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CSchmidlapp

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11-Jan-2012
Last activity
6-Jun-2025
Posts
178

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Post
#758129
Topic
The Dark Knight Trilogy - Theatrical Preservation. (* unfinished project *)
Time

Stamper said:

Saw TDK at a press screening, and the Blu-ray doesn't match what I saw at all. Period. The parking lot scene (when Batman jumps from above and crushes the car) was absolutely breathtakingly crystal clear and beautiful.

Remember, Nolan tried to match this film look to Michael Mann's HEAT. Does the Blu looks like a Mann's palette? Nope. 

 Indeed 'Heat' was an inspiration for TDK like Blade Runner was for BB. I read somewhere he played them the crew before production.

I thought it was more in terms of scale and mood, not copying the colour pallets. TDKR inspiration was the Charles Dickens book 'A Tale of Two Cities'.

Post
#758125
Topic
The Dark Knight Trilogy - Theatrical Preservation. (* unfinished project *)
Time

CodySolo said:

I have a 35mm copy of TDK theatrical trailer stashed away somewhere.  Would that be of any use for color reference, or would it be pointless since it might have been recolored prior to the full film release anyway?  

 Cheers CodySolo. But I believe it was recoloured by the marketing department and not representative of the final 35mm version.

Post
#758124
Topic
The Dark Knight Trilogy - Theatrical Preservation. (* unfinished project *)
Time

TServo2049 said:

OK, I just saw an IMAX print screening of TDK, and the colors do look in line with the more "green" images. Maybe not as green/yellow, but certainly not as pink/red as the Blu-ray. Either blue/teal with some green, or yellow/orange/brown, in line with how I remember the film looking in 35mm in 2008.

 Thanks for this.

Very Interesting. I was begining to believe that the IMAX print (which I think is the version that made its way onto Blu) would not be that much different.

so.....

They took the 35mm parts and 'upscaled' it to IMAX for that print. It's unknown at this point if it was taken from the finished (Nolan Approved) version (Colour ect) or before.

The IMAX version is what was put to Blu ray. This has also been mangled / changed (Colour, more EE).

How do we explain the problems with the DVD / HDTV versions that contain the 2:35:1 crops on the IMAX scenes? Were they taken from the 35mm version? The problems (Colour, EE ect) are identical.

Just out of interest, I don't know if you will remember TServo2049, but was the Bank Vault in the Prologue Blue (Begins footage) or Green (TDK BLu) ? Im sorry I should of asked you to look out for it.

Post
#754198
Topic
Info & Help Wanted: is there a way to color correct the ghostbusters blu rays to look like how spook central says it should look?
Time

jedimasterobiwan said:

just look back in this forum really time travel joke come on i was being serious. so there's no way to get even close to right colors this sucks

 Ive just looked back in this forum and I think you should type 'Ghostbusters 35mm' into Google and start there.

Anything you find of value post it in a thread. Proberbly start a new one here if the mods can not move this one. 

Post
#751682
Topic
The Dark Knight Trilogy - Theatrical Preservation. (* unfinished project *)
Time

Here is some information im copying over from the avforums thread. There more for my benifit as the thread is quite long and full of de-rails. Some interesting information, its a shame some of the original links to articles are now down.

From the American Cinematographer story (Whole article Here) on TDK:

After shooting was complete, and after the editing process was well under way, DKP 70mm scanned select Imax takes at 8K resolution on a unique Northlight scanner. Then, Pacific Title and other facilities made 2.40:1 extractions from the 1.33:1 Imax negative to conform to the framing and movement decisions made in the Avid by Nolan and editor Lee Smith. That process resulted in a 35mm anamorphic negative, which was combined with effects shots and used to generate 35mm release prints.

To bring scenes shot in 35mm to Imax screens, where images are projected in 1.43:1, DKP 70mm scanned the 35mm interpositive at 4K, and an Imax team in Toronto applied digital DMR (Digital Remastering) processing to degrain and sharpen the images. The process stayed at 4K until the images were filmed out onto 65mm back at Keighley's facility and combined with the Imax material for print. The final Imax print combined the 4K DMR filmout, 5.6K and 8K Imax filmouts, and 18K contact prints from the Imax negative, says Keighley.

People suggested Chris and Wally should have covered themselves by shooting key sequences in both 35mm and Imax, but the 2.40:1 extraction from the Imax frame looks beautiful, he continues. In fact, due to the oversampling, it's probably the best 35mm anamorphic image we've ever seen. If we'd had time to scan the original negative at 6K, we could have produced even higher quality. The information is on the negative 35mm film captures the equivalent of 6K and a color bit depth of 14 bits plus.

As they did with the Imax prints of Batman Begins, Keighley and his team screened each of the 80 Imax prints of Dark Knight in real time to ensure quality. We're a small group of hands-on people who really care about images, he says. We pay attention to all the details all the way to the screen.

http://www.videography.com/articles/article_15888.shtml
"You also have to go in the other direction for the IMAX release. For these, the cut 35mm negative was color-timed at the lab [instead of a DI], producing an interpositive of the 35mm portions of the film. This went to IMAX, who used DMR—an IMAX-proprietary digital process—to 'blow up' the 35mm to the IMAX format. These scenes were then intercut with the IMAX camera negative. So, digital processes were used for the two format conversions, but each set of release prints was created by cutting the negative and timing the shots in a traditional manner."

It seems the concensus up to now is that that they used the IMAX version for the Blu. This version had 35mm blowups proberbly Edge Enhanched and corrected to the IMAX sequences, and then when put to BLU, another layer of EE and DNR was applyed. The EE and DNR are inconsistant through out the transfer.

http://gizmodo.com/5250780/how-regular-movies-become-imax-films

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom292114QPM/#/10

Courtesy: Mr. Torsten Kaiser @ blu-raycom

Having seen TDK tonight on the biggest IMAX theater screen Europe has to offer, I have to agree with RAH - the image is EXTREMELY interesting, indeed. To anyone, who has not seen the film in an IMAX theater, I would very much advise that you do. It is a truly amazing experience; especially the HONG KONG and the truck-under-the bridge sequences. I am truly impressed by the work at Framestore and Double Negative - they exceeded my expectations as to what would really be possible without "showing" in 8K by far. Perfect craftsmenship.
I can confirm that RAH's eyes were not getting the best of him re: the 35mm parts not being exposed full width. As far as I could determine, the AR is no wider than 1.90:1, in my book closer to 1.85.1. I will try to get the exact AR later next week.
And yes, I did notice some artifacting in very few shots on the 35mm PV material, ironically not in anywhere I would think SFX played a role. It may be that the stock was thought to be too grainy (although the VISION 2 is just excellent, thank you).

Re: Blu-ray discussion re: Halos/possible so-called "EE" and artifacts: While I want to wait a bit till I see the Blu-ray in its entirety (I saw merely bits and pieces as of yet and some of the capture flying around the web tied to all sorts of foregone conclusions and accusations) I can say this:
a) the grading of the HD master is not representing the image of the IMAX presentation, The Blu-ray has a tendency toward red (also in white), the IMAX presentation is stylistically very well balanced with fine cyan and pale yellowish tones,no red tendency at all, even the fleshtones are slightly orange.
b) the first shot of The Joker filmed from the back is framed on the Blu-ray with the feet cut but the top wide open. The original shot shows his feet almost to the ground and the skyline well centered in the composition. This, in my view, was not a good idea. It is, however, the only shot I remember from what I saw of the Blu-ray where this happend.
c) some of the shots on the Blu-ray (very few) were graded too "punchy" meaning the contrast was stretched too much in favour of losing detail in white. The shot inside the Gotham General Hospital (nice touch, by the way) with the cops roaming is one of them. This brings me to
d) and here is where I have Qs: is there anyone out there reading this with profound KNOWLEDGE and insight who can tell definitively HOW the Blu-ray master was assembled (i.e. from what) ?
The reason is this: As RAH (I think), I suspect that the IMAX 65mm image (very likely from data files) was used and reframed. If that was, indeed, the case, the problem re: "EE" stems not from any electronic "enhancements" at all, but is the result of a combination of photo-chemical issues (35mm PV 4perf blow-up to 65mm 15perf) and at least also digital issues (downconversion to HD level, with some troubles re: soft shots on the 35mm PV level). Here, it is possible that in some of those shots the decision was made to sharpen the image. This would have brought out the "ringing" that already exists on the photo-chemical level that is clearly evident even more. So, again, the so-called "EE" is, and that I can say for sure, NOT caused by the digital treatment, it is rather a result of what is already buried in the elements - provided, these datafiles were, indeed, used. Confirmation (or otherwise) would be very welcome. In the final analysis, what I have seen of the Blu-ray so far is mostly excellent, minus the color grading thing

I hope this helps draw a line under the "EE" issue that has caused a "war" at some other site...
"Shooting on IMAX posed some serious postproduction issues, too. Smith continued, "Chris really likes the look of film and the photochemical finishing process instead of a DI, so our post followed the traditional routeexcept for the IMAX negative, of course. Our goal was to keep the IMAX in its native format for the IMAX screenings. For the 35mm prints, the IMAX shots were digitally scanned and recorded to 35mm negative that was cut together with the 35mm camera negative. IMAX does this by scanning their 65mm negative at 8K resolution. Effects within the IMAX scenes were handled at 8K as well. These shots were then reduced to 4K resolution and recorded out to 35mm film. "
Wally Pfister oversaw the creation of the BD Version (panasonic kudo TV Used)
Post
#751535
Topic
The Dark Knight Trilogy - Theatrical Preservation. (* unfinished project *)
Time

So ive recieved the 'Ultimate' box set and the IMAX sequences on disc 6 are the same colour grading as the blu ray.

On some of the later TV spots for TDK, the colour grading is more in tune with the BLU as well. Maybe besides the other problems with the transfer, the colour grading is infact correct on the BLU? I certainly prefer the advertising materials look, but it might not be the final finished grade approved by Mr Nolan.

From my understanding, promotional material is sent out for use most of the time while the film is still in production. These clips from a Assemble edit will be raw and proberbly have a blanket colour grade or one done by the marketing team.
After picture lock, the final grading will begin. If the deadline is tight, it is common that the film can be completed very close to release. (this was the case with the movie 'The Rock' with theatrical prints still being 'wet' from print when arriving at cinemas).

The 35mm stills in the OP are interesting. Is there a 'bootleg' CAM from back in the day floating around that would have been a capture of a 35mm showing?
I don't condone such things, but outside of a 35mm showing somewhere, it maybe our only way of getting to the bottom of it.

Post
#750320
Topic
Terminator 1 & 2 Projects (Released)
Time

nafroe said:

I was perusing the threads and could not find an answer... so I apologize if it was an hiding in plain sight...  I have what is perhaps a silly question about the video for these releases...  Was the the color timing adjusted for both films in an attempt to more closely resemble those color seen back in their original releases?  Am I understanding that correctly?

Yes. I believe among other things The Terminator has had it's Green tint removed and it's presented with it's Original Audio.

T2 is the Theatrical Cut created from the best sources, (that being the Japanese Blu) and contains the original CDS mix (That won the oscar!)

More information and history on the project available in team blu's project thread here.

i can not comment on the release in general as ive not had time to grab it yet.

Post
#750077
Topic
Info & Help Wanted: is there a way to color correct the ghostbusters blu rays to look like how spook central says it should look?
Time

It would be great to get some examples / samples of what it looked like in it's original theatrical run.

While the DVD's and BD release's differ quite dramatically, there is nothing to say which one, if any, is correct .

If you can not take it on the work yourself, please post anything you come across in your research in this thread. If worth while, Im sure at somepoint some fellow fan editor will take the reigns.

Post
#749411
Topic
Edge Enhancement Removal
Time

Spaced Ranger said:

There really isn't a good solution for this kind of problem. I guess it's not a big enough problem for talented AviSynth'ers to apply themselves to a good fix. You would use a chain of diverse functions (denoising, sharpening, etc.), each applied to fix the other fix's artifacts.

You might like to look at http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/THX-1138-Japanese-letterboxed-LD-preservation/topic/17360/ for links & tests of DeHalo_alpha() [an update to Blinddehalo3() by the same author] and LGhost().

 Thankyou Spaced Ranger, will take a look see.

I am new to AVIsynth's more advanced plugins, beyong changing speeds and deinterlacing im new territory.

Post
#749256
Topic
The Dark Knight Trilogy - Theatrical Preservation. (* unfinished project *)
Time

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

Good idea to make two versions - more people will be happy!

Indeed, from a work point of view it would make no difference. Just encoding time.

The only problem I can see it my internet bandwidth for delivery, it would be 2x BD-25 with both versions unless I can work out some way of 'branching' with playlists in Encore but that would not be seamless.

It's alot of Data to upload.

Post
#748902
Topic
The Dark Knight Trilogy - Theatrical Preservation. (* unfinished project *)
Time

rockin said:

The colour-correction from that video CSchidmlapp looks the best I've seen it look since its theatrical run. Good job on that. Could you possibly do a comparison clip with the apple trailer as well?

Great. I can not remember how it looked to be honest, I was really stuck into the film.

I liked the bluray when it came out also, but on closer inspection boy does it have lots of problems! What is even more anoying all of the extra material on the disc looks great!

I corrected from small clips / stills from the trailers available on disc 2 of the u.k blu of Dark knight (I beliere they are the same as the released apple trailers), and there are inconsistency's with with the same shots over all the Advertising Material

I will do more comparison's at some point, im waiting for my Ultimate Box Set to arrive so I have every bit of material I can get my hands on before the proper work begins.

Ive posted a side by side comparison of the Test colour corrected version and the Blu over at FanRes. Its a download as eveywhere keep's copyright flaging it.

Post
#748298
Topic
The Dark Knight Trilogy - Theatrical Preservation. (* unfinished project *)
Time

CSchmidlapp said:

CSchmidlapp said:

Here are some colour correction tests Ive been playing around with very quick.
First Ive cleaned up the Edge Enhancement with a AVIsynth plug in called BlindDeHalo3 on default settings.
I rendered to a 1920x1080p 4:2:2 UT loss-less codec .avi
I'm editing in Adobe Premiere and used a plugin called RE Match from RE Vision, then doing the best i can to match the source with a bit of secondary colour correction.
I used the Trailers and T.V spots as source's, and where there was not a shot for the scene, I picked a similar environment.
It is a work in progress and just a proof of concept.

DELETED

Whats interesting is it's adding in what many restorations try to correct a huge green tint! the 35mm screen shots (post 26), seem to back this up that this is so.
This video was corrected from a still frame, here is the prologue as I could match every frame.

DELETED

The original Blu ray is clipped in the Dark and Light areas, so any correction is not going to be perfect.

Ive ordered the Ultimate Box-set for the IMAX scenes on Disc 6. it also contains a more recent documentary produced for this release and should contain clips from the TDK, which will be worth a look see.

Just a side note the clips look better (A lot more detail) on my P.C than playing on my PS3 (Crushed Blacks, to much contrast.) through the same T.V.

 Here are the examples.

DELETED

Ive stitched them both together, so its the first 15mins of the film.

EDIT: And more problems!! It will not let me confirm my account.

EDIT2: Dailymotion has taken me to the point where I want to through my computer out of the window. Looking for other alternatives.

 It should be working now.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2f82ep_cctest1-2_tech

I uploaded as 720p because it would not take 1080p.

Post
#748283
Topic
The Dark Knight Trilogy - Theatrical Preservation. (* unfinished project *)
Time

CSchmidlapp said:

Here are some colour correction tests Ive been playing around with very quick.
First Ive cleaned up the Edge Enhancement with a AVIsynth plug in called BlindDeHalo3 on default settings.
I rendered to a 1920x1080p 4:2:2 UT loss-less codec .avi
I'm editing in Adobe Premiere and used a plugin called RE Match from RE Vision, then doing the best i can to match the source with a bit of secondary colour correction.
I used the Trailers and T.V spots as source's, and where there was not a shot for the scene, I picked a similar environment.
It is a work in progress and just a proof of concept.

DELETED

Whats interesting is it's adding in what many restorations try to correct a huge green tint! the 35mm screen shots (post 26), seem to back this up that this is so.
This video was corrected from a still frame, here is the prologue as I could match every frame.

DELETED

The original Blu ray is clipped in the Dark and Light areas, so any correction is not going to be perfect.

Ive ordered the Ultimate Box-set for the IMAX scenes on Disc 6. it also contains a more recent documentary produced for this release and should contain clips from the TDK, which will be worth a look see.

Just a side note the clips look better (A lot more detail) on my P.C than playing on my PS3 (Crushed Blacks, to much contrast.) through the same T.V.

 Here are the examples.

DELETED

Ive stitched them both together, so its the first 15mins of the film.

EDIT: And more problems!! It will not let me confirm my account.

EDIT2: Dailymotion has taken me to the point where I want to through my computer out of the window. Looking for other alternatives.

Post
#748277
Topic
The Dark Knight Trilogy - Theatrical Preservation. (* unfinished project *)
Time

CSchmidlapp said:

jero32 said:

CSchmidlapp said:

Here are some colour correction tests Ive been playing around with very quick.
First Ive cleaned up the Edge Enhancement with a AVIsynth plug in called BlindDeHalo3 on default settings.
I rendered to a 1920x1080p 4:2:2 UT loss-less codec .avi
I'm editing in Adobe Premiere and used a plugin called RE Match from RE Vision, then doing the best i can to match the source with a bit of secondary colour correction.
I used the Trailers and T.V spots as source's, and where there was not a shot for the scene, I picked a similar environment.
It is a work in progress and just a proof of concept.

http://youtu.be/GFgcxiL_rd0

Whats interesting is it's adding in what many restorations try to correct a huge green tint! the 35mm screen shots (post 26), seem to back this up that this is so.
This video was corrected from a still frame, here is the prologue as I could match every frame.

http://youtu.be/4NMkwWUN1mY

The original Blu ray is clipped in the Dark and Light areas, so any correction is not going to be perfect.

Ive ordered the Ultimate Box-set for the IMAX scenes on Disc 6. it also contains a more recent documentary produced for this release and should contain clips from the TDK, which will be worth a look see.

Just a side note the clips look better (A lot more detail) on my P.C than playing on my PS3 (Crushed Blacks, to much contrast.) through the same T.V.

 Might wanna turn expanded color space and superwhite on on the ps3.

 Cheers.

 Both we're turned on, I did think I had already done this.

Perhaps its clipping because the clips are not legal levels (brightness, colour)?