CO

User Group: Members
Join date: 25-Jul-2005
Last activity: 22-Apr-2019
Posts: 1,568

Post History

Post: #171708
Topic: Have you guys seen that Comcast commercial?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/171708/action/topic#171708
Time: 20-Jan-2006 9:19 AM

Please Lucas & Spielberg, say no to Indiana Jones IV!

There is no need to make another Indy movie, The Last Crusade they ride off in the sunset, and that is a perfect ending to a good trilogy. The first one is a classic, the other two are good sequels, and thats it.

If I go by anything of the PT and Godfather III, is when you make movies of a series 15 years apart, it never works, it's just too much time, and the director usually changes for the worst. Coppola, Lucas, DePalma, guys like this lose their drive that they have as young directors, and don't have the hunger they did when they made their classics in the 70's. Is it a coincidence that the best films of Lucas & Coppola are their first few efforts?

Sometimes when they are up again huge odds to finish a movie, or don't have the budget they would like, just as Coppola was about to get fired making The Godfather, and how he had a heart attack trying to finish Apocalypse Now, and how Lucas almost had a nervous breakdown shooting the original SW, and Spielberg couldn't get the shark to work in Jaws, that is why those movies are great. Now with their unlimited budgets, and secure lifestyle, and raising kids makes that director lose that edge.

Sure Spielberg still is great, and of course he would direct Indy IV, so I know it won't suck like TPM did, but it still isn't needed, I had the memories of SW ending on Endor, and that was ruined by the PT, let me remember Indy by Harrision Ford & Connery riding off in the sunset. Come on George, don't ruin this trilogy too! You had SW backlash, do you want a whole slew of Indy fans to hate you now?

Post: #171206
Topic: Does George Lucas have any redeeming qualities?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/171206/action/topic#171206
Time: 18-Jan-2006 2:47 PM

I am pretty sure is oldest daughter is not adopted from George/Marcia marriage, but I know for a fact Lucas adopted his other daughter and son after they got a divorce.

His son is the young jedi who gets shot down by the Clones trying to save Bail Organa in ROTS.

I know his son wanted to ignite his lightsaber first, but Lucas wouldn't allow him, so he would resemble SE Han Solo

Post: #170923
Topic: Any GOOD memories of the PT?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/170923/action/topic#170923
Time: 17-Jan-2006 8:19 AM

Originally posted by: Mr Bungle
Im kinda of sad i never experienced TPM at the cinema, but maybe glad in one way i didnt experience the dissapointment of others if i did see it at the cinema.

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I remember the day before TPM came out, Leonard Maltin was on Entertainment Tonight and he was one of the first reviewers to see the film, and I'll never forget what he said:

Interviewer: Leonard, you saw TPM last night, how was it?

Maltin: Uhh..............it wasn't bad, uhh.......................it's not a bad film. (Saying it very reluctantly)

Interviewer: Is it like the old Star Wars movies?

Maltin: It's definitely different than what people may expect.

I remember watching that and saying to myself, "I have a bad feeling about this." Oh shit, something is not right about this film.

Remember guys, before TPM came out, it wasn't fashionable to bash Lucas, once the movie came out, and alot of fans were way disappointed, that is when everyone started burying it, cause it deserved it. But if look at interviews done before it came out, they never buried it, cause Lucas was still god at that time. By AOTC, reviewers were going to bury the film if they felt, Lucas was not untouchable anymore.

Post: #170738
Topic: what'a good age to introduce kids to star wars??
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/170738/action/topic#170738
Time: 16-Jan-2006 1:07 PM

Getting back to the topic:

I think 5 years old is a good age to start, I was that age when I saw the original in '77. I have twin 5 year old nephews and they love SW, absolutely love it. But right now they like the action, and the droids. They love R2-D2, especially in the original when the Jawas shoot him and he falls straight down, they like to mimic that on the floor, by falling over.

When they watch the PT, and the romance, they kinda giggle, and think its icky, being that their young boys. But then again, I had the same reaction of Padme/Anakin when I saw it in 2002 at the age of 29, so go figure!

I really think they should watch the original first, cause that is the funnest movie of the 6. They'll love the characters, be scared of Vader, and enjoy the beginning with the droids walking on Tatooine. I guess everyone here should mimic their first experience in SW, because the fact that were all still talking about it, atleast the OT, means if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Post: #170660
Topic: I don't care one bit about the fate of prequel characters
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/170660/action/topic#170660
Time: 16-Jan-2006 10:18 AM

Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi

It wasn't really the way in which it was pulled off by Hayden and Natalie that affected me, but more of what the point of those parts were. And the music helped a great deal to flesh out the meaning of the scenes. When I saw AOTC on May 16, 2002, I wasn't concerned about the acting, I was concerned about the story. And to me, AOTC delivered more than I had expected story-wise. Yeah, I know, that may sound odd to some, but that's how I've always felt about AOTC.

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I don't begrudge anyone for crying at the end of ROTS, cause the way ROTS plays out, we should cry, it is just sad that more of us didn't cry. (No Pun Intended) I put the blame on Lucas for that one, cause those characters didn't grip us enough to care in the end. I'm sure many SW fans cried and thought it was a tragic scene, and probably many just sat there and said to Anakin and Padme as they met their fates, "See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya!"

In the end, everyone likes different movies for different reasons, so laughing at someone for crying at a certain scene is pointless, but the fact that we are all SW fans, and alot of us didn't care about the PT characters really shows how Lucas really dropped the ball on this trilogy. He created such lovable characters in the OT, and for three movies you follow them, and that was the glue to the OT, the effects, the action, and the mythology were just gravy.

But for the PT, you have 2 movies of Hayden, 1 movie of Jake, 2 movies of McGregor as the main character and 1 as a minor character, 1 movie of Neeson, the only one who truly had a major role in all 3 movies is Portman, and when she dies, not many here really cared? It is another PT problem where everything is all over the place. If Lucas gave us 3 solid movies of Portman, McGregor, and Christenson as the leads in each movie, just like Ford, Fisher, and Hammill, they may have not been loved as much as the OT characters, but I guarantee it would have worked a hell of alot better than we feel now.

Post: #170614
Topic: I don't care one bit about the fate of prequel characters
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/170614/action/topic#170614
Time: 16-Jan-2006 8:12 AM

Originally posted by: Kaal-Jhyy
Ok, but there's one important thing you don't understand.
Star Wars is Lucas' creation, and for him, every new "enhanced" version is some sort of update, not an alternate version. From his point of view, it's normal that he doesn't want to release the O-OT on DVD.
But don't misunderstand me, I'd love to have the O-OT on an official DVD too!

And you're claiming that Lucas considers Star Wars a commercial product and "he fully depended on the commercial momentum the OT still had". If it was the case, don't you think that he would already have released every movie in several versions (I'm talking about DVDs)? From a purely commercial point of view, it would be very fructuous to release the original versions of the movies (including TPM and AOTC), as well as the "final" versions, and maybe the OT SE. In this case, many fans would have bough 2 or 3 different versions of the same movies -> pretty commercial, isn't it?

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There are two ways of looking at Lucas not releasing the O-OT on DVD:

1. He is totally flipped his lid, and will keep making changes upon changes in every new release and it is to the point of being laughable.

2. He is making the public wait for the O-OT on purpose, if we got a seamless branching DVD in 2004 with SE & O-OT, they would be no demand for them anymore. Alot of older fans would be done with buying SW. But if Lucas releases the 6 box set in 2007 this time with all 6 movies, and then a seamless branching O-OT with it, then he could milk everyone of us who don't love the PT to buy this huge box set where we only like half the movies. So anyone who bought the 2004 SE will definitely have to rebuy the O-OT.

Either Lucas is genius if he does this, or he is gone totally bonkers and doesn't care. We'll wait and see........

Post: #170591
Topic: Seamless branching O-OT and SE disc
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/170591/action/topic#170591
Time: 16-Jan-2006 6:23 AM

I really think if Lucas just took out these scenes and kept the effect changes, I would be happy:

1. Jabba in ANH (New Scene)

2. Greedo Shooting First in ANH (changed scene)

3. Take out extended scene of Luke/Kenobi entering Mos Eisley

4. New Wampa Monster in ESB after it get his hand chopped off

5. Vader going to his shuttle on cloud city, and then entering star destroyer

6. Old Emperor in ESB hologram talking to Vader

7. New Song in Jabbas Palace

8. Old Ending and Song in ROTJ, and bring back Sebastian Shaw.

Take these scenes out, and keep the SE effects in, and you zero complaints from me.

Post: #170588
Topic: I don't care one bit about the fate of prequel characters
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/170588/action/topic#170588
Time: 16-Jan-2006 6:06 AM

Originally posted by: Kaal-Jhyy

Originally posted by: battlewars
lucas just doesnt take star wars as seriously as his fans do, which sucks

Well, that's all the point. I've always though that hardcore (OT) fans take Star Wars really too seriously... just my opinion...

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I think the seriousness or hatred toward Lucas is directly linked to the frustration of not releasing the originals. Sure people take it too far in calling Lucas several names that are inappropriate, but it's the internet. By Lucas not releasing the originals he has done two things to the fanbase.

1. He has split them generationally now after completing the PT. Before you could argue which is better Star Wars or ESB? ESB or ROTJ? Now it is utter hatred toward the other side, as Anakin said in ROTS, "Either you're with me, or your my enemy!" Many younger fans blindly follow Lucas in anything he says or does, and many older fans totally disdain the guy now, and you literally have SW web pages made for OT lovers, where PT lovers are in the minority, and vice versa. Even Lucas acknowledges there is a over 25 fanbase and an under 25 fanbase.

2. By not releasing the O-OT, the older fan feels disrespected, and that has fueled more hatred toward Lucas. For 20 years older fans bought every action figure, every VHS release and re-release box set, and probably have 3 or 4 versions of it, but we can't get one stinkin DVD set of the O-OT? And it isn't even the 1997 version, it is SE OT 3.0 version of 2004, where you have Hayden as a force ghost in ROTJ now. Lucas says statements that , "Sorry you fell in love with a 25% completed film" when talking about the original and "If you wan't the O-OT go buy the VHS, I am not putting money to re-do them." Older fans here that and Lucas is just giving us the finger, and doesn't care because he has such a huge base now, he can do whatever he wants.

I guarantee you if he released the O-OT, the debates of Han shooting first, and Hayden as a force ghost will fall by the waste side, cause we will have the movies we grew up with, and if Lucas changes them, who really cares anymore? That would also temper the hatred for the PT too, as people would identify with the O-OT again, and try to put the PT in the past, as saying, "Either take it or leave it."

For me, if I get the O-OT on DVD, you will never hear from me about SW again, that will be closure, and the future of SW and what Lucas does will not concern me one bit. But as long as I keep coming to this site everyday, and there isn't an announcement on the O-OT on DVD, my frustration toward Lucas will never die, and I can take them out in these forums here.

Post: #170451
Topic: I don't care one bit about the fate of prequel characters
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/170451/action/topic#170451
Time: 15-Jan-2006 3:07 PM

The worst part of the ending, was the fact that I didn't read any spoilers, I was waiting for Padme to go into hiding with Leia, as per Luke/Leia's conversation in ROTJ when Leia said, "She died while I was very young."

When she died, I was like WTF? So I started searching for answers, maybe Leia was born first, my friend said nope. Well it was Leia that she held right? Nope, she touched Luke. Than how the hell does Leia remember Padme? Then I started reading on the internet Force memories.............and that is when I really disliked that scene even more.

Lucas could have made a powerful scene, where Yoda and Kenobi confront Padme and tell her she must give up one child just in case Vader or The Emperor find her just to keep one baby safe. You could then have this ultra dramatic scene where she chooses Leia, and as Kenobi takes Luke, and not telling where, Leia could be crying hysterically as they take her baby, but deep down she knows its the best decision. You could have Bail holding her back like the movie 'Sophies Choice' and that would have been just as dramatic.

The ending montage could have had Vader on The Imperial Ship next to Tarkin & Emperor, Padme holding Leia on Alderan as beautiful, but sad as Leia described in ROTJ, and Owen & Beru holding up Luke on Tatooine, that way everything makes sense, and you can still have the drama, but Lucas chose to change the story from 1983, that is why many oldtimers get mad.

Post: #170434
Topic: I don't care one bit about the fate of prequel characters
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/170434/action/topic#170434
Time: 15-Jan-2006 1:59 PM

Originally posted by: Mr Bungle
I felt a little sad the first couple of times through Order 66 especially for Yoda when he drops his cane, but I didnt feel a thing for Anakin or Padme, though a little for Obi Wan maybe, though i thought the actual ending and the montage was good.

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Mr. Bungle, I bet we were effected by the same things in the montage, nostalgia parts that tied to the OT, and the PT shouldn't have relied on this to affect us. Anakin and Padme should have been the parts that effected us the most, with her dying and Anakin being resulted to wearing a suit all their life, that was the reason for the PT, but the moments that we felt worked, bringing Leia to Alderran, and bringing Luke to Tatooine was there to just to show the viewer seeing it 1-6 where the future of the new characters are headed, not to have us feel nostalgic.

Again, it is sad, cause there are times that really work for me in the PT, the ones that tie into the OT, but that proves its failure in the end, cause it shouldn't rely on the OT , with the exception of Yoda, every character is different than they were in the OT. Kenobi is younger, and very different, The Emperor is more of a politician, and Vader isn't in the suit yet. The PT stars of the show were Padme & Anakin and it seems like most of us liked the ending cause it showed Luke & Leia at their foster homes, in the end if thats what worked for us, than Lucas really failed.

Post: #170258
Topic: Any GOOD memories of the PT?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/170258/action/topic#170258
Time: 14-Jan-2006 2:04 PM

Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
No, she already knew that. It was part of the images and feelins she had of her.

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Good comback Adam

The images and feelings toward losing the will to live is Lucas via 2005 story, Leia'ss mom living and taking her daughter into hiding as Leia remembered her as beautiful but sad was Lucas via 1983 story.

Take you pick.............................

Post: #170229
Topic: Any GOOD memories of the PT?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/170229/action/topic#170229
Time: 14-Jan-2006 10:54 AM

Originally posted by: JennyS1138
My best prequel memory was seeing one of the charity screenings, in Washington DC

Getting to see the movie a week in advance with Carrie Fisher in the audience was AMAZING. Plus Debbie Reynolds was there too. How amazing was it to watch Princess Leia's birth scene with Leia herself in the room?!!!

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Was Carrie Fisher suprised her Star Wars mom lost the will to live? I would love to know her reaction to that one!

Post: #170228
Topic: Lucas was still reworking the turn scene after post production!
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/170228/action/topic#170228
Time: 14-Jan-2006 10:52 AM

Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
That is IF the story was ever about Vader/Anakin in the first place. Which the logical among us know it wasn't. Vader was, as said before, just a bad-ass bad guy.

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Good point, I guess I should say he should have had the main details of Vaders turn and how the whole scene went in 1994 when he began writing the prequels. There is just no excuse for reworking the key scene of the whole prequels, and not have atleast a clear vision of how it should go. To me that sums up my frustration with the PT sometimes.

Post: #170216
Topic: Lucas was still reworking the turn scene after post production!
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/170216/action/topic#170216
Time: 14-Jan-2006 9:07 AM

Originally posted by: battlewars
i cant believe the turning point of all the prequels and lucas wasnt sure about it, give me a break

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That sums it up Battlewars! This scene and the duel and the building of Vader should have been stamped in his mind in 1977, they should have been the backbone of the story, and everything else were written after that.

Post: #170215
Topic: I don't care one bit about the fate of prequel characters
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/170215/action/topic#170215
Time: 14-Jan-2006 9:05 AM

I think caring for characters is all up to the viewer in the end, but other than the quality of the movies, the charcters were the biggest failings of the PT.

The biggest mistake by Lucas was making 2 different Anakins because of the age jump. He is the reason we are watching these three movies, and when you want us to follow a boy in TPM, knowing that there will be a new actor to play Anakin for the next two, it is hard to invest your likings in him.

So for years fans wanted to know who Darth Vader as a human really was, and now you were asking us to like or love two different actors? To me any actor that is cast is always hit or miss, sometimes they can be dead on with the public, sometimes they revolt cause it is a bad choice.

I never truly cared for Anakin and Padme through the PT, and if the viewer can't care, you won't feel the tragedy that bestows them in ROTS. Now for fans that cared for them, ROTS is a powerful movie for them, but so many fans I know didn't either love or like the two main leads for many reasons.

We didn't get 3 movies of them. Because of Anakins age with starting the PT, the grownup Anakin that turns to Vader is only seen in 2 movies, and to me you lose that trilogy characters arc. Sometimes it takes one movie just to get to know the actor, and then the second they can establish themselves and find their footing, and the third movie really shine.

To me Hayden, although Lucas intentionally wanted it this way, was whiny and in the end unlikable in AOTC. I think he was much better in ROTS, but in some ways it was too late. If we had 3 movies of Hayden, the backlash of AOTC, and his unlikability wouldn't have been as bad.

Another failing for me personaly was the chemistry between the characters and mostly Hayden/Natalie. The romance just came across as forced, and again I go back to throwing it all into AOTC, instead of really developing it in TPM, and then let it drive the story for AOTC & ROTS.

To me either you have chemistry in movies or you don't, there isn't a button that clicks on when you yell action. Though I don't love Titanic, DiCaprio & Winslet had great chemistry, Cruise & Zellwegger had great chemistry in Jerry Maguire, and Crystal & Meg Ryan had great chemistry in When Harry Met Sally. There is no formula, you just put the two leads together and cross your fingers.

So, my biggest failing and why Lucas failed for me is at the end of ROTS, I should have been more emotional when the characters we followed for 3 movies all went south. Mace flew out of a window, ahh, I didn't really care, but he is still great in Pulp Fiction. The jedi were getting extinguished in Order 66, which was actually done well in the montage, but did I really know any of those jedi except the conehead guy? Padme loses the will to live? Wasn't she this strong willed women who just gave birth? And finally Anakin laying there legless burning up, I should have been in tears, and I was like thank god, put him out of his misery Kenobi! Kenobi was the only who really tugged at me at the end when he was yelling at Anakin, "You were my brother, Anakin." "You were the chosen one!" That gave me goosebumps, because Kenobi was the one true character you follow for three movies, and there no contradictory character hicups like that senator who lost the will to live. Kenobi was the one real character to me in the PT.

So again, I am not criticizing anyone for getting emotional in ROTS, to each his own, but for me Lucas failed cause there were some heavy moments at the end of ROTS that should have moved me, and unfortunately they didn't.

That to me is the biggest failure of the PT, in the end it is always about the characters.

Post: #169982
Topic: A possible version of Han Solo in ROTS
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/169982/action/topic#169982
Time: 13-Jan-2006 1:02 PM

Originally posted by: Invader Jenny
What pictures, CO? I see nothing.

Man, I actually wanted a Han Solo appearance, but not in that context. I thought he was a street kid growing up in the slums of the city. Like he was gonna try and rip off one of the Jedi, but he can't quite pick their pocket, kind of encounter. But oh well. I really don't pay that much attention to the PT anyway.

Text

I copy and pasted it from another website, and for some reason the pictures aren't copying just the text, but Adamwankenobi's picture is pretty much what the young Solo looked like.

Post: #169980
Topic: Lucas was still reworking the turn scene after post production!
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/169980/action/topic#169980
Time: 13-Jan-2006 1:00 PM

Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
So, to get back to the original point of this thread, do you think that the original version of the turn was handled better than the current version? With Anakin standing there? I'm not entirely sure myself, since I don't know all the details. I can forsee a way that it could have made his turn a bit more convincing, having him already confused enough to stay with Palpatine rather than run off. But that, too, would depend on other scenes in the movie that would set up the reason why he stayed behind.

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Would it have worked better, who knows, but my whole point is this whole scene should have been concrete from the start, or atleast pretty much set in stone on what happens. It is the reason for the whole PT, and Lucas is still wishy washy on how it occurs? It really makes you wonder if he really was making this stuff as he goes.

Post: #169968
Topic: A possible version of Han Solo in ROTS
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/169968/action/topic#169968
Time: 13-Jan-2006 12:11 PM

This is another idea from Making of Revenge of the Sith with Han Solo on Kashykk talking to Yoda. Thank god they didn't use this, cause with C-3PO being built by Anakin, and Uncle Owen owning C-3PO for 10 years and not remembering buying him later, and Jango being Boba Fetts dad, this would have been another roll the eyes moment from the PT. I am waiting for an idea of Lando Calrissean being the nephew of Mace Windu!

As with Boba Fett, Lucas also toyed with the idea of inserting another of his fans' favorite characters into EPISODE III: Han Solo. Of course, he would be much younger - only about ten years old. This idea made it into the rough draft of the screenplay. Concept art was approved, dialogue was written, and the character was inserted into the Kashyyyk battle scenes as a helpful kid who actually plays a role in finding the elusive General Grievous' location, to the delight of Jedi Master Yoda.

Iain McCaig is quoted in The Art of Revenge of the Sith as saying this about the cancelled cameo: "It's not in the script anymore, but we were told that Han Solo was on Kashyyyk and that he was being raised by Chewbacca. He's such a persnickety guy later on - he always has to have the best of everything - so I thought it'd be great if when he was a kid, he was an absolute slob."

Of course that slightly goes against the whole "Solo saved Chewbacca from slavery while in the navy" stuff, though I'm sure the Expanded Universe band-aid patrol would have whipped up some story to cover it up.

Here's an excerpt from the rough draft with ten-year-old Han Solo's line:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HAN SOLO
I found part of a transmitter droid
near the east bay... I think it's still
sending and receiving signals.

YODA
Good. Good. Track this we can back
to the source. Find General Grievous,
we might...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From there, Solo and Yoda were supposed to track the signal to Utapau, therefore locating Grievous. Yoda would then report to the council with Grievous' location which prompts Mace Windu to send Obi-Wan over with a bunch of clones in order to capture Grievous and end the war.

Unfortunately, by the time the first draft of the script was completed, Solo was dropped. To be quite honest, I think it was a good idea. There are enough random cameos in these films. Below are the only two pieces of concept art I could find that show what Solo might have looked like in the film. You can see them in The Art of Revenge of the Sith and The Making of Revenge of the Sith.

Post: #169955
Topic: Lucas was still reworking the turn scene after post production!
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/169955/action/topic#169955
Time: 13-Jan-2006 10:43 AM

This reminds me of reading about George's first intentions to have Obiwan the "main" jedi in TPM for the first act. Then, he meets Quigon at Coruscant I read it here. For a guy that professes that he wants his "original vision" to be seen he does change it a lot.

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That idea still steams me about having ObiWan as a secondary character in TPM. Making QuiGon the lead makes the movie all the more irrelevant in the grand scheme of the saga. If Lucas atleast did the supposed force ghost scene with QuiGon in ROTS, it would atleast give some relevance to his character, that he was the was the one who figured out the trick, but we get one stinkin line from Yoda, so Lucas could check off another OT tie-in in the last 20 minutes of the movie.

Kenobi should have found Anakin, and their relationship should have been central to Episode I, thus you wouldn't have to keep showing their friendship in AOTC & ROTS just so people know they are pals. Every relationship should have been set up in TPM, that would give two movies to advance the plot, instead Lucas has main characters QuiGon & Jar Jar who take up major screen time in the movie, and Anakin/Kenobi are secondary until AOTC.

Post: #169917
Topic: Lucas was still reworking the turn scene after post production!
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/169917/action/topic#169917
Time: 13-Jan-2006 8:08 AM

This is a essay on the mace/palps scene where Anakins turns, and how it was much different than what was originally filmed in 2003. I guess that is my biggest problem with the turn, and why so many people dislike it because this whole scene Lucas should have had in mind before writing the PT. He shouldn't have been re-working this crucial scenes in post-production, this is the key to the movie! It is an interesting read on how it was first filmed, and may explain why Anakins actions as he turns come off as just plain awkward, when it should have been the crowning jewel of the PT:

It explains that Anakin was actually there when Mace goes to arrest Palps, and actually takes Palps side before anything happens, here is the rest of the article:

Homing Beacon #139 (June 23, 2005)

It's one of the fieriest debates of online fan forums: when Palpatine was cornered in his office's giant window-frame, was he really overpowered by Mace? Or was he faking to lure Anakin? Could Mace really have gotten the upper hand on the Sith Lord?

George Lucas is the ultimate keeper of the true answer, and he's not telling... yet, anyway. If you had asked me in the Summer of '03, when the sequence was first shot, I would have had a solid answer. But, if you asked me in the Fall of '04, when the sequence was re-shot, well... for those who want to debate, it's best to know more of the story of how this scene came to be.

This entire sequence changed significantly during postproduction. What we witnessed in Sydney told a different story. Anakin did not earn Mace's trust by ratting out Sidious right away. He did not agonize over his decisions while sitting alone in the Jedi Council chamber. He did not rush in at the last minute to witness a questionable balance of power. Instead, he stayed at Palpatine's side, in the Chancellor's private office, as Mace and his posse of Jedi barged in.

"Stand behind me," ordered Mace, in Sam Jackson's demanding tones. But Anakin didn't budge. Instead, he watched passively as Palpatine used the Force to snatch Anakin's lightsaber from his belt and attacks Mace and the Jedi. There's ample evidence of this original version for those with sharp eyes and behind-the-scenes photos. Heck, even Hasbro action figures with Palpatine packaged with Anakin's lightsaber got out there in the initial shipments.

So, if Sidious' entire duel played out before Anakin's stunned eyes, I'd be inclined to think that his fall was just for show. This changed after a screening George Lucas held for a few key colleagues. Their reactions underscored the shortcomings of the way this duel was constructed. Anakin's inaction was hard to justify cinematically. "The story was there, but it wasn't clear," said Lucas at the time it came to rebuild this scene. "It was too abstract. We opened up that part and looked at what we could do."

When word of the change came down, the keepers of continuities started carefully tracking the evolving consequences. Palpatine had two lightsabers, then, since he loses this one in the duel with Mace. I still have in my inbox a tentative email from one of the authors asking, "um, have we figured out yet whose lightsaber Palpatine uses in the fight with the Jedi?"

At first, it was feared it was impossible to CG the small svelte-handled weapon over Anakin's relatively chunky handle, but nonetheless, that was the lightsaber given to McDiarmid for the pickup photography. The shots of Palpatine rising from his chair and extending the weapon were reshot. The bulk of the duel between Sidious and Mace stayed from principal photography, except for a new touch -- a kick to Palpatine's face, done with stunt double Michael Byrne. This was shot on a partial set of just a piece of window-frame on Friday, August 27.

So... with this revised duel, if Sidious threw the fight, it places an awful lot of faith on Anakin's timing ...and he suffered a kicked-in face to boot. For what it's worth to those arguing, I doubt there's anyone who thinks Palpatine's serious when he claims he's too weak. That's obviously a lie. But was the fall into the corner that preceded his pleas for help a lie as well?

What else changed in this scene? There are a few more interesting details, particularly where it moved in the sequencing of the story. But that will have to wait for another entry.

Post: #169901
Topic: Who saw Lucas's speech at Peoples Choice Awards?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/169901/action/topic#169901
Time: 13-Jan-2006 6:46 AM

Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
Actually, most fans don't feel that way, from what I've read. ANH isn't even supposed to be about "Anakin's struggle." No, Anakin is dead. It's supposed to be about Vader's position in the empire and is supposed to show him being controlled by higher up members of the empire. He is supposed to be portrayed as heartless and tyranical. And it does a pretty good job of showing that, IMHO. I mean, someone would have to be pretty dumb to think that ANH shows, or is even supposed to show, his "struggles." The idea introduced in ROTS is that the Emperor had created a monster who was no longer the good man Anakin Skywalker was. There was no "struggle" in the ways that he had as Anakin. And no, ROTS does not diminish the greatness of ANH.

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I agree not all fans are like that, but many new fans watching it in order 1-6 have said that ANH isn't as great as the other movies. They go from Episode III to IV and say: The lightsaber duel between Vader/Kenobi is slow compared to the PT. I wanted to see more Yoda & Emperor, they were the stars of the PT. The effects are very outdated, even the SE, it just seems old in alot of places. The music is different than most episodes, where is the imperial march? It moves very slow in some places compared to the PT.

Now, as I said, not every new fan is like this, but you have to understand everyone of us here watched ANH first, so there were no comparisons, no where is the imperial march, no the lightsaber duel is lame, we watched it in a sense as a standalone movie like it was meant to be, and sure everyone here didn't see it in 1977, but even though they knew there were two more movies after it, they still watched in the context as the first movie. Now newer fans, or fans seeing it the first time, are watching it as #4, and it is the only one of the six that don't fit in when watching it in the middle. But Lucas says to new fans that are meant to be watched 1-6, so they will, they don't know the history of SW.

There is a whole section on TFN.com, which is mostly PT fans, so you can get the view of the newer fan, and it has one forum of 'Watching SW in sequence' and almost ever fan who has written in showing the saga 1-6 to a new SW fan, has said that ANH to them was alright, and felt ESB & ROTJ were alot better because they showed more of the struggle between Luke & Vader, where ANH doesn't have that in it, cause it wasn't made that way.

Let me put it this way, if you are watching the saga now a newcomer, and you hear the story is about Anakin Skywalker, a 6 part story about his rise, fall, and redemption, and you watch the PT, where he is front and center the central figure of each movie, then you get to Episode IV, and he is just a really cool bad guy, who is a more of a secondary character, you won't watch the movie in the right context. That is why they are enjoying ESB & ROTJ more, because the story of Anakin was finally cemented by Lucas as decided to take the saga in that direction. ANH is going from a classic to us, even you Adam cause you saw it as #1, to a so-so SW movie by new fans, and that is a shame, cause they should see it in the context that we did.

Post: #169738
Topic: Who saw Lucas's speech at Peoples Choice Awards?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/169738/action/topic#169738
Time: 12-Jan-2006 1:23 PM

The year before, Rocky won Best Picture, and that is the ultimate feel good movie. Star Wars was nominated the next year and lost out to Annie Hall, partly because it was one of those years that Woody Allen was due for an Academy Award. Now Annie Hall is a great movie, but Lucas should have atleast won Best Director, for what SW was able to put on screen.

People forget that Star Wars, the original, was nominated cause its just a great movie. (Period)

I have been saying this ever since ROTS came out on DVD, and everyone can watch them now 1-6, the original SW is getting diminished because alot of newer fans are watching it as Episode IV, with the context of Anakins struggle, and it just aint there in the movie. All of us saw it as the first movie in the series, without context of who was related to who, and that is why it was a classic by fans until the last few years.

Can anyone explain why a movie is a classic for 25 years, and then the PT is made, and all of the sudden it goes from the first film in the series to the fourth, and many newer fans feel it is inferior, and doesn't totally fit with the other movies cause it's not centered around Vader?

The movie hasn't changed, just the context, and I have always said, Lucas has screwed up the one classic SW movie he directed. Good job George.

Post: #169443
Topic: Who saw Lucas's speech at Peoples Choice Awards?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/169443/action/topic#169443
Time: 11-Jan-2006 7:22 AM

This is Lucas exact speech word for word I found on the internet:

"Thank you. Thank you all. This is a very, very important award for me. Star Wars, oddly enough, doesn't really get that many awards. I'm not a big favorite with the critics, but who listens to them? I'm not a big industry favorite either, but of course they are a bunch of studio executives. The most important people for any filmmaker, the reason that I make films, is for you! The audience rules! Thank you. Thank you very much!"

Post: #169356
Topic: Who saw Lucas's speech at Peoples Choice Awards?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/169356/action/topic#169356
Time: 10-Jan-2006 10:12 PM

ROTS won best movie at Peoples Choice Awards, and Lucas was there to receive it:

He was there with his daughter, and seems like a really good family man and that is why I like him, until........he goes into his usually SW acceptance speech......

"I know Star Wars has never won that many awards. (Pause) "And has never been loved by the critics." (Pause, to get a couple of applause.) "Critics have not been my biggest fans." (more applause) "They are usually controlled by the Studios" (Pause) "The reason I make these movies......is for the fans!" (Loud applause)

This is vintage Lucas, aww shucks, every fan loves these movies, just the critics hate them, and that is why we don't win awards. The last time I checked the original SW was nominated for 10 Academy Awards, and was nominated in the big categories: Best Picture, Best Director, and Alec Guiness for Best Supporting Actor, thats right an actor was nominated for his performance in a SW movie, because they usually say the OT performances were just as bad as the PT ones. Star Wars took home 7 awards that night, while being the #1 movie at the box office in 1977.

Message to George: Yeah, there are always critics who don't love every movie, that is natural, but you made that classic one in 1977, which was loved by critics, fans, and the studios, and do you know why? It's a great movie!

And when you said you do it for the fans at the end of your speech, the only ones you keep forgetting are the millions of fans from 1977-83 who can't see those original films anymore on DVD. Sometimes I believe Lucas has selective memory....

Post: #169342
Topic: 'Merge' Article- Lucas in his own words
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/169342/action/topic#169342
Time: 10-Jan-2006 8:17 PM

Originally posted by: Adamwankenobi
What are your preconceptions of the live-action TV series, CO?

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In all honesty, anything outside the movies never excited me, though one of my best friends, who is an OT generation fan, eats up everything outside of the movies.

For me, I can't get into the books, and even the Clone Wars cartoons I watched once, but wasn't interested. For the TV show, even if it is good, I probably won't watch it. As much of a SW fan I am, the movies are the only thing that interest me.