CatBus

moviefreakedmind said:

Again?

Agreed, should be “Make America Gorram Assholes”, no again.

Well, the SRT files don’t shift positions, and the English subtitles don’t shift positions either, so Im not sure that would help. I do my testing with German SUP files.

If you’re running an architecture that supports Wine, I believe you can run TSMuxerGUI in Wine to create an M2TS file that can then be played by VLC. I think there might even be a Linux native version of tsmuxer, but I’m not sure if there’s a GUI.

I am watching for just “flow” issues overall (just watch the movie and see how it feels), and both of the cases where I’m considering reverting back down are very borderline – I could see a reasonable argument either way. It probably wouldn’t take much to convince me to leave them at the top. The difference is that all of the others are clearly better on top, so no argument needs to be made.

TV’s Frink said:

core tenants that sustain our Republic

That’s the problem with putting a real estate developer in charge, right there.

And here is why more white evangelicals aren’t coming out against the Nazis.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/09/05/robert-e-lee-descendant-and-denouncer-quits-n-c-pastor-post-over-hurtful-reaction-to-vma-speech/?utm_term=.c3df7f629de8

IMO if you lose your congregation over something like this, your congregation was beyond salvation anyway. Godspeed, Mr. Lee.

Rondan said:

I agree with you about getting the subs out of the way so that you do not miss important details. But keep it consistent. If you put the subs up keep it up during the dialog. It is very annoying to go up down up down down up down up during a dialog. That is just my five cents.😄

Since you actually expressed exactly the thing I’m trying to avoid, what’s your opinion on my current plan? Basically, no changes to dialogue in Star Wars, but moving some subtitles back down in Jedi.

“Jabba, I’ll pay you triple. You’re throwing away a fortune, here!/Don’t be a fool!” – moved down because although it’s close to a Jabba line at the beginning, there’s a 2.5 second gap before Jabba’s next line. Also, the subtitles are over another shot which allows some mental separation from the surrounding ones.

“You will bring Captain Solo and the Wookiee to me.” – similarly, it’s kind of close-ish on the leading side, there’s a 6 second gap before Jabba’s next line, and it’s another shot.

I can provide demo files in the language of your choice, if it’d help.

Well, I think that’s a benefit of hindsight in general, that you’d phrase things differently. Going into a discussion, you really don’t know which words or phrases are going to either set someone off or go totally unnoticed. Knowing the outcome allows you to do things like “well, what I meant was this, but it got interpreted as that, so I’d say it differently to avoid that whole thing”. Which can be helpful in time for the next discussion, and so I’m glad to hear when people do it.

Because eventually Bill Murray figured a way out of Groundhog Day, right? 😉

I should add that all the changes I’m talking about making are negotiable right until the very end, I’m just approaching an opinion of my own, which I’ll go with unless convinced otherwise.

Also, on the pre-crawl titles – the “A long time ago…” subtitle works fine at the bottom, so I plan to do that. The “STAR WARS” subtitle doesn’t really work anywhere initially, but works at the top or bottom equally well as that title recedes and doesn’t take up the full screen. Right now I’m in favor of moving that one to the bottom too, because my new rule is to only move to the top when it’s better than the bottom, and that subtitle is really equally bad anywhere in the screen.

Any status to report on the disc? Or on the lossless audio/GOUT sync from Mavimao?

On subtitle positioning, I just ran a ROTJ demo I was really satisfied with. The only shifted adjacent subs were C-3PO’s “We’re doomed” and Luke’s “I must be allowed to speak.” Everything else is back in its normal position. I’ll do a similar test for Star Wars, but I’m thinking I may not make any changes there.

Next up: italics. Most subs use italics to specify an offscreen speaker. I’ve been using italics to indicate dialog coming from radios, loudspeakers, recordings, and ghosts. Any preference on this? I’m still inclined to the latter (there’s a lot of overlap, but not 100%)

Finally: SDH cues. Our SDH subtitles are pretty bare, but don’t need to be, since we also have plain English subtitles. We could add more cues for music, etc.

SilverWook said:

Jay already cautioned against taking cheap shots against those who aren’t here to defend themselves anymore.

Ah, will do.

The Justice Department just confirmed that this photo has been manipulated.

That’s a shocker nobody saw coming. Well, everyone but Fo.

Mass media generally aims for some universally intelligible and inoffensive dialect, which becomes boring only by association. But it’s still as much a dialect as any other.

I know a guy who thought British accents disappeared when they started singing. He seemed heartbroken that it was a marketing decision for some British singers to try to sound more American for the larger marketplace, and not some sort of universality of the language of music.

The canonical pronunciation is “noo-klee-er”. But a sizeable portion of the nation (parts of the midwest, maybe others) say “noo-kyoo-ler”, which is fingernails on a chalkboard to me, but is… sigh… probably considered a legitimate regional variation by now.

EDIT: But say “srimp cocktail” and I will end you.

Oddly, in places where people say “nucyular”, they don’t say “nucyulus”. Similarly they “worsh” their clothes, but never to get out a “squorsh” stain. Language is weird. DE is correct that as a mispronunciation gains wide enough acceptance among any group, it becomes de facto correct as an alternate pronunciation.

Still though, I know a lady who says “srimp cocktail”. I will personally make sure that never makes it into the English lexicon. It is my life’s goal.

Those are fair points. Not everyone who grew up in the northeast retains a northeast accent forever, and nucyular is a midwest staple. They just seem like two very politically advantageous speech developments, but maybe that’s all it is.

Also his Texas accent is like a terrible Hollywood attempt, but maybe that’s what you get when you mash up Texas and Connecticut.

Dat_SW_Guy said:

I have just restarted the Tagalog subs for A New Hope, currently translating the first half right now.

Thank you so much – and keep an eye out for that dub!

On the subtitle positioning front, I’m trying out a “don’t shift any adjacent subs” demo on Jedi, and it mostly works, but there are two subtitles that I don’t really like being at the bottom (the rapid up/down/up effect Rondan mentioned, I don’t like it either). So I’m thinking it’s likely I’ll end up shifting fewer adjacent subs in Jedi, but not none, and I may very well keep them all as-is in Star Wars.

Yep, I’d never place subs in black bars (don’t worry). Scooting them up just a little would block the middle of the image, which is more likely to be problematic than going all the way to the top. I’m testing some things and will report some results.

yhwx said:

I find it kind of ironic how people are referring to the stereotype of the highly-educated, maybe liberals, while also using the big word “intelligentsia.”

It’s okay to use the word as long as you don’t spell it right 😉

NeverarGreat said:

CatBus said:

Warbler said:

What do you mean Republicans are saying the name of their party wrong?

“Their” in that context meaning the Democratic Party, not the Republican Party. As an exercise, go through any official Republican press release, speech by a Republican national candidate, or opinion piece by a Republican political operative, for the past ten years, and see if you can find even one saying the words “Democratic Party” when talking about their opposition. Just one reference using the actual name of a major US political party in the age of the Internet when anyone can look anything up, shouldn’t be a problem, right? Yeah, not so much. Now go back thirty years, and the same exercise is easy.

They once got it right every single time, and then suddenly they all got it wrong every single time. Staying on message is one thing the Republicans tend to do very well, even for petty name-calling. Shit, look at Freedom Fries or Death Taxes or whatnot. They even rode with Homicide Bombers for a week or so when even their own people couldn’t bear how stupid it sounded from the get-go. They practically have their own Newspeak division.

Although calling them the ‘Democrat Party’ was an insult by Republicans, it has been so ingrained in their speech patterns that they probably think theirs is the ‘proper’ way of saying it. There’s some sense to that after all. The Republicans and the Republican party are the same word, so it makes sense that the Democrats and the Democrat party would follow the same rule. It’s stupid, sure. But at least there’s some consistency in that thought.

Oh I get that after so many years, it’s ingrained and people have even been raised never knowing it by another name so it probably sounds wrong when it’s said correctly. But the point is that it was a conscious choice to do things wrong, in an attempt to goad Dems into wasting their time being pedantic and correct instead of talking about issues. You think Dubya didn’t really know how to pronounce “nuclear”? That was as rehearsed as his fake Texas accent, designed to make him seem the poor everyman, beset by the mocking self-righteous intelligentsia. And it worked.

So when you make fun of Trump, don’t do it about the P’s and Q’s. Just stick to the pee.

Warbler said:

What do you mean Republicans are saying the name of their party wrong?

“Their” in that context meaning the Democratic Party, not the Republican Party. As an exercise, go through any official Republican press release, speech by a Republican national candidate, or opinion piece by a Republican political operative, for the past ten years, and see if you can find even one saying the words “Democratic Party” when talking about their opposition. Just one reference using the actual name of a major US political party in the age of the Internet when anyone can look anything up, shouldn’t be a problem, right? Yeah, not so much. Now go back thirty years, and the same exercise is easy.

They once got it right every single time, and then suddenly they all got it wrong every single time. Staying on message is one thing the Republicans tend to do very well, even for petty name-calling. Shit, look at Freedom Fries or Death Taxes or whatnot. They even rode with Homicide Bombers for a week or so when even their own people couldn’t bear how stupid it sounded from the get-go. They practically have their own Newspeak division.

yhwx said:

http://ew.com/tv/2017/09/01/donald-trump-spelled-heal-wrong-again-in-a-tweet/

President Donald Trump was mocked on Twitter early Friday for misspelling “heal” as “heel,” the second time in two weeks Trump has made the error online.

“Texas is heeling [sic] fast thanks to all of the great men & women who have been working so hard. But still, so much to do. Will be back tomorrow!” Trump wrote at 7:50 a.m. ET on Friday, addressing Hurricane Harvey relief efforts. The tweet was later deleted.

Twitter users and media members were quick to mock the president for his mistake.

Appearing dumb to elicit an elitist response from Democrats is a pretty old Republican game. Not that Trump needs to play too hard at it, but still. Seriously, there are tons of Americans out there who get by just fine without spelling very well, and they may just be a little sensitive on that matter, and when the Democrats play “cultural partisan elite”, it hardly helps matters. That’s kinda how Bush effectively won the debate with Gore by getting demolished a little too severely. It’s verbal rope-a-dope – they expend far less effort misspeaking than their opponents do correcting them. Can you imagine what would happen if Democrats insisted Republicans get the name of their party right every single time they said it wrong? That’s exactly why Republican politicians and operatives still almost universally get it so consistently wrong after so many decades. It’s a messaging mandate from the party. The focus on style rather than substance aids their cause. The fact that they sound stupid isn’t politically relevant – it’s even a net positive.

For an example of the sort of thing I’m considering, the first scenario is just to see if the idea of shifting adjacent subs is warranted at all anymore. But the second scenario is to come up with a logical set of rules, apply them consistently to the subtitles, and see what that yields. For example:

Shift adjacent subtitles if it’s:

1. One subtitle with shifted subtitles within 1s on both sides, and <350ms gap after shifted subtitle on leading side
2. One subtitle with a shifted subtitle on leading side with <350ms gap between them
3. Two subtitles with <350ms gap between them, shifted subtitles within 1s on both sides, and <350ms gap after shifted subtitle on leading side
4. One subtitle with shifted subtitles within 1s on both sides and <350ms gap before shifted subtitle on trailing side

Using these rules, I’m completely unable to justify three of the adjacent shifted subtitles in ROTJ, and the remaining two are covered by rule #1, which seems like the rule everyone would agree on if you agree to the basic concept of shifting adjacent subtitles.

In SW, they are all still justified by one of the rules, but “I don’t have it with me. Tell Jabba–” and “Over my dead body.” are covered by rule #4, which is a pretty iffy one IMO. “Yes, Greedo. As a matter of fact, I was just going to see your boss./Tell Jabba that I’ve got his money.” are covered by rule #3, and “Yes, I’ll bet you have.” is rule #2.

flametitan said:

NeverarGreat said:

Eat that, North Korea!

Took me way too long to realize that was parody.

The Onion is easier to distinguish from reality than they used to be.

Just seeking feedback from my existing users on this–

In the current version of Project Threepio, subtitles are shifted to the top of the screen not only when there’s onscreen alien subtitles, but also for subtitles adjacent to those alien subtitles. For example, in the Han-Greedo exchange, ALL of the dialogue is shifted up even though technically only Greedo’s lines have to be shifted.

There were a few reasons for this: first, I felt that, particularly for subtitles using the Latin alphabet, it was hard on the user to alternate rapidly between high and low subtitles. Secondly, back in the early days of this project, there was no guarantee that burnt-in subs would have theatrical timing, so I needed to be able to dodge mistimed subs.

That latter part of the problem is largely solved, now that pretty much everything uses film-based burnt-in timings. The earlier part is pretty subjective. I’ve always felt that the Greedo scene worked pretty well, but that the Jabba scenes weren’t so cut-and-dry.

What does everyone else think? Should I shift Han’s lines back down? Should I leave Star Wars alone but consider doing it for Jedi? Are there other subtitles in other parts of the film that obscure some crucial detail and SHOULD be shifted up? The tractor beam text translation was a tough call–both high and low subs would block some text, so I went with low. Similarly, the SDH subs for the chattering probe droid noises – high blocks the tops of the antennae, and low blocks the droid’s head, so I went with high.

I’ve already pretty much decided to shift the pre-crawl titles back to low positions. That was just a legacy from when I shifted subtitles manually and it was just easier to keep track of things that way.

CatBus said:

But if something does happen, here’s my guess: it will be centered on Russia, and the fissure will start to blow up by the end of September (this year).

If there’s going to be an avalanche by the end of September, we should see a couple sizeable pebbles very soon. Otherwise I’d say impeachment is off the table for good.