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25-Jul-2005
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Post
#220994
Topic
Why the PT fans love the PT so much, not as diehard as we think
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220994/action/topic#220994
Time
Originally posted by: jack Spencer Jr
You know, one of these days I should write up a breakdown of what I disliked and found weak in the PT and see just why the PT fans just don't see what I do. Or, I would but that would mean watching those movies again, so to heck with that. That's what bugs me. How can they like it so much when I find so many reasons to hate it. It's not creepy or nothing, it's perplexing and has skirted close to madness.


Yes, but they do see the flaws, although not as many as we do, but they don't care. What I did on TF.n was try to PM some of the more reasonable gushers, and try to get them to be honest, and I was suprised that they talk a good game of defending the PT on the threads, but when you get them 'off the record' they are alot different.

There is one guy on TF.n Cryogenic, who I had many conversations with through PM's, and he admitted to me that TPM isn't that good of a movie at all, and even admitted that AOTC wasn't much better, but he did like ROTS alot, and also agreed to me that SW & ESB were two best SW films. So I asked him why so much love for the PT in all your posts, it sounds like you love them as much as I love the OT?

His response was he was tired of bashers ruining everything, so he had to dig in the trenches and fight for the PT, and if he started really burying the movies, the vulchers would jump in and say, "I told you so!" So he was always positive in his love for this trilogy, in which he thought two of the movies were average. He constantly said he just liked the themes that Lucas used, and he thought OT fans were expecting too much from the PT. He always said, "Come on, they're just SW films, I am not expecting to be overwhelmed." He also admitted that Superman: The Movie was his favorite movie of all-time, not any of the 6 SW movies. I would counter and say how many heres favorite movie of all-time is one of the OT movies?

And that is the crux of my argument, alot of these supposed PT Gushers are not going to be like us 20 years from now, and still love those movies. I contend you don't love movies that you never loved 20 years later, you are bound to see the averageness of it, and move on in life.

We atleast saw it within a couple years after the release, but at one time I was a naive lover of the PT films, but deep down after every viewing I just knew they werent great movies, and something was missing. After ROTS, that is when I changed my stance on the PT, and in fairness to Lucas I gave the whole trilogy all the wiggle room, I waited for the whole story before rendering my verdict, that the movies are just not that great and dont really mesh with the OT. They have great moments, but man they have really bad ones too that just bring the movies down that only George Lucas is able to get away with from the SW fans.

Putting aside my thesis, I still think alot of PT fans are enamored by the action, the visuals, and the lightsaber fights, and I know they won't be fans 20 years from now because there will be something bigger and better than the PT.

I always ask why we still love and fight for the O-OT? It is the characters, the story, and the fact that in my opinion there are two classics in the trilogy, and one good movie for closure. That is why its passed the test of time for me.
Post
#220954
Topic
Why the PT fans love the PT so much, not as diehard as we think
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220954/action/topic#220954
Time
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
The only thing that irritates me is that somehow Padme lost the will to live, but her last words were, "There is good in him." What the hell?! If she believes that, then how does that justify losing the will to live? That's hope! The whole point of her losing the will to live, as I understand it, is because she lost Anakin, who meant everything in the world to her. But if she believes there's still good in him, then what the hell's the point? That's always bothered me. It makes no sense.
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I remember reading Lucas's rationale about Padmes death. He said he couldn't make her die from anything physically happenning to her by Anakin, cause that would be too much. In his view, now he actually killed her, now he is a monster!

So he thought up the losing the will to live part, so technically Anakin didn't have anything to do with killing her except breaking her heart. It is lame, but that is old George's reasoning.

The whole way Anakin was portrayed in ROTS, makes me rethink if he even deserves to be a force ghost in ROTJ, and I actually would be for Lucas just having Yoda & Kenobi smiling at the end of the saga when watching it with the PT movies as Luke sees the ghosts.

How can Luke look at this man, and Kenobi & Yoda smile next to a man who killed loads of children jedis (I won't say Younglings cause I hate that word) and choked his wife! That is a man who does not deserve to be redeemed.

I always envisioned Vader killing Jedi as part of the Clone Wars, as any soldier who is fighting in Iraq today is doing. It is war, and they are just doing their job. Once he killed all the kid jedis, it still bothers me, and I think Lucas didnt' realize how unbelievable that is 10 minutes after he says, "What have I done?" If he killed the Conehead guy cause that was part of The Emperors plan, then I could understand he is just abiding by rules of war.

This is my whole beef with the PT characters, it is bad enough their not likeable to begin with, but now Lucas's writing really makes me root against them. Anakin killing kids & choking his wife, Padme losing the will to live, how am I suppose to feel any drama or tragedy when she is lying there in a casket & he is standing there next to The Emperor on the Star Destroyer?

But just check many PT fans comments and how they feel at the end of ROTS, "I was balling and crying my eyes out, it was so tragic, those two young lovers and how they met their fates." In a sense, I glad I dont' get an emotions til they show the two kids being brought to their foster parents. I just find it very disturbing that these young PT fans can relate to these young lovers and their situations, I am sorry I just can't.
Post
#220909
Topic
What Special Edition changes (if any) did people like?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220909/action/topic#220909
Time
I love the O-OT and will always watch it above the SE, but if Lucas only changed certain effects, none of this debate would exist.

These changes I don't mind:

-The ring around the deathstar

-The new Jawa Sandcrawler

-The new ObiWan Hut

-The expansion of MosEisley without the stupid jawa swinging and making sounds

-The new detailed X-Wings leaving Yavin

-Some new shots in the attack on the death star

Thats it, ESB & ROTJ should have been left alone. Originally Lucas was only going to do Star Wars, he even says it on the laserdisk, but he figured why not make money on all 3 in the theaters? Lucas couldn't do certain things in 1977, and by changing little stuff like this, I wouldn't be complaining of no O-OT.

But of course, he sticks in a bad CG Jabba, changes the Greedo/Han scene, puts in an awful new song in Jabbas Palace, and then puts in Hayden in ROTJ!!!!!!! All changes that had nothing to do with technology back then, just Lucas going crazy trying to change more than he needs.
Post
#220890
Topic
Peter Jackson the new Luca$???
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220890/action/topic#220890
Time
Originally posted by: JediRandy

Ridiculous. The OT DVD set is a fine set. It looks and sound great. It sucks in your opinion because it's not the OOT. The bonus disk has a 2 hour documentary on it with other documentaries on it as well.
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JediRandy, here is the thing about that set, it was the first SW OT set on DVD so many fans were going to buy it no matter what, cause I was one of them. At that point, I was starving for any SW OT movies on DVD, and the changes were the least of my worries. But if I had my choice, of course I would prefer the O-OT.

If Lucas put out just the O-OT in 2004 on DVD, it would have sold the same amount, and probably more for all the holdout fans waiting who won't buy it. I don't think any fan of the SE would not have bought the OT DVD's in 2004, if they were just the O-OT. I mean those same fans were buying all those videos before 1997 and loved the OT just as much!

The problem is now for Lucas is fans like me who bought the SE once because we wanted the OT so badly, but wont buy any future sets without the O-OT. I have admitted here that I will buy the Sept Release even in Non-Anamorphic cause I have to have it, so now I have what I want on DVD.

The only time I will buy a SW set again, if it is Anamorphic. There will be many here who want buy the sept release, but again, I am in the middle. But if Lucas puts out a super duper 2007 OT/PT saga boxset with more changes, I have no interest, cause I already have what I want, and you will see sales plummet of O-OT fans who bought once, but not again. If Lucas puts a saga boxset in 2007 with O-OT/SE-OT/PT, then I will fork out my money.

Don't be fooled by those 2004 SE numbers, they would have been the same if it was just the O-OT.
Post
#220868
Topic
Why the PT fans love the PT so much, not as diehard as we think
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220868/action/topic#220868
Time
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
I'm going to do something I never thought I'd do, but I'm going to debate against CO on this one. Don't take it personally, man. You know I think you're awesome.
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Please don't be afraid to take issue with my statements, unlike other websites I welcome someone who has a legitimate beef with me. Now if this were TF.n, I would be banned right now. Please anyone who disagrees, I am game, that is what this is all about, not to agree 100% of the time.

I am just saying that I think there is a difference in fans between the OT & PT mainstream fans as well. Sure there are OT fans that dress up for the movies, just as there are PT fans who do the same. I think that is just weird if you over the age of 10, but there are fans like that from every movie series, so I discount the real diehards on each side.

My whole point was, growing up many of my friends were OT fans, and none of us were huge scifi fans, we were not the typical demographic for SW. We just gravitated to the movies because it was a feel good story, had really likeable characters you can relate to, and of course the movie quality, especially SW & ESB were unmatched at the time.

The PT fans are different, they will admit only ROTS is the only great movie to them. They admit that there are flaws in every movie, and that Jar Jar goes too far, and that yes there are plot holes but that wont ruin the movie experience. I ask anyone here, if SW or ESB were like that, do you think we would be here? Would we all love 2 mediocre movies, and one pretty good one? So what makes the PT fans gravitate to the characters that we can't? I mean its the same damn world with the same themes, why can't any of us latch on give two shits about Anakin & Padme? The only character I remotely care about is Ewan McGregor, cause he is atleast the one good guy from the trilogy.

The PT fans have to love Anakin & Padmes character to love these movies. I made a thread on TF.n awhile back on first reactions to each PT movie, and everyone of them LOVED ROTS, but most thought TPM was alright, and it was half and half about AOTC. So only ROTS seems to be the prevailing crown jewel of the saga. Again would you love a trilogy of just one great movie?

So they say they can't believe Anakin would kill younglings, they can't believe he choked Padme, but they still like him? I was rooting for Kenobi the whole Mustafar battle, and once he cut Anakins legs & arms off, I was saying Thank God! I didn't root for Anakin once in the PT, he was never likeable, and he was designed that way by Lucas, and for some reason that appeals to many PT fans.

Now Padme, how can you respect anyone who loses the will to live after having two kids? I laugh at that scene, thinking, "No mother would do this? Who is writing this shit?" But PT fans rationalize, that she did it for Anakin, she was so torn up inside that her love did that to her. Newsflash: Any parent knows that kids are more important than anything in the world, and she deserted TWO of them is not believable, unless your mentally ill.

We talk about quality of the PT films, and this nitpick and that nitpick. But the bottom line is I never gave a rats ass about the two leads in the movies: Anakin & Padme, that is why I didn't love the movies. But there are alot of these people that had to gravitate to these characters the same way we did to Luke, Leia, and Han Solo. Unfortunately they are like night and day, and I don't find anything redeeming of either of them.
Post
#220803
Topic
Why the PT fans love the PT so much, not as diehard as we think
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220803/action/topic#220803
Time
Originally posted by: Scruffy
What's wrong with Trekkies?


I guess what I mean is there are fans of Star Trek, and there are Trekkies. I would say the Trekkies are the closet cases who have some real issues. The Star Trek fans are the majority who just love the stuff because they love it. I think the PT fans have some real issues in their lives, and thats why the story of Anakin/Padmes love affair and the tragedy appeals to them so much.
Post
#220794
Topic
Why the PT fans love the PT so much, not as diehard as we think
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220794/action/topic#220794
Time
The PT fans at TF.n are really starting to creep me out and they are starting to get like trekkies. I really think I know the difference in appeal to the PT fans as to the OT fans. It is fascinating to read what makes them love the PT movies so much, but it is alittle scary if you get through all the bull shit of what they like, and instead focus on why they like.

The OT appealed to anyone cause the characters were normal, and they upbeat and fun movies. I am not a sci-fi fan, but the OT are my favorite set of movies, so it was able to get fans like me to love it. You could identify with Luke, Leia, and Han, and that was the appeal, and of course they are great movies to begin with.

I read what the appeals to the PT fans: Many say, they identify with Padme/Anakin because they have had relationships like that. I think, who the hell has forbidden love affairs on this planet cause of those circumstances? They can identify with Anakin because of his attachment issues as a kid, and the things he goes through and the choices he makes to go to the darkside. I say to myself, "who thinks of killing a bunch of kids to save your wife?" In short, they are really identify with Anakin & Padme, the same way we identify with Han, Luke, and Leia, and I say they have some major issues.

I am not saying that these fans aren't genuine in their love for the PT, but it is getting creepy, and I am really starting to believe that the PT diehards are a niche audience that won't stand the test of time. These people will outgrow these movies in 10 years when they get over their forbidden love affairs issues and their demons in them as teenagers than Anakin faces.

I believe there is a good amount of fans that like the PT, and cause of their love of the OT, they give it a pass because it is more SW. Then there are niche fans like us who have major issues, and there are niche fans like them who love it to death.

The reason the OT is still great today, is the movies still resonate because anyone can relate to the little guy beating the big guy, and the underdog story SW is really about. Most of these PT fans are big fans of ROTJ, and the last half hour of ESB, where Vader is prominent. In essence, they dont' like SW '77 cause it doesn't deal with Vader, and it is his story that interests them the most. I want to see 20 years from now when they are in their 30's and 40's if they still give two shits about Darth Vaders story played out in movies that aren't that great. I know I don't watch any movies from 20 years ago, that I don't deam a classic, I heavily doubt they will either.
Post
#220793
Topic
Watched ROTS on HBO, UGGGH!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220793/action/topic#220793
Time
Oh, I agree with you. Luke and Leia should not have been seen or named. In a world of good storytelling, Anakin's wife would have fled Anakin, probably with Obi-wan as her guardian, to protect her unborn child from what her husband has become (because the turn to the dark side wouldn't happen in five minutes), and the birth of the twins would happen off-screen, or better yet, between movies. The children and their fates would be unknown to the viewer until ANH. THEN, after her children have been safely hidden, she would try to confront (if at all) Anakin to win him over to the dark side, yada, yada, yada. So many wasted opportunities to weave a really deep and continuous story as opposed to a movie version of star wars theme ride.


That is what makes me laugh at all the fans who saw it 4-6, 1-3, but now say you have to watch it 1-6 because George says so. All those fans would have been pissed after ROTS if Lucas did not show Vader being built, the twins being born, and all the closure that movies gives in the sense of a backstory telling point of view. All of this stuff in there does not make sense from a 1-6 point of view.
Text
Post
#220788
Topic
"Original Vision"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220788/action/topic#220788
Time
I honestly think Lucas changed once he was the ruler of Skywalker Ranch, and everything went from his vision to $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. If you look at THX-1138, American Grafitti, Star Wars, Raiders of the Lost Ark and ESB which he didn't direct, they were all films where he took a chance, and didn't worry about putting little kiddies in the theaters to pad the gross box office.

ROTJ was where it all started, and that was his first full movie as CEO, not the cutting edge director from the 70's. Once Lucas became a businessman, he was all about business, and not about fullfulling artistic vision of making a the best movie he can, and not worrying about the monetary ramifications.

That is why he is so wishy washy today, cause everything is about money. If he was so steadfast about the O-OT dying a slow death, then why release it at all? Because of $$$$$$$$$$.

The worst thing to happen to Star Wars in 1977, and then ESB in 1980 was they became so big, that they created this monster we have to deal with at the present time. If Star Wars stayed popular like Star Trek as just a diehard niche audience, Lucas wouldn't have Skywalker Ranch, he wouldn't be this autonomous ruler of all his movies by owning 100% of them, and he would have never catered to kids as much with Ewoks in Jar Jar, cause he wouldn't be so worried about the merchandising and the bottom line.

Success was a double edged sword, we got classics like SW & ESB that are still great today, but then we get duds like ROTJ, The SE, and the PT, and more TV show crap on the way, which takes no chances, but is just another ploy to make more money to feed Lucas's empire. We created the monster, now we are paying for it.
Post
#220723
Topic
Watched ROTS on HBO, UGGGH!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220723/action/topic#220723
Time
Originally posted by: JediFlyer06
Vader NEVER should have been shown, or even referred to by name in ROTS. He only ever should have been seen physically as Anakin Skywalker, and referred to as Anakin Skywalker. Vader should be seen for the first time in ANH, and not fully revealed as Anakin until ROTJ. That would maintain the mystery, the drama, and the surprises of the OT when the movies are watched chronologically. The last we should see of Anakin as an audience is when Kenobi supposedly kills him. As an audience, you think he's dead. Then, in the OT you're shocked to learn that he survived and has become Darth Vader. That's good storytelling, something Lucas has made every effort to avoid.


Great post, and never really thought of it that way, cause I never think of 1-6 order, always thinking 4-6, 1-3. But I will even go a step further, and not even have Luke & Leia being named in ROTS either. And not even showing them going to their foster parents either so the only thing you see is Padme giving birth, having two kids and dying.

Thus the reveal in ESB is preserved about Vader being Lukes father, and the reveal about Luke/Leia being siblings in ROTJ is preserved.

You are so right, and that is why 1-6 is so lame, because everything is known going into Episode IV. Zero suspense for the way Lucas tells the fans to watch it now. Atleast with 4-6, 1-3 the backstory is intriguing cause you wonder what made Vader turn, now you are just waiting for him to tell his offspring he is their father, what kind of drama does that hold?
Post
#220712
Topic
Watched ROTS on HBO, UGGGH!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220712/action/topic#220712
Time
I am glad Lucas only gave suited Vader only two minutes, because it was only 2 minutes of ruining the character, and not any more. Just think of so many OT characters, the more we knew, the less we liked:

Boba Fett: Do I really give a shit about his childhood? This guy is a mysterious bounty hunter in ESB, and now Lucas decides to flesh out this character in the PT?

C-3PO: His bad puns in AOTC as his head was being dragged, to be being built by Anakin none the less. To finally actually flying to Mustafar with Padme, but this time he was actually flying the ship! That's right, and then he flies the ship when Kenobi leaves! When did C-3PO become a pilot?

R2-D2: Or should I say PT CG R2. He is flying around in AOTC, he is this nimble droid kicking ass at the beginning of ROTS, and then he gets to the OT, and he is this clutsy droid?

The Emperor in ROTS: What was with the whole turn scene and his voice? What was with him burning his face with lightning against Mace? Was he taking one for the team? I loved him in ROTJ, as calculating and evil, now he is just a cackling fool in ROTS, or more like The Joker in Batman '89.

Uncle Owen & Aunt Beru: Thank god we only got 2 minutes of them too, cause he didn't ruin SW '77 Owen & Beru with the PT, except Owen owning C-3PO for ten years?

Jabba the Hutt: Totally ruined now when watching it 1-6, as he is put in there as a cameo to watch the podrace. Oh well, the SE really lost his great entrance in ROTJ, and that was the whole point all through the OT, who is this jabba creature?

Bail Organa: Should have been a huge part of the PT, but wasted on a good actor like Jimmy Smits.

Governor Tarkin: Zero lines, that is why I thought his cameo was the best in the PT, he couldn't say or do anything that would screw up continuity. Oh wait, he is standing in front of that death they are building, can you hurry up, you only have another 20 years til Episode IV?

I say to every OT cameo and more suited Vader just one word, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

Suited Vader summed it up better than any of us could have.
Post
#220579
Topic
Peter Jackson the new Luca$???
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220579/action/topic#220579
Time
I am not a defender of Peter Jackson, but the difference is that New Line really owns the movies. For SW, Lucas owns everthing, and only distributes through Fox. We don't know if New Line is the one who is really behind the cash cow of LOTR, but I am sure that Jackson has something to do with it.

In the end, atleast LOTR fans can any version in great quality on DVD, O-OT fans have to watch them as bonus material.
Post
#220522
Topic
Watched ROTS on HBO, UGGGH!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220522/action/topic#220522
Time
TPM is probably the best story of the PT, and probably the most faithful to what Lucas wanted to do with the PT, but I think the kiddy tones ruins the movie. Lucas really tried to make a movie for the kiddies, instead of what he did with Star Wars in 1977, make an adult movie for teenagers, and have the kiddies like me jump on the bandwagon.

TPM talks down to the viewer too much, it caters to kids under 10 in too many places, I find it unwatchable at times. But when you get to the meat of the story, it has great scenes smudged in there, and you could see if Lucas focused this movie away from the kiddies, it would be the best of the three.

Jar Jar is everything that is wrong with TPM. It is not just him and his annoyances, but Lucas actually went the route of slapstick humor in a SW movie and that drives me nuts when watching it. Jar Jar was put there just to make people laugh, or try to, and it comes off so bad it actually backfired.

Just take the scene when Anakin first meets Padme in the junkyard, that should be an iconic meeting that you would watch now as this haunting converstaion between the two tragic figures. And what do you get in the backround, Jar Jar doing Three Stooges schtick! He is fumbling and bumbling in the backround knocking everything over in the junkyard, and little Anakin goes, "Hit the nose!" UGGGGGH!

Then the big battle between Gungans/Droids is totally laughable now cause Jar Jar ends up doing comedy in the second half. The whole battle is utterly laughable now and contains no drama whatsoever, and is a symbol of how Lucas forgot that it is the characters and the drama that drive these movies, not the effects and action, they are just icing on the cake.

I guess all the PT movies are bad in their own way. ROTS is just a two hour mess that has to get from point A to point B. AOTC involves a huge subplot of who tried to kill Padme that is dropped in the overall arc of the PT, and makes parts of this movie irrelevant and illogical. TPM is just pure kiddie crap that doesn't hold up well after all these years. If I wanted a kiddie movie George, I would have went to a Rated G movie with my little nephews.

P.S. And I still hate when C-3PO says, "My parts are showing!" Come on George, don't demean 3PO!
Post
#220203
Topic
Watched ROTS on HBO, UGGGH!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220203/action/topic#220203
Time
I feel all your pain!!!!!

But how do these prequels movies always get worse on more viewings? And whenever I want to watch them, it is more like an obligation that I am trying like hell to watch them 1-6. I am forcing myself to watch movies that I know aren't that great, but it is my inner soul that keeps telling me you have to watch them 1-6.

Whenever I watch the OT, I WANT to watch them, I enjoy watching them, after the movie is done, I feel I have utterly enjoyed the last two hours. With the Prequels, I shake my head at the god awful moments in the movies and just wonder, "When did SW become this bad in sections of movies?"

There are some great stuff in the Prequels, but that doesn't make them great movies. I wonder if we could do a fan edit of just stuff that was great from the 3 movies, and have the Prequel Montage before watching Episode 4-6.

I guess I got depressed watching ROTS on HBO because I really thought Lucas was going to hit a homerun with this one, and really had high expectations, and did like it at first. But the more times I see it, UGGGGH.
Post
#220192
Topic
Watched ROTS on HBO, UGGGH!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/220192/action/topic#220192
Time
The reason I started this thread was I was actually a big defender of ROTS last May. I walked out thinking it was a pretty damn good movie, and light years better than TPM & AOTC. At one point I considered myself a 3-6 SW fan. Upon further inspection........I am reconsidering, it may be worse.

It has been on HBO almost every day, so I am able to flip in and out of certain parts just to see if they hold up, and I have to admit I find myself laughing at key parts of the movie now.

-The turn scene is so bad, it is just poorly executed. What should have been the crowning jewel of the PT is just awkward and doesn't make sense.

-The whole Padme/Anakin/Obiwan meeting on Mustafar, which I thought was pretty good opening night, is laughable now, "You will not take her from me!" I really think Hayden is just a bad actor.

-The first 25 minutes in saving Palpatine just drags now, and I think I know why. Opening night it was the first time you get to see Anakin/Obiwan as good friends working together, but now you realize that should have been shown in AOTC, as that whole opening is a waste of time.

-General Grevious is almost a cartoon character, his voice, his movements, another boring part that drags is the fight between him and Kenobi

-Of course the building of Vader and, "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" I crack up everytime. I would give any amount of money to see James Earl Jones face when he got the script for his Darth Vader reading, "This is it George?"

-There are still a couple of really good parts, like when Padme & Anakin stare across the Coruscant sky at each other with the eerie music playing, and notice it works cause there is no dialogue?

But I have to say this movie may be worse than AOTC & TPM, cause ROTS is just one big mess that feels like Lucas was tying together everything he forgot to put in the first two episodes. I know this isn't a pro-ROTS site to begin with, and that was not my point to just bash the movie, but it struck me how much I really liked this last year, and now I think the movie is borderline laughable in so many scenes. ROTS was my last hope at tying the PT to the OT. As Obiwan says in the movie, "Well then you are lost."

I think he is right, and come September 12th, when I have my O-OT DVD's, I will have no traces of the PT whenever I watch SW anymore.

The white flag goes up signally my thoughts on the PT.
Post
#219952
Topic
Sets
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/219952/action/topic#219952
Time
The PT really opened my eyes to how much I loved the sets from the OT. The PT on first glance is really nice to look at, only because places like Kamino, Mustafar, Geonosis are all new looking, so something different is always neat to look at the first time around.

Upon further inspection, the films just don't look real at all. It honestly looks like one big animated film with real actors dubbed in. Now the one thing about real sets, is you are constrained on what you can do, and that is what is so appealing to CG, is that you can do almost anything.

But as I compare the look of the OT to the PT, the PT just doesn't feel real. I can't explain it, but CG movies are just too neat, and just don't have that realistic look to it.

As for models from the OT, don't even get me started on that. The OT space battles are so much more believable. The PT space battles look even more like an animated movie. Just check out the ROTS opening battle compared to the ANH or ROTJ battle, the CG is so obvious.
Post
#219797
Topic
Try to take it easy with the Lucas bashing.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/219797/action/topic#219797
Time
Originally posted by: Dirk Blackpool
If I am add my 2 cents into this.. I must disagree that Lucas is the only one who could have made Star Wars as great as it is. I have no doubt any number of filmmakers from Steven Spielberg to James Cameron could have taken Lucas's initial idea and the creative team of artists he had and come up with something just as good if not better. Especially Spielberg who we have some evidence of proof of that with Raiders of the Lost Ark. Further evidence of this is Empire where his creative input was minimal compared to the other movies. I have really come to believe that he just got really lucky with ANH; luck with circumstance and luck at having assembled a team of unsurpassable creativity.



I agree with you in someways about Lucas and how everything turned out in the OT. I simply look at the PT as man who was past his prime, and by doing everything it did show his flaws that were maybe covered up by others in the OT days. I mean when was the last time Rob Reiner, Francis Coppola, or Brian Depalma directed a really great movie? To me Lucas's glory days were from Grafitti to Raiders.

Was he lucky with SW '77? Sure he was, but sometimes the stars align when classics are made. Johnathen Demme directed Silence of the Lambs in 1991, and is one of my favorite movies. He has never come close to doing anything as great as that before or since, so it was his time where the stars aligned. Andrew Davis directed the Fugitive in 1993, again another classic movie, but what has he done since? Now was he lucky, or just he was the right man at the right time for the job? What I am saying is none of these guys, including Lucas are genius's as directors , but they deserve their due for those respective great movies.

ESB is not a Lucas film in the execution, and that is why it comes off so different than the other 5 SW films. You can see it just doesn't have that post ROTJ kiddie touch to it, little things that make you wince during the movie. I give Lucas credit for conceiving the ESB story, cause he was able to take a risk in his storytelling and go a different way than SW '77, and that is what makes it great.

But Lucas deserves every amount of grief for his post ESB/Raiders of the Lost Ark work, none of it is great. ROTJ is good to me cause it finishes the trilogy, and gives me closure, so it gets a pass in that sense. But as an individual movie to stand its own, even compared to ESB, it pales. The PT are just movies with great moments and really bad moments, and it tells me Lucas was not really in it to make them classics, but just good enough. And he was right as so many PT gushers defense is, "Well, no movie is perfect." "Yeah, the love story isn't that great in AOTC, but what do you want?" "Yeah, there are alot of plot holes that don't tie the trilogies together, but you're looking too much into these movies." and the best is, "Jar Jar was suppose to be annoying, Lucas wanted the audience to hate him because he was never suppose to fit in."

SW & ESB are bonafied classics, and that makes the OT what it is. It gives ROTJ a pass because it fits with the trilogy and gives closure, but the PT did expose that Lucas is no genius, and maybe he was lucky on ANH, but I will still give him his due for that great movie, and still my favorite of all-time. I just don't call him a genius anymore.
Post
#219777
Topic
The last time you saw one of the Star Wars films
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/219777/action/topic#219777
Time
Cause I work so many hours during the week, I usually make time to watch one movie on the weekend to kind of relax. If I don't rent a new movie that is out, I will keep up watching Star Wars, ESB, & ROTJ in that order, and then start over again in the order. As much as I find ROTJ inferior, I never have a problem watching it as part of the trilogy and have never got sick of any of those movies, ever. I tried 1-6 once, and by the start of AOTC, I said to myself, "I only got this average movie, and alittle better ROTS, and then I can get to the good stuff." At that point I stopped and realize that 1-6 doesn't work for me, cause I was yearning to watch the OT movies, and seemed to be watching the PT movies out of obligation.
Post
#219742
Topic
Say the SE release in theaters bombed in 1997?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/219742/action/topic#219742
Time
O-OT fan: Mr. Gary Kurtz, you built a time machine........out of a Delorean?

Kurtz: Yes, and I am going back in time to January 30, 1997 to spread the word that the SE will be the norm in 10 years.

(A van approaches with two men with missile guns)

Kurtz: Oh no, they found me, I don't know how they found me!

O-OT fan: Who?

Kurtz: George Lucas and Rick McCallum, run true Star Wars fan run!

(The two masked man, one that has a very elongated neck shoots Mr. Kurtz, O-OT fan runs into the Delorean, and takes off)

O-OT: Lets see if this thing can do 90!

(Car disappears and reappears in 1997, so the O-OT fan looks for any local theater)

(He finds a theater playing of Star Wars, and runs in the theater)

(On the screen, he sees the new jabba scene)

O-OT: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

(The crowd looks at him ????????????????)

O-OT: Wait til 2005, you guys are really going to hate that line.

Post
#219559
Topic
Say the SE release in theaters bombed in 1997?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/219559/action/topic#219559
Time
I was thinking the other day about if the SE releases to theaters in January 1997 had bombed like ET did in 2002? Now by saying it bombed it is a re-release, so they wouldn't have called it that at the time, but they would just say that many fans have it on video and don't need to see those movies in the theaters again. Cause it definitely didn't demean ET, it is still a classic, but no one showed in 2002.

In some ways I feel I contributed to the success of the SE that I am fighting against now. I saw SW opening night on January 31st, and then saw it again. I then saw ESB, but didn't see ROTJ. But that is three tickets for just me, and Lucas could have taken from that, that I loved them and will watch these versions forever.

So lets just say the SE tanked at the theaters in '97, is Lucas that much of an ego maniac that he still pushes them as the true OT movies now, or does he push them aside because the market spoke, and the O-OT lives on.

God I wish I could go back in time and tell everyone not to show up.
Post
#219156
Topic
Lucasfilm to sell Physical Effects Unit
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/219156/action/topic#219156
Time
Lucas: Now we are selling off the final part of the effects department that deals with models and technology from the OT days.

The O-OT fan: Then the real Mr. Lucas has really died.

Lucas: You don't know the power of CG!!!!!!!!!

The O-OT fan: Yes, but everything looked so realistic in the OT......

Lucas: (Interrupts) Don't say that word anymore, realistic. Everything looks squeaky clean now in the new movies.

The O-OT fan: (Throws down his lightsaber) I am an O-OT fan, not a Greedo shoots first fan, soon no one will like the SE, and this empire you have will be destroyed.

McCallum: So be it, O-OT fan!!!!!!

(Then Gary Kurtz & Irvin Kershner come in and throw McCallum & Lucas down the shaft)

Kurtz: OK, Kersh, get me the original reels of the OT, we have some remastering to do for the new DVD. And all that SE crap, wipe them all out!
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#219150
Topic
OK, the DVDs are coming...so how bad are they going to look?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/219150/action/topic#219150
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I made a thread about this a few weeks ago, about watching all my non-anamorphic DVD's. I was honest, and said they weren't that bad, and I believe just because of DVD resolution, even a non-anamorphic image will look alot better than Laserdisk.

I put in about 15 movies that were non-anamorphic, and was able to compare them with some of the same titles that were anamorphic, and yes there is a difference, but not a huge difference where it is that noticeable, except for someone who really knows his stuff. Now in saying all this, I am not saying the images were great, the fleshtones were a little faded, and the colors didn't jump out at me, but I am dead serious when I mean they were actually not that bad, in fact they were pretty good.

Do I want Anamorphic? Yes. Do I think they would look 10 times better in Anamorphic? Of course. But this is all we have now, and my bootlegs always freeze up, and I am tired of looking on EBAY for new ones, and I just can't stomach Hayden at the end of ROTJ as force ghost, cause I shake my head everytime.

By the way, I have a 50" RCA HDTV (Widescreen). So the fact that is non-anamorphic really affects me.

I still respect someone who isn't buying the DVD's out of pure principle.
Post
#219143
Topic
Moving in from the Basher's Sanctuary (TF.n)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/219143/action/topic#219143
Time
Zombie, the one thing that amazes me on that site to this day is the lack of respect for Star Wars '77. Even if I am the only one defending that movie in those forums, I won't give up, cause they are not going to get away with the crap they say about that great film. "The first hour is too boring, the lightsaber fight is not as fast as ROTS, the effects are so outdated, we want to see Vader meet with The Emperor after the death star explodes." They want to put stupid shit in that movie to move it further from the classic it is, and closer to another run of the mill prequel movie.

Before I got to that site, I never dreamed any Star Wars fans would hate Star Wars! I know many friends growing up who loved ESB & ROTJ more, but they always said it was a classic and a great movie, but they found other things in the sequels that made them like em alittle bit more, and I never had a problem with that.

What really irks me is that Lucas caters to TF.n audience now in all the releases he puts out in good quality when they bury his only classic SW movie he ever directed. And we are the true defenders of the Original Star Wars movie that made it all possible for the sequels, and we get non-anamorphic spit in your face quality. This is the only time I truly have turned on Lucas & the newer fans, and I have to say this has left a bad taste in my mouth as a SW fan. I never thought that would be possible.

I really wish George Lucas could log onto that site and see "ANH...is it meh?" and look at the monsters he has created by making too many changes.