ChainsawAsh

I wouldn't edit from the raw VOBs no matter what editing platform you choose.  I'd strongly recommend converting the DVD files to lossless AVI (lagarith or huffyuv codec), and load that into Vegas or Premiere.  When you've finished editing, render it out as another lossless AVI, then use that one to convert back to DVD or whatever other format you decide to distribute with.  The downside is that you'll need a LOT more hard drive space for this (I'd go with at least 500GB just to be safe, though I doubt you'll need that much).

To answer your question, I've never used Vegas, but Premiere really isn't that hard to learn how to use.  It's what I learned how to edit on back in high school.

AuggieBenDoggie said:

Wow, this thread has really turned to the dark side.

Anyway; Ady,what ever format you choose, I hope it's compatible with my sony blu-ray player, because A new Hope: revisited sure isn't. Sony doesn't support the majority of the codecs people use for fan edits.

Sony doesn't support standard DVD format?  Somehow I doubt that...

So the GOUT is better quality overall than the raw X0 capture, BUT...what about adding the crawl and first shot of the X0 capture with the rest of the GOUT, so we can finally have the 1981 version (with "Episode IV: A New Hope") in decent quality?

DJ may even be able to use this to make a selectable crawl on his V3 set before he finally releases it (assuming he's willing to do that now that we have a good-quality source for the 1981 crawl).

--edit--

Sorry msycamore, didn't see your post before I started typing.  Didn't mean to step on your toes there, my bad.

Dark_Jedi captured them and put them on his GOUT V3 set, so once those are released, all three 35mm stereo mixes will be out in the wild (he's included the Belbucus one on his ANH disc as well, I believe).

Apocalypse Now
Theatrical all the way.  "Redux" lags really badly - it's a chore to sit through rather than a treat.  Never seen the workprint.

Alien
Theatrical as well.  The cocoon scene slows the pace down too much, and while I like some of the other additions to the DC, I wish some things hadn't been cut out.  This one's more of a toss-up, though, I could watch either and be happy.

Aliens
Neither.  I prefer the Special Edition overall, but hate the scenes on LV-426 before the Marines arrive.  I guess I'd go with theatrical, but I do really like most of the Special Edition, so I have to say neither.

Blade Runner
Final Cut.  I may be biased as this is the only version I've seen in a movie theater, but I don't care.  It's pretty much perfect IMO.

Terminator 2
Special Edition.  Theatrical feels stunted and incomplete.  Admittedly, the SE is a little bloated, but I'd rather have too much of a good thing than not enough.

@OperationBedlam - Unfortunately, there is a need for a conversion.  The Region 1 DVD uses the same PAL-to-NTSC standards conversion the BBC uses for the rest of its Doctor Who DVDs.  This type of conversion preserves the PAL duration and audio speed.  This is fine (in fact, it's great) for regular Doctor Who releases, as every episode of the show is shot at 25fps, and a 25-to-24 conversion would lower the audio pitch awkwardly.

But, since the TV movie was shot in North America, on 35mm, at 24fps - instead of in the UK at 25fps - this means that ALL official retail DVDs of the TV movie, regardless of PAL or NTSC standard, run 4% fast, and the audio is 4% higher in pitch - including the Region 1 release.  I'm also going to be releasing a pure standards-converted DVD of the official cut for those who want to see the movie as originally broadcast at its proper speed - see my other thread in the Other Preservations section for more information on this.

@Aluminum Falcon - Yeah, the Seventh Doctor still gets killed by the exploratory heart surgery.  There really isn't any way around it.  I've cut down that sequence a little bit, specifically cutting the cartoony scream (which was cut in the original UK broadcast, as well) and the "Timing malfunction ... the Master ... " line, since in this cut we don't know that the snake-thing is the Master until Bruce says so.  (I'm also toying with cutting his morning-after conversation with Bruce's wife, but I'm not sure if that's gonna happen or not.)

The Bends > OK Computer > In Rainbows

All their other albums are beneath those three.  Though King of Limbs is growing on me slowly.

It's looking like it's going to be two ~30-minute episodes at the moment.

As in, part 1 is currently at 45 minutes, part 2 at 37, and I'm going to try to get each down to ~25-30.  They might end up being different lengths, but whatever, right?

Also, Part 1 ends when the Master arrives at Grace's in the ambulance to pick up the Doctor and Grace.  Part 1 ends with the Doctor and the Master looking at each other, the audience believing that the Doctor recognizes the Master.  Part 2 begins with the Doctor not recognizing the Master, and going with him instead.

Also, I've cut the moment were the Seventh Doctor screams while being operated on, and his reference to the Master in the same scene (as the whole opening sequence has been cut, I'd like to keep the audience in suspense as to who or what the snake-looking thing is, until the Master reveals who he is in the bedroom).  The whole scene flows much better.

In fact, the regeneration scene - at the moment - is only 15 minutes into the first episode, so we get to the Eighth Doctor a lot quicker than in the "official" cut.

Big Finish's Doctor Who Eighth Doctor audio dramas.  Currently listening to The Time of the Daleks.

On the whole, it's been very, very good, with the exception of Minuet in Hell, which was pretty terrible.  I'll even go so far as to say The Chimes of Midnight and Embrace the Darkness are better than much of the current 2005-present series.

I'm almost upon Neverland and Zagreus, which are apparently controversial, but I don't know why (thankfully, it's easier to catch up on Big Finish spoiler-free than it is the TV show).

Problem is, now I really want to see an Eighth Doctor spin-off TV series.

Assuming this is the same Kill Bill project, and based on what ibs has said in other threads, I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's 23.976 with "hard" pulldown, whereas the other source was 23.976 with repeat field flags (explaining why he was able to get it to 23.976 so easily).

Be sure you don't just change the framerate from 29.97 to 23.976.  That will screw up the speed of the film.  The length should be almost exactly the same before you remove the pulldown (the 29.97 file) and after you remove the pulldown (the 23.976 file).

As I've mentioned a possible fan edit in this thread, and have now begun work on it, I'd like to direct anyone that's interested in that to this thread:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Doctor-Who-The-Enemy-Within-The-TV-Movie-Recut-OPENING-CREDITS-PREVIEW-AVAILABLE/topic/12679/

This thread will remain open for discussion of the NTSC restoration project.  The other thread is strictly for the fan edit.

You need to get RID of the pulldown that has been applied to the one that runs at 29.97 fps.

Film is shot at 24 frames per second.  NTSC video (US standard definition - in other words, this is what's on DVDs) is 59.94 fields per second, or 29.97 frames per second.

In order to get 24fps film to match 29.97fps video, it's first slowed down ever so slightly to 23.976 frames per second.  This is pretty much an imperceptible difference that no one ever notices, though some Blu-Ray players are now capable of displaying true 24fps content.  Anyway, that part is usually not an issue at all, as when 24fps material is digitized, it's almost always digitized at 23.976 from the get-go.

To get from 23.976 to 29.97, you undergo a process called "3:2 pulldown" (or 2:3 pulldown, but my film school profs have always used the two terms interchangeably).  Basically, this takes each full frame, splits them into individual fields, and distributes each field across the frames of video.

Basically, in order to edit with the 29.97 material, you need to undo this process so you have 23.976 full frames per second to work with.

--COMPLICATED TECHNICAL STUFF BELOW; SORRY IF THIS IS TOO COMPLICATED, IT'S HARD TO EXPLAIN IN TEXT FORM---

This is an issue in editing because to apply 2:3 pulldown, this is what happens:

FILM FRAMES:  A    B    C    D

Each of these four frames will be split into two fields - that means that every other line of information is on a different field (so line 1 is on field 1, line 2 is on field 2, line 3 is on field 1, line 4 is on field 2, and so on - this is interlaced, whereas all lines containing all the picture information of a frame is progressive).  So now you have eight fields from four frames - A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, C2, D1.

To get this into a format that can be played at interlaced 29.97fps, the fields are blended together.  This is where the process (2:3) gets its name, as this is what you end up with:

VIDEO FRAMES:   A1/A2     B1/B2    B1/C1    C2/D1    D2/D1

So that turns 4 frames into 5 frames.  Video frame 1 is two fields of film frame A; video frame 2 is two fields of film frame B; video frame 3 is one field of film frame B and one field of film frame C; VF 4 is one field of FF C and one of FF D; and VF 5 is two fields of FF D.

(Note that video frame 5 might actually be D1/D2, I don't remember.  Likewise, video frame 3 might be B2/C1.)

As you can see, this shows as a cadence of 2 fields, then 3 fields, then 2 fields, then 3 fields ... 2:3:2:3.

The reason this has to be reversed is film frame C.  It's split across two video frames, and needs to be recovered.  If you cut after video frames 3 or 4, what's the end of your shot?  Frame B?  Frame C?  Frame D?  These frames need to be recovered from the 2:3 pulldown cadence so you can work with them and not worry about splitting fields when you edit.

There are many different ways to do this, but since I've never used Vegas, I don't know how to help you out in this situation.  I'm sure someone else will.  I just thought you'd like to know why the framerates are different, and which one is the one you should go with.

EDIT: This project is currently dead. One day I may pick it up again, but all work would have to be redone from scratch, so I wouldn’t hold your breath. Sorry to anyone who was looking forward to this.

Well, the title describes this pretty well.  Using my (still not 100% completed) NTSC conversion as a base, I’m going to recut the 1996 Doctor Who TV movie to be more of a bridge from the classic to current series and less of a weird … thing of its own.

List of changes that I can remember, so far:

• New opening credits and title (The Enemy Within)
• “New” theme music taken from the Big Finish Eighth Doctor audio dramas
• Split into two ~30 minute parts
• Part One opens with Lee running from the gangsters/finding the TARDIS
• Various trims to this sequence (for instance, we don’t see the bullets hit the Doctor’s shoulder - though it might actually look a little more brutal the way I’ve cut it, so I might go back and change it)
• Trims to the ambulance sequence (“I’m not signing anything, buddy!” is gone)
• No cutting back-and-forth between the Doctor getting wheeled into the hospital and the snake-Master in the ambulance - we see the Doctor get wheeled in and X-rayed, then we see the Master slide up into Bruce’s jacket, then we go back to the Doctor being worked on by the nurse/doctor
• The surgery scene has several trims - the Doctor never sits up, and all he says before he’s knocked out by the gas is “I’m not one of you, I’m not human” (or something like that) - no “Timing malfunction - the Master!” and no sitting up and screaming right before he dies
• Trims to Bruce’s possession to make it less gruesome; we also don’t see him choke his wife

Part One ends with the Master arriving at Grace’s house to pick up the Doctor - the ending leads you to believe that the Doctor recognizes the Master.  Part Two reveals that he doesn’t recognize him.

As a teaser, here’s the opening credits as I have them now.  Note that I chose Futura due to its use in both the classic series and the current series from 2005-2009 (don’t know what they use now, though it could just be an enlongated version of Futura).

I’ve also used the Big Finish Productions’ Eighth Doctor theme, taken from Storm Warning and Invaders from Mars (much cleaner break for the ending) in particular, instead of the theme used in the film.  This helps to tie the TV movie to the audio dramas, as well, which I think is a good thing.

I’m open to suggestions, of course!

Without further ado, the first glimpse at this edit - the new opening credits sequence for Doctor Who: The Enemy Within:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMgTd1yPYYs

CP3S said:

ChainsawAsh said:

Been playing a lot of Fallout: New Vegas in my spare time.  Love the game, it's incredibly addicting, and improves on Fallout 3 in all the key ways (honestly, to me, it's more of a true Fallout 3 than the "real" one was).

But goddamn, does Bethesda need to work on releasing games that aren't glitchy as all hell.  Damn game freezes on me all the time - I get very nervous every time I'm traveling a wide, empty stretch of wasteland - it's frozen right when I got to where I was going before, necessitating a system restart ... and meaning I needed to start back from where I'd originally left and do the whole long walk all over again.  Ugh.

You're playing the PS3 version, right? The 360 version is even worse! I had to shelf the game and wait for a patch to be released over a month later before I was even able to beat it because of that dumb corrupt save file error the 360 versions suffered from.

Load times were so slow (hopefully the PS3 version was faster) that it really hindered my desire to want to explore. In Fallout 3 I wanted to go over every crook and cranny with a fine toothed comb and pretty much did, in New Vegas I'd see a shack nearby and walk right on past, even skipped over whole settlements, just because I knew I'd have to wait over a minute at the loading screen every time I walked through a door, and that was only if I were lucky enough for it not to freeze on me.

As excited as I was for New Vegas and for as much as I could have really loved it, I was ever so happy to beat the game and shelf it for good. Really left a bad taste in my mouth. If I ever get in the mood for some more Fallout in the future, Fallout 3, not New Vegas, is the game that is going in my console.

I am sure I am not being fair to the game's content, but I honestly didn't get to see all that much of it. When I feel like I am spending more time waiting at the load screens, getting up to restart my Xbox from a freeze, and waiting for everything to reload than time actually playing the game, it is really hard to feel motivated to play it.

 

I feel you, man, though it sounds like the 360 version is indeed worse than the PS3 version.  Loading times on the PS3 aren't too bad, and it never freezes while loading - just at inopportune times during gameplay.

I hope you'll give it another chance down the line, because it's definitely much better than Fallout 3.

RedFive said:

Also I don't know if you've seen any of the comics he's done, but they help link the show to the movie better (for example, it shows the fate of the "hands of blue" guys).

There's also a more recent comic out - Serenity: The Shepherd's Tale - that explains Shepherd Book's history with the Alliance.  It's very good, but it's too bad that we never got to see it on the screen.

Apparently there's another one about Wash's pre-Serenity days, as well, but I haven't read that one yet.

Ziggy Stardust said:

Me and my dad just finished watching Full Metal Jacket.

Since he was in Vietnam way back then, he was pretty critical of the film's not being very realistic to what actually happened.

I think that Kubrick wasn't trying to make it a war film.

It was a character study.

Still, he thought it was okay.

Pop's rating:

6/10

My rating:

10/10 (one of my new favorites)

My 1960's History professor, who was in Vietnam, insisted that every Vietnam movie except for We Were Soldiers is complete shit that doesn't capture what it was really like.

He particularly hated Platoon, and hated that people generally think it's realistic because they've been told it is, while he claimed that it was one of the most unrealistic Vietnam movies he'd ever seen.

Ziggy Stardust said:

What system is it on?

PS3, but it was equally glitchy when I played it on PC.  Haven't tried it (or Fallout 3, for that matter) on a 360, though.

xytan4 said:

So I've looked at the list of changes made to the movie, and I love them all, except for one: The needle on the interrogator droid now has an electric arc going across it.

I always thought it was a hypodermic needle for injecting interrogation drugs.

This is the #1 thing I'd like to see changed for the 720p version.

Specifically, if the erasing of the marks on the syringe was kept, but the mini-lightsaber thing was scrapped.

Been playing a lot of Fallout: New Vegas in my spare time.  Love the game, it's incredibly addicting, and improves on Fallout 3 in all the key ways (honestly, to me, it's more of a true Fallout 3 than the "real" one was).

But goddamn, does Bethesda need to work on releasing games that aren't glitchy as all hell.  Damn game freezes on me all the time - I get very nervous every time I'm traveling a wide, empty stretch of wasteland - it's frozen right when I got to where I was going before, necessitating a system restart ... and meaning I needed to start back from where I'd originally left and do the whole long walk all over again.  Ugh.

Here's all I'll say on this subject:

I dislike some of the 1997 changes, and most of the additional 2004 changes.  But I don't think Lucas was wrong to make said changes - it's his film, therefore it's his prerogative.  I only take issue with the use of the SE's as a replacement for the originals.

I also dislike some of the things Adywan has done (in ANH:R, at least).  But I like a lot of what he's done, as well.  And I don't have an issue with the fact that he's "pulling a Lucas" in changing the originals ... because he's not making these as a replacement for the originals.  They're meant as an alternate version, a companion piece if you will, like the SE's should have been.

Not only that, but Ady has also worked on some fantastic projects that do more to preserve the originals than Lucas has ever done - his '97 Empire AVCHD, his '80 theatrical Empire DVD, his '99 theatrical TPM DVD, his announcement that he'll be doing a '77 SW restoration as well, and so on.

So I don't think it's fair to compare Adywan's work to what George did with the SE's - they're two entirely different beasts.

1.66:1 is a weird beast.  You can either do it letterboxed, and have black bars all the way around on a 16:9 TV but look right on a 4:3, or you can pillarbox the sides and fit it in a 1.78:1 frame for 16:9 TVs, meaning that on a 4:3 with no overscan, there will be black bars all the way around.

There's not really a good way to do it.  Take a look at the Ultimate Editions of the early Bond films (like, the first 3) to see how they handled 1.66:1 in a 1.78:1 frame.

Lord Grievous said:

Ady, do you have any idea how big the 720p MKV file would be? I'm hoping for at least 4GB :)

4GB doesn't sound very high-bitrate to me.  I'd guess that the MKV will be at least the size of the DVD-9, if not larger (so, >7 GB).

I 100% agree with both of those, MTH.

@Ziz - yeah, that is the idea, but it's a moot point when you're talking about standard-def DVD releases, which need to conform either to NTSC or PAL standards.