logo Sign In

CatBus

User Group
Members
Join date
18-Aug-2011
Last activity
16-Jul-2025
Posts
5,971

Post History

Post
#1097804
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

CatBus said:

This is interesting.

When you’re marching around in public as part of a hate group, people can widely distribute photos of you and ID you via crowdsourcing. First off, a caution–be damned sure about someone’s identity before you tag them with something like this, and secondly, if you actually can positively identify any of these white supremacists, please do. They wanted to tell the whole world what they thought, so it seems proper that the parts of the world closest to them shouldn’t be left out of knowing what they think.

I don’t know what’s more precious–that Cole White lost his job at Top Dog, LLC (ohh, so sorry, it turns out “assclown” is not a legally protected class!), or that Peter Cvjetanovic is now making the media rounds saying “that’s not me in those super-clear photos!” (when it definitely is – it reminds me of when Richard Spencer recently denied he was Richard Spencer because he was too delicate of a snowflake to cope with being disliked in public). It’s like there’s consequences or something. I wonder if he’s also going to deny that’s him in those (not rally-related) photos with US Senator Dean Heller, or vice-versa.

More consequences (preferably law-enforcement-style consequences, but I’m not picky) are needed to make sure this shit gets shut down right now. Or at least make the Klansmen have to wear their goofy hoods again.

It was all Schadenfreude until this. Bravo to Pearce Tefft for your courage in publicly disowning your son – may your family heal soon.

But please keep identifying these dangerous people.

Meanwhile, the leader of the free world has denounced white supremacists.

Post
#1097797
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Re: the lunchroom scenario – it was more than just the division, though, it was the hierarchy. Due to the layout of the room, generally desirable seats were at one end (sunlight, view), and the gradation from the desirable to undesirable seating followed a racial pattern. Racial division wouldn’t matter as much if “separate but equal” was nonfiction.

Post
#1097718
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

CatBus said:

And don’t even get started with the lunchroom. That was discouraging.

Do tell.

It was terrible. You know how I know about 30% of my school was comprised of minorities when only about four of them were ever in any of my classes? Because an aerial view of the lunchroom would easily have shown that a 30% contiguous chunk of it was occupied by minorites, while another 70% contiguous chunk was entirely white kids. Pretty much zero mixing except at the sparsely-occupied border tables (read: poor white kids like my friends, who, I’ll be honest, were frequently racist as shit, but they didn’t have the money to sit elsewhere). The side of the lunchroom with the outdoor view? White (and rich). Now this was probably exaggerated by “you sit by your classroom friends and the classrooms are segregated, so of course the lunchroom is segregated” but shit. Every single day it’s right there in the open for everyone to see, and every single day it’s normal. Late eighties, Ohio.

Still beats the other district I attended which had the only black family move in while my sister was in high school. They got a cross burned in their yard, and didn’t stay.

Not a fan of the racial climate in the Buckeye State. I was surprised when Trump won overall, but not one bit surprised he took Ohio.

Post
#1097675
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Warbler said:

I pretty sure that housing segregation is not allowed under the civil rights act. People have the right to live where they want regardless of skin color, assuming they can afford to live in said place.

And yet there it is, no longer de jure but still very much de facto. Admittedly many of these homeowners bought their homes back when redlining was legal, or inherited it from their parents who bought it under segregated circumstances. Hell, I’ve got a covenant on my property from 1954 that I believe literally says no “negroes or yellow races” can live on the property, except as servants. Sure it’s unenforceable now, but it was normal then. But I’d like to get it removed in case the legal landscape changes and it’s enforceable again (it’s hard to remove because the covenant was applied to a vast swath of land, not just my property).

again school segregation is unconstitutional.

If 100% of the people living in your district are of a certain race, their schools inherit their racial segregation from the housing segregation, now that busing is pretty much over. De jure or de facto, amounts to the same thing.

And that’s not even considering places like where I went to school, where the school was integrated, but the individual classrooms were not.

? Please explain. Also how is this not sued out of existence?

About 30% of my school was racial minorities. But there were “tracks”: remedial, general, college prep, International Baccalaureate. It wasn’t segregated directly by race, but you could walk into an I.B. classroom and be blinded by the whiteness. Segregation by racial proxies (teacher recommendations were a big factor, and that could easily have a strong bias), failing to address other racial inequities, gets you the same results. A minority could get into the higher tracks, and they occasionally did, but they often outclassed the whole school, when simply being pretty bright was enough for the rest.

And don’t even get started with the lunchroom. That was discouraging.

Post
#1097637
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

This is interesting.

When you’re marching around in public as part of a hate group, people can widely distribute photos of you and ID you via crowdsourcing. First off, a caution–be damned sure about someone’s identity before you tag them with something like this, and secondly, if you actually can positively identify any of these white supremacists, please do. They wanted to tell the whole world what they thought, so it seems proper that the parts of the world closest to them shouldn’t be left out of knowing what they think.

I don’t know what’s more precious–that Cole White lost his job at Top Dog, LLC (ohh, so sorry, it turns out “assclown” is not a legally protected class!), or that Peter Cvjetanovic is now making the media rounds saying “that’s not me in those super-clear photos!” (when it definitely is – it reminds me of when Richard Spencer recently denied he was Richard Spencer because he was too delicate of a snowflake to cope with being disliked in public). It’s like there’s consequences or something. I wonder if he’s also going to deny that’s him in those (not rally-related) photos with US Senator Dean Heller, or vice-versa.

More consequences (preferably law-enforcement-style consequences, but I’m not picky) are needed to make sure this shit gets shut down right now. Or at least make the Klansmen have to wear their goofy hoods again.

Post
#1097603
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Warbler said:

public school segregation is unconstitutional. As for white kids going to private schools, I am not sure what can be done about that. This is America, if you have enough money amd want to send your kids to private school, you can.

Sure, but you can make sure public schools have the resources to provide an adequate education. The trick is that wherever most of the white kids go to private schools, the (disproportionately minority) public school system can, and does, go to hell from lack of funding.

Also, my experience is that school segregation happens everywhere as a function of housing segregation, which is also a serious issue. But in some places, the school segregation is out of proportion with the housing segregation, which is what I was talking about. And that’s not even considering places like where I went to school, where the school was integrated, but the individual classrooms were not.

Post
#1097581
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Warbler said:

CatBus said:

Warbler said:

CatBus said:

Warbler said:

DominicCobb said:

I assume the meaning is that even Michelle Obama, descendant of slaves, was benefiting from racism insofar as the house she was living in was built by slaves.

Maybe, but what you want to do? Knock down a perfectly usable White House and waste money building a new one, just so we can say the President no longer lives in a house built by slaves? The White House was built by slaves. It was wrong, it was racist, it was a crime. But it is too late to reverse it. The While House is already built. Nothing can undo the fact that it was built by slaves. The slaves that built it are long dead, there is no way to help them, there is nothing to do that will do any of them any good. Make sure it is remembered how the White House was built, build a monument to the slave that built there. Put up a plaque to remember it. But it is done and can’t be undone unless someone invents a time machine.

The literal level isn’t where the useful discussion is. It’s not about a physical structure per se, it’s about a nation. It’s not about living in a house per se, it’s about benefiting from past injustice. So – to refrain from the original post, what is she (and what are we) going to do about that?

I don’t know that anything can be done. Unless you have a time machine, you can’t change the past(even if you did have one, there are a whole slew of problems with trying to alter history).

You’re still looking at it very literally. The slavery happened and can’t be undone. The lynching and redlining happened and can’t be undone. But the current injustices that are derived from these things? Those can be undone. The trouble is that the current injustices are much more subtle, institutional things, and perpetuated by largely well-meaning people with no racial animus. Nevertheless that’s our responsibility, to wipe out the legacy of slavery, since the slavery itself was already wiped out by previous generations.

What do you mean by “current injustices that are derived from these things?” How do you wipe out the legacy of slavery?

Dang, stealth edit fail. Your questions about job interviews are a great example about how people can do this. Public school funding equality issues are another (many southern schools are still segregated, for the most part – the white kids just switched to private schools). Sentencing/prison reform. Anywhere you look really, there’s something to be done. The legacy of slavery is everywhere. In other words, embrace the dark side and become a SJW 😉

Post
#1097579
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Warbler said:

CatBus said:

Warbler said:

DominicCobb said:

I assume the meaning is that even Michelle Obama, descendant of slaves, was benefiting from racism insofar as the house she was living in was built by slaves.

Maybe, but what you want to do? Knock down a perfectly usable White House and waste money building a new one, just so we can say the President no longer lives in a house built by slaves? The White House was built by slaves. It was wrong, it was racist, it was a crime. But it is too late to reverse it. The While House is already built. Nothing can undo the fact that it was built by slaves. The slaves that built it are long dead, there is no way to help them, there is nothing to do that will do any of them any good. Make sure it is remembered how the White House was built, build a monument to the slave that built there. Put up a plaque to remember it. But it is done and can’t be undone unless someone invents a time machine.

The literal level isn’t where the useful discussion is. It’s not about a physical structure per se, it’s about a nation. It’s not about living in a house per se, it’s about benefiting from past injustice. So – to refrain from the original post, what is she (and what are we) going to do about that?

I don’t know that anything can be done. Unless you have a time machine, you can’t change the past(even if you did have one, there are a whole slew of problems with trying to alter history).

You’re still looking at it very literally. The slavery happened and can’t be undone. The lynching and redlining happened and can’t be undone. But the current injustices that are derived from these things? Those can be undone. The trouble is that the current injustices are much more subtle, institutional things, and perpetuated by largely well-meaning people with no overt racial animus. Nevertheless that’s our responsibility, to wipe out the legacy of slavery, since the slavery itself was already wiped out by previous generations.

EDIT: Your questions about job interviews are actually a great example of how we do this today.

Post
#1097576
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Warbler said:

DominicCobb said:

I assume the meaning is that even Michelle Obama, descendant of slaves, was benefiting from racism insofar as the house she was living in was built by slaves.

Maybe, but what you want to do? Knock down a perfectly usable White House and waste money building a new one, just so we can say the President no longer lives in a house built by slaves? The White House was built by slaves. It was wrong, it was racist, it was a crime. But it is too late to reverse it. The While House is already built. Nothing can undo the fact that it was built by slaves. The slaves that built it are long dead, there is no way to help them, there is nothing to do that will do any of them any good. Make sure it is remembered how the White House was built, build a monument to the slave that built there. Put up a plaque to remember it. But it is done and can’t be undone unless someone invents a time machine.

The literal level isn’t where the useful discussion is. It’s not about a physical structure per se, it’s about a nation. It’s not about living in a house per se, it’s about benefiting from past injustice. So – to refrain from the original post, what is she (and what are we) going to do about that?

Post
#1097493
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

yhwx said:

CatBus said:

Warbler said:

So I shouldn’t be concerned at all that if I hire this person, she is going to need a leave of absence soon?

You should show the same amount of concern as you do with your other candidates may need to do this. Husbands with eight-month-pregnant wives, lesbian moms with eight-month-pregnant wives. Dive right on in to those deeply personal questions. Er, maybe no.

This isn’t really a helpful answer. I applaud Warbler’s effort to learn on this topic, but this answer doesn’t really help to give him a better understanding of the situation. What should Warbler do? Ideally, the answer should be more specific than “Er, maybe no.”

The post is also weird on a writing-organizational level. Going straight from “Dive right on in to those deeply personal questions,” to “Er, maybe no.” is unclear and hard to understand. Those two are not great sentences.

Just as a (late) follow-up, I was getting too wrapped up in the larger conversation, trying to get people to think about exactly why they’re asking what they’re asking, instead of just simply answering it. Not my finest, no.

This is more useful info: http://employment.findlaw.com/hiring-process/illegal-interview-questions-and-female-applicants.html

Post
#1097490
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Although this is being reported semi-decently, there was a non-lethal white supremacist attack at another location in Charlottesville today, not just at the big rally. IMO this really is a matter of testing to see exactly how much they can get away with. Unless the perps are all found, tried, and convicted in short order, I expect they’ll see this weekend as a green light for more of the same, nationally.

Post
#1097470
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Jeebus said:

yhwx said:

This is insanity.

http://www.dailyprogress.com/gallery/graphic-pedestrians-struck-by-car-after-unite-the-right-rally/collection_9ad95178-7f81-11e7-ba2b-5f75148f6c79.html

So, the big question is; was this terrorism? A hate crime? Just standard vehicular homicide?

Likely fits the standard definition of terrorism (violence targeting civilians to advance a political cause), but there’s that Dylann Roof pigmentation problem, so I’m saying the charge will be murder, a bump up from vehicular homicide.

Post
#1097467
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

DominicCobb said:

I assume the meaning is that even Michelle Obama, descendant of slaves, was benefiting from racism insofar as the house she was living in was built by slaves.

Ding. House as a metaphor for nation and all that, as well. i.e. we all grew up in a house built by slaves, and we’re raising our children in it too, get it? We’re not responsible for the slavery and racism, and we don’t approve of it, but we nevertheless benefit unequally from the fruits of it. That’s the deal with institutional racism. You don’t need any intentional, conscious racism at all to keep it going indefinitely.

Post
#1097401
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Warbler said:

CatBus said:

Warbler said:

CatBus said:

Warbler said:

You mean put together a team that is half black, half white, half male, half female?

No, identity doesn’t predict bias.

It doesn’t would think it would be less likely that a black man would be biased against black people than a white man.

You’d think so. But there are plenty of cases where women can be the harshest judges of women, and so on. Throw identity politics out on the garbage heap where it belongs.

maybe but what about this:

It is wrong to think it more likely that the people in the background are biased toward black people than the cop?

Honestly depends on how many are undercover agents and informants. I always hope there’s a lot.

Post
#1097400
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Warbler said:

CatBus said:

darthrush said:

CatBus said:

CatBus said:

I think I’ve said this before but I think it bears repeating: the word racism means different things to different people. When discussing this topic, it’s pretty normal for some white people to recoil the second the word starts to touch them personally. Because racism, to them, is overt acts, conscious choices, hateful feelings, much more personal. But to others, racism is woven into the fabric of America, much more institutional. If you were born and raised here, you’ve already got some on you. The only question is: what are you going to do about it?

When Michelle Obama said she raised her daughters in a house built by slaves, that was a much more poignant way of saying she got some on her. The more important question is what is she doing about it?

This post probably much more tactfully says the same thing I just said, but in a way people seem to have appreciated at the time, if not now.

I think we may have a big misunderstanding about what we each thought of racism and I apoglozie. I subscribe to the definition that racism is when you discriminate against someone and think they are less of a person than you in any way because of their skin color. And when I heard you say that “All of Americans should check their racism”, I associated it instantly with what I think of racism and an accusation like that can rile me up really fast and I apologize for not taking the time to understand your persceptive.

Thank you, and I’ll apologize to you, Warb, and the thread for whipping out the “R” word without enough of the context that I indicated myself I think is very necessary for civil discussions. Lesson learned.

Its alright, I wasn’t nearly as angry as others were in this thread. I was just trying to ask questions and learn.

Hey, we all learned something today: Arguing on the Internet – it worked!

I think that’s actually happened twice now. Third time is a sign of the apocalypse.

Post
#1097377
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

darthrush said:

CatBus said:

CatBus said:

I think I’ve said this before but I think it bears repeating: the word racism means different things to different people. When discussing this topic, it’s pretty normal for some white people to recoil the second the word starts to touch them personally. Because racism, to them, is overt acts, conscious choices, hateful feelings, much more personal. But to others, racism is woven into the fabric of America, much more institutional. If you were born and raised here, you’ve already got some on you. The only question is: what are you going to do about it?

When Michelle Obama said she raised her daughters in a house built by slaves, that was a much more poignant way of saying she got some on her. The more important question is what is she doing about it?

This post probably much more tactfully says the same thing I just said, but in a way people seem to have appreciated at the time, if not now.

I think we may have a big misunderstanding about what we each thought of racism and I apoglozie. I subscribe to the definition that racism is when you discriminate against someone and think they are less of a person than you in any way because of their skin color. And when I heard you say that “All of Americans should check their racism”, I associated it instantly with what I think of racism and an accusation like that can rile me up really fast and I apologize for not taking the time to understand your persceptive.

Thank you, and I’ll apologize to you, Warb, and the thread for whipping out the “R” word without enough of the context that I indicated myself I think is very necessary for civil discussions. Lesson learned.

Post
#1097373
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

darthrush said:

CatBus said:

darthrush said:

CatBus said:

darthrush said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

darthrush said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

Meaning you’ve got biases that have been installed into you by decades of exposure to racist media, housing policies, schools, family, friends, etc. It’s a nice way of saying you’re racist, but using the broad definition that includes pretty much all Americans, and doesn’t mean you’re actively trying to perpetuate these things.

*sigh* 😐

Relevant.

For Christ’s sake.

Warbler has shown nothing that would make you think he is racist and to assume that someone is racist without any evidence is just awful. Half of this race talk is just virtue signaling from the left and does nothing to help solve issues in America.

Umm, I think the link was intended to criticize CatBus for calling Warbler racist. The video points out that we are all capable of occasionally doing a racist act, but that doesn’t necessarily mean we are a racist person.

Thanks for the clear up. Catbus, my last message was directed at you and every other self righteous asshole from the left.

I called pretty much all Americans racists in the sense that they are all tainted by growing up with racism, and should that into consideration when making decisions, and I included myself (and women, and minorities) in that. Self-righteous refers to someone who thinks they’re better than other people, not someone who thinks they’re equally culpable. Nevertheless, through this discussion, we have successfully identified a self-righteous asshole.

Never said I was better than you Mr. All Americans are Racist.

Ah, so when you said I was a self-righteous asshole, you meant we are ALL self-righteous assholes, and you are just as bad of one as me. You were being just as humble and circumspect as I was in my observations on race in America – it just wasn’t apparent at first. Thanks for the clarification yourself. I can kinda get behind that sentiment.

Either that or you’re not backpedaling fast enough, Mr. Self-Righteous.

Sorry that I think it’s self righteous to call all Americans racist and then say that “im just trying to fix the problem” by admitting your “racism” and that there are so many other people who aren’t humble enough to admit it themselves.

Ahh, so that’s it. Introspection is the exclusive domain of leftist blowhards, is it? I’ll just call it a day then.

Post
#1097370
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

CatBus said:

I think I’ve said this before but I think it bears repeating: the word racism means different things to different people. When discussing this topic, it’s pretty normal for some white people to recoil the second the word starts to touch them personally. Because racism, to them, is overt acts, conscious choices, hateful feelings, much more personal. But to others, racism is woven into the fabric of America, much more institutional. If you were born and raised here, you’ve already got some on you. The only question is: what are you going to do about it?

When Michelle Obama said she raised her daughters in a house built by slaves, that was a much more poignant way of saying she got some on her. The more important question is what is she doing about it?

This post probably much more tactfully says the same thing I just said, but in a way people seem to have appreciated at the time, if not now.

Post
#1097358
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

darthrush said:

CatBus said:

darthrush said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

darthrush said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

Meaning you’ve got biases that have been installed into you by decades of exposure to racist media, housing policies, schools, family, friends, etc. It’s a nice way of saying you’re racist, but using the broad definition that includes pretty much all Americans, and doesn’t mean you’re actively trying to perpetuate these things.

*sigh* 😐

Relevant.

For Christ’s sake.

Warbler has shown nothing that would make you think he is racist and to assume that someone is racist without any evidence is just awful. Half of this race talk is just virtue signaling from the left and does nothing to help solve issues in America.

Umm, I think the link was intended to criticize CatBus for calling Warbler racist. The video points out that we are all capable of occasionally doing a racist act, but that doesn’t necessarily mean we are a racist person.

Thanks for the clear up. Catbus, my last message was directed at you and every other self righteous asshole from the left.

I called pretty much all Americans racists in the sense that they are all tainted by growing up with racism, and should that into consideration when making decisions, and I included myself (and women, and minorities) in that. Self-righteous refers to someone who thinks they’re better than other people, not someone who thinks they’re equally culpable. Nevertheless, through this discussion, we have successfully identified a self-righteous asshole.

Never said I was better than you Mr. All Americans are Racist.

Ah, so when you said I was a self-righteous asshole, you meant we are ALL self-righteous assholes, and you are just as bad of one as me. You were being just as humble and circumspect as I was in my observations on race in America – it just wasn’t apparent at first. Thanks for the clarification yourself. I can kinda get behind that sentiment.

Either that or you’re not backpedaling fast enough, Mr. Self-Righteous.

Post
#1097333
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Warbler said:

CatBus said:

Warbler said:

You mean put together a team that is half black, half white, half male, half female?

No, identity doesn’t predict bias.

It doesn’t would think it would be less likely that a black man would be biased against black people than a white man.

You’d think so. But there are plenty of cases where women can be the harshest judges of women, and so on. Throw identity politics out on the garbage heap where it belongs.

Post
#1097330
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

darthrush said:

Puggo - Jar Jar’s Yoda said:

darthrush said:

yhwx said:

Warbler said:

Meaning you’ve got biases that have been installed into you by decades of exposure to racist media, housing policies, schools, family, friends, etc. It’s a nice way of saying you’re racist, but using the broad definition that includes pretty much all Americans, and doesn’t mean you’re actively trying to perpetuate these things.

*sigh* 😐

Relevant.

For Christ’s sake.

Warbler has shown nothing that would make you think he is racist and to assume that someone is racist without any evidence is just awful. Half of this race talk is just virtue signaling from the left and does nothing to help solve issues in America.

Umm, I think the link was intended to criticize CatBus for calling Warbler racist. The video points out that we are all capable of occasionally doing a racist act, but that doesn’t necessarily mean we are a racist person.

Thanks for the clear up. Catbus, my last message was directed at you and every other self righteous asshole from the left.

I called pretty much all Americans racists in the sense that they are all tainted by growing up with racism, and should that into consideration when making decisions, and I included myself (and women, and minorities) in that. Self-righteous refers to someone who thinks they’re better than other people, not someone who thinks they’re equally culpable. Nevertheless, through this discussion, we have successfully identified a self-righteous asshole.

Post
#1097297
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Warbler said:

You mean put together a team that is half black, half white, half male, half female?

No, identity doesn’t predict bias. If you’ve got an acknowledged anti-Latino bias, include someone who definitely doesn’t, Latino or not. If the team ends up being all white men, that’s a pretty good warning sign you didn’t do a very good job, but it’s technically possible.

What do you mean by touched by racism?

Meaning you’ve got biases that have been installed into you by decades of exposure to racist media, housing policies, schools, family, friends, etc. It’s a nice way of saying you’re racist, but using the broad definition that includes pretty much all Americans, and doesn’t mean you’re actively trying to perpetuate these things.

Post
#1097293
Topic
Politics 2: Electric Boogaloo
Time

Warbler said:

So I shouldn’t be concerned at all that if I hire this person, she is going to need a leave of absence soon?

You should show the same amount of concern as you do with your other candidates may need to do this. Husbands with eight-month-pregnant wives, lesbian moms with eight-month-pregnant wives. Dive right on in to those deeply personal questions. Er, maybe no.