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CO

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25-Jul-2005
Last activity
22-Apr-2019
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1,568

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Post
#154152
Topic
Return of the Jedi + Revenge of the Sith = one amazing movie!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/154152/action/topic#154152
Time
Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
I can accept that, but can you explain away the deal with Leia remembering Padme, but Luke not rememvering her?


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No one can explain it, unless you use the 'Lucas fan company line' it was the force. It is such a lame answer, I stopped arguing about it, cause Lucas couldn't take the time to think it out, because that was the whole way he approached the prequels, if it is just good enough, people will come in droves. Exhibit A: The ROTS DVD did great sales, because most people who love the PT don't look too much into the movie for ridiculous plot holes, they just want action, action, effects, and action.

Here is a quote by Rick McCallum in January 2005 right before ROTS about Leia remembering her mom, he said, "Leia's recollection as described in ROTJ have no inherent flaws and are valid given the greater context of the saga. But I suspect those looking for contradictions always find them."

If you read between the lines, even McCallum new there was a plot hole.
Post
#154126
Topic
Will this website die when/if the O-OT is released?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/154126/action/topic#154126
Time
Though I do love this site, cause this is the only SW site where you can express your opinion and not get hounded if you disagree. But I have to say if Lucas releases the O-OT on DVD, that will probably be it for me even caring about the future of SW anymore. In a sense the only reason I try to keep up with the saga anymore is the hopes of one day logging on here, and there is an official announcement for the originals unchanged.

As I said in another topic, I wish Lucas would just release it so we can move on from SW, and let the fans who love the PT have their time in the sun, and wait and see if that trilogy stands the test of time. My opinions is ROTS will sort of past the test of time because it ties so closely to Episode IV, but the TPM & AOTC will be laughed at 10 years from now. Just my opinion.
Post
#153955
Topic
Changes you want (or don't want) to the 2007 archival editions
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/153955/action/topic#153955
Time
The answer is simple and the web site states it- www.originaltrilogy.com

The only box set, archival set, saga set, 30th anniversary set I will ever buy is the O-OT.

If it is put with the prequels in a box set, I will buy it.

It it is put with the SE OT as a seamless branching option, I'll buy it.

If it is put out by itself, I will be happier than the previous 2, and buy it.

Until Lucas chooses to put the O-OT out, he will never get a dime from me again.

I know these are famous last words, but what can appeal to anyone who grew up with the OT to warrant us to buy another box set? Deleted Scenes? Documentary? New Trailers? I have seen all this stuff for the past 28 years, just give me the damn movies, and let us move on in life so we don't ever have to talk about the 30th, 35th, 40th anniversary set. It has finally gotten old.
Post
#153393
Topic
Watching in order 1-6 is screwing up the original SW for newcomers!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/153393/action/topic#153393
Time
Originally posted by: The Bizzle
No, I read your comment CO. It's just your conclusion here is fallacious:

My point is that your nostalgia is what's making it #3. Nostalgia doesn't automatically mean you love it unconditionally. just that because of your childhood memories, you give it more love than it probably deserves. Nothing really WRONG with it, but it helps to understand that up front so there's a proper frame to your argument. The nostalgia is also why you refuse to believe there was ALWAYS this divide amongst film fans and even Star Wars fans more specifically, and it's deeper than simply "Ewoks = Jar Jar" or whatever the line is that you're drawing. There were people back then who HATED ROTJ and ESB after Star Wars came out. The difference is a) you didn't really seek those people out and b) there wasn't, because of lack of internet, as far reaching a segment of the community for you to easily read about. You think it was nicer mostly because you didn't KNOW about those who hated just as people now hate the Prequels and Computer Animation and all things post models and opticals. And along with the growth of the internet has come the gift of massive overstatement. It's one thing to recognize there are some screwed up elements in all the movies, and some really screwed up stuff in the Special Editions. It's another to call it "spitting in the face" as if it carries that much weight. But that sort of overstatement isn't just accepted, it's EXPECTED.
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CO Answers:


Again, I have to disagree. When I say #3, it isn't my #3 favorite movie of all-time, it is #3 in the OT, and the last time I checked, that is dead last. If you asked me in 1983 what my top 5 movies were of all-time, I would have said: #1 Star Wars, #2 Return of the Jedi, #3 Superman II, #4 Wargames, #5 Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan. Out of all 5 of them, the only one that hasn't changed on that list is the original Star Wars. My top 5 favorite movies of all-time presently would be: 1. Star Wars, 2. Empire Strikes Back, 3. Field of Dreams, 4. Hoosiers 5. Back to the Future, cause I can watch them over and over, so again I don't know where you keep getting this nostalgia thing?

As for people hating ROTJ, as I said earlier, I am sure there were people that didn't like ROTJ, and even ESB when they came out, just look at the drop in box office numbers after the original Star Wars in 1977. And your right, the internet does exasperate the level of both sides, positive or negative.

But there was a level of Hatred toward TPM I have never seen toward any movie that was so anticipated by an already fan base. Sure have movies bombed before, yes, but you can attribute alot of TPM problems to the hype, cause people were expecting the second coming. Sure people had grown up, and realized that they didn't love Star Wars as much as they did as kids. But it is, in my opinion, such a bad movie compared to the other Star Wars movies, and alot of people feel that. Now many people would argue and say AOTC is worse, but that is another debate.

My whole point is in 1998, Star Wars between the fans was alot more civil than it is today, and there two reasons why:

1. The Prequels to many are terrible. I said before TPM is average, AOTC is better, and ROTS is pretty good. That is 3 shots for Lucas to finally get a movie that I liked, that is not a good record. There are many fans that love the prequels, and there are many fans that despise them, think they ruin the myth of Star Wars, and many people, even though they may have not liked ROTJ, didn't think it ruined the series. Star Wars, before the prequels, was never mocked by the fans, it was mocked by the people who DIDN'T like it!

2. The SE, (Greedo Shooting First, Hayden in ROTJ as a Ghost) alienated all the fans that didn't like the prequels even more. Whether it is fair or not, the refusal to put the O-OT on DVD as made many fans who grew up with the series frustrated and angry. Say, you hate the prequels, and don't recognize them, but everytime you watch ROTJ, you have to see Hayden's mug at the end.

If there were no prequels, would they be debating today how good or bad ROTJ is, sure they do that with every movie, but the prequels have brought out a level of hatred that, to me personaly, has seriously hurt the saga. You know there will always have two factions of fans, most younger, but not all who love the prequels, and mostly older, but not all who hate the prequels. I don't think George ever intended that to happen.


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Post
#153207
Topic
Watching in order 1-6 is screwing up the original SW for newcomers!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/153207/action/topic#153207
Time
So if you're talking about nostalga, I should still love ROTJ?

But you do. You're still giving it way more credit than it deserves. Hell, I rank Phantom Menace over Return of the Jedi. That movie exists solely for the last half hour. Everything before that alternates between confused and boring, save for the speederbike chase. I still like Attack of the Clones the least out of all six, so Jedi's got a leg up on one of them, but most people who make these sort of "OT PURE" arguments end up kneecapping themselves when they give Return of the Jedi way more credit than it really deserves, simply because it was made back then.


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You didn't read my comment, I said that ESB & the original are way better than ROTJ, and that though ROTJ is still a good movie it comes no where close to the quality of the first two. Does it start off slow at Jabbas Palace, yes, but the Yoda death scene is great , and when Luke kicks every ones ass on the sailbarge is great, and the final act is great with the Emperor and the Space Battle, that sequence alone is better than anything from the prequels. Now for the ending, I used to love it , but was alot better when Hayden's mug wasn't staring back at Luke, but that is another issue alltogether.

My whole point is if it was nostalgia it would be #1 for me, but it is #3, and my tastes have changed on it since then. Is it a classic, no, but it is still a pretty damn good movie.

As for people arguing about Star Wars in the early 80's, I am sure people argued about which one was better of the three, and I'm sure there were heated arguments over whether the Ewoks were necessary. But there are SW fans who despise the prequels, I mean really hate them. I personally dont like TPM, think AOTC was alright, and liked ROTS. But people didn't hate the OT, now I am talking about just SW fans now, people who were SW fans did not despise to the same level toward TPM back in 1999. Sure we didn't love the Ewoks, but I know people who utterly hate Jar Jar. Most people say the Ewoks bring down ROTJ, in which I agree, Jar Jar to most people ruins TPM, which was already shoddy to begin with, and that is why his role is limited in the next two movies.

I agree that the internet brings out some juvenile arguments, but the prequels and SE have opened up a can of worms cause people who grew up with this series feel Lucas is spitting in our face. Is it a movie, yes, do we take it to seriously sometimes, yes, but it's entertainment, that's what is suppose to be for.
Post
#153154
Topic
Watching in order 1-6 is screwing up the original SW for newcomers!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/153154/action/topic#153154
Time
Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
It's not, IMHO, ROTS is.

Anyway, I think I can sum up the problems, based on thse boards, with the old AND new generations of fans:

Old Generation: Your nastalgia blinds you.
New generation: Your CG blinds you.


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I disagree, I gave the prequels a chance, I didn't start bashing them until I saw all 3. I stood by TPM & AOTC for 5 years saying it will all come together when ROTS makes the whole trilogy work. Now I feel the opposite, ROTS is so much better than TPM & AOTC, I will never watch them again, and atleast Lucas made a good movie on this one, which makes myself notice how average the first two prequels are.

The PT, after it is all said and done, has made me realize how good the original & ESB are. I have always said that ROTJ, is my least favorite of the OT, cause you can see the first crack of kiddiness with the Ewoks, but when I was growing up, it was my favorite? When I was growing up, ESB was too dark for me as an 7 year old, and was my least favorite of the saga, but now 20 years later, those movies have flipped. So if you're talking about nostalga, I should still love ROTJ?

The reason why I think the original & ESB are great, is because........They are great films! I watch them now and am amazed at how good they are. After ESB, the quality in SW never reached that level again. Sure ROTJ is very good, because we still had Luke, Leia, and Han, and The Emperor scenes and the space battle make the movie. But the prequels, to me personally, just don't reach the level of that ESB & the Original had.

Maybe Lucas hit lightning in a bottle twice, cause how many sequels ever rival a classic original? Maybe it is ESB fault, that it is so damn good, that every older fan is waiting for the high-quality of movie, and it is just so hard to duplicate. Maybe Lucas lost his hunger to make a classic movie, and a good Star Wars was enough to sell to the public. Or maybe Lucas just became to autonomous toward every decision, and you don't have someone to tell him Jar Jar ruins the movie.

It isn't nostalga, it is quality, that's what we think is wrong, and to me, the quality hasn't been gold since 1980.
Post
#153108
Topic
Watching in order 1-6 is screwing up the original SW for newcomers!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/153108/action/topic#153108
Time
Exactly. I really have enjoyed the EU. It certainly does, in my opinion , add so much more to the story than what is seen in the films. The OT, or even all six by themselves, are seen as part of a larger whole when put with the EU. In fact, I can't see how someone can call themselves a fan without appreciating, or at least trying to appreciate all parts of the story. As a wise man once said: "To understand the great mystery, you must study all of its aspects...

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That is not fair to say, because the EU books didn't come out until the early 90's, and we were all diehards fans of the OT through the 70's/80's. Now to each his own, if you like the EU and the story of Anakin Skywalker as a 6 part movie saga, that is great. But I consider myself a diehard SW fan for almost 30 years, and only love the OT, and I like ROTS, just for backstory purposes.

I don't think that Lucas ever imagined there would be such different types of SW fans since the Prequels came out. You have the OT diehards who hate the PT, you have the PT diehards, who don't understand the fascination with the original Star Wars, you have people in the middle who grew up with the OT, and still keep giving the PT a chance, but still feel underwhelmed. And then you have the EU/Anakin Skywalker Saga fans who love everything about SW, and can't get enough.

Back in 1983, when ROTJ was finished it film run, we were all just SW fans and never argued or insulted each other as many do all over different SW boards, we argued with people that were NOT fans of the SW, and defended the movies to a tilt. After the last 10 years, and what Lucas has done to the series, (OT SE changes, TPM & AOTC mediocre movies, constanstly contradicting himself), I find myself bashing Lucas rather than defending him in 1983 when I thought he was a genius.

It is kind of ironic that the man who created the movies I love and are my favorite of all-time is the same man who is screwing them up now.
Post
#153100
Topic
Watching in order 1-6 is screwing up the original SW for newcomers!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/153100/action/topic#153100
Time
That is the major difference between the older (you) and the newer (myself) fans. To you, the Luke story is most interesting, and the PT serves as a backstory. To me, the story is about the rise, fall, and redmption of Anakin Skywalker by his son, and the restoration of the Jedi Order by his son. (I also count the post-ROTJ stuff.) Both men are the main characters, I'll agree with that. But to me, the PT adds the depth to the story, rather than simply being the "backstory to the main story."

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The one thing I have noticed, is if you like the EU Books, and I have a friend that does, you tend to like the saga as 1-6, and are more interested in the whole galaxy of Star Wars, while liking the rise,fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker.

Personaly, I have never read an EU book, for some reason it just doesn't interest me, but the books continue on with the whole story, that some people see it as giving the saga more depth, and other feel it is just plain boring.
Post
#153086
Topic
Watching in order 1-6 is screwing up the original SW for newcomers!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/153086/action/topic#153086
Time
Originally posted by: Mr Bungle
The good thing if you disregard the Prequels you can still see it as Luke's story with Anakin's "story" taking a back seat!

And has been said, i am sure it was never Vader's story from the start,he was just the villian to begin with, you can tell that it was about Luke etc and George changed his mind to make it Vader's story.

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That is exactly how I feel now, and this is how I view the saga, and it is working for me: 4,5,6,3. I watch the OT, which I still love for Lukes story, cause that is what is was always about. Don't be fooled by Lucas, in an interview, and I wish I could find it, but he said he didn't realize til 1988 that it was the story of Anakin, that is 5 years after Jedi.

After I watch the OT, Episode III serves one purpose for me, not about Anakin fall, but just the questions I have been wondering since 1983:

How did Anakin become Vader?
How did The Emperor become the ruler of the Galaxy
What happened to Luke & Leias mom?
The Duel (Vader vs. Kenobi)?
The other Duel (Yoda vs. Emperor)
How were Luke & Leia split up?
When did Kenobi & Yoda go into exile?

All those questions for me are answered in ROTS, and TPM & AOTC are irrelevant to me. I could care less about Jar Jar, about The Podrace, Midiclorians, Jango Fett, Dex's Diner, and bunch of crummy lines that we have to hear from Anakin & Padme throughout AOTC.

Episode III answers the questions that I wanted, nothing more nothing less, it is just backround information, not this whole big picture of this 6 part story of Anakin Skywalker, BORING!!!!!

Before I watched TPM & AOTC out of obligation to the saga, and I believed what BS Lucas was feeding us, but after ROTS, those first two movies, with the exception of a few plot points, in which I could have read them in some EU book in 5 minutes about Padme & Anakin love affair, or Anakins mom dying, or how Anakin was a cute little kid.

So I view the saga this way, and it is working for me real well:

Star Wars
The Empire Strikes Back
Return of the Jedi
(For Backround Information for the OT) Revenge of the Sith

You notice in this order, I don't have to hear Jar Jar say one word! "Weesa Free!!!!!!!!!!!"
Post
#152685
Topic
Watching in order 1-6 is screwing up the original SW for newcomers!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/152685/action/topic#152685
Time
I was reading a thread on the force.net, and I am starting to notice a trend of newcomers that watch the saga, the so called way Lucas says we are suppose to watch it now, 1-6, is making Episode IV worse!

They watch 1-3, and love all the flash, the fast lightsaber duels, the new CG special effects, and watch it as the story of Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader, and the rise of Palpatine to The Emperor.

When they get to Episode IV, all of the sudden they are asking question that Lucas obviously didn't address when he made the movie back in 1977.

Where is The Emperor, he is the star of the prequels, and he is mentioned in one line in the movie?

Where is the inner thoughts of Vader about his loss of his wife, and why is the whole movie really not about him?

Why is the lightsaber battle so slow, and really nothing comparable to the prequels?

Why is the score totally different, except for the opening crawl, and just seems disjointed compared to the other three?

Why when they go to hyperspace, do they not go into that circle, and then go to hyperspace like the prequels?

Why does ObiWan call him Darth Vader in Episode IV, and when he called him Anakin throughout the Duel in Episode III, when he was clearly Darth Vader by then?

Why do the special effects seem so inferior when it is 20 years later in the saga?

All these questions have a simple answer: The movie was made in 1977, and Lucas didn't think have half of these ideas in mind when making the original Star Wars!

This is Exhibit A why a newcomer should watch the saga 4-6, then 1-3. All of these questions are constantly being asked through the movie, but don't need to, cause it was made as a single movie at the time. You should watch Episode IV first, enjoy it for it was : A space adventure about good vs. evil, and focus on Luke, Han, & Leia, because they are the true heroes of the movie. A person who watched 1-3 first, keeps focusing on Darth Vader, and his character isn't given ample screentime that it would today if Lucas would have made them with the true intenion of the saga being about Darth Vader.

You should watch Episode IV, and if you want more Star Wars, then be shown 5 & 6, and then you will understand this is a bigger story than what you saw in the original, but you won't be tainted for stuff to look for that just isn't there. And if you want more, there is a backstory that was filmed 20 years later, and it looks different cause of technology, even the Yoda character is different looking, but it is a backstory and it will give you many answers about Darth Vader you may have been wondering.

My ass that the saga should be watched 1-6! By Lucas putting this silly order in the heads of the new fans, he has now screwed up the one movie that is a classic they HE directed, The Original Star Wars.

GOOD JOB GEORGE!
Post
#152283
Topic
My theory on when O-OT will come (Just a theory)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/152283/action/topic#152283
Time
Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
Why would he make everybody happy in one big box set when he can make 3 different box sets and many people will buy more than one of them? Nice idea and I wish it was true, but I am anticipating a few more half-assed money sucking releases before we get the ultimate Star Wars release that you speak of.


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That is why mine is a theory, and in the end, your analysis is probably true
Post
#152074
Topic
My theory on when O-OT will come (Just a theory)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/152074/action/topic#152074
Time
I am thinking when Lucas releases the HD-DVD Version in 2007, just a rumor, but you hear it all over the internet. Here are my reasons why:

It will be a box set of all 6 movies, including updated scenes and effects of all 6 & plus the O-OT as a seamless branching version. It will also have the deleted scenes from the OT we didn't get in the 2004 DVD release, and new featurettes on the saga as a whole. This way Lucas covers all markets: He gets the fans who want a box set of all 6 movies (prequel gushers), the fans that were waiting for all 6 to be released (small group, but there are some out there that are still waiting), and all of the disgusted OT fans who are clamoring for the O-OT on DVD. This way, it will make everyone happy in one big box set, and it will cover all bases of SW fans.

The theory I think on why they will release the O-OT on DVD with the boxset is, they know many fans who are disgusted with the PT, won't be interested in a new boxset, but putting the O-OT with those updated movies, how can we resist?

It is just a theory, but as much as I bury Lucas, and feel he has lost it sometimes, he is a damn good marketer, and he knows when SW can make money, as Yoda would say, "Making money, that he has never lost the ability to do!"
Post
#151819
Topic
ROTS Extras: CGI TPM Yoda
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/151819/action/topic#151819
Time
Originally posted by: Mr Bungle
I am sure there will be a Special Edition of the Prequels

talking of the Special Features i found this amusing on the commentry.

"they had to go back and film Obi Wan picking up Anakins lightsabre after their duel- he later gives it to Luke in Episode IV- because "we kind of forgot about that"


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Also Lucas said he didn't realize why people were cheering anytime Tantive IV appeared on the screen. I don't know if it was McCallum who pointed it out to him, but come on George? It is the little things that make Star Wars great, and sometimes Lucas just totally misses the great things to tie the trilogies and instead puts in Jango Fett & Anakin building C-3PO! It baffles me sometimes that this is the same guy who made the original Star Wars.
Post
#151545
Topic
Watched ROTS DVD this weekend, now I see saga as 3,4,5,6
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/151545/action/topic#151545
Time
I got the ROTS DVD over the weekend a couple days early at a small video store. I saw it once in the theater, and before going in on May 19, I had expectations beyond belief, thinking it would be better than Empire Strikes Back. I walked out in May, liking it, but wondering what happened with all the prequels, as my expectation's game really led to disappointment overall.

This weekend I watched it with no expectations, just watching it with an open mind, and giving it a second chance. The verdict: I loved it! Still, it won't be as good as the OT, but I have finally gotten over that comparision anymore, but I have to say I really enjoyed this one, and now I feel though you have to know the backround of TPM & AOTC, they are total setup movies, and the true payoff of the prequels is in ROTS.

What I loved:

1. The whole atmosphere, it is dark, the music is eerie, and the 'sith' finally hits the fan (if you know what I mean)
2. No kiddy crap, with the exception of some light humor with R2-D2 in the beginning, and that is actually pretty funny cause it goes with the scene, this is serious and adult, a huge contrast to the other 2 prequels, especially TPM
3. NO JAR JAR! Expanding on #2, he doesn't say a word, I think he is in 2 scenes, but he doesn't talk, and to me that is a great thing!
4. Christenson is better in this one. I still don't think he is a great actor, but he is so much better in this one, cause he is turning evil, and there is no more whining. One thing I will give him is he definitely looks the part of Anakin Skywalker.
5. The romance is minimum and less cheesy than AOTC. There are two scenes that are alittle cheesy, but they are short scenes, and tolerable, and the chemistry between Portman and Christenson are better in this one.
6. Ian McDiarmid is awesome. He steals the movie, every scene he is in is totally enthralling, and he is the ultimate bad guy.
7. Ewan McGregor is great too. He is the other bright spot of the prequels, and gives Kenobi a true arc for all the films.
8. The last hour really ties in nicely to Episode IV. To see Tantive IV flying in space gives me goosebumps, to see Chewbacca, though underused is great, and Bail Organa finally gets some lines in this one.
9. This one had drama and emotion. The first two prequels had none of these to me, and that is why they are not memorable. Padme dying, though the reason why is suspect, is still emotional as they deliver the kids. Anakin burning up, saying , "I hate you!" is a very powerful moment. Kenobi yelling, "You were my brother, I loved you! You were the chosen one!" Very well done.
10. The last ten minutes, this is what we were waiting for. Construction of Vader, Yoda and Kenobi into exile, Emperor & Vader & Tarkin standing on the Star Destroyer together, and babies Luke & Leia being delivered to their foster parents.

There are a couple of problems that we have stated on the page about ROTS, but they are minor compared with MAJOR problems with TPM & AOTC. This movie had heart, drama, tension, and many tie ins to the OT, I really enjoyed it, and almost love it. Again, do I think it is better than any OT movies, no, but then again I don't think the PT ever had a chance.

But now I have to say, after seeing all 6 films, TPM & AOTC are so weak movies, and really just a mere setup, ROTS is the only prequel I will watch in the future along with 4,5,6. Maybe Lucas wanted ROTS to be the best with all the red meat in it, so we would remember the last SW movie like this, or maybe he miscalculated and put too much story in the final installment, I guess we'll never know.

I have bashed the prequels for 6 years now, and let me tell you they deserve every criticism, but I will give Lucas this one, ROTS is worthy to sit on my shelf with Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi. In the end, maybe we just wanted to see Anakin turning to Darth Vader, not all the exposition that led up to it.

What do you guys think.
Post
#150475
Topic
Return of the Jedi - was it what it was meant to be?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/150475/action/topic#150475
Time
Originally posted by: battlewars
i definitely think thats why he made the prequels, but i think he couldve made them more entertainingly, wouldnt that have ensured bigger profits?


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That is the ironic thing, he thought he had to make them kiddier to maximize his audience, but Lord of the Rings and Revenge of the Sith at a PG-13 Rating proved that it could make just as much money. Another miscalculation.
Post
#150284
Topic
Return of the Jedi - was it what it was meant to be?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/150284/action/topic#150284
Time
I remember seeing Lucas on Charlie Rose last year right before the DVD set came out, and he said something interesting.

(I am paraphrasing) Lucas said, "In the early 90's, I was faced with doing the Prequels or just going a totally different way for the movies I was going to make for the rest of my career. On one hand, I knew if I made the prequels, I would make enough money so I could be able to do whatever I wanted in the future."

In the early 90's, Lucas was still recovering from his divorce from Marcia, which he took a big hit financially, and Lucasfilm wasn't pretty much running even every year. Lucas figured, though it wasn't a sure bet, that another trilogy would make muchoo dollars, and he would finally be set for life, to make and afford any film he wanted to do.

Maybe that is the reason the first two prequels were geared to a younger (or childish) audience to make the most of the movie market? Lucas maybe was afraid to make an edgier movie like ESB, that it wouldn't maximize profits, and though TPM was mostly panned by critics, and so was AOTC, they both still made 900 & 650 million dollars worldwide, and that isn't counting toys, DVDs, etc. By the time he got to ROTS, though it was already a darker story, he was able to get a PG-13 rating, because the money was already made.

Just a thought? What do you guys think?
Post
#149824
Topic
"Like all creative minds, they need to be slapped down!"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/149824/action/topic#149824
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I don't know much about Joss Whedon, but damn this guy is right! And it is about time that someone in the hollywood community said the truth. I'm sure Spielberg and Coppola and Cameron all feel the same way about the PT, but cause they're friends with Lucas, it is sacred not to criticize, and I can sort of understand that.

My whole thing about Lucas is the ultimate irony. The man is a genius, but that genius also led to the average prequels. He made Star Wars, developed Star Wars, and deserves all the accolades that the success of Star Wars had garnered. But there was such a ensemble team that made them that much better than any other movie saga of all-time. Now the ensemble players don't deserve too much credit, but after they left you can feel the void in the following movies.

The ultimate ensemble cast was ESB. Lucas developed the story and Executive Produced. Lawrence Kasden wrote the great screenplay. Gary Kurtz was the producer on the set all day. Irvin Kershner was director who got great performances out of the actors, and made it the most realistic Star Wars movie. Ben Burtt was the sound designer that gave us the great sounds. And of course John Williams awesome score.

Now who is the only one who stayed for all 6 episodes: John Williams. Now the music of the prequels is great, and probably the least complained about by the fans. Ben Burtt went to editing in AOTC, and it shows, but the sounds are still awesome. Kershner left, and Marguard did a good job, but Lucas did an awful job of directing in the prequels, as most the actors seemed very flat. The dialogue mostly written by Lucas in the prequels, was terrible, and sure it was campy in the OT, but 10 times worse in the PT. Gary Kurtz was gone after ESB, and the kiddy factor slowly crept into the saga.

I don't who this Joss Whedon guy is, but damn he is 100% right on how to make a saga great, and how to ruin it.
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#149288
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Will GL start a trend of other classic films being changed?
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https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/149288/action/topic#149288
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I think Coppola is going to re-do The Godfather, Part I. He will film new scenes with Robert DeNiro, now in his late 50's, as he will match the age of Marlon Brando, who played Vito Corleone in the movie. This way you can see young DeNiro, as a flashback in Godfather Part II, and then for continuity reasons you can see an older DeNiro in Godfather Part I.

I think this would work just as well as re-editing Anakin in ROTJ for continuity sake


Then you can have every Godfather fan up in arms just like every Star Wars fan for the changes in their movies.

And Lucas and Coppola can say this is our vision, and now The Godfather and the Classic OT are finally finished!


Hopefull Lucas doesn't give his buddy Coppola any ideas!


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#148643
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Can you imagine Han fighting Luke, that is what the duel in ROTS should have felt like.
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https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/148643/action/topic#148643
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I have to agree but it doesnt excuse the crap like Jar Jar Caotain Tarpals and two headed pod race announcers etc and pointless plot points like Qui-Gonn finding Anakin, Anakin building 3p0 etc (which leave possible inconsistencies and things up to the viewers interpretation) etc,Text


In that respect that is where I think Lucas has lost alittle of his edge toward moviemaking. If you watch ESB, then watch TPM, you wonder if it is the same saga sometimes? Sure, ESB is dark, and TPM is the lighthearted before everything goes to hell, but Lucas definitley miscalculated TPM, and some of AOTC with utter silliness that didn't need to be in the movie.

The Two headed announcer, all of Jar Jar, the fart jokes, Dex in AOTC, what was that all about? And C-3PO cracking jokes during the Clone Wars! Come on, this should have been a serious battle, instead you have C-3PO throwing awful one-liners every three minutes.

The reason these are bad, is even the Prequel defenders say, "Yeah the dialogue is bad, the love story isn't that great, and Jar Jar is overdone, but I still like the movies. If the people that hate the movies see it, and the people who like the movies see it, how come Lucas couldn't.

My opinion is after ESB, we were fully hitched to Star Wars, and everything he put out were gonna show up for it. Remember he told Kershner before filming ESB, "This has to be better than the original, if it isn't, there are no more movies." That to me showed that Lucas was determined to put out an A+ product, that resembled nothing of the original movie, but would still be as great.

Then in ROTJ, and I do still love it, but it is not as good as the Star Wars & ESB, the movie has recycled plots, character dialogue which is not as crisp as ESB, and the Ewoks! The ending is great, and that is what makes the movie. But you could definitely see that Lucas was satisfied with a product that was very good, rather than great.

In the PT, I think he felt the same way. I will make something good, but I am not going the extra mile to make it great, because in the end Star Wars is going to make a boat load of money.

Now this is my opinion, but definitely Lucas hasn't had the hunger to make a great Star Wars film in 25 years, oh well.
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#148629
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Can you imagine Han fighting Luke, that is what the duel in ROTS should have felt like.
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https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/148629/action/topic#148629
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Originally posted by: Shimraa
impossible, this could not have happened no matter how hard gorge tried, why because we knew it was coming. i think it would have be soooooooo much better if lucas had kept everything about the PT quite from the begining. so that no one knew about the clone wars, or the anakin obiwan battle, or any of that. so much fo the PT was ruined by the fact that people already knew so many key plot points, think for a second how good the PT would have been if boom outta nowhere the clone wars started in AOTCs, no one would ahve known about it and everyone would been like holy shit a galactic waar OMG. or when anakin started fighting Obiwan, if the fact that obiwan had beat anakin but a volcano and left him for dead wasnt know think about how that scene would have been. that right there is lucas's big mistake. if the PT was 100% peoples imagination and stuff they got from the OT the PT would have been so much better. cause you would have had "I AM YOUR FATHER" surprises in there.


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I definitely agree with your post, the biggest achilles heel of the prequels is that we knew the story. While your watching TPM, you knew that ObiWan, Padme, little Anakin, Palpatine, and Yoda were in no real sense of danger, because we knew, except for Padme's fate, they would be in Episode IV.

The biggest challenge Lucas faced was our imagination. We all had an idea of how Anakin turns to Darth Vader, how the duel would be, how they would wisk Luke & Leia away to their foster parents, how the Jedi would be taken out one by one, and how Yoda and Kenobi would go into hiding. That is pretty much the main facts of the prequels, where are the suprises?

Sure, the PT could have been better, with Lucas letting go from TOTAL control of the PT, and more like he did in the OT. Sure the kiddiness factor could have been toned down in the TPM, and well I won't defend Jar Jar, that was just a mistake.

I think the real reason the PT would never be as good was the characters. No matter if Lucas did things many different ways than the way he filmed these movies, Luke, Leia, and Han Solo are just lovable characters that cannot be matched. They had PERFECT chemistry, and that was like lightning in a bottle. The PT was about ObiWan, Padme, and Anakin, even if they were cast to perfection I still don't think we would have loved them as much as the OT big 3.
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#148360
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If George had only changed Special effects for the SE and DVD, would people have complained as much?
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https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/148360/action/topic#148360
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Kinda agree with everyone, if it was just effects, I don't have a problem with it. But when it comes to additional scenes, or change/editing a scene, it is insulting, and makes me want O-OT even more. Lucas could have just really updated the effects in the original Star Wars, and slightly touched ESB & ROTJ and we all would have 'lived' with these SE Editions. But again, Lucas has miscalculated his original fanbase.
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#147633
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Interested in everyones opinion when ROTS DVD Comes after Nov 1
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https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/147633/action/topic#147633
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Originally posted by: Krycek87
Star Wars is Star Wars. I fall under three. Aside from Jar-Jar, the bad love scens,the awful dialogue, greedo shooting first, the errors in cloud city, and the ewoks, in the end I will always love these films no matter how bad some moments are. So yeah, all the movies have their faults, but it wont bother me to watch all six. Yeah the OT was better, but Sith redeemed some of the PT at the end.


Text


I started this topic, but you 100% summed up the way I feel about the saga. My only conflict I have with myself, is are we shortchanging ourselves when we say how we love the OT, and the fact that is better, and though it is Star Wars we put up with all the bad crap from the PT. In a sense I will always watch them because they are Star Wars, but on the other hand I am quick to acknowledge how mediocre, especially TPM & AOTC is cause they are Star Wars.

It is the most ironic of ironies. The OT we defended because we loved those movies, and nobody was going to question them, because they were the best movies growing up. Now we defend the PT only because they are a fraction of what use to be a great saga, partly because it has the name Star Wars at the start of each movie. Weird, isn't it.
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#147355
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Interested in everyones opinion when ROTS DVD Comes after Nov 1
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https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/147355/action/topic#147355
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I am very interested to see everyones opinion when Episode III DVD comes out after November 1st.

I grew up and loved the OT, and was very letdown by the first two prequels. They had great moments that were very entertaining, but there were BAD moments which I can't forget which I think have tainted Lucas' new movies and definitely seperated them from the OT.

I saw ROTS twice in the theater, and I liked it alot. It definitely was the best prequel, in a sense it was lightyears better than TPM & AOTC. I really thought it would equal the OT movies, but unfortunately it didin't, and that is where I was letdown. Rather than the first two prequels, this movie had more BETTER moments than bad moments, so I don't bury this one like the others. But it still had its share of bad: The quick turn, Padme dying of giving up, and NOOOOOOOOO!

When I get the DVD in 3 weeks, I will watch it a couple of times and see how it holds up. I am really hoping that I like it alot more now after the dust settles, and now my expectations of the prequels are alittle lower overall.

There are three ways we can all go after watching ROTS:

1. Realizing it is better than TPM & AOTC, but overall is not satisfying, and in a sense writing off the prequels, and coming to the conclusion that Star Wars is Episode IV, V, VI and that is it.

2. Realizing it is a really good Star Wars movie, and it is so much better than TPM & AOTC, that I really won't watch them anymore, and the saga will be III, IV, V, VI.

3. Being satisfied with the movie, that you finally accept the prequels for what they are. You accept the cringing moments, but overall it is Star Wars, and yes, the PT could have been better, 6 Star Wars episodes are better than 3. Even though you feel the OT is better, you will see the saga as I, II, III, IV, V, VI.

Hopefully I can fall into Category # 3, but I don't know, I waver too much on the prequels, and cant get past Jar Jar sometimes, so I will probably fall into Category # 2. But then again it may not hold up, and I will be fed up and feel the last 10 years were a waste, and go back to old days of wondering why Darth Vader turned to the darkside, maybe it was funner that way.

Which category do you think you'll fall under?
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#147129
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NOOOOOOOO!!! Electrodes, please!!!
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https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/147129/action/topic#147129
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Here is my list for the most cringeworthy moments of the prequels:

1. Everytime Jar Jar speaks (It still annoys me to this day!)

2. The fireplace scene between Anakin & Padme
"You are in my very soul!" -Anakin
"Tell me, I will do anything for you!" -Anakin
"I can't breathe!" -Anakin

Now I have to think of those lines everytime Vader is choking some Admiral in ESB! The biggest badass in one trilogy and the biggest wuss in another!

3. Anakin & Padme in ROTS'
"I love you" Padme, "No, I love you more!" BARF!

4. Everytime Boss Nass shakes his mouth after talking in TPM! That movie should be made for a 3 year old!

5. I asked Darth Vader in ROTS should Lucas have made the prequels?
He replied, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
Then he said, "Trust me, I will be alot cooler of a character in the next 3 movies!"