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CO

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Join date
25-Jul-2005
Last activity
22-Apr-2019
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1,568

Post History

Post
#219092
Topic
Moving in from the Basher's Sanctuary (TF.n)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/219092/action/topic#219092
Time
Originally posted by: Z6PO
Did you try to contact the owners of theforce.net? Are they aware of what's going on in their forums?

Clearly, it's the mods that should be banned! They must be replaced by moderate people.



Everybody on that site has that ideology of what I call: Prequel Lover, SE Lover, Star Wars '77 hater, and always up for new changes to the OT. So any complaint I have fall on deaf ears. I mean if you loved the SE, would you want to help someone who loves the O-OT?

They have done a focus group there with all the mods which is totally bogus, and I have to see if Harlock knows anything about it, but they were trying to make improvements to the forums, but I think in the end it was just pure window dressing to seem like it was fair.

I wish they would just be honest about their bias, and then I would take the site with a grain of salt knowing they don't want fans who love SW '77 there. The problem is they try to make it seem like they are fair to every SW fan and want all opinions, but clearly they only want someone who represents theirs.
Post
#218990
Topic
Moving in from the Basher's Sanctuary (TF.n)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218990/action/topic#218990
Time
Originally posted by: Harlock415
CO, I see you are waging what looks like a one man battle against the likes of Dude4c and others. Backup is on the way


Thanks Harlock, but I have given up fighting the fight over there, now my goal is just to expose how one sided that website is, and I have been pissing off Twilekjedi, the CT mod there all day. I PM'd him and asked him if they could create a specific forum that was totally seperate known as the O-OT Forum. I told him if they created it, I would get everyone back who left, and it would be a omage to all the fans who grew up with the series from 77-83, and it would make us feel wanted, not just having our own thread, but our own FORUM! He replied NO WAY, and said it was brought up in the meeting of the mods and nobody thought it was a good idea. I PM'd him again, and told him why don't you just rename the site, "Only Star Wars fans of the movies from 1997-2005" He never responded.

One of my posts was edited, but in it I said that I am the only one who is fighting for the O-OT on this site now since Harlock, Zombie and LordHelmet were banned yesterday. The post was up for everyone to see for about an hour, but I got many PM's from fans who were posting who pretty pissed off. Even though they disagreed with me, they really thought it was lame that the O-OT guys in the argument were the only ones who got banned.

Then I posted about SW getting #39 on the new AFI List, and at this time presently , nothing was posted on the site saying one of its babies, the original SW made a Top 100 list compared with EVERY movie ever. But they were quick to post last Thursday that Hayden won an MTV Award for Best Villain! I got about 2 replies from fans who congratulated SW '77, and my point was made: There is no one left on that site who likes the O-OT and the Original Star Wars anymore. Guys, this is the new radical Star Wars fan. Get used to this niche audience of SW geeks.
Post
#218899
Topic
Prequel demographic breakdown
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218899/action/topic#218899
Time
I think this demographic breakdown is interesting, I will go a step further, will these movies be loved 20 years from now?

The thing about the OT is it is timeless, and that is key to fans sticking with a movie long after they have grown up. For me, growing up in the 80's, I loved SW, but I also loved movies like The Karate Kid. 20 years later, I see ROTJ as a good sequel, but not great, and I watch it more as closure to my beloved trilogy. SW & ESB are still classics to me, because they are great movies, and great movies have the quality to withstand the test of time that good movies you may have loved growing up don't.

The Karate Kid is a perfect example of movie that has not passed the test of time, and I only watch it for nostalgia. As a 12 year old kid in 1984, I loved the movie, and watched it a zillion times on HBO. About a year ago I saw it on TBS, and watched it for the first time in about 10 years, and wow, it was cringeworthy to watch. I still enjoyed it, cause I thought of memories of 6th grade, but I won't be buying it on DVD and watching it as much as the OT.

Now for the PT fans who supposedly love them now, what will they think in 20 years? I don't doubt they love the movies now, but they will grow out of them, especially TPM & AOTC cause they are not great movies. ROTS seems to be the prevailing favorite around gushers, and I know my 8 year old nephew only likes that prequel movie, so that may pass the test of time, only cause every plot point is thrown in by Lucas. But do you really think 20 years from now, a majority of the PT gushers are going to pop in TPM out of true love of the movie? Do you think they are going to look at their movies and say, "AOTC, that is what I have been dying to watch lately, that movie is a classic!"

I still do that with SW & ESB. Those movies are so good, the quality has lasted, that I still yearn to watch them cause they are great, not because I was a big SW fan growing up. ROTJ is one movie of the trilogy that I look at as part of the story after watching two classics. There is no way fans are going to watch two average or bad prequels to get to the perceived great one of the trilogy in the PT.

The PT in 20 years will be like Star Trek fans, a niche audience. Those fans will be diehards, I don't doubt that, but it won't be any of the size that the OT still has these days, cause many fans are going to grow up and realize Jar Jar is ridiculous, and the love story in AOTC is atrocious, and what is left to them, one good movie, and that, a trilogy does not make. Trust me on this guys.
Post
#218829
Topic
Moving in from the Basher's Sanctuary (TF.n)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218829/action/topic#218829
Time
Just to show you guys how bias theforce.net is, I posted this thread on SW '77 coming in at #39 on AFI most inspirational movies and wasn't even reported on the main page, any forum, nowhere on the website. Here is my original post:
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Cjedi 72:
I am suprised this wasn't posted on this site anywhere being that this is a Star Wars site. But last night the AFI had a cool 3 hour show of the 100 most inspirational movies of all-time with #1 being 'It's a Wonderful Life'

Again, the original Star Wars, makes one of these lists. It shows the true power of this movie cause despite what many say on this site, it is loved by the masses, the critics, and the fans even today. 29 years later, this is a true classic.

Makes you start to wonder that this wasn't posted anywhere how many Star Wars fans here really love the Original Star Wars?




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And here is the reponse by a mod who banned Zombie and Harlock and LordHelmet 1 for defending the O-OT. Read his response, and you tell me this site isn't bias, and dont' give a rats ass about the original SW. Remember this post is from a mod:
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Post Reply | Quote Reply | Active Topic Notification | Private Message | Post History
TwiLekJedi
Title: Classic Trilogy Manager
Registered: Jun '01

Date Posted: 2:55am Subject: RE: The Original Star Wars ranks #39th on All-time AFI Inspirational Movies
Are you going to talk about how inspirational ANH is or just rant about how awful this site is and how 'nobody likes Star Wars anymore'?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


How can anyone who loves the O-OT post there when you have the mods making sarcastic remarks about the original SW? I think I rest my case.
Post
#218698
Topic
Judging by ESB & ROTJ original box office gross, here is why Lucas started to change
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218698/action/topic#218698
Time
Originally posted by: nohandluke
I'm glad this topic came up - I have compiled an exhaustive analysis of the creative conflicts throughout ESB through interviews with Kershner and Kurtz and Lucas at this website: www.geocities.com/mfbespinluke

There are photos and the text is color coded to differentiate between quotes and analysis. Hope you enjoy it because these quotes are from the mouths of the horses, so to speak.

Mike


Great research, and a great read too, I highly recommend anyone here to read it. The scary thing is your analysis of a SW fan and the downward spiral of disrespect for Lucas is an exact timeline I started in a thread here right after the non-anamorphic debacle was announced.

"Roller coaster ride" is a such an ironic phrase, and I 100% believe that Lucas thinks that way. ESB is so not all George Lucas, and someone has to start calling on him for this, because he gets too much credit as creator sometimes of that movie. I will bow to him for SW '77, cause that was all him, but ESB is mostly Kershs baby, and ROTJ, TPM, AOTC, and ROTS are dense 'roller coaster ride' movies in one way or another.

Luckily ROTJ has Luke, Leia, and Han, so it will always be better than the PT.
Post
#218688
Topic
Judging by ESB & ROTJ original box office gross, here is why Lucas started to change
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218688/action/topic#218688
Time
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
It still completely boggles my mind how ESB was considered the undernourished sibling of the Star Wars Trilogy back in its day. I just can't even wrap my mind around it. Now it's the holy grail of the entire Star Wars saga how it should be. It was my favorite as a kid, and it's my favorite now. What was wrong with people in 1980?!


Gaffer, you have to take in context that fans didn't know if there were necessarily more movies after ESB, and many at the time didn't like the cliffhanger ending.

A sequel back then was not routine like today, i.e. Spiderman, X-Men, Harry Potter, even the prequels. Now when a movie is made, as long as it does well at the box office, you know it is a franchise, and more are to come in the future.

Walking out of ESB in 1980, it was nothing like SW, and fans were not expecting that. Now many fans liked it, cause it did gross 200 million, but many fans didn't love it like they do now till after ROTJ, and finally saw it as a middle act in a three act play. After viewing the trilogy as a whole after ROTJ, the cliffhanger ending is great as it leads right into ROTJ, but in 1980, you kinda feel cheated.

If fans saw ESB in 2005, and saw a cliffhanger ending, they would begin anticipating the next sequel in 2-3 years, and the internet rumors would begin.

As much as I love ESB, I think it set fans up for the way we are today, awaiting the next ESB..... SW & ESB are so great as a 1-2 punch for the saga, in all honesty, how many more classics could Lucas have made with the saga? Most sagas start to suck right after the original, or the quality drops with each sequel. ESB was able to keep that level of quality, and do one better than SW, and for ROTJ and the PT, that is a tough act to follow.

If ESB had been a good sequel, but not great, I really think I wouldn't be here on these boards today, and just be a SW '77 fan, and think of the rest of the movies as entertaining but doesn't compare to the original. ESB is the only sequel in movie history that compares to the original, and that is has been the achilles heal for SW fans since 1980, cause we have been waiting and waiting for that next ESB.
Post
#218650
Topic
Moving in from the Basher's Sanctuary (TF.n)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218650/action/topic#218650
Time
Originally posted by: zombie84[

I know! I always considered myself one of the more civil and constructive contributors to that place but i guess theres not even room for sane people like you and me. I'm going to be calling this behavior to the attention of other mods once I come back to try and see if we can relent this ridiculous intellectual oppression. I know the majority of them are in favour of the PT/SE but theres also a few that actually are level headed and have respect for people like us. I'm also planning on starting an "OOT Defense Force" over there, as someone pointed out that there is an identical such discussion for the PT. I don't much care for the actual ideal, i just like the idea of evening the odds.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Zombie84, I PM'd Twilekjedi, the mod who banned all O-OT fans today, under my other username cjedi72, and told him I found out you were banned, and told him he is losing moderate SW fans without an agenda if you ban people like him. He replied, and said my objection was noted, but he couldn't discuss their policies of banning people individually. But I think he is going to reconsider, cause their bias is showing.

I told him you are not a basher nor gusher, and told him to go back and read your posts in that thread, they were all very interesting and anyone here could learn a thing or two from your scans. I then said if you want a site of yes-men to George Lucas, and have everyone say the movies are great and nothing is wrong with them, go enjoy yourselves, cause it is going to get boring real quick.

Even us here at the originaltrilogy.com are arguing over ROTJ, so we are not all lockstep in our views, we just want a decent product of the movies we love.

Post
#218566
Topic
Moving in from the Basher's Sanctuary (TF.n)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218566/action/topic#218566
Time
Originally posted by: zombie84
I sent a reply to his superior stating it was personal harrasment based on a personal bias against me for my views. It really is completely unwarranted and hypocritical and I'm not going to stand for it. What the fuck is happening to that site?



The problem is almost every mod on that site loves the SE & PT, and they just don't really care about our cause for the O-OT and decent quality. They just don't want to hear that the Original SW shouldn't be touched, remember a mod started 'Is ANH meh' thread, so the ideology over there starts from the top.

What the problem is, is they are starting to scare fans that are sort of in the middle away from their site. Now you just have a bunch of PT gushers and a small amount of PT haters left, and nothing in between, and there is no way to have a civil conversation with someone who is not willing to look at the other side. I have given up there.
Post
#218550
Topic
Moving in from the Basher's Sanctuary (TF.n)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218550/action/topic#218550
Time
Originally posted by: zombie84
Wow, I've been banned from there for the first time--and for likely just because i said that readers should realise that TFN boards are slanted in their view and dont represent how the OOT is perceived in the rest of society. Incredible.



I just got banned there too, I was using LordHelmet1, and only because you and I were defending the OOT from every jerkoff who would make a snide remark about anyone who wants it in anamorphic video. Go through all those posts, and nobody gets warned for telling the oldtimers "they are getting what they deserved." The sad thing is Twilek, or whatever his username is, he is the mod who banned everyone and two weeks ago, he chimed in and said, "All of you who whined and buried George all these years, are getting what you deserved with this release." Now, isn't he talking about the fans instead of the films?

That site is truly bias and totally pathetic. I think they take an oath:

"Thou shall not even like or enjoy the original Star Wars, and think it should be completely remade"

"Thou shall think the Prequels are all masterpieces."

"Thou shall think Jar Jar was annoying on purpose, it was always intended by Lucas to show him as an outcast"

"Thou shall not like any of the O-OT movies, even though every one of the fans who post there had to watch them before 1997, and for some reason didn't have a problem with them then."

"Thou shall defend Hayden Christenson as the force ghost in ROTJ SE even though it makes no sense"

OK, you are a member of TF.n
Post
#218497
Topic
Remember when everyone hated Return of the Jedi?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218497/action/topic#218497
Time
Originally posted by: Neil S. Bulk
Originally posted by: Darth-Adroit
Perhaps if George had watched ANH and ESB just once before writing Jedi and the PT we would have decent continuity in the entire saga.

That's right. With the exception of the "two Sith rule" established in TPM (it was clear in Jedi that the emperor wanted Luke to join him and Vader, either that or Vader was a big dope for not realizing he was being replaced) the prequels match up perfectly with the continuity of Jedi. Less so with Empire and even less with Star Wars.


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CO response:

I actually think when watched 1-6, the PT really makes ROTJ worse, cause now you see all the plot holes that were established in ROTJ. If just watched 4-6, I can enjoy the OT story, sure Luke/Leia was made up last minute, but the OT is so general, you can't prove anything when crying plot hole, and in the end, the story does work for me as a trilogy.

With the PT, major lines in ROTJ are ruined and you begin to realize that Lucas couldn't connect the trilogies:

"You don't know the power of the darkside, I must obey my master." I always thought this was a powerful line from ROTJ when spoken by Vader to Luke. After the PT, what does it mean? Why must he obey his master?

"Obiwan once thought as you did." Another line that means nothing in the PT. Obiwan went to Mustafar to kill Anakin, not redeem him, it was Padme who tried to bring him back. Remember when Padme asks Kenobi, "You're going to kill him aren't you?" And he doesn't answer. Sorry, Vader, Obiwan never thought that way.

"Leia, do you remember your mother, your real mother?" Leia responds, "Just a bit, through memories, images, she died while I was very young, she was beautiful, but sad." Leia, you got all that in the 5 seconds your mother was alive? That whole scene is now a plothole cause of the PT.

Three huge scenes ruined when watching it 1-6, that is why ROTJ gets butchered after the PT, and that is a shame.

And don't get me started on Hayden as a force ghost, or the new MTV song in Jabbas Palace, they are pure shit changes, that have made me not even recognize the SE because of those two changes.

Post
#218404
Topic
Remember when everyone hated Return of the Jedi?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218404/action/topic#218404
Time
I guess I would look at the OT this way, I still enjoy ROTJ cause it finishes the story.

Star Wars is a classic, and if was still a standalone movie with zero sequels, I would still love it just as much. ESB is a rare instance where a sequel is as good as the original. There are many good sequels in movie series, but ESB is the greatest sequel ever, and that defined the Star Wars saga. Because ESB is so good, ROTJ gets a pass in some ways for me, because I have to finish the story, and i still really enjoy it. I don't love it, but I really like it as closes to the trilogy. For me personally, ROTJ does give closure for me in a positive way, so I will give my props to it for that reason.

Now lets say ESB was not as good as Star Wars, and it was an average sequel, but not the classic it is now. Then I probably wouldn't watch ROTJ, and in a sense I would just be a Star Wars '77 fan. It would be equivalent to me being a Jurassic Park fan, and thinking the sequels are inferior. It would be equivalent to me being a Matrix fan, and thinking the sequels are inferior.

I can always watch SW '77 and enjoy it, but ESB & ROTJ go together to complete the trilogy, even though ESB is light years better. I think many fans who say they don't love the PT, but still watch them now, are an extention of what I do with ROTJ. They are still watching movies that are inferior to its predecessors, but out of obligation to the story, feel the need to still watch all of them. In a sense the smartest thing Lucas did was using the number system, cause it is psychological mechanism that many feel they are not watching all the story. I know one friend who thinks TPM is awful, but feels he has to watch it because it is part of the story now.

Now was ESB a fluke? That is a great question, and sometimes I start to believe it. Think about it, since Raiders of the Lost Ark in 1981, what great movie has Lucas really been attached to? In that respect, he is way overrated.
Post
#218368
Topic
Judging by ESB & ROTJ original box office gross, here is why Lucas started to change
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218368/action/topic#218368
Time
I was looking at the original domestic box office gross of the OT movies. Now this does not count re-release, or SE money, it is exactly what the movie made in 1977, 1980, and 1983: (soure boxofficemojo.com)

Star Wars - 307 million

The Empire Strikes Back - 209 million

Return of the Jedi - 252 million

I was 5 years old in 1977, so I was one of those whizkid SW fans who brought the original SW to be the one of the greatest culture shocks to the movie business ever. Every kid my age loved the original SW, and we couldn 't get enough of it.

So Lucas goes dark in 1980 with ESB, more adult, more drama, the bad guys lose. What did I think of it in 1980? I liked it, but didn't love it. For an 8 year old kid, it was just too dark for me.

So Lucas sees the box office drop 100 million from the original SW and starts to wonder if ESB was a bit too adult and maybe he was turning off the kiddies like me.

So Lucas goes a bit cutesy in 1983 with ROTJ, the ewoks, the happy ending, the recycled deathstar space battle. I walked out of theater in 1983 as an 11 year old on cloud nine, I love it. It wasn't as good as Star Wars, but it was better than ESB. ROTJ makes 50 million more at the box office, kids like the softer tone, precursor to the SE & PT.......(psst: Jar Jar)

10-15 years later, I begin to start to notice something.....ESB is a great movie, and ROTJ, its good and all, but I have done the ultimate 180. Star Wars is always the best, now ESB is just as good and maybe even better in some ways, and ROTJ is now third on my list. Who here did exactly that change in their SW fandom from grammar school to college years?

I am not saying I am the blame for the kiddiness that pervaded the saga starting with the Ewoks, but I believe Lucas looked at the box office numbers, and thought that the more adult, the less money he is gonna make. In the process, he sacrificed quality of the movies to appeal to a wider range audience.

But I can't lie and not admit that I liked ROTJ more as a kid than ESB. It isn't my fault, but as they say in All The Presidents Men, "Follow the money." Judging by ROTJ & ESB gross, Lucas followed the money.
Post
#218339
Topic
Remember when everyone hated Return of the Jedi?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218339/action/topic#218339
Time
Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father
There's a lot of people, myself included, who still see ROTJ as inferior to it's 2 predecessors. The stuff with Luke, Vader and the Emperor is good, but it was definitely starting to go pear-shaped by the 3rd movie. It just wasn't as noticable as in the Prequels, which sucked AND blowed at the same time.


Exactly!

Even 10 years ago, I thought ROTJ was the worst of the OT, and it is the only one I didn't see in the theaters in 1997. But as a trilogy, with two classics, I still can watch this just as much cause I care about Luke, Leia, and Han and the movie gives me a sense of closure on a great trilogy. But there is two ways of looking at ROTJ:

1. As just a sequel to a classic original, it is a very good movie, not great, but not in the league of shitsville as Rocky V, Jaws 3-D, Superman III-IV, and Jurassic Park III. Those movies truly suck, and when compared to them, it is an enjoyable sequel.

2. When compared to SW & ESB, it is totally inferior, and now looked upon as the weak link of the trilogy that defied the odds with the first sequel being as great as the first classic original.

What the Prequels did to ROTJ for me was open up that it could have been alot worse. The one thing ROTJ gets right is the Vader/Emperor/Luke scenes in the last half hour. Those scenes are just as good as anything from SW & ESB, and really are the glue that hold this movie together.

Now look at the Prequels, and how Lucas dropped the ball on major scenes in each movie: An annoying Jar Jar rumbles his way for 2 hours of TPM to ruin every scene. A 10 year old boy who story is so uncompelling, and now the movie is looked upon as an EU novel. The reason for AOTC is to show Padme/Anakin fall in love, does anyone, even PT gushers think these scenes were well done? And finally in ROTS, The turn scene in which we all waited for is so fast and so illogical, and makes Anakin look like one big dummy cause of one 5 minute sidebar story Palpatine tells him. And then Padme losing the will to live.......

Lucas dropped the ball on BIG scenes in the PT, and that is why it is so jarring when watching them. ROTJ atleast gets the big scenes right. And even thought the Death Star is recycled, it is still a great space battle and you do root for Lando to come out alive. Just think of Hayden Christenson trying to blow up the death star, I would have rooted for the Empire!
Post
#218265
Topic
The Chronology of How My love for Lucas has fallen
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218265/action/topic#218265
Time
I'll be honest guys, I thought Yoda started sounding goofy in ROTJ. It was a short scene before he died, but he started talking backwards too much then. Just compare him in ESB with the other 4 movies he appears, it is almost like he is a different character. In ESB, he truly shines in that movie, and the fact that he is a puppet, and steals every scene on Dagobah is truly remarkable. He talks backwards a few times in ESB, but not nearly as much as the other 4 movies after.

I look at it this way with Yoda and everything in SW. It all started to crumble in ROTJ, but not enough where it was noticably bad, then when it gets to the PT movies, it just gets really bad. The humor, the dialogue, Yoda, The Emperor, the acting, the plots of the stories, and the plot holes. If you really look at ROTJ, it all started there, and then once the SE & PT were released, the floodgates opened and the saga went from great to mediocre. But don't get me wrong, I still love ROTJ, I just notice now how inferior in quality it is to SW & ESB.
Post
#217864
Topic
Moving in from the Basher's Sanctuary (TF.n)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/217864/action/topic#217864
Time
Originally posted by: Tachikoma-Kun
Thing is, it's not even worth fighting for the O-OT there. They did all they could to get rid of everyone who loves the O-OT. It's a lost cause. They even think that the original Star Wars is "meh". You sure as hell can't have a thread "Is ROTS meh?" in there. Hell, I remember a I guy getting banned for saying that Anakin was whiney (He is whiney. It's fact!). But you can bash the original movies as much as you like. It's insane.

I feel like just giving up. Im getting tired of Star Wars and all the bs that Lucas tries to shove down our throats and all fans praising him for it. Thing is, the guy isn't an artist anymore and everyone with half a brain can see it. He is only in it for the money. Like the new DVD release. It's like I read somewhere: He is releasing crap version now and get money from it and then later release a better version. I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to do sequels now. I bet they'd be cgi 100% too. You could just let the 3dsmax guys at Lucasranch program..err.. I mean shoot the film.



I 100% agree, I have actually given up posting on that site anymore, cause it just isn't worth it. In the ANH is 'meh' thread, you have people who want the whole movie updated cause it doesn't fit in with the saga! I mean how do you argue with someone like that?

Those people over there don't care about the O-OT, so they make comments like, "I don't see what the big deal of the O-OT being non-anamorphic?" Then when you press them, they admit that they are not even buying it. I would then say, "Well, if any mods would do their job here, can we please have responses here on the thead about the O-OT on DVD of fans who are atleast interested in buying it?" Then I would get a warning to stop baiting!

It is so sad where SW has come in 10 years, and the fact that Lucas has alienated myself and many here as fans is really pathetic. I have never seen a movie series that just spits on its fans like SW does now. It goes to my topic earlier that I don't think Lucas realizes how many of us older OT fans contributed to that cash cow called the Prequel Trilogy, and it is going to backfire on him if this release is as crappy as we anticipate.

He does not realize that the majority of SW fans are OT fans, not PT, and unfortunately he is catering to the minority. As I have said, most fans who grew up with the OT have never or wont ever post on a SW site, to them the saga is over now, just like Back to the Future and Lord of the Rings. But that doesn't mean they don't love those movies any less than they did the first time they saw them. For them, do they really need to have a debate on Vader being Lukes father, or Lukes failure at the cave? No, we did that on the playground in the 80's!

The stuff of putting the O-OT out as bonus material, and Lucas comments in 2004 that if we want it we can still get it on VHS, cause he won't invest the money to remaster it. Then you get the TF.n faithful who cheer Lucas on for giving the middle finger to a huge part of his fanbase. I really think they love that we are getting non-anamorphic, it is almost like we are getting what we deserve in their opinion.

I answer every response of 'you guys are getting what you deserve' like this, "Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi are my three favorite movies of all-time. Most directors would kill for one of their movies to be in someones top 10 of favorites. Lucas has three of his movies in my top 3." If this is what I deserve for my three favorite movies being created by George Lucas, then you tell me who's being petty now?


Post
#217796
Topic
Moving in from the Basher's Sanctuary (TF.n)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/217796/action/topic#217796
Time
I actually think each Prequel movie got better than the previous one, cause it got closer to the story of Anakin turning. Now 'better' is not suppose to eventually mean great when it comes to ROTS, so please don't misunderstand me.

TPM just feels like an EU novel. You follow QuiGon, Jar Jar, and an undercover Padme for most of the movie, thus leaving ObiWan as a side character, and Anakin as a little boy with not much to do after the pod race. TPM's sole purpose should have been to establish the 4 relationships of the key players in the PT: Anakin, ObiWan, Padme, and Palpatine, within the two hour plot of establishing the whole republic beginning to crumble as the sith plot their revenge. Whenever I watch TPM, I get zero establishment of those four characters, and it does nothing to set up Episode II, as Lucas is not forced to resetup everything in AOTC.

For how bad the love story is in AOTC, and many other things that drive me crazy in that movie, atleast it focuses on the ObiWan, Anakin, and Padme. They are finally the stars of the movies, which should have started in TPM. Just imagine ANH not having Han, Leia, and Luke as the 3 main characters, instead not until ESB is everything set up for them to show their relationships. That would have meant, SW '77 would have failed, and ESB would have never happened. The only problem with AOTC is there is not enough Sidious, as we needed to see alittle more interaction between him & Anakin to show how he is becoming his real master instead of Kenobi. But again, as usual with the PT, we have to assume everything that is interesting plotwise.

Finally in ROTS, the four main characters are finally the four main characters, and their scenes are the most interesting of the saga, which should have started in TPM! Finally we see Palpatine messing with Anakin's head, finally we get to see a nice friendship moments at the beginning between Anakin/Kenobi, and finally we get a couple of un-nausiating moments between Padme/Anakin we they just talk heart to heart instead of talking like Romeo & Juliet.

Lucas had zero character arcs for the PT, and that is huge negative for me when it is all said and done. By not having the four main characters be the four main characters in TPM, I was never able to really care the way I should have when their fates were met at the end of ROTS. Sure there are alot of things I would change about the PT, but I feel the same way about ROTJ. But the reason ROTJ works for me better than the PT, is not because it is any better of a movie than them, but I really care about Luke, Leia, and Han, and I could be sucked into even an average film cause I wanted to see how their fates end. With ROTS, and Anakin laying there burning and Padme laying there dying of the will to live, I said to myself, "Am I suppose to get emotional here, cause the sad thing is I am not?" I had to see the twins being held by their foster parents for me to get emotional, and that is where Lucas failed.
Post
#217687
Topic
Moving in from the Basher's Sanctuary (TF.n)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/217687/action/topic#217687
Time
The whole problem with theforce.net is that all the gushers there get caught up in their own world, and think cause 90% of the people who post there love the PT & SE, then they think its the law.

They don't realize that probably 95% of SW fans who grew up with the OT in the 70's/80's don't even post on the internet, or never have in their life about the present state of SW. I have so many friends I grew up with who love the OT, but they have never even gone to a SW website to post. To them, the saga is done with, and probably has for them for a long time.

Most people I know who grew up with SW love the OT, have varying opinions about the PT. Some think they are good, some think they are alright, and some think they suck, but nobody I know has ever said they loved them more than the OT. Now are there fans out there who love the PT more than the OT, of course they are, but that is a niche audience just like any movie that comes out every week.

What Lucas doesn't realize is that the highest grossing prequel was TPM. Does anyone know why? Because every SW fan who grew with the OT saw that probably once or twice or maybe even three times because it was SW again for the first time in 16 years.

TPM - 431 million domestic
AOTC - 300 million domestic
ROTS - 380 million domestic

If TPM sucks like everyone says than why did it gross the most? Because that was the last SW movie that every old fan came out for. Alot of my friends I know were done after seeing TPM, or after one viewing of AOTC. They kinda gave up on the saga, and the drop is obvious.

Now ROTS is supposedly the best prequel by all the gushers, then why couldn't it beat the lowly TPM? Because all the older fans didn't show up once or multiple times. ROTS had the advantage that many older SW fans were going to see it once just to see how Darth Vader came to be, I mean this was the reason for the prequels, so it was going to do better than AOTC. But the fact that it came up 50 million dollars short of an average TPM, tells me the older crowd didn't come out multiple times as they may have done with TPM, when they still were naive about Lucas being a genius.

This goes to my point that I don't believe the PT fans are as big as everyone says. If they were, the grosses for the movies wouldn't zig zag so much. Look at LOTR and X-Men, each movie has grossed more than the other, so the audience built up through each movie, and you can see the fanbase building.

For the PT, TPM hit the mountain top, and the audience never came close to that again. That is why Lucas is so lucky with the money he made for the PT, how many people do you know who grew up with the OT, saw all 3 PT movies in the theater, and now think they are average, crappy, or alright. Never has a movie trilogy had two movies that have been bad and the fans showed up in droves for the third one, but that is why Lucas held off Darth Vader til the end, he forced us to see all 3 movies whether we thought they were good or not.

Who here said in 2005, "Well I didn't think TPM & AOTC were that good, but I have to see Episode III, this one has got to be the one that Lucas gets right." I'll bet over 75% of OT fans growing up said this. Don't be fooled, the PT is a niche audience of fanboys who do love their movies, I don't doubt that, but they know they are not perfect movies like SW & ESB are, and that is the difference, they accept movies that may not be great.
Post
#214148
Topic
Moving in from the Basher's Sanctuary (TF.n)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/214148/action/topic#214148
Time
Originally posted by: skye_solo
I just checked out that new, so-called basher's thread (or whatever they wanna think of it as) over there. It was an excuse to censor people more than ever. How fuckin' dumb. You can discuss the Golden Era of Star Wars? Anyone can say I like Star Wars...lame.


I read the first 10 posts, and logged off for good. I wish they would just put a disclaimer, if you have anything negative to say about the PT, please do not sign up. Atleast they would be honest about it then.

The one thing that was so hypocritical was when the mods would post and start talking trash about the fans, and it was always a shot at OT fans. There was one mod on the CT page name Twilek who posted, "You the older fans are getting what you asked for, you wanted original versions you got, now stop complaining!"

So I PM'd him and asked him that isn't against the rules to talk about the fans? I told him he was a mod, and if he did it, why wouldn't everyone else just join in? Then I said, we are not getting the original version of SW, cause they are taking it from the 1993 version which had Episode IV crawl in it, and that wasn't there in '77.

He gave me so lame response that he could have said alot worse things, and he didn't break any rules about talking about the fans. I responded back and said, "But you said for all the older fans........ The last time I checked my vocabulary, fans meant fans."

To me that exchange sums up theforce.net. I often wonder if they are all secretly working at Lucasranch.

Post
#214146
Topic
We have to buy this set atleast to preserve it for the next generation of fans
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/214146/action/topic#214146
Time
Originally posted by: Scruffy
Twenty years from now, no one will be willing to watch some smeary 4:3 laserdisc master dumped onto the obsolete DVD format. Especially if they have no pre-existing love for the material. It'll be a novelty item, perhaps suitable for play on portable media devices, but not on home theater systems. Of course, that's what it is today.



I agree on that point, but my original point was if we buy this in droves and show there is a demand for this version, and lets say for the sake of argument, Lucas does another 180, which he seems to do every couple of years. Then he says, "I recognize there is a market that loves the original versions, and though I still see the SE as the version to watch, every release in the future will have the O-OT & SE together."

That would mean we would win, so every young fan when buying a new SW DVD set will have the option of watching the SE & O-OT, and won't be stuck in the 2004 dictator SW world where you only can watch the SE. If Lucas sees a demand for this, the money bags will light up in his eyes, and he would have to put out a good quality master next time.

My whole point is we take our medicine now, and it will be better in the future, not just for us but for the new fans that the OT awaits years down the line. After Lucas pulled this bullshit of non-anamorphic, I kinda changed my view of just wanting the O-OT on DVD for personal reasons, to a new agenda. There is no way Lucas is going to kill these versions, and now there is a bigger cause, making sure these versions don't go obsolete.

To me it isn't about us anymore, it is about our kids generation, and I don't want them to not even realize that Lucas was constantly making changes.



Post
#214117
Topic
We have to buy this set atleast to preserve it for the next generation of fans
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/214117/action/topic#214117
Time
I know there has been much anger on how Lucas is being just a prick on this whole release, and I have been in agreement with everyone 100%. Lucas has lost my respect, and I probably will never look at him the same as I feel he is just being petty now.

But in saying that, I think there is a bigger cause we are fighting for, and it just isn't about a DVD release for our own enjoyment. If we boycott this release then Lucas claims victory and says, "See I told you nobody wanted the original versions." Then the O-OT dies a slow death that Lucas always wanted it to , then what about the next generation of fans?

In a sense we are the last bastion of fans that will keep the O-OT alive. Any new fan before Sept. 12th is being brought up on the SE, they think Hayden has always been in ROTJ, they think Jabbas first appearance in the OT is in Star Wars, and think Greedo is a really bad shot when he misses Han.

In a sense by everyone buying this release, which is not exactly what we wanted, we keep the O-OT alive for possible future releases. In a sense we are taking one for the team. We definitely have to swallow some painful medicine in giving in to King George that we will accept anything, but in a sense that will keep the O-OT alive.

I ask anyone, is it worth it to boycott this release now, and then 20 years from now, the O-OT is not even talked about by newer fans. The SE will be the OT, plain & simple. I say we buy this, cause we have an obligation to future fans that they will atleast have a choice.
Post
#213688
Topic
Moving in from the Basher's Sanctuary (TF.n)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/213688/action/topic#213688
Time
LSHB
Ree Yees
Invader Jenny
Sanctuary Moon
DOTF
Patrick Russell
Wampa Joe
Harlock 415
Skye Solo
Mandalorian
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Such familiar names, I was cjedi72, and didn't know the sanctuary existed, and started arguing with fans who thought TPM was better than the original SW, so I got banned. When I was released from jail, I moderated myself around the PT gushers, and hung out in the sanctuary, cause that was the only place you could post an opinion without getting warned of baiting.

TF.net is a pathetic website, and when they closed the sanctuary, and started that new thread today, I bolted for good. When you have a website with threads like, "The Phantom Masterpiece" and "Is ANH meh?" I started to question if these are the same movies we are all watching?

Then I forgot, they only watch the SE!

The site is 99% fanboys who defend the PT even knowing that they aren't as great as they say. I have talked to many fans there through PM's, and when I talked 'off the record' they admitted that TPM & AOTC are not great, but they just couldn't say anything bad about the movies or the bashers would be right. It is like American Politics, they are all just towing the party line, but don't believe everything they say.

Welcome guys, I have been here a year, and everybody is on the same page about what our goals are. And we don't need to post that the Original Star Wars is a classic, and go chapter to chapter to say how much we love every scene and how it affected our lives.

We let the OT, excuse me, the O-OT speak for itself.


Post
#213654
Topic
5-25-1977 - Happy Birthday, Star Wars
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/213654/action/topic#213654
Time
Originally posted by: Guy Caballero
Does it seem weird they aren't really acknowledging the anniversary over at the official site? Are they afraid it'll be like setting off a nostalgia bomb, and make everyone pine for the o.g. version even more?



Cause most new fans would say, "How come we about saying happy birthday to the saga?" unfortunately they can only comprehend, "Happy Birthday A New Hope." That is the difference between the younger fan and the older fan, I knew what this thread was about by just the title alone, but most younger fans wouldn't get it until reading what the thread is about. I say their loss.
Post
#213649
Topic
5-25-1977 - Happy Birthday, Star Wars
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/213649/action/topic#213649
Time
That is the power of this movie, cause I think of all the movies I saw from 1977-83, and how many of them I just grew out of, but not this movie, and not the trilogy either. I saw it at 5 years old that summer, and I have never loved a movie as much since. I am so lucky I didn't get tainted seeing it like so many newcomers as part of the saga, and losing the whole power of the standalone movie.

Lucas, your being a jerk now, but I tip my hat to you for this masterpiece in 1977.