CatBus

IronMagus said:

What do you guys think about using the names "Artoo" and "Threepio" when the droids are referred to by name?  You would still spell out "R2-D2" and "C-3PO" when using their full designation, and of course you wouldn't talk about an "artoo unit," but when they're being spoken of, or to, like people, why not use a people-like-looking name?

I know what you're saying, but my project is all about readability over all other considerations, so R2-D2 and C-3PO shorten to R2 and 3PO.  There's a strong case to be made otherwise (Threepio is written as such in the credits), but I'm still doing it this way.

Wow do I not hear this at all.  It must be really buried.

For those keeping score, here's what I'm changing:

"going to" -> "gonna"

"It's your father's lightsaber" -> "Your father's lightsaber"

"Seventeen?" -> "Seventeen, huh?"

As for the other things, it's often a judgement call and following the principle of "when in doubt, don't", I didn't.  For example, Luke definitely does make a sound before "Just Luke", but it could be "It's just Luke" or "No, just Luke", or "Heh, just Luke" (a continuation of the laugh).  Not knowing if the sound was even a word or not, I didn't subtitle it.

Oh, yeah, and more on "importances".  The script reads "A person of some importance, sir -- I believe", and the only certain thing about this is that's definitely not what's actually said.  So it's a choice between two awkward sentences that reflect the flub, or just leaving out the "s/as" to make it less awkward, which is what most subtitles do.  I opted for my favorite way to turn the flub into words, but really "as" is just as good.

Thanks for all of the suggestions so far.

All comments are welcome, but I won't necessarily change anything ;)

That said, sentence grouping (which sentences should be in which cluster) are definitely off my radar unless you can manage to convince me it's the end of the world.  Odd sentence clusters are almost definitely from trying to keep the SDH subs and regular subs timed roughly the same, so you may see them in scenes where R2 beeps or other sound effects happen. 

Also, audio sync will vary a little bit, particularly in scenes with lots of talking, because I prioritized having lines display onscreen long enough to read over having them start at exactly the right time.  "Long enough to read" is subjective but I tried to follow some consistent guidelines on the matter, and I don't think I ever pushed audio sync off to unacceptable levels, except when working with burnt-in alien subs in the cantina and Jabba's palace, when I didn't really have a choice.

Lots of dialog is barely audible right at the beginning (not sure why, maybe a side-effect of ADR?), and you really have to crank the volume or listen to an alternate clearer mix the get the whole sentence.  In most of these cases I opted to subtitle the barely audible beginnings if it made the sentence more complete.  In contrast, if the entire line was inaudible, I dropped the whole thing.

Yes, I think "importances" is a flub, so I subtitled it as a flub ;)

As for the others, I'll read through them and give them a listen.  I just released an update though, so I'll probably sit on any changes I make for a while until enough changes are accumulated.  My case of burnout on this project will hopefully subside if I just ease up on it for a while, which may take the form of me not being terribly responsive, and I apologize in advance.

I believe the "How long have you had these droids?" line is shifted about a second earlier in the mono mix.  I believe hairy_hen pointed this out in another thread, stating that it makes it look like Luke has to think a little bit before he responds.

PM sent.  Any other questions about it should go in the other thread, as it's not directly related to this project.

These may work for you, depending on which languages you need.  (warning: the download is big because SRT files are just a small fraction of it)

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Announcing-Project-Threepio-Star-Wars-OOT-subtitles/topic/13794/

timdiggerm said:

Yeah, but the End Credits always have themes from the movie.

It was a ...

"throne" ... bathroom ... geddit?

Ah, man, that fell flat.

Because the movie is over and it's okay to go to the bathroom now?

walking_carpet said:

i've been hearing a lot of this teal-orange thing.  can someone explain?  at first I thought it was too many movies having a blueish tint like Underworld.  I saw a link that explained it further, but not sure if I get it.

I'll do my best.  When you retime a film, you can choose to push everything to opposite color extremities: green/purple, yellow/blue, etc.  Because these colors contrast with each other, they make the picture look more vibrant, have more "pop", jump out at you, etc.  Now because Hollywood is Hollywood, most films have an overrepresentation of actors with a skin tone that's pretty close to orange or peach color.  The opposite of orange is teal, which sometimes the sky can look like if, you know, you're wearing green sunglasses or there's a tornado nearby.  So orange-teal is the preferred pair of colors because it kinda-sorta matches an oversaturated version of what's typically onscreen.

The result is that many films today, and more importantly, many older films being released on Blu Ray, have unrealistic colors in a very consistent way, summed up as Tanning Bed Disasters Versus Tornado Alley Skies.  Now, I like when people use color timing alterations to some sort of artistic end: I loved what they did with Amelie and O Brother Where Art Thou?  It's a great tool when used properly.  But boy am I effing sick of teal and orange.

The blog post that kicked off a lot of people's interest in this is here: http://theabyssgazes.blogspot.com/2010/03/teal-and-orange-hollywood-please-stop.html  I don't necessarily agree that every example he gives is egregious and unnatural, but certainly some of them are, and even the ones that aren't unnatural show a complete lack of interest in any other colors by the costume/set designers/CGI artists.

ALSO: Where is the Buckaroo Banzai love in this thread?

Harmy said:

CatBus said:

I don't think higher quality source material is a problem anymore for SW and ESB. 

You'd think so, wouldn't you...

Ah, so that's how it is. :(

I don't think higher quality source material is a problem anymore for SW and ESB.  Damn Vader eyebrows in ROTJ may continue to be a sticky problem though.  Grr, that one really gets me.

Sure, keep in mind that this project is designed for the "supply-side", for the creators of preservations, so that in the long run you may not have to do this for yourself.  So the tools used for this may be unfamiliar to you.

The main data files on a Blu Ray/AVCHD are the M2TS files, and the main data files on a DVD are the VOB files.  Each file contains multiple "streams"--typically a video stream and a few audio streams.  They can also contain subpicture streams, which is where subtitles are stored.

You can demux these files, which means extract all of the individual streams, and you can mux them, which means merge them together into a VOB or M2TS file.

It looks like you're dealing with the DVD downscale of Harmy's Despecialized Edition.  You'll need a tool like vobmerge to take all of the individual VOB files and make them into one big merged VOB file.  Then you can use a tool like PGCDemux to extract the video and audio streams.

At that point you can just use muxman to merge them back together into a DVD folder structure, and you just add in the SUP files (*NOT* the SRT files!) as subtitle streams.  You can find some rudimentary instructions for this in the _dvd_workflow.txt file, toward the end.  Just be sure to specify a language and select the LB and Wide options for each subtitle.

If you want to do this with a Blu Ray or AVCHD, just do the exact same thing, except the software you use is called tsmuxergui, which does both the demuxing and the muxing.

The SUP files for DVDs are in the "SUP-NTSC DVD" folder, and the SUP files for Blu Rays and AVCHDs are in the "SUP-720p" folder.

You may be able to do something simpler, more like what you were trying to do initially, where you play back the files and point the player software at the SRT files.  But frankly I'm not sure how well that will work out, and I'm sure it won't look as nice as I intended (all special formatting may be lost, font size may not be right, leading to extra line wraps, etc).  Nevertheless, I believe you may be able to merge the VOB files into one big VOB file, as described above, and then you can just play that with VLC pointed at the SRT files.  VLC won't get confused when jumping to the next VOB file because there won't be a next VOB file.  But I haven't tested that and if it doesn't work there's not much help I can offer--that wasn't really how these files were designed to be used.

Hope that helps!

Ending my participation on this front.  I personally find the rope supply business to be hilarious, but I see how others can find it to be tedious.

It's weird how random unrelated people all over the world can all get the exact same totally off-base ideas about you.  The odds of having that happening without the slightest hint of bigotry from you...

DavidBrennan said:

Mercifully, though, the word "effeminate" can safely be used at my MMA, paleo diet, and other forums without triggering howls of fake emotion.

You forgot to mention stormfront.

I admit it!  We're all just trying to trick you into saying something that sounds homophobic!  Thank goodness you haven't taken the bait, right?

Man, you really are the tragic, misunderstood hero of this piece, aren't you?

BTW, I've heard mockery is often misinterpreted as outrage, here and elsewhere.

Frankly I don't know what's more precious: that you might think your mastery of words can dig you out of this hole, or that you might not think you're in a hole at all.  Either way it's adorable as all get out.  Please keep it up.

laserdisc said:

I have a question which will no doubt drive people mad, as I'm sure it's been But can some in the know clear up the quote (or misquote) above? Are the blu rays the same resolution as the HDTV broadcasts? Why does Harmy say he would still need to work in 720p? Is it because upscaling oot elements to 1080p becomes noticable? Thanks.

The film scan upon which the HDTV version and the Blu Rays are based is the same resolution.  It's an old low-res cruddy scan by today's standards, so even though the Blu Rays are technically 1080p, they really aren't that much better than 720p given the lack of detail resolution in the source material.

Actually Harmy could work at 1080p using Blu Ray sources and private film scans.  I don't think he'd get much benefit for the abovementioned reasons, but every little bit counts I suppose.  IMO the sweet spot for Star Wars preservations based on the Blu Rays is 720p until there's a new 4K scan of the film.

ALSO: Harmy is using the Blu Rays as a source, so that quote is already wrong on one point.  While they aren't really that much more detailed than 720p would be at the same compression ratio, they do have more detail than the HDTV versions due to less compression.

Not caring to find out what it meant was actually my very favorite part of his post.  It's the pure distillation of willful ignorance.  I want to frame it.

TheBoost said:

CatBus said:

DavidBrennan said:

...

Wow, just wow.  I can't imagine a less effective post for demonstrating how completely blameless you were in this whole affair...

 Calm down PC Police! Stop trying to censor David's brave fight against all the girly hysterical power-tripping lisping stupid plants who only exist to oppress his thoughtful free speech!

Fight the power Davey! Fight the power!

Sorry, I got all hysterical.  I think this transgendered thing, whatever it is, must be contagious.

DavidBrennan said:

...

Wow, just wow.  I can't imagine a less effective post for demonstrating how completely blameless you were in this whole affair...

You_Too said:

Actually, he said 2006

 Ha! Weird we both made the same typo, thanks!

You would probably like dark_jedi's preservation here best:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Star-Wars-Original-Trilogy-Theatrical-Editions-Info-ALL-versions-SEE-FIRST-POST-FOR-INFO-AND-AVAILABILITY/topic/10550/

The V3 DVDs are very nice.

You MAY want to check out Harmy's despecialized editions too.  This is the Star Wars link:

http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Harmys-STAR-WARS-Despecialized-Edition-HD-AVCHD-DVD9-and-NTSC-DVD5-AVAILABLE-see-1st-post/topic/12713/

Proper anamorphic (16x9) is a given with any preservation these days, and 5.1?  Heh, are you in for a surprise--the 5.1 mix used by dark_jedi and Harmy will blow away any mix you have ever heard for Star Wars, ever, period.

As for color correction, these both are color corrected, because the color on the 2004 DVDs is simply badly inaccurate by any objective standard.

flynn2000 said:

The only quibble I have with it is Vader's cloak brightening, starting at 1:08:17. I don't think the benefits of making the cloak stand out more from the darkness make up for the high graininess swarming over it. Plus it looks like a matte is moving over it. I'm curious to see how others see it.

This is the only thing I noticed too.  It also may have something to do with how lower-bitrate encodes deal with very minor color differences.  It may be OK at a higher bitrate, not sure.  Didn't look quite right how it was IMO.