gifted pilot and fighter with a very strong aptitude for the Force, but just a little bit reckless, to the point where he'd rather fight his way through a problem than be patient and figure out a peaceful solution, which is Obi-Wan's forte.

I think your ideas retain too many current prequel elements - Anakin, Owen and Obi-Wan should NOT live on Tattooine, Anakin should NOT have anything to do with Threepio's "origin," though your ideas are indeed better than those in TPM (I do like your Artoo idea, though), and the whole Lars family thing just feels too clunky.  I think Owen is the only member of the Lars family that should be seen in the prequels.

Erikstormtrooper's ideas I like.  I don't know about the last name thing, but it's interesting - I just think you're taking the "no longer has any meaning to me" thing a little too literally.  And I don't think Luke/Leia's mother should die.  In fact, it might be a good idea for her to be an Organa, or at least a member of Alderaan's royal family.  And Alderaan should be a major location in the trilogy, NOT TATTOOINE.  There's already plenty of time spent on that planet in the OT.

I think it may be interesting if the Jedi realize at some point that the tide is turning in such a way as to cause an incredible imbalance in the Force, and the only way they can stop it is to oppose the Republic - thus birthing the Rebellion.  This also makes it very easy for the Empire to discredit the Jedi, saying that they were fighting for the enemy in Clone War II (whether they do or not depends on who the enemy ends up being).