CatBus

flametitan said:

I think I get you, though I have more experience with the overanalysis side you describe. It’ll be important for those close to those kids (particularly teachers, parents, and medical professionals), but not everyone else particularly needs to know the itty bitty details. For a lot of us, it’s more important that you stand by us even if you don’t fully understand, than to try too hard to be “validating.”

I think I’ll take that as a “Relax Dad, the kids are alright”. And I get to feel all happy that I successfully communicated something over the Internet without actually really knowing any of the right words, so bonus.

Then again, I’ve also found attempts to make the public, “understand what something is like,” tends to fall hilariously flat on its face, so I’m not really optimistic that trying to explain a deeper understanding than “she’s trans” is all that helpful.

Erm, well, I have high hopes for this thread at least 😉

Thanks.

Yes please.

Not sure how to phrase this, so I’m gonna do a word salad and hope for interpretation. It’s not so much a question as a knot I’ve been working on untying.

I’m heartened at how easily kids can accept things that seem so unfamiliar to their parents (background: I’m an old cis straight married white guy). At my son’s previous school (elementary), he had two trans kids in his class. The school’s one of those schools that really seems to put effort into accepting trans kids, so parents of trans kids move here from all over hoping for a better experience. I didn’t see much sign of stigma or rejection there, trans kids were out and outgoing, other kids corrected their parents on pronoun usage, so that all seemed good. And I was looking for problems, because I have some adult trans friends and this was Not Their Experience Growing Up At All.

And yet… I felt it was all superficial in a way. Nobody likes to talk about charged topics that may cause awkward feelings, even moreso if it comes with a set of vocabulary words. But aside from the “That’s so-and-so. She’s cool. Yeah, that’s right, she’s trans”… that was it. While I felt they accepted the person (which is lovely), I didn’t get any sense that anyone really cared to dig too deep about what trans actually meant. Puberty was right around the corner and I’m not sure anyone knew this might be a particularly big deal for their trans friends. Silence can be a serious problem.

But then again so is overanalysis. Another friend of mine who uses a wheelchair once said “I just want to take a crap for once without it having to be a political statement.” Maybe just being a trans kid with a superficial “Yeah, she’s cool.” level of understanding from her friends is perfectly adequate.

Do you know what I mean when I talk about acceptance without understanding? And do you have any words of wisdom or experience that might… not really solve the dilemma, because I think it’s always there… but maybe just show it in a different light?

SilverWook said:

And I get that it was named before Trumpy took office. Remains to be seen if people will more willingly flee a hurricane because they get a text versus all the warnings given on tv.

I compare it to the Amber Alert thing already in use, and it will likely get similarly used/complained about/ignored.

But with the added political intrigue, we can add denial/truther responses to the mix, which have been thankfully lacking from Amber Alerts.

Or at least I think so. Now that I think of it, there probably are people who think Amber Alerts are a cover story for secretly shipping kids off the the pizzeria. Ugh. Nevermind.

I mean this in the best possible way, but I feel like I just read a chapter of Trans Topics for Cis Dummies. That was a really informative, helpful post, whether you’re really part of this particular discussion or not. Thanks, flametitan!

Buster D said:

Edit: oh, and furigana can be done in AegiSub by making a new line, changing the font size, then dragging the line into place in the video preview pane.

When I looked at this problem earlier, I considered something very much like that (but using SRT and scripting because I like to keep content and style separate, similar to HTML and CSS). I was never satisfied with the appearance of the Furigana unless I was able to customize the tracking (inter-character spacing) and positioning, so that they would better align with the words they applied to, and that was really hard (not impossible, I’m sure) to automate. So when I found out I didn’t need to bother with Furigana, I happily dropped all attempts to make it happen. Similar to my short, doomed experiment with vertical Japanese subtitles.

There’s a lot of things I try out for this project that never see the light of day. But the only one I feel regret about not doing is the Malayalam subtitles. Most of the time it’s more like: I came, I saw, I decided that wasn’t a very good idea after all. But Malayalam… I’m probably going to revisit that and fail another four or five times before I give up.

But back to the original topic. I do maintain theatrical subtitles for the burnt-in Jabba and Greedo subs, but only if I know those were on the original 35mm prints and I know their font/size/placement (what’s the point of just text?). For these Japanese subtitles, I don’t know any of that.

Warbler said:

CatBus said:

Warbler said:

Mrebo said:

I’ve not slept for 3 weeks.

How can you stay away for that long?

You can’t. Tis a joke. The most any human can stay awake is about 11 days, and the effects of attempting to go this long can be life-threatening, and if it doesn’t kill you, it can cause permanent physiological damage. This is why preventing prisoners from sleeping is considered a form of torture.

I thought I saw somewhere that if you go without sleep for long enough(much shorter than 3 weeks), that you start having hallucinations.

Oh yeah, that happens too. Also organ failure.

Warbler said:

Mrebo said:

I’ve not slept for 3 weeks.

How can you stay away for that long?

You can’t. Tis a joke. The most any human can stay awake is about 11 days, and the effects of attempting to go this long can be life-threatening, and if it doesn’t kill you, it can cause permanent physiological damage. This is why preventing prisoners from sleeping is considered a form of torture.

moviefreakedmind said:

I want to bring something up from a long time ago, when Catbus…

Yep, it was me.

Well, I hope you can look at this discussion and realize that if you’re one of the people that the religion deems an abomination, then religion is far from a net positive.

You’re a real glass-is-half-enpty kinda guy, aren’t you? No, I get what you’re saying.

Let’s say Religion X unambiguously deems Group Y an abomination. That means Religion X is pretty unlikely to be a net positive, as you say. That’s a very different thing than saying religion in general is not a net positive. But don’t all religions have defined outcast groups? Depends on how you define the religion. Just using our existing example of the LGBTQ community and Christianity, which Christian church do you mean? There are plenty of Christian churches that are very accepting of the LGBTQ community, and see no conflict with their faith.

IMO these outcast groups, hateful actions, Crusades, and whatnot, have more to say about the biases of that religion’s practitioners than the biases of the religion itself. Long story short, you can lead a bigot to Jesus, but he’s still a bigot*.

Certainly you can look to the Soviet Union for some pretty unflattering examples of what happens when people with inherent biases act on them in the name of atheism.

So maybe you’d partially agree with me here: I may think religion is a net positive, but I’m far less convinced about humanity itself.

* Bumper stickers on sale now.

Pretty much what Ash said. Certainly I recognize there’s some artistic and creative value in any translation, but ultimately what we’re preserving is the films, not the translations. If one translation is clearly superior to another, then I use the superior one. If the preferred translation contains flaws, I feel no need to preserve those flaws, and will edit an official Lucasfilm-blessed translation without any regrets. Yes, there is absolutely some historical value lost–a goofy old translation with misspelled words and occasional bad translations can have some novelty and nostalgic appeal. But that’s not for this project.

There’s even the issue of the duelling roles of subtitles–is it to translate the English dialogue, or to transcribe the dubbed dialogue in another language? I always go with the former wherever the dub does not provide the most accurate translation (the translation choices for dubs can be governed by other factors such as matching lip movements, so they can sometimes be off).

Once we get to the point where it’s actually not clear one translation is better than the other, and it’s more of a matter of opinion or taste (and I’m still open to the possibility we’re already there with Japanese), then I’m more resistant to the change. There’s absolutely value in consistency between films (so if you change one translation, you should change all three to match), and in not introducing a new translation when the familiar one was just as good. Also, to be clear, the Japanese subtitles we have right now are based on the original home video dubs, but they’re already not a perfect match. Those Japanese subs contained Furigana, which I couldn’t find a way to reliably reproduce, so I asked one of our members to go through and re-translate those words as needed, or just remove the Furigana if it wasn’t needed. The newer translations don’t use Furigana at all, so they’d be more faithfully converted.

As for maintaining multiple versions, long ago I made some pretty hard-and-fast limits on what this project would support, to preserve my own sanity as well as those who try to sort through the project themselves. For example, I do not provide subtitle variations for the 1981, 1985, or 1993 variations of the films–just the theatrical versions. Multiple translations per language is another.

DuracellEnergizer said:

CatBus said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

CatBus said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

RicOlie_2 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Another example of Christian opposition to freedom:

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2018/09/anti-lgbtq-protesters-swarmed-library-protest-drag-queen-story-hour/

If you call the normalization of mental illnesses freedom, then sure. Gender dysphoria is contagious among certain segments of the population, so I have a hard time believing that it’s normal and healthy to believe you’re in the wrong body. What happened to telling people to be happy with their body and the way they are?

Though comment sections rarely offer anything edifying, I found this comment from your linked article quite agreeable:

The truth is likely somewhere in between. It is misguided to assume that ‘ALL individuals who experience gender dysphoria are born that way’, or that ‘ALL individuals who experience gender dysphoria are confused’. When you start contemplating ALL or NOTHING statements in social or psychological research, you are probably wrong.

It is important that we clarify these issues and determine how best to approach gender dysphoria in these young populations. I could not even imagine the potential regret or harm that young individuals might experience by making decisions at a young age that will impact their entire lives. I absolutely support counselling that includes exploration of social and psychological issues as part of a complete treatment plan. It’s important not to be narrow-minded.

You went into the comments section on an Internet news site and not only came out unscathed, but having found a thoughtful and cogent analysis in there.

I am now considering starting a religion worshipping you, but I’d like to know your opinion on ritual flagellation before I get too far down that road.

If it feels good, do it. Otherwise, buy my miracle spring water instead.

Any restrictions about shellfish?

Never eat any in the presence of prawn aliens.

Any prohibition on pineapple on a pizza?

If I looks like you’re eating a wedge of pineapple, there’s something amiss.

Joe versus the Volcano. Thumbs up or down?

Haven’t seen it.

Play your cards right and you get a shrine dedicated to you, made out of toothpaste, this very night.

It had better be multicoloured toothpaste.

Mine wasn’t, but my kid’s was. Your first shrine smells like bubblegum.

DuracellEnergizer said:

CatBus said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

RicOlie_2 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Another example of Christian opposition to freedom:

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2018/09/anti-lgbtq-protesters-swarmed-library-protest-drag-queen-story-hour/

If you call the normalization of mental illnesses freedom, then sure. Gender dysphoria is contagious among certain segments of the population, so I have a hard time believing that it’s normal and healthy to believe you’re in the wrong body. What happened to telling people to be happy with their body and the way they are?

Though comment sections rarely offer anything edifying, I found this comment from your linked article quite agreeable:

The truth is likely somewhere in between. It is misguided to assume that ‘ALL individuals who experience gender dysphoria are born that way’, or that ‘ALL individuals who experience gender dysphoria are confused’. When you start contemplating ALL or NOTHING statements in social or psychological research, you are probably wrong.

It is important that we clarify these issues and determine how best to approach gender dysphoria in these young populations. I could not even imagine the potential regret or harm that young individuals might experience by making decisions at a young age that will impact their entire lives. I absolutely support counselling that includes exploration of social and psychological issues as part of a complete treatment plan. It’s important not to be narrow-minded.

You went into the comments section on an Internet news site and not only came out unscathed, but having found a thoughtful and cogent analysis in there.

I am now considering starting a religion worshipping you, but I’d like to know your opinion on ritual flagellation before I get too far down that road.

If it feels good, do it. Otherwise, buy my miracle spring water instead.

Any restrictions about shellfish?

Any prohibition on pineapple on a pizza?

Joe versus the Volcano. Thumbs up or down?

Play your cards right and you get a shrine dedicated to you, made out of toothpaste, this very night.

DuracellEnergizer said:

RicOlie_2 said:

moviefreakedmind said:

Another example of Christian opposition to freedom:

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2018/09/anti-lgbtq-protesters-swarmed-library-protest-drag-queen-story-hour/

If you call the normalization of mental illnesses freedom, then sure. Gender dysphoria is contagious among certain segments of the population, so I have a hard time believing that it’s normal and healthy to believe you’re in the wrong body. What happened to telling people to be happy with their body and the way they are?

Though comment sections rarely offer anything edifying, I found this comment from your linked article quite agreeable:

The truth is likely somewhere in between. It is misguided to assume that ‘ALL individuals who experience gender dysphoria are born that way’, or that ‘ALL individuals who experience gender dysphoria are confused’. When you start contemplating ALL or NOTHING statements in social or psychological research, you are probably wrong.

It is important that we clarify these issues and determine how best to approach gender dysphoria in these young populations. I could not even imagine the potential regret or harm that young individuals might experience by making decisions at a young age that will impact their entire lives. I absolutely support counselling that includes exploration of social and psychological issues as part of a complete treatment plan. It’s important not to be narrow-minded.

You went into the comments section on an Internet news site and not only came out unscathed, but having found a thoughtful and cogent analysis in there.

I am now considering starting a religion worshipping you, but I’d like to know your opinion on ritual flagellation before I get too far down that road.

I quite honestly haven’t seen any sign of that. The existence of crazies on both sides is not proof that crazies are running the show on either side – otherwise they’ve always been running the show. There is, however, some political advantage in throwing bones to the crazies so that they show up to the polls, but that’s also been a feature of democracy since forever.

EDIT: There are clearly Democrats who are fact-resistant – vaccines, cell phone radiation, etc – and I happen to live in a town with more than its fair share of them. But they’re still very much a tiny minority, and safe to ignore. The good and bad thing about Democrats is it’s pretty much impossible to get any reasonably large number of them to agree on anything much more complicated than “water is wet”, and I’m sure you could get some LaRouchites in there to argue that one.

Jay said:

Regardless of what the FBI finds, if Kavanaugh is confirmed, most Democrats will believe we have a sexual predator on the Supreme Court. I feel totally comfortable using the word “most”.

If the FBI finds nothing, but possibly because they were instructed not to look for certain things that would be reasonable for such an investigation, I’d have a hard time not joining that number, though I’m not a Democrat anymore. As I said, cover-ups scream “guilty” even when it’s not true. The “dirty defense” as you call it would be entirely to blame for people’s misperceptions if he’s actually innocent.

Jay said:

Possessed said:

Warbler you should really have a beer man

Yeah.

CatBus said:

It’s hard not to conclude that both the Senate and the White House are working very, very hard to prevent people from actually performing the investigation that could be used to clear Kavanaugh, and to wonder what sort of advantage such a heavily biased process could possibly give to an innocent man.

What do you think they could possibly find at this point to clear him? Short of a plane ticket stub and passport stamp that shows he was out of the country that entire summer, I doubt there’s anything that would prove to any Democrat he’s innocent.

“Clearing” means finding no evidence of guilt (i.e. innocent until proven guilty). So by not finding anything, they clear him (that doesn’t necessarily disprove Ford’s accusation either, it just fails to prove it). However, if they don’t find anything because they were instructed not to investigate, that’s another matter entirely. That’s the difference between “not guilty” and “coverup”. And “coverup” just screams “guilty”, whether it’s true or not.

Innocent or guilty outside the legal definition is a partisan playground. The FBI cleared Clinton of any criminal wrongdoing with regard to e-mails, and most people are fine with that. And clearly there’s still a fringe of people who think she’s guilty of something. Certainly the same will be true for Kavanaugh. But “all Democrats”? That’s extreme. It’s like saying all Republicans believe in Mailghazi. It’s just not true.

The press and Democrats were particularly up in arms about this issue precisely because it wasn’t being investigated. With an investigation – one not circumscribed by the White House – people will go back to disliking his politics, or his propensity to commit perjury and spout conspiracy theories. They’re not going to start liking him, that’s fairly certain, and they will continue to say bad and even mean things about him, but this particular issue would fade in importance. If they actually find evidence disproving the accusers’ testimony entirely, the issue would drop to Pizzagate levels of support among Democrats.

I agree it’s unlikely they’ll find much. There’s a little more evidence to sift through in this case than a “he-said/she-said” scenario, but it is just a little more. Failing to find anything at all (most likely scenario), he’ll be cleared, but Ford’s accusation will remain plausible. There’s a legal distinction between “innocent” and “not guilty”, and people may have a hard time finding him innocent. But most people (Democrats included) would recognize that the legal process would nevertheless have found him effectively “not guilty” (technically: not enough evidence to charge, but close enough), assuming that legal process is permitted to happen… which is unfortunately still very much in question.

CatBus said:

In the end, this may very well amount to no difference for all involved. But procedurally, it may help solidify a precedent. Anita Hill’s accusations yielded an investigation (followed by a confirmation). Similarly, although it wasn’t looking like this way until the very last minute, Ford’s accusation will be afforded the same degree of respect, at least in terms of an investigation. Probably to be followed by a confirmation as well.

But the precedent will be harder to ignore next time. The next time a credible accusation of a serious crime is made, the argument of “we can’t afford to waste a few days investigating, we have a letter right here that says nothing happened and that’s good enough for us, so let’s vote right now!” will seem even more spurious than before.

The histrionics of Sen. Graham’s dire warnings aside, the man still had a point. The next time a Democratic president nominates a judge, and that judge faces a credible accusation of criminal behavior, there will be payback. That judge quite simply will have to suffer the indignity of an FBI investigation. And good. That sounds like the way it ought to be for everyone.

Never the hell mind – I was wrong, there’s no sane precedent being made here. Partisan trench warfare continues unabated.

Looks like Hill’s claims got an investigation, and Ford’s claims get an “investigation”. Where the White House counsel provides the FBI with a list of the only people they are permitted to interview and shit like that, no joke. Want to talk to Judge’s former employer as a means of verifying those elements of Ford’s story? Too bad for you, that’s not in the White House-approved script. The lack of an investigation and lack of calling witnesses to testify is what made this whole affair smell at the start, not the accusation itself. Hamstringing the investigation like this now makes it stink. It’s hard not to conclude that both the Senate and the White House are working very, very hard to prevent people from actually performing the investigation that could be used to clear Kavanaugh, and to wonder what sort of advantage such a heavily biased process could possibly give to an innocent man.

EDIT: Oh who the hell knows anymore. People verify McGahn indeed hamstrung the investigation, but then Trump tweets that it never happened. Does that mean McGahn’s restrictions get reversed, or it’s just another round of gaslighting and business as usual? The story will surely reverse itself tomorrow regardless.

https://twitter.com/KenDilanianNBC/status/1046248077949063168?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1046248077949063168&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailykos.com%2Fstory%2F2018%2F9%2F29%2F1800137%2F-BREAKING-FBI-Investigation-NOT-so-Limited-says-Trump

In the end, this may very well amount to no difference for all involved. But procedurally, it may help solidify a precedent. Anita Hill’s accusations yielded an investigation (followed by a confirmation). Similarly, although it wasn’t looking like this way until the very last minute, Ford’s accusation will be afforded the same degree of respect, at least in terms of an investigation. Probably to be followed by a confirmation as well.

But the precedent will be harder to ignore next time. The next time a credible accusation of a serious crime is made, the argument of “we can’t afford to waste a few days investigating, we have a letter right here that says nothing happened and that’s good enough for us, so let’s vote right now!” will seem even more spurious than before.

The histrionics of Sen. Graham’s dire warnings aside, the man still had a point. The next time a Democratic president nominates a judge, and that judge faces a credible accusation of criminal behavior, there will be payback. That judge quite simply will have to suffer the indignity of an FBI investigation. And good. That sounds like the way it ought to be for everyone.

dahmage said:

Jay said:

Warbler said:

Jay said:

Warbler said:

Jay said:

Warbler said:

SilverWook said:

Wouldn’t a history of alcoholism be a disqualifying factor in of itself?

Not if it is passed history. People have been known to have a problem with alcohol and overcome it later on. Remember you are talking about a history of extremely drinking when he was a teenager. I have heard no one say that he still has a drinking problem. Does extreme drinking necessarily = alcoholism?

I drank heavily during the 4 years I was in college and then pretty much stopped outside occasional social gatherings. Never blacked out, but did get thoroughly wasted on many occasions and it definitely altered my behavior.

It’s entirely possible Kavanaugh did what Ford says he did if he was a heavy drinker. However, labeling him an alcoholic because of heavy college drinking only shows that the person applying the label has no idea what alcoholism is—or is simply using it as a smear to disqualify him or sully his character.

How possible do you think it is that someone could sexually assault someone and totally completely forget it due to extreme drunkenness?

Very possible. I had friends who were heavier drinkers than I was and I’d tell them stories the next day about shit they did or said and they wouldn’t remember.

But we are not just talking ordinary shit people do while drunk. We are talking about sexual assault. Any of them commit a sexual assault and not remember it the next day?

No, but my lived experiences aren’t the sum total of all possibilities. It’s also important to remember that if Kavanaugh did get wasted and assaulted Ford, it’s possible that in his mind his actions weren’t out of bounds since alcohol messes with your reasoning, so he could’ve seen it as a sloppy attempt at getting laid rather than a forceful assault and not worthy of much study/contemplation.

This I agree with

And it applies to all sorts of human interactions, even non-criminal ones: “That advice you gave me after college, it was so perfect, it spoke to my very soul–and it changed my life!” “And you are…?”

But also not as unlikely as it should be: “You shot me in the leg and then ran me over with your car as you drove away from the liquor store! I spent twelve years learning how to walk again!” “And you are…?”

I frequented a “party house” in college. You’d stop by on a Tuesday night and there’d be several people there getting drunk, hanging out, and dancing to loud music. To anyone who didn’t frequent that house, they may have reasonably described it as a party. But the parties were only on weekends, and they were much bigger. That was just the normal background level activity for that particular house. If you asked someone who lived there about the party on Tuesday, they would quite honestly say there wasn’t a party on Tuesday.

So even what qualifies as a party, let alone if it was at that house or a different one, may be reasonably in question, and dependent on the observer.

Trident said:

Well she could be. I mean its not like hiring actors has never been done.

But I’m not sure how likely that is either. I guess if someone recognized her and tied her to some acting guild that would do.

And the probability of hiring an actor who just happened to also be a sexual assault survivor is significant as well. “Hired activist prop” is not a 100% overlap with “not a survivor”.

Victims of sexual assault are everywhere, they’re just more likely to talk to you about the weather than their assault, so you’d never know under most circumstances. Even if they’re your mother, sister, or daughter. 56% of Native American women have reported experiencing sexual violence. Lower rates for other demographic groups, but it’s not an uncommon crime anywhere.

Can’t see the connection between:

There’s a credible accusation of a serious crime, complete with a witness and some corroborating accounts. And… an independent nonpartisan investigation is performed before anyone is convicted or vindicated!

…and…

The system is broken.

Sounds to me like the system surprised everyone and started working today. So yay for small favors.

Potentially, that is. Technically it’s a one-week delay and a request for an FBI investigation. Trump can still stonewall at the executive level, and then they’d be voting a week later with no investigation. And I can’t say Flake would be willing to vote No simply due to lack of an investigation. So the system would be broken as you said, if no investigation were done in spite of the request for one.

Uproar, furor, pandemonium! There’s a credible accusation of a serious crime, complete with a witness and some corroborating accounts. And… an independent nonpartisan investigation is performed before anyone is convicted or vindicated!

It’s how the party of law and order does things. And also Jeff Flake, apparently. I honestly didn’t think he’d do it.

Conservatives have little to worry about. It’s like a one-week delay and it also lets Kav say he’s been cleared of wrongdoing by the FBI (assuming they do), just like Hillary was able to do with her e-mails after the FBI cleared her.

I suppose I should say that the first home video subtitles were not necessarily the same as the theatrical subs. i.e. if you look at the Italian theatrical subs for Greedo/Jabba dialogue, it doesn’t match any home video release (this is apparently a good thing, because as I understand it, the theatrical translation was pretty crap). Nevertheless, Project Threepio does have theatrical reconstructions for those crap Italian 35mm subs, for those who want to see them.

So the first Japanese home video subs may just be exclusively home video subs, I just don’t know. We don’t have any 35mm reels to confirm. But if we did, I’d preserve at least the Greedo/Jabba lines, matching font and placement as well as translation.

But for translations of the whole film, I maintain only one translation, the one that most closely matches the English dialogue. I will try to make very certain that’s the case for Japanese, though, before switching. If you or anyone else want to help confirm this, let me know.