logo Sign In

CO

User Group
Members
Join date
25-Jul-2005
Last activity
22-Apr-2019
Posts
1,568

Post History

Post
#229018
Topic
The "original crawl" on the new DVD is NOT the original crawl! Screenshot inside!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/229018/action/topic#229018
Time
Originally posted by: CO
Originally posted by: Shimraa
omg you cant be serious your mad cause they removed teh starwars title and had it move at a different speed... wow...


No it just shows we are not getting the 1977 version shown in theaters. I bet that don't have the original Aunt Beru voice either. It is not a big deal to me, but it just shows that Lucas is doing a bit of false advertising when he says these are the versions from 77-83, when we are not getting the '77 version.

It is just a mountain of lies & distrust that Lucas has over this particular fanbase that has led us to doubt everything he says, and when we see little things like this, it is just another reason we feel we are getting duped.
Post
#229017
Topic
The "original crawl" on the new DVD is NOT the original crawl! Screenshot inside!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/229017/action/topic#229017
Time
Originally posted by: CO
Originally posted by: Shimraa
omg you cant be serious your mad cause they removed teh starwars title and had it move at a different speed... wow...


No it just shows we are not getting the 1977 version shown in theaters. I bet that they don't have the original Aunt Beru voice either. It is not a big deal to me, but it just shows that Lucas is doing a bit of false advertising when he says these are the versions from 77-83, when we are not getting the '77 version.

It is just a mountain of lies & distrust that Lucas has over this particular fanbase that has led us to doubt everything he says, and when we see little things like this, it is just another reason we feel we are getting duped.


Post
#229016
Topic
The "original crawl" on the new DVD is NOT the original crawl! Screenshot inside!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/229016/action/topic#229016
Time
Originally posted by: Shimraa
omg you cant be serious your mad cause they removed teh starwars title and had it move at a different speed... wow...


No it just shows we are not getting the 1977 version shown in theaters. I bet that don't have the original Aunt Beru voice either. It is not a big deal to me, but it just shows that Lucas is doing a bit of false advertising when he says these are the versions from 77-83, when we are not getting the '77 version.

It is just a mountain of lies & distrust that Lucas has over this particular fanbase that has led us to doubt everything he says, and when we see little things like this, it is just another reason we feel we are getting duped.
Post
#228502
Topic
Those "Takes You Out Of The Moment" Moments...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/228502/action/topic#228502
Time
Hayden in ROTJ, I can't watch this scene, ever!!!!!!!!!! It is so insulting to have a PT character infiltrate the OT movies now. And this change is where I finally broke ranks with Lucas and came to the O-OT side. I didn't mind the '97 SE, although I always preferred the O-OT in the same vein, but once he inserted Creepy Hayden, I said goodbye to the SE.
Post
#228501
Topic
first viewing of the 2006 OOT dvds
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/228501/action/topic#228501
Time
Originally posted by: Ozkeeper

The majority of people that love the original movies as they were seen in cinemas in the 70's and 80's dont vist sites like this one, or even know they exist. People really just don't know or care.

.



Bingo, and I couldn't have said it better myself. Most fans who loved SW growing up, still love it and still watch it, but have moved on in life. I know so many friends who love the OT who saw TPM, and then checked out of SW-ville for good, they never even got to AOTC. That is the reason TPM was the highest grossing prequel, because every SW fan growing up who saw the OT saw this one, and many never came back.

Every friend I know doesn't go to any SW forum, and that is why we will never get a true gauge of what the people say on the internet, to me it is who is the loudest. I respect everyone that comes here and does their part, we got Lucas to put out O-OT in some DVD quality, so the petition worked in that way. But most older fans just don't give shit at this point cause they are probably married and have kids compared to every PT gusher who doesn't have a job yet, and has time to frequent the internet any time during the day and just dream about more OT changes.

I think it is the ultimate catch 22 for every fan who wants this, and I respect anyone who buys them and respect anyone who makes a principled stand not to buy them. The problem is Sir George has a monoploy on all of us, so he can do whatever the fuck he wants. There is no studio we can write letters to, only Lucasfilm. We are at his mercy, and sadly there is nothing we can do about it.
Post
#228191
Topic
first viewing of the 2006 OOT dvds
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/228191/action/topic#228191
Time
Originally posted by: generalfrevious
Unfortunately, this is going to be the last release of the OOT ever. Hopefully these werent made on cheap DVr's and hopefully they won't disintegrate in a few months


That is the sad thing, because I am convinced this won't cause Lucas never sticks to his words. That is the problem with all SW releases on DVD these days, it is a guessing game, and that is unfair to the consumer, because it forces you to possibly buy something cause it 'may never be released again', but then in the same breath says, "Due to popular demand......"

I don't mind when studios re-release DVD's with more bonus material (deleted scenes, documentaries, extra trailers), that is something that a fan can buy if they want more of something they love. But what Lucas is doing is putting out something that is not high quality so if he does put out something in Anamorphic next time, you have to buy it cause it is better quality.

I have lost total respect for the man.

Post
#228166
Topic
first viewing of the 2006 OOT dvds
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/228166/action/topic#228166
Time
Originally posted by: Mike O


He softening. Don't give up yet. God willing, the restoration will come down the pike, and soon. And the bashing of fans of the OOT on the forums of that website borders on frightening.



It is not the point of giving up, it is just so deflating, it almost isn't worth getting that mad over anymore, because the guy is such a douchebag now, I am almost at the point of, "OK, when you do remaster it the right, send me an email, other than that don't do this halfass release."

It such a shame cause Lucas has turned moderate fans like me into a fan that hates the creator now, plain & simple. Everytime he tries to tie the sagas, he keeps pushing me away. I enjoyed the PT movies, of course they are not nearly as great as the OT, or will I ever love them nearly as much either, but I never got mad at Lucas for the underwhleming at times PT movies like many fans did.

But in 2004, when he just put out the SE on DVD, that is when he turned me from a Lucas defender, to a Lucas basher for ruining the OT by putting Hayden in ROTJ. That change alone keeps me from every popping in ROTJ SE, cause it is just so bad it is insulting to take out an actor who is dead now in real life, Sebastian Shaw, and put in Hayden as some gimmick to tie the trilogies that Lucas couldn't do while writing them. This is a gimmick to tie the trilogies, plain & simple, this has nothing to do with vision, or Lucas would have put some 20 year old actor in there in 1983!

Because of Lucas treatment of the O-OT, he has actually turned me off from the PT now, cause now I blame the PT for all these stupid changes cause Lucas keeps tinkering to make them the saga now. So this will never end as each release will feature some new tie-in on one of the OT movies that references the PT, and that is not appealing to me at all.

I know many here hate the PT, and I can't argue with anyone in that respect, cause I don't understand your hatred, but if Lucas would have kept the saga the same all these years: PT + O-OT = Every DVD set, then I think I would be a fan of all 6 movies, and just love the OT more. But now I am an O-OT fan who hates the SE & gets mad at the PT cause Lucas keeps trying to tie it to the OT with more changes.

I can't believe I feel this way towards my 3 favorite movies of all-time, it is a true slap in the face by our beloved creator.


Post
#228139
Topic
first viewing of the 2006 OOT dvds
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/228139/action/topic#228139
Time
Translation: We are getting LEGAL bootleg quality we already have.

Fuck him, I just don't care anymore. Lucas has totally turned me off as a diehard OT fan, and you know what is coming in a couple years:

"Due to popular demand, The O-OT on DVD fully restored."

What can we do anymore, the man is the Emperor and doesn't give a shit about anything but himself.

Goodbye Mr. Lucas.

Post
#223818
Topic
Lucas may have caved, here is a link to Barnes & Noble early review of the O-OT DVD's:
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/223818/action/topic#223818
Time
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Grr, I don't know what to say. Somehow, I doubt it's true, because it's just too good to be true. And if it was, you would think it would be announced. Sigh, but then again, this is Lucas. He never admits mistakes nowadays, he just changes things and hopes nobody will notice anything was bad to begin with. But if it is, this is great, and I don't care if he won't admit anything. But I'm going to withhold any further praise or criticism until it can be confirmed.


I agree, and I don't know what to think about it, but if you go by how Lucas does things, I think it may be true. He always throws things out there under the radar so he doesn't have to admit to anything up front.

Remember for the longest time in 2002, ET DVD was just going to be the SE, but the week before the release, all of the sudden they did a 180, both versions, anamorphic, DTS sound. They heard the fans bitchin, and then just kinda put the release out there, and everyone bought it.

I think Lucas's theory is if we read it and its true, then what on earth can we be mad about in SW-ville for us anymore? I mean, if this is true, then we have won the war, and lets all go home and enjoy HIGH QUALITY O-OT DVDS! I mean isn't what this is all about?

Post
#223811
Topic
Lucas may have caved, here is a link to Barnes & Noble early review of the O-OT DVD's:
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/223811/action/topic#223811
Time
http://boxofficemojo.com/forums/viewtopic.htm?p=1380471#1380471


Follow this link, and read an early review of the O-OT on DVD. This reviewer said Lucasfilm has changed his mind and the O-OT are fully restored in Anamorphic Widesceen & 5.1 DD. Now take this with a grain of salt, but you judge for yourself guys.

If this is true, you all have to admit, this website has to get a lot of the credit for this turnaround.

Post
#222581
Topic
OT.com = TFN?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222581/action/topic#222581
Time
I guess I need to clarify for myself why I have been bringing up many threads pertaining to the TFn and the diehard PT fans and how it effects us. This is why we are in the position we are in now is because there is a diehard fanbase who loves the SE and Lucas is catering to it.

The majority of SW fans like the PT, and love the OT, and I am one of them. I know there are many vocal fans who love and hate the PT, but I don't buy it, I think that is a product of the internet. Most people I know, who don't post on any SW website, love the OT more than anything in the world, and like the PT, or enjoy the PT with a grain of salt. They will never love it, but it is SW, so it is better than half of the crappola movies out there. I know I start many PT bashing threads, but I can still enjoy the movies, cause I dont' hate them, I just think if Lucas delegated more than they would have been better.

But everything we are doing to get the O-OT in good quality is because Lucas is not catering to us anymore, and he is catering to fans on TFn. When I say the fans at TFn, I don't mean them specifically, but that type of fan who just eats up everything Lucas does, and doesn't mind more changes. We are getting the O-OT in non-anamorphic quality because Lucas doesn't feel it is worthy as the SE, but if no one liked the SE, he wouldn't have a leg to stand on. He is all about $$$, and to him, the SE DVD release was a success, and the PT was a success, no matter what we say.

It scares me over there that they want major changes to Star Wars '77, they want more tieins, and you start to wonder, is Lucas going to go to that level? They all love the Hayden insertion in ROTJ, and that came out of nowhere in Lucas updates in 2004. Where does this stop, if Lucas has a faithful following that eat up anything new he does.

To me it is all about needing fans, and Lucas could give a rats ass about anyone who posts here and wants the O-OT. It isn't about the PT, but it is a symbol of how the new fans think, and to me that correlates to how Lucas thinks. The fact that the O-OT is bonus material, non-anamorphic, sold with the SE, tells me Lucas's mindset now that I couldn't put a handle on why he was doing this a couple of years ago, the TFn fans have opened my eyes to who Lucas is catering to.

I know alot of fans here want to come and not hear the PT crapola that alot of TFN members posted in the bashers sanctuary, and I somewhat agree. But this is all relevant in the fight we have in getting the O-OT in good quality, and thier mindset over there is actually who we are fighting against.

I am going to back off in my PT threads, and take a little break in posting here for a while, cause I do understand fans don't want this to be the bashers sanctuary part 2, and that was never my intention. I think I may have irritated alot of you guys in my harshness about what the TFN mindset is doing to SW fandom overall, and I respect this site too much cause it has always been about the O-OT.

But I will say that the O-OT is under assault over there, and their views reflect the EXACT crap Lucas spews. To me they are the greatest window into Lucas's mind, and right now Lucas is like fans at the TFN, "OK you guys have the O-OT on DVD, now stop bitching and moaning, and move on." That only motivates me more never to stop the fight.

Thanks
Post
#222469
Topic
Why the PT fans love the PT so much, not as diehard as we think
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222469/action/topic#222469
Time
Originally posted by: Darth-Adroit

Silent Generation 1925-1945
Baby Boomers 1945-1965
Generation X 1965-1985
Generation Y (Boomer Echo) 1985-2005
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good post DA, and I am 33 years old, and I fall into the Silent Generation category. I never got anything handed to me, started working part time in 7th grade, was one of the few in my high school who actually bought my own car and payed my insurance, when most of my friends parents were buying them nice cars, and now these same friends don't understand the value of money as they are now struggling in their own lives.

I am very old school in my beliefs, and I guess watching movies in general I like movies with a moral message, and the PT has zero of that in it when it comes to Anakin and his action in ROTS.

Of course we are generalizing and many can post here in a certain age group that defies everything we are talking about, but if you look at the majority of what DA said about how each generation acts and what they feel is entitled to them, he hit it on the nose.

Also, I don't think society owes me anything and I am only entitled in life for what I work for. Except the O-OT on DVD in good quality, we are entitled to that! For that I DEMAND IT Mr. Lucas!
Post
#222451
Topic
OT.com = TFN?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222451/action/topic#222451
Time
I think he was probably referring to all the names from TF.n who left there about a month ago. About once a week I check into their forums just to see how one sided they are, and now they is no one left to defend the OT, I am not talking about the O-OT, I am talking about the OT in general.

Just browsing through the Classic Trilogy forum, it is littered with a majority of topics like:

-Is ANH meh?
-Changes to the 2007 SE
-Hayden replacing Sebastian Shaw
-The O-OT on DVD - which has 99% of the posts of fans who are not buying saying to the O-OT fans, "You are getting what you deserve with non-anamorphic!!!"
-Star Wars of A New Hope?
-ANH very SE ending
-Why doesn't Luke cry in ROTJ?
-Official Thread - Discussions to SE #2

The site now is just a bunch of PT fans who hate ANH, or think it is so slow and should be totally updated. Who all think the saga is about Anakin, and find many parts of the OT boring and not relevant to Vader story now (Luke, Leia, and Han going through the death star in SW, The Death Star attack is too long, Han & Leia going through the asteroid field is boring, The Rescue attempt in ROTJ on Han seems out of place now) These are comments I constantly hear from the TFn faithful, it is almost like they receive their talking points like they work for a political campaign.

Message to all of them: You are watching the OT in the WRONG CONTEXT!!! The reason you don't enjoy the Han, Luke, and Leia parts is because you bought into Lucas' Anakin story of all 6 movies now, and you are missing that the OT was always about the good guys, not Vaders story

That site is totally pathetic and I call them a bunch of : SE lovin, PT lovin, O-OT hatin, SW '77 hatin fringe Star Wars fans. And that guys is who George Lucas caters to now. That is what is so damn frustrating about the O-OT in non-anamorphic, Lucas is catering to a bunch of people that hate the only great SW movie he ever directed. Now that is irony.
Post
#222356
Topic
George ruined the drama in his own stories.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/222356/action/topic#222356
Time
Originally posted by: jack Spencer Jr
You know, the more I think about it, the more pissed I get. This helps explain the SE. Lucas was treating them as effects movies, and nothing more. If the Star Wars movies were just eye candy popcorn flicks, then updating the effects would be a good move. Over time, the effects would look dated, so they would need updating to keep them fresh. And if effects was the only reason to watch the movies, then minor changes to the story wouldn't matter because the story was crap anyway, so any change is likely to be for the better.

Unfortunately, Star Wars is much more than a special effects flick and Lucas simply fails to recognize this.



So true, and sadly most Pt fans don't get this and that is how SW has changed. The OT is one of the rare instances of a movie that is considered a 'popcorn' movie that is suppose to be fun to watch that became something much more. That is the great thing about the OT is they are fun movies but have a great drama and good story with great characters all in one package. And it is so rare back then and even today to get that combination into what I now call the summer blockbuster. Most movies get upstaged by effects and that is the selling point and the characters and story take a back seat, but in the OT, the effects are just icing on the cake. If the story and characters and even the mythology didn't hold up after all these years, I wouldn't be wasting my time trying to get them in their original form. To me SW is nothing about effects, even though it revolutionized them at the time it came out. Kinda ironic?
Post
#221702
Topic
George ruined the drama in his own stories.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221702/action/topic#221702
Time
Raiders of the Lost Ark is the purest form of the 1930's serial type movie that Lucas/Spielberg enjoyed as kids. It was fast, action packed, very well paced, and the characters were explained enough but not too much, or not too fleshed out. All that movie needed was for us to love Indiana Jones, and the rest of the movie was gravy for the Spielberg. That is why it is a classic even today, it is what it is.

SW '77 was in some ways the same way. It had the typical Wizard, Princess, Farmboy, Bad Guy with a mask, and Smartass Rogue character, all stereotypes, that weren't totally explored because of the standalone movie. Both movies work to perfection because they are basic in their fundamentals of movie making and don't try to be anything else. The simpleness of Star Wars is what I love, it doesn't try to show Vader conflicted, it doesn't show too much of each character that would have overidden the basic good vs evil story.

ESB is much more than that, and that is why it is great. It takes everything in SW '77 and delves deep into every character, but does it in a adult way where it doesnt come off as laughable. The PT and some respects ROTJ tries to be like SW '77/Raiders in telling a story that is a roller coaster ride for 2 hours, but tries to delve deep into a character like Anakin/Padme/Vader and what drives them to what they do, but those two styles don't mix.

Look at every Anakin/Padme dramatic scene in the PT, it comes as laughable every time, because the serial style of movie is not meant to be a character piece, it is a macro story-type movie just like SW '77/Raiders where if you like the characters, you're hooked. That is why many fans like myself can still watch the PT for the popcorn entertainment of them for 2 hours, but laugh everytime they try to get dramatic to give it that emotional weight ESB had. The problem is it is laughable, and it aint a comedy.
Post
#221645
Topic
George ruined the drama in his own stories.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221645/action/topic#221645
Time
(Originally posted by:jack Spencer Jr)
I find this all rather interesting. First of all, who'd've thought it was Indiana Jones that ruined Star Wars and to be honest, I thought Raiders had that undercurrent Kutz speaks of. Maybe it wasn't as deep, but it was there, so why the hell Lucas thought it wasn't important baffles me.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I remember reading that quote about a year ago and it makes total sense, and it is how I have perceived the summer blockbuster for the past 10 years: All action and effects, and no substance or character development.

Just look at all the big hit summer blockbusters since Jurassic Park redefined CG, which I say is one of the few movies to use it correctly without making it a CG fest movie. Twister, Independence Day, Godzilla, Armageddon, The Perfect Storm, The Day after Tomorrow, Mission Impossible 1-3, The Prequels, and I am sure I am leaving some out.

These are all movies that would have no chance of being made in the 1970'/80's. They all heavily rely on CG to sell the movie, not the screenplay, not the characters, but just look at the trailers for all those movies an it is some CG effect that gets everyone up in arms to how cool it looks. I remember The Day After Tomorrow Trailer had the huge tidal wave over New York City that was the huge attaction. None of these movies will be even remembered 20 years from now because they will look outdated, and cause there is no attention to character development or a cohesive screenplay, there will be nothing redeeming about them in later viewings.

That is what Lucas & The PT fans miss about the OT movies, sure the effects & action were great, but the movies had great characters, an interesting story, and had heart & drama, and that is what I still love about the movies today, not the effects.

20 years from now nobody is going to be wowed about the look of Coruscant or the endless fight on Mustafar, cause that eye candy will be replaced by some new eye candy CG technology in 2010 or 2015. I think of so many blockbusters that have made huge money in the last ten years, but none of them will be remembered, other than say: Lord of the Rings & The Matrix, and probably Spiderman, cause they sold the movies on the characters and story, and the effects were just gravy. Just like the OT.
Post
#221642
Topic
Why the PT fans love the PT so much, not as diehard as we think
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221642/action/topic#221642
Time
Originally posted by: skye_solo
Well, I dont know about these young kids idolizing Anakin. However, when i was little, during the time of the OT, my favorite character was Darth Vader. Plus I was a girl, so I don't know what I was thinking exactly, but I think it may have to do with little kids wanting to be powerful. I've heard it described before too. From the age of around 3-5 I liked Darth Vader the best, then after that I moved on to Luke, Leia and Han being my faves. Little kids desire power because they don't have any, and are dependent on everyone else for everything practically in their lives.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The reason we loved Vader as kids cause he was just a cool bad guy and nothing is wrong with that. He wasn't this guy who had all these emotional problems who has ethical dilemmas with killing Tuskens, Younglings, and choking his wife, that is the difference.

Vader to us was just another cool bad guy who we all tried to do his breathing on the playground. That is healthy to like badguys, heck, I loved The Joker in Batman '89 only because he was just a cool bad guy. But in the OT days, as much as we love Vader, we had good guys like Luke to offset Vader and show to the public, this is an example of a good guy.

The difference with PT Anakin/Vader is it comes down to morals now, and just read my sig, and that my beef with the whole story. I will go as far to say I think Lucas should take Anakin out as Force Ghost all together now if someone watches it 1-6, cause he does not deserve to sit there smiling next to Kenobi and Yoda after what he did.

Doing bad things in war time and losing ones self to power can happen to anybody, and there is something redeeming about that. Killing a bunch of children and choking your wife, are you telling me I am suppose to root for this guy in ROTJ, and then sit there and enjoy his conversation to his son that he tried to kill Lukes mom? To me that is moral bankruptcy at its worst, and it is everything I didn't envision Darth Vader doing. That is the difference between kids today who love Anakin and us liking Vader at 10 years old.
Post
#221544
Topic
Why the PT fans love the PT so much, not as diehard as we think
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221544/action/topic#221544
Time
Originally posted by: jack Spencer Jr
Originally posted by:

See, that's precisely why I don't like the PT. Because I've come to regard them as not Star Wars, I don't care what it says on the DVD case (in the store, mind you. I don't own them) Hence why I frequent a OT forum. Heh.


I agree with you, and I still consider the saga 4-6, cause it just doesn't work 1-6 for me. Just cause I can enjoy them as guilty pleasures, doesn't mean I love them. When Back to the Future III comes on TV, I will watch it, but I know in my heart is inferior to Part II, and doesn't even come close to the original, but it is part of the series, so I can enjoy that as a guilty pleasure too.

But the bottom line for me is, will I sit down 10 years from now and say to myself, "You know what I am in the mood for, The Phantom Menace, I have been dying to watch it!!!" That aint going to happen with any of the Prequels, cause they won't pass the test of time with me, just like Back to the Future III, and just like many of the Rocky Sequels, I can watch them all when they are on Cable on a Saturday Afternoon, but I have yet to yearn to watch them on DVD years after their release.

Back to the Future, Rocky, Superman: The Movie, Raiders of the Lost Ark are all movies that I yearn to watch on DVD cause they are great movies, but their sequels are all guilty pleasures. The difference with the OT movies, especially SW & ESB is they are great movies that aren't guilty pleasures, I still yearn to watch all 3, and that is why I will always see the saga 4-6, and the rest as EU crap.
Post
#221521
Topic
Why the PT fans love the PT so much, not as diehard as we think
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221521/action/topic#221521
Time
Originally posted by: Mr Bungle
If I have to be honest I like the PT though I dont worship every second of it and consider them to be cinematic masterpieces, but I find the story interesting enough and find them enjoyable enough to watch as entertainment for two hours,and as I explained before in the other thread I dont particulary care/have no interest in/for the whole 12hr saga bit so I dont need or want to get into it that deep and be as "geeky" like they do at TF.n. and other places


I feel the same way, and it is the story that interests me being part of the SW lore, and not the characters, and that is a huge negative to any movie, let alone three.

Every person I know who is a SW fan loves the OT, and thinks the PT is good/alright/entertaining. They all cut it slack because it is SW, and that is the ironic thing about the term 'basher' cause if most fans saw Episode I as the #1 movie right out of the gate, they would be asking for my money back. But OT fans give the PT alot of slack cause they want to see it as the saga 1-6, but through time, realize it just doesn't work for them, so they kinda look at the PT as popcorn movies, or dare I say a 'guilty pleasure'

And that is how I feel about the prequels, I can enjoy the movies if I dont' look too deep into them, if I don't invest myself into the characters, and if I take them for what they are, "Not great movies, but they still are in that galaxy, far, far, away, so I can enjoy it."

That to me is how the majority perceive the PT, I don't think the majority are the fans that love it to death and hate it to death. The big argument I hear at TF.n is how will the PT be perceived in 10-20 years, cause the OT was not a classic until the 90's. And that is where I disagree with them, and they are not understanding their SW history.

SW '77 was always a classic, and that has never changed. The only thing that has shifted in 25 years is ESB & ROTJ, in my opinion. Most, not all, fans probably loved ROTJ more as a kid than ESB, cause of the lighter tone, and as time wore on and we got older, we noticed how great ESB really was. Plus back in 1980 nobody was expecting a cliffhanger ending, so they felt cheated, but as part of the trilogy, it works just fine.

The PT is different cause everyone is a SW fan now, and we knew in general what the story was for us. I have yet to talk to a person who says 7 years later, "I thought TPM was alright, but in 2006, man it is a great movie!" The PT gushers don't even say that, they say, "The movie is better to me now, cause I understand alot of what Lucas was doing after ROTS." But except for the few wackos, TPM & AOTC are pretty average movies to the masses. And I believe ROTS is on that way for many, but will always stand out as the best to the majority of PT fans just cause it is the meat of the story. They don't care if its a great movie, but it has the duel, Vader being built, Order 66, and the kids being born. To me what PT fans love is the great moments they feel the movies possess, I just look at SW & ESB are just great overall movies, and that goes a long way 20 years from now.
Post
#221463
Topic
Why the PT fans love the PT so much, not as diehard as we think
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221463/action/topic#221463
Time
This is one response from a SW thread on another message board of a SW fan who defends all 3 prequels movies:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well im only 22 so I didnt really grow up with the OT, though I did start watching it at a young age, probably before i was 9-10. Flashyness has nothing to do with it. I could really care less about cgi. In fact I think it really takes away from the movies. For me its all about the concepts. The love scenes in the movies may have been horrible but, I think its the fact that these movies showed how cool the republic was before the empire came about is what does it for me.
I like the underworld movies because I think the story is pretty cool and I can Imagine the world and how cool it would be to explore them. As far as the movies themselves go, they are just popcorn flicks with not much in character development or real substance to them. I guess thats how I feel about the PT. Cool concept but the dilivery is just ok.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is my point about the PT fans, do you see them loving these movies like us in 20 years? I think 'creepy' was a strong word, and I may have to change it to 'not as diehard as Lucas thinks'

This a guy defending the PT movies, who calls them popcorn entertainment with not much character development, but cool concepts. That is the great thing about the OT, they are popcorn films taken to another level, and that is why we still love them. If they were your typical summer blockbuster, this site wouldn't exist, and the OT would be just another trilogy loved by a niche base. And this is the fanbase that Lucas caters to now, and gives them high quality DVD's, fans who think their good popcorn movies.
Post
#221460
Topic
George ruined the drama in his own stories.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221460/action/topic#221460
Time
Originally posted by: Tiptup

Also, the "Clone Wars" themselves actually made no sense in the PT and aren't consistent with how Luke and Obiwan discussed them. They weren't a series of "wars" since they were just one war and nobody lost anything important on either side except money. It was fought purely by totally-expendable droids and totally-expendable clones. How boring is that? No normal people like you or me could have ever gotten "involved" in such a ridiculous video game war. Based upon what George Lucas showed us, I don't see how, when, or why Luke's uncle could have ever told Anakin to have "not gotten involved" unless we assume Obiwan was lying to Luke about that too. What a freakin’ disappointment.

[/rant]


I agree that the Clone Wars were really irrational in some respects if you think about it, and it really exposes Lucas's writing skills to me that started going bad in ROTJ. Lucas to me has great ideas, he comes up with some really great stuff for this universe, but when he writes and puts it all together as a cohesive story, it's a frickin mess!

ROTJ is where this all started I think. But it was only one movie, the OT was still relatively general, and it was more of tying up everything instead of developing the plots, so you don't see how badly that movie is written. I love ROTJ, but there is alot of just bad writing in a story-sense of the word. Lukes rescue in Jabba's palace, I still dont know what the plan was? Leia saves Han as Jabba and his boys sit behind a curtain, why would they let her get Han out and then reveal themselves? Yoda telling Luke the only way he can become a jedi is by confronting Vader, yet thats the reason he wouldn't let him leave in ESB? Vader wanted to take out The Emperor in ESB, but now is loyal to him when he first meets Luke? Leia says after Luke tells her he is her brother, "Somehow I always knew." You did Leia, then why did you kiss him in ESB? And then ObiWan, "From a point of view" That was a cop out, and could have been written so much better, like it is ObiWan who is feeling so much guilt for everything that happened that Luke is the only hope.

ESB set all these plot points up that took SW '77 to another level, and that is pretty good to do with a standalone film in which I don't believe Lucas had any notes for a sequel. In that respect ESB is very consistent to SW '77, and does a good job of not making you question plot holes. But ROTJ exposes Lucas for the bad writer that he is, and if you look at the last 4 SW movies, the plots and the cohesion of the stories just don't make total sense.

I always ask the PT gushers the big question, why didn't Anakin question Palpatine about how this trick of saving people once? Why doesn't he atleast explore if this is true before going off and killing a bunch of jedi kids and choking his wife. He doesn't ask once, "So how do you do this, because I am about to turn on every Jedi I have been friends with since 10 years old." That to me is just plain stupid, and makes the greatest villain Darth Vader, look like a complete moron.

If you really look at the history of the SW saga, this crap started building in ROTJ, and then continued in the SE, and then the PT. And for years I questioned how the PT could be this illogical, I forgot to check if Lucas has done anything remotely great since ROTJ? If you really think about it, he should have stopped at ROTJ, and we would all think he was still God.
Post
#221361
Topic
George ruined the drama in his own stories.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221361/action/topic#221361
Time
There was really no way Lucas could have done this trilogy well without spoiling something, it is just too hard, and too much stuff would left out that ties it up. But that is the whole point why it should be watched 4-6, 1-3, the PT is a simple backstory, and if it were better, it would work great with the OT.

I get very annoyed with the PT gushers now who say that new fans have to watch it 1-6 now, when 99% of SW fans who finally saw Episode III saw it the other way around. I say to them, "4-6, 1-3 produced the the greatest set of movies at the box office of a 6 movie saga, and now you don't want anyone to see it that way?"

The PT is not supposed to have huge revelations, it is just suppose to make you look at the OT in a better way, and make you say, "So that is what is behind that certain plot point all years, that is actually pretty interesting now."

But by Lucas giving all these petty tie ins of Jango Fett, Anakin making C-3PO, and Yoda having good relations with the wookies, it only cheapened the OT, cause it looked like he was running out of ideas. Lucas was probably like, "Well I don't know who originally owned C-3PO, let me have Anakin build him!" "I have to get this wookie planet in one of the movies, let me have Yoda go there." These things bring zero depth to the saga, and make it just plain stupid.

Stuff like the rise of Palpatine as a politican to Emperor, that is interesting! I never pictuerd The Emperor that way, and now that he rose to power, instead of just seizing power gives depth to the OT now for ROTJ. Take away Jango Fett and that stupid tiein, but the Clone Troopers being on the republics side, and Kenobi flying to Kamino to see them make the clones, gives an added depth to the OT. I now think at the end of ANH, that Vader goes right to Kamino to see how many clones he is going to need to rebuild the Empire, before he gets yelled at by The Emperor after the Death Star is blown up.

There are so many missed opportunities at EXPANDING the OT, and that is what a backstory does, we already know what happens, but we don't how it happens. Now we just have this small universe that almost everyone knows everyone, and it has driven me to see them as two trilogies that I don't want to connect.

Watching the series 1-6 means you are watching a linear story, and these 6 movies laid out by Lucas is by no means linear.
Post
#221255
Topic
PT Bashing? What brought it back?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221255/action/topic#221255
Time
Originally posted by: iamstillhiro1112
Originally posted by: CO
I've heard a few posters in the forum who claim they won't buy the legit OOT and continue bootlegging so it's good to hear someone will actually pay to see Star wars still. I'd like to think star wars fans aint gonna all be cheap asses like people who refuse to buy music cd's and will only download bootlegs.



I do own the SE too, cause I don't hate all the changes with a passion, just the ROTJ changes, I can't watch that version. I just want the option, thats all of us fans can choose which version in great quality to watch.

And that is why I think this whole vision thing by Lucas is a bunch of bullshit, and the PT fans have bought into it. All it is for Lucas to hope that all the public thinks of the saga as 1-6, so he can sell 6 DVD's in a boxset instead of two different trilogies to different markets. The whole changes thing in 2004 were just another attempt at getting fans to now look at the saga as 1-6, instead of putting out movies that link up, and everyone would see it 1-6 regardless.

I still think Lucas should have made the PT its whole seperate entity. And make the story more macro like the OT. Have the main theme the falling of the republic with the Empire rising, and that would link up with the OT story of rebels vs empire. The story would still revolve around Anakin/Kenobi/and Padme, but it wouldn't be just about Anakins story, it would give each character ample time like the OT.

The OT story was never about Lukes life, cause it only showed about 3 years of it. It was about how a bunch of underdogs can beat back a tyrannical empire, and that was the moral. Now we have 3 movies about the micro story of Darth Vader, and three movies about the macro story of rebels vs empire. How the hell are we suppose to link that up and watch it seamlessly 1-6?

With Lucas doing a macro PT story like I stated, the whole Jake Lloyd aged Anakin could have been dropped, and the events of the PT could have taken place with 3-5 years like the OT, and TPM could have gotten off to a great start, instead of being a setup to another setup movie.

Lucas is trying to sell this 1-6 shit as the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker, and part of the fanbase aint buying it, and many older fans I know who didn't even see the prequels could care less about Young Anakins' problems. Even my 8 year old nephew only likes ROTS from the PT, so he has even figured out where the story begins! Lucas is pushing 1-6 instead of letting the market decide, and just giving the fans everything in good quality. Thats the problem.
Post
#221230
Topic
PT Bashing? What brought it back?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221230/action/topic#221230
Time
Originally posted by: DorK313
I like my bootlegs and have considered just sticking with them because I don't want to have to buy the SE again.

I understand the dislike for the PT, I really do and I agree with most points brought up about them. I also hate that the better movies, 4-6, keep getting changed to fit better with the shitty one, 1-3. I was just wondering why this topic was brought back with such force but having ep3 play on hbo daily and new visitors to the site makes sence.


That's fair to wonder about the glut of PT bashing lately. But trust once Labor Day roles around, and we start getting reviews on the O-OT DVD's on various websites, the PT won't even be talked about for a long time here.

But I'll be honest, if anyone wants me to knock it off with the PT bashing threads, just let me know, cause if you guys are getting sick of them, I will stop, I don't mind being criticized. Though in my topics, I try to put a different spin other than bitchin the movies aren't great, but why do these fans love them? What do they find great?

And the big whopper, why does these morons find The Original Star Wars from 1977 meh? That is a topic on TF.n, and ALOT of the PT gushers agree, and that really drives me nuts, cause that tells me there are watching it all for effects and action. And fans who do that will move on to the next CG flavor of the month movie.
Post
#221221
Topic
PT Bashing? What brought it back?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/221221/action/topic#221221
Time
It definitely was ROTS on HBO which is on almost everyday by the way! I admit to starting more PT bashing threads than most around here, but I am only mad at the PT cause it changed the OT movies we have to watch now. And because of the PT, we have to get shit quality for the OT DVD's. I make up these threads to prove that this audience is overrated in their love for the movies, and way overestimated in the size. They are niche fanbase, that I feel alot of them won't care about the PT 20 years from now. Sure there are diehards, but that is the case with any movie.

I have nothing against the PT if it didn't change the OT, and I have never been one of those fans who are mad at Lucas cause he didn't do this in the PT, or that in the PT, the PT is what it is, and I say take it or leave it. But if it weren't the PT, Lucas would have never been so dead set on the OT change as the norm, cause he wouldn't be trying the tie the sagas together. Now it is for every release, "what can I screw up more on the OT movies that will now jive with the PT." Example # 1: Hayden in ROTJ, I hate that change with a passion, and it forces me to watch crappy bootlegs of my favorite movies, that constantly freeze up.

I will be buying the Sept 12th Non-Anamorphic Release, and cause of that it just reminds that Lucas has totally shifted to the PT audience and giving them everything we want. And that is a slap in the face to all these fans who bought everything from 1977-1997. Unfortunately we are married as a fanbase now, but I am going to expose that they are not as diehard as Lucas thinks.