CatBus

none said:

CatBus what was your starting point for the subs?  Comparing Project Threepio to other sets and sentences are clustered differently.  Is sentence grouping something you want to get into? 

For the English subs it was pretty much a blank slate at the start, but I did refer to the official subs whenever I couldn't quite decipher something (and as I'm discovering, that might not have been a good move!).  The clustering goal was to maximize display time for subs (readability), and that took priority over almost everything else, including clusters that would seem more linguistically natural (question-answer, etc).  I allowed longer lines than the official subs but I still wouldn't let lines run over a certain length, so that was a factor too.

And I actually did the SDH subs first and retrofitted the regular subs from that, so part of the grouping was designed to leave space for SDH cues, even in subs that don't have those cues anymore (so you may see odd spaces where clusters COULD happen but don't).  Then the foreign subs were pretty closely derived from the official GOUT subs, but adjusted to this new timing/grouping.

Given that, I'm not surprised that my sentence grouping is different than all other subs out there.  And I'm not interested in changing it unless there's a major problem (not sure that's even possible).

generalfrevious said:

Alright, he may have not have been a trickster the whole time, but I still think he didn't care about the continuity of the six films at all, and he has contempt for SW being successful from the beginning. Does that opinion make sense?

Not really. I'm going to throw out an alternate explanation that might appeal to you. It's not completely unheard of for someone integrally involved in the creation of a piece of art to completely fail to grasp its popular appeal. To borrow from another fanboy bucket, I've seen interviews with Sarah Michelle Gellar that make me think she just has know clue what Buffy the Vampire Slayer was even about. And yet she still made it come very much alive.

Same with Lucas, really. Maybe Lucas WANTED to make a trashy slapstick derivative space adventure with terrible dialogue and a backstory that's somewhere between inconsistent and incomprehensible. Honestly that DOES describe Buck Rogers, oft-cited as a SW inspiration. Maybe that WAS the "original vision" he's always going on about. But that's not what ultimately got created. I think it goes without saying that the influence of others brought a lot more gravity to at least the first two films, and made them much better movies.

So when Star Wars became a huge phenomenon, Lucas thought it was a validation of his "derivative slapstick" philosophy. He completely failed to grasp that it was the other stuff people liked. It's not a matter of his having hated Star Wars all along, it's a matter of him never comprehending what Star Wars was about to begin with (as far as its fans were concerned). Add to this the fact that he's a serial fiddler (look at the audio mixes for crying out loud), and it's only surprising the trilogy lasted as long as it did before he ran it into the ground.

It's not a pathological drive to destroy art, it's a pathological ego-driven failure to understand its value.  The result is the same.

Don't worry, msycamore, you're not holding anything up.  Let me know if you're done with SW yet, though.  I'm curious.

TV's Frink said:

Hey, can you do subs for my edits? ;-)

Working on it.  My Esperanto is rusty.

Harmy said:

Mainly, he manipulated n1 into not posting here anymore, the old master manipulator :-)

Actually I'd say he BAITED him, the old... er... nevermind.

Do I have to think of everything around here?

*fnord*

Problem solved.

You_Too, please let me know if my waiting for msycamore's comments is holding you back.  I figure since you're using just the text files, you may either be able to change them yourself or I can transfer you my altered SRT files whenever you need them.  I'm fine with either way.

Yep, I switched it to "their" upon further listening.  However, I'm leaving out the "Oh, no".  I'm sure there are many lines that were scripted and misspoken, or spoken but are so lost in the mix that I'm not subtitling them as scripted.  Subtitles are ultimately designed to show what you'd hear, and if it's even somewhat dubious if someone would even hear it, chances are I'm leaving it out.

By the way, msycamore, if you're planning to take a look through Empire and Jedi, maybe I'll delay my re-upload until you've had a chance to have your say on them.  I really do appreciate the feedback.

Yes, exactly.  That line was really borderline for me.  It was screwing up timing for readability and because of the dialogue overlap and other noises it's also actually an easy line to simply not hear at all (although it's certainly not inaudible).  So I left it out.  That was intentional.

Wow, thanks for the feedback, msycamore!  I think part of the problem with my grand plan was that the GOUT English subs were very inaccurate so I rarely used them for reference, so I had no proofreader other than myself.  So thank you very much for the proofread.

As far as my subjective take, I'm agreeing with all of your corrections (even "deflector screens") except the exclamation mark.  Although the line delivery is definitely unexcited, I think the exclamation still fits in context.

Also, thanks for the mono mix inserts/changes.  I won't be including them but I appreciate the additions.  Thanks also for the undeserved credit on the "more wealth" line.  If I tried to dub every inadequately articulated line as-is, I'd have a much harder job.  No, this was just an ordinary mistake.

I will be uploading corrected subs soon.

So, who's up for sampling all the major vowel and consonant sounds spoken by all the characters in the PT, and remixing them to sound like the dialog from the OT, spoken by characters from the PT.

Because a great project like this requires an equally great soundtrack.

Bah! You haven't REALLY seen Star Wars unless you've done it from inside a Chevette with a crackly mono speaker stuck in your window.  And the reel breaks.  Twice.

Trust me kids, most of us old farts didn't have a very great theatrical experience either, in spite of living during the glory days.

Even our definition of "Star Wars" varies.  Mine is a trilogy of three films from 1977-1983.  If pushed, I will expand my definition to include the Holiday Special and some Ewok movies.

The Special Editions aren't Star Wars, they are impostors.  The prequels aren't Star Wars either, they are relatives of the impostors trying to tag along for the ride.  As such, hating them doesn't even remotely dampen my enthusiasm for Star Wars, because they are unrelated.

I plan on bringing my copy of this to a Star Wars fan with an awesome home theatre and then lingering around a bit to see if maybe he wants to give it a spin.  Sure, I'll stay and watch with you!  He is not really aware of any of these preservation projects and only has a TR47 LD rip from many years ago.  I'm pretty sure I'll get invited back.

Also, nobody's commented on it, but I really LOVED the film lead-in and lead-out on WP3.  I know it's not practical in the regular stream because it would throw off GOUT sync, but maybe you could work in into the BD as one of those menu-driven transitional videos before and after the main feature.

negative1 said:

i personally try to stay as far away from people as possible, and haven't

had to relate to them in the last several years

"Hell is other people." --Sartre

Paramecium302 said:

I watch whichever one is most convenient at the time.

I used to watch whatever was least convenient ;)

Not because I liked having to do a g----mn treasure hunt just to watch a movie ("OMG! Japanese Special Collection LD set is up on EBay! Must bid!"), but that was simply the only way to see it.  Now options are improving and it's almost as convenient & easy to see Star Wars now as it is to see any other movie.  But there are limits--I doubt Netflix will ever carry anything but the Special Editions, for example.

My first reaction upon seeing him?  Honestly, it was "Who the hell is that?"  I really had no idea who this goober was, but I was able to piece together from context that it was supposed to be Vader.

The two or three scenes I can actually remember from the prequels do not feature Hayden Christensen, which actually speaks well of him because my only memories of the PT are of the bits that caused me to leave the theatre.

If we didn't love it, we wouldn't be trying to save it.  Look at those callous bastards over at TFN, they seem completely indifferent to or excited about the demise of Star Wars.  I'm not actually sure I've read a single post here from someone who appears to hate Star Wars.  Are you sure you're on the right forum?

Harmy said:

So if someone has some crazy suggestion they want to see done, now's probably a good time ;-)

 PG ratings thingie after the credits (like Jedi).

I remember paying to see something that looked suspiciously like the Despecialized Editions a few decades ago, but that guy is probably long gone by now...

I'm not interested in that for the main project, but if you want to post download links for mono mix subs in this thread for interested people, go ahead.

EDIT: Er, actually check the thread rule stickies first.  Maybe don't link anything directly from here.  But you can provide info here if you like.

I've already made sure Harmy has the Portuguese dub ;)

Although I didn't list it explicitly, improved Portuguese subs for ESB and ROTJ is another reason I would update these files, because I'm less confident about these.

silverwheel said:

CatBus said:

EDIT: This means that IMO fan edits are EXACTLY the same as the Special Editions, by every moral measure except fraud.

Considering that Lucas didn't direct ESB or ROTJ, I would argue that those Special Editions are rather morally questionable...

Well that's the fraud part, and Star Wars doesn't get off the hook either.  Fans can edit ESB or ROTJ and there's no problem with that because they don't claim to be the real thing.  If Lucas didn't pretend that the edited version was the real thing, there'd be no fraud on his end either.