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25-Jul-2005
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Post
#235069
Topic
Audience reaction to the reveal?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/235069/action/topic#235069
Time
It is funny cause I am a huge OT fan, but the Vader reveal I always thought was overrated. Maybe because I saw SW in '77, and that is my favorite movie of all-time, and I know Lucas did not intend Luke/Vader to be son/father in '77.

I always thought that ROTJ could have revealed that Vader was lying to Luke, cause that would have been cool. It would have made ESB so much more powerful cause not only did Vader physically beat Luke on Cloud City, but it F**ked him up mentally as to who Lukes father was.

It could have created a great decision in ROTJ for who Luke should trust, ObiWan or Vader? Maybe even ending the saga as Luke kills Vader and we never know if he had killed his father, or he killed the man who killed his father? Just a different twist I guess.

As for all the redemption of Darth Vader crap in ROTJ, and now the full of arc of the PT, that story does nothing for me, SW movies shouldn't be that personal, cause the way Lucas makes the movies, those scenes just come off as goofy compared to the powerful dramatic scenes in SW & ESB.

Post
#234551
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234551/action/topic#234551
Time
Actually I am one of the many that actually hate Jar Jar with a passion, cause his whole antics showed me that Lucas really didn't have a handle on how these movies should play out.

If you watch TPM, Jar Jar is not funny at all, and he practically ruins every scene, and what bothers me is he ruins what could have been three dramatic scenes.

-When Padme & Anakin first meet, should have been very iconic and should have foreshadowed how everything goes wrong because of these two individuals for the rest of the saga. Instead you get Jar Jar doing slap stick comedy in the backround while fumbling & bumbling into all the tools and objects in the junkyard.

-When they are all at the dinner table at Anakins house and it is a pivotal scene in the movie with good dialogue between Anakin & QuiGon. But through that we get Jar Jar spitting out his tongue, belching, and saying 'scuse me' while QuiGon grabs his tongue.

-The Gungan battle vs The droids starts off so great, but ends with total comedy schtick with Jar Jar jumping up and down with a gun wrapped around his foot killing a couple of droids within seconds, just an awful ending to a great setup.

If you watch The Original SW Lucas knew when it was time for comedy and time for drama. Just watch the ObiWan/Luke talk about Lukes father in ObiWans hutt. Right before it gets to the key conversation in the movie, C3PO says, "If you don't need me anymore sir, I am going to shut off for a while." That is Lucas understanding in 1977 that we don't need to hear annoying C-3PO while Obiwan talks about the force, the lightsaber, and Lukes father being killed by Vader.

The ending of The Original SW as Luke is trying to blow up the death star, it keeps cutting back to Leia and C3PO, but they say nothing, there is no need to hear them talk, just the look of despair on their face makes the drama in the scene so much better.

I often wonder what happened to Lucas from 1977 to 1999, and how he could make such a perfect movie where everything is done right in terms of comedy, drama, and action for the Original SW, and how everything is done totally wrong in terms of comedy, drama, and action in TPM.

TPM is a dud in my view, cause the main characters are QuiGon & Jar Jar, and Padme, and two of them are irrelevant after seeing the PT. That movie is not even a good setup movie.


Post
#234398
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234398/action/topic#234398
Time
I will put in my vote as my favorite prequel being AOTC. Of course like everyone has said, this is no endorsement that the movie is great, but I was thinking about all 3, and probably this one to me would be the one I rank as the best.

TPM just has too much Jar Jar, and it annoys the shit out of me everytime I watch it, I just can't get past how annoying he is and how he ruins every scene. I think it comes down to this:

What annoys you more? The AOTC romance? or Jar Jar in TPM?

I can put up with the romance in AOTC, so that is probably why I rank it higher. I do like the whole Kamino sequence and the Clones, it was one of the few things from the PT that added to the OT. If you think of the saga 1-6, when Vader flies away after the Death Star has blown up, one scenario is he goes right to Kamino and tells them to get some more Stormtroopers ready, cause the Empire just lost all of them.

I guess another reason I like AOTC, is that is the only movie that ObiWan is really the lead character in the movie. Anakin/Padme are just in boring scenes falling in love, and ObiWan is really getting all the good action scenes, and he was the only character I truly cared for in the PT.

I do like the ending montage once Dooku goes to Coruscant, and John Williams score is great too, but enough about AOTC, I don't want it to come off that I actually think it is a great movie. To me it is like an election that you don't like any of the candidates, but you vote for the lesser of the two evils.
Post
#234391
Topic
Expecting too much of George Lucas?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234391/action/topic#234391
Time
Originally posted by: Tiptup
Hmm, perhaps if each Star Wars film, regardless of overlapping characters or themes, had been created with the idea of being a standalone adventure, the series would have benefited greatly. Instead of being a big, illogically constructed saga, it would have been a series of individual tales in the same universe, along the lines of Frank Miller’s Sin City comic-novels (which are great). Though, I do like the rigid nature of a saga over individual stories since it means less quantity and more quality usually.
.



That is the double edge sword now is that if you look at the saga 1-6, you have to compare the movies, they have to flow seamlessly, and that is why it is so jarring for many.

Lucas should have constructed the saga as all standalone movies with the bigger picture as the theme for each movie (good vs evil or rebublic vs empire, or rebels vs empire)

The biggest problem with TPM & AOTC is you are waiting for the true story, Anakins turn in ROTS, and it makes these movies inferior from a plot point point of view. The problem with the overall saga now is that he focused on the life of Anakin Skywalker, and 6 movies is just a bit too much for that, because it has too much filller time involved.

If Lucas constructed three movies about Padme, Anakin, and Obiwan as 3 different adventures with the main theme in mind that the republic is crumbling and the empire is taking power, he could have done so much more interesting things. TPM is littered with so much pointless stuff cause Anakin is ten years old, and can't really do anything yet. He can't be this powerful jedi, he can't fall in love, and he can't start talking to Palpatine yet, so it leaves the whole movie with the star just being 10 years old and being a cute kid. I could have read that in SW Insider, now get to the real story.

In a sense, the OT is 2 different stories, that are set upon the backdrop of rebels vs empire. SW '77 is a standalone movie, and ESB & ROTJ are a 2 part movie that have totally different themes, but still are about rebels vs empire. Where ROTJ fails is that it has to tie up too many things from ESB and that is where the whole focus of the movie gets lost. They have to rescue Han, Luke has to go back to Dagobah, and he has to confront Vader, all interesting stuff, but there were so many more adventures Lucas could have done with our three heroes, instead of just making it about the redemption of Darth Vader. To me, that whole plot point limited the saga to just one story, and made everything in Lucas's mind, minor and not as necessary to show, so he leaves the Clone Wars to the cartoons, the birth of the Rebellion to the deleted scenes, and the Force Ghost dialogue with QuiGon/Yoda to the ROTS Novel.

I would have loved to have 6-9 SW movies as just individual standalone movies with the basic macro story in mind, good vs evil, and that is what was so great about the Original SW. Now I am not naive to think they would all be as great as SW in 1977, cause it is tough to keep churning out classic movies, but I wouldn't compare them like I do now, cause they wouldn't be one continuous story, they would just be a bunch of different stories in the same universe with the same characters.
Post
#234381
Topic
Quit Whining
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234381/action/topic#234381
Time
Originally posted by: Whiners
You guys are all a bunch of whiners. George Lucas changed the Star Wars movies so he could present them as he wanted to, and then you guys want the original versions. And now you're getting them, exactly the way they were showing them in theaters back in 1977, 1980, and 1983. But are you guys happy? No. You can't stop bitching about the fact you didn't get them in some certain format.

How could you people be so selfish? You've been whining for the original versions, you're getting the original versions, and now you want more. You actually, for once, WANT them to edit the original versions to your liking instead of getting the exact same experience you got in theaters almost 30 years ago. You're getting what you asked for, yet you want more. You people make me sick.

I can imagine the person who started this site. He's probably some 40-year old virgin who has the stature of a baby and lives with his mom, crying in his stroller "I WANT DA ORIGINAL STAR WARS MOVIES!!! WAH!!!" while his embarrased mom tries to shut him up when she's about to see Revenge of the Sith.

You know, Greedo's always been one of my favorite Star Wars characters, but ever since the special editions everyone's been whining about him shooting first and missing, and now he's changed into a one-dimensional character who misses all the time just because you people can't accept the fact your precious Star Wars movies were changed.

Quit bitching, you selfish bastards. Just shut up. You've gotten enough from your whining, enough to close down this stupid site once and for all.

Oh, and are you going to delete my post? Hmmm? Is that how you're going to counter me? Because I thought we believed in free speech, and seeing how this post hasn't broken any of the rules (maybe cursing, but that could easily be edited), I don't see any reason in it being deleted. Oh wait, no, you guys probably don't believe in free speech, and that's probably why you keep bitching at George Lucas for original versions when he's free to release whatever he wants. Fucking communists.



Sounds like somebody had nothing better to do than write up some rant about something he doesn't care about. If you re-read your post, you may want that 45 minutes back in your life you wasted writing this. But if it is done as just a joke, it is actually pretty funny.
Post
#234377
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234377/action/topic#234377
Time
Originally posted by: boris
Every one of them made more then the OT movies, though.


Actually that isn't true, The Original SW still beats them all even without adjusting for inflation:

Unadjusted:

SW - 461 million
TPM - 431
ROTS - 380
AOTC - 310
ROTJ - 309
ESB - 290

Adjusted for Inflation:

SW - 1.1 Billion
ESB - 628 million
ROTJ - 601
TPM - 542
ROTS - 380
AOTC - 342

My theory is the Original SW had a mass audience of fans that loved the good vs evil story, and that is why no SW movie has even come close to it. ESB/ROTJ/TPM have roughly the same audience of SW diehards that love the OT and were dying 16 years for a SW film. After TPM, alot of OT fans bailed on the series, and the only ones left to see AOTC/ROTS are the OT fans like me who were going to see all 3 PT movies regardless of the quality, and the PT gushers who loved the movies, hence why the audience slowly shrank. My theory is the PT gushers are not nearly as big as the OT fans in the early 80's.
Post
#234297
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234297/action/topic#234297
Time
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen
The L.A. crowd that fills Graumann's Chinese on opening nights reacted best of the three to Attack of the Clones, perhaps feeling it was a major improvement over Episode I, perhaps reacting to the genuinely StarWarsian goofiness of it.

It remains to this day my far-and-away favorite of the prequels .... but, tellingly, I can't so much as sit through it nowadays.


.


Isn't it funny how TPM made the most money of any PT movie, but you constantly hear from the defenders that ROTS is the best?

The reason TPM made the most money of any PT movie was because EVERY SW fan saw it atleast once, and many walked away for good.

TPM - 431 million
AOTC- 310 million
ROTS- 380 million

If you think about it ROTS should have made the most money out of the three. This was the reason we wanted the PT, we wanted to see why Anakin became Darth Vader. And the fact that it doesn't even come close to TPM, which was so reviled in '99 because of Jar Jar and many other problems, tells me that alot of older fans who loved SW back in the 70's/80's just walked away in the summer of 99 from SW.

Now there were the faithful naive fans like me who saw every PT movie hoping Lucas would get this one right, and that is why no PT movie bombed at the box office. But the sad fact that a SW movie that has 2 hours of an annoying Jar Jar Binks, and overlong Pod Race, and weird looking Yoda puppet, a monotone boring Padme, and a little kid who cant act, and it still made the most of the 3 PT movies, tells me Lucas lost more fans with the PT than gained them.



Post
#234294
Topic
Expecting too much of George Lucas?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234294/action/topic#234294
Time
Originally posted by:Tiptup
In terms of the clear alterations to the story, every story changes at some point. A story’s nature changing between different installments isn’t a crime. The important part is to decide if we like what we see. We can judge the quality of a story at the time it changes and whether we still like it or not. In that sense, I believe the invention of Vader being Luke’s father in Empire was a brilliant decision and addition to the Star Wars story. Sure, it didn’t work with the previously delivered dialogue in the original film, but I always logically knew there could be many explanations for what Ben said that would keep his statements truthful. Unfortunately, Jedi let us down in regard to such an explanation.

Return of the Jedi added the idea that Leia had been Luke’s sister the whole time (which even as a kid made me think WTF?), but I could still take that concept and not let it ruin the story for me. Jedi wasn’t nearly as good as the two preceding films either, but it still had the great theme of self-sacrifice for our heroes and it displayed the great value of redemption which made the film great to me. When Luke turned himself in to face the Emperor and when the Rebels decided to stick around and possibly face certain doom I’m always on the edge of my seat. When Luke is tempted by the dark side in Jedi it also gives me goose bumps. Lastly, Luke reaching out to Vader by taking a stand is perhaps the best climax Star Wars could have had. So, with all of that in mind, I still consider Return of the Jedi to be a great film, just not on the same level as the two that came before.


Lastly, about Darth Vader, I highly dislike the idea of him being the central focus of the “saga.” It’s insulting to the very purpose of the original story of Star Wars. Even in Empire and Jedi, with his increased focus, he was never the main character and served more as a means to apply pressure to the heroes. That’s why I don’t believe the prequel trilogy should have focused much on Vader if at all. But I didn’t make those decision . . . a certain someone else did . . . .



Those are very good points, and as a trilogy of 4-6, the story works fine with me. I love the fact that SW is a standalone movie, but in the same respect I have no problem that ESB & ROTJ really work as one movie in that respect.

The OT is great cause Lucas was making them on the fly, and he put everything into each movie to make them as great as possible. With the PT, he knew ROTS would be plot point heavy, so TPM & AOTC kinda leave you with that anticlimatic feeling before ROTS. In a sense, I think the only way to enjoy the PT is to watch all 3 movies in a row in one sitting. As for the OT, they are better individual films cause Lucas was not leaving anything out for the overall trilogy, and that is why ROTJ is the worst of the three, cause Lucas was out of ideas by that point.

If Lucas knew he would have been making a trilogy in 1977, he would have probably taken out the whole death star space battle and saved that for ROTJ, and the ending of SW would have just been rescuing the princess from the Death Star, and getting out alive.....to be continued..... To me, that would make The Original SW very anticlimatic, and it would probably fit better when watching the trilogy overall, it would take away from each individual movie.

Post
#234246
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234246/action/topic#234246
Time
What did the Prequels need?

CHARACTERS WE CAN LOVE AND ROOT FOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lucas never sold me on any of the characters in the PT, except for ObiWan Kenobi, and when their fates are met at the end of ROTS, I felt nothing for them. Anakin should have been likable in AOTC, not whiny. He should have been a really likable guy that had these issues that many great men possess. Lucas made him whiny in AOTC, and I never gravitated to him, I never really cared about him, other than how he became Darth Vader. When he was finally lying there legless on Mustafar yelling ObiWan I was saying, "Thank god, put him out of his misery!"

Padme was another character I never really cared about. In TPM she is either in disguise or just talking monotone with no personality at all. In AOTC, she just falls in love with Anakin I guess for his looks, and by the time she dies in ROTS I could have cared less.

Lucas never made me care for the Jedi either in the PT, and when Order 66 happens, it is just a bunch of nameless jedi getting killed. Lucas should have picked 4-5 Jedi during the PT and just focus on them in small parts. And they should have been the jedi killed in Order 66, so you get somewhat emotional. All I remember about Order 66 is that they killed the Conehead Guy and the Green Chick with the nice body.

TPM should have been about Anakin, Padme, and Kenobi, and no one else. That movie should have been total character development minus QuiGon, minus Jar Jar, and minus all the CG nonsense that Lucas was obsessed with. The purpose of TPM was to show that Anakin & Kenobi were great friends, and Anakin was falling in love with Padme, and there should have been a 20 minute flashback of Kenobi finding Young Anakin and that would dispel 2 hours of Jake Lloyd.

TPM & AOTC should have been condensed to one movie, and ROTS should have elevated to two movies, because that is the red meat of the story, and that is why TPM & AOTC feel so out of place in the saga, and ROTS feels so rushed when watching it 1-6.

Post
#234150
Topic
Expecting too much of George Lucas?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234150/action/topic#234150
Time
Originally posted by:Anchorhead
Gaffer speaks the truth.
I’m not a fan of Empire. Too contrived, too slick. Star Wars was a complete story. A reluctant bystander gets drawn into a battle against an evil lord and with the help of a mentor and an unwilling pair of shady characters, he rescues the princess and defeats the bad guys. It’s an outer space fairy tale, and it worked very well.

No more of the story needed to be told. Doing so started the process of shrinking the universe and weakening the story. The characters in Star Wars aren’t related to each other and it’s just by chance that their paths cross. The adventure they all go on because of the chain of events that brought them all together is what makes the movie so big and magical. Empire is none of those things.

In fact, I haven’t seen Empire in about 7 or 8 years and I can’t imagine I’ll bother with it again.

Star Wars is the movie that awed me as a boy. It’s the only one I’m interested in.


I totally agree with you about the Original SW, there is nothing that matches it. I can always watch that movie in reference to how it was presented in 1977, and don't think about the stuff after it, and the stuff before it. I can say because I saw it in 1977, I am not tainted by the constant story changes by Lucas which has really denegrated it to the younger generation fans who really miss the point of the whole story. This movie has been my favorite movie of ALL TIME since 1977, so it resonates with me the same way.

But I still enjoy the other SW movies, I just look at them a different way. I watch SW '77 as that standalone movie about good vs evil and I still love the ending when they get their medals, it is the ultimate goosebump moment. I then watch ESB & ROTJ as the story of Luke vs Vader to the backdrop of the Rebels vs Empire conflict. They are not sequels to SW '77, just another story that has to be watched in the context that the relationship of Vader/Luke was changed in 1980.

I then watch the PT as just a backstory of ObiWan/Anakin to the backdrop to how the Empire came to power, but in no means does this lead well into Episode IV, cause it is too jarring. I can enjoy all 6 SW movies, of course I enjoy SW '77 more than anything, and of course I enjoy the OT more than the PT. But for anyone who was there in 1977, nothing beats The Original Star Wars, and it aint cause of nostalgia. I probably watch The Original SW about 10-15 times a year and never get sick of it.

Good talk here guys, this is why I will always love this site, you can talk old SW talk without someone bringing up some quote from Lucas during the PT that totally contradicts the OT movies.

Post
#234058
Topic
Expecting too much of George Lucas?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234058/action/topic#234058
Time
Originally posted by: Obi Jeewhyen



It also helps, as I now confess and then run for cover .... that I am the world's only megastarwars fan who ... wait for it .....

.... doesn't like The Empire Strikes Back.

And, yes, I realize what a pariah that makes me.


.



Dont run for cover, cause there are millions of fans like you, and that is why no SW movie ever grossed what the original SW did in 1977, adjusted or unadjusted for inflation. I for one don't love Vader being Lukes father one bit, and I think that is when Lucas went Vader crazy and ruined the whole saga.

Whenever I watch SW '77, I watch it as that standalone film, and don't think about any of the other 5 movies. If you just watch the original SW in the context it was written, there are no plot holes, and Lucas started changing things in 1980, but the difference back then is he didn't go back and changed the previous films like he did with the OT movies after the PT, that is what makes so many OT fans mad now.

I just think ESB is a great movie, plain & simple, cause Kershner brought the saga to another level on the dramatic end with Yoda and the Leia & Han relationship. But once Vader uttered those words, "I am your father," SW the saga jumped the shark for me, cause it went from this macro story of good vs evil to this micro story of this anti-hero grey character called Anakin Skywalker. And for me, that type of story does not mix with the type of movie Lucas does when it comes to SW.

Obi Jeewhyen, you are not alone in feeling that SW '77 is the end, but about 99% of that fanbase doesn't post on an internet board at this point in their life, so you don't get that representation of your views on any of the SW message boards. I tried getting a whole forum board on TFn about talk of just The Original SW without the context of sequels and prequels, just to talk to anyone like me who saw it in 1977, and how everything was perceived before 1980. The mods didn't even understand what I meant, as they couldn't even relate to anyone who would just look at the original as a standalone movie? I made this one statement to them in a PM, "Do you even realize The Original SW isn't even about Darth Vader, other than just being a really cool bad guy?" I am still waiting for a response.

By the way, thanks for the compliment Zombie 84.
Post
#234006
Topic
Expecting too much of George Lucas?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/234006/action/topic#234006
Time
This is a very interesting thread, and I think it all comes back to the success of ESB, and fans set the bar for every SW movie after that at that level, including me. The first two SW movies, SW & ESB to me are bonafied classics, that rank up with any great film on any list. What seperates SW movies is that the sequel to the classic original is a classic too, and to me that has never been done before, and never since. I love Godfather II, but it is not as great as the original, I love Terminator 2, but it is not as great as the original, and I could name so many others.

After ESB, fans expected every SW movie to be a 'classic' and now I think about it, we should be lucky we got two great movies. If ESB had been a good sequel, but not great, many fans including myself would look at the OT or the saga 1-6 very differently. I would say, "Well, SW '77 is a classic just like every movie series, and the sequels are good, but just can't match the original, oh well." But ESB is as great as SW '77, so now many fans have been waiting since 1980, "Where is the next ESB?"

The Original SW is my favorite movie of all-time, but ESB makes me a SW saga fan. After I watch ESB, I have to watch ROTJ to get closure as a trilogy, so in a sense I will watch an inferior ROTJ 23 years later, when I would never watch any other movie series sequels that I think are pretty good/average. I will even watch the PT sometimes, just because there is the hope that this time 1-6 will work as a story for me and tie together nicely. If ESB was pretty good, I would probably only watch SW '77 and as Luke & Han get their medals, that would be my closure, and the rest of the sequels would be just that.

I used to get mad when I watched ROTJ & PT and said, "What if Lucas did this and that...." but if you really think about it, how the hell would anyone be able to put out 6 movies that are as great as SW '77 & ESB? I still like to debate 'what if' on message boards, but I have come to accept the saga the way it is now.

As for Lucas not releasing the O-OT in great quality it deserves, I can't defend him on that one. I think he is worried that fans may accept the O-OT as the real OT, so as long as it is inferior quality on home video, it will get people to shy away from it.

Hating Lucas for making an average PT, shame on the fans. Hating Lucas for making an average ROTJ, shame on the fans. Hating Lucas for putting out crap transfers for the O-OT, I will agree on that.
Post
#232190
Topic
ROTS in the IMDb top 250!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/232190/action/topic#232190
Time
Originally posted by: BadAssKeith
I think the list is pretty valid. You see, what bothers me is the fact that 36.7% of the people on that site gave it a 10!? How could they? They movie was littered with plot holes and poor tie-ins to the OOT. Plus the acting was terrible, the story was contrived and stupid, and the CGI looked terrible and there was tons of pointless characters (General Grevious) and poor pacing.



I think ROTS has two things going for it, and this isn't a defense of the movie. TPM & AOTC are so bad, ROTS looks like gold next to those two movies. Even when the reviews came out last May, everyone heralded it as the best of the PT, Lucas finally got it right, so it got pumped up so much cause it is so much better than the first two PT movies.

It will always be tied to the OT because this is really the PT story, and should have been fleshed out over two movies, and TPM & AOTC should have been combined as the first prequel.

As for everything you say B.A. Keith:

Plot Holes? I agree, especially Leias memories of her mom

Poor Tiesins to the OT? I agree, but that started with Anakin building C-3PO in TPM, so by ROTS, I was used to that shit.

Acting Terrible? I agree, except for McGregor, he was great through the PT. Christenson & Portman, UGGGH!

Contrived Plot? I agree, the turn is the dumbest plot point and totally ruins the PT. All for a dream? How come Anakin didn't ask Palpatine, "How do you save people, can you atleast give me an explanation?" He just follows him blindly, and looks like an idiot.

Overuse of CGI? I agree. Just watch parts of all 6 movies, and the OT movies feel real with real models and real locations (Endor, Tatooine, Hoth). The only setting that felt real in the PT was Tatooine, cause that is the only part Lucas didn't shoot in Bluescreen.

Pointless Charaters? I agree, Grevious was bad, and someone get him some Robitusson!
Post
#232185
Topic
ROTS in the IMDb top 250!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/232185/action/topic#232185
Time
ESB #10
SW # 11
ROTJ #110
ROTS # 235

I think that says it all, and I feel justified in my belief of how the masses look at the saga. SW & ESB are classics and being in the top 11 proves that. ROTJ is way down, cause it is an average/decent sequel, and ROTS is probably in there cause it ties to the OT so much.

I never go by the exact numbers in these polls & lists cause they are subjective, but I just look at where they rate compared to the other films, and it doesn't suprise me that only SW & ESB are the only SW movies that are considered great. On other SW sites, if I said that, I would be a basher.
Post
#231879
Topic
If Star Wars flopped....
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/231879/action/topic#231879
Time
The worst thing to happen to SW was it became too popular, and Lucas catered to a mass audience instead of his intended audience. If it had been a cult audience of diehards instead of a mass audience, Lucas would have never made enough money to start Lucasfilm, and he would have made the sequels through the studios and worried less about merchandising and the bottom line like he did with ROTJ.

ROTJ is the beginning of SW becoming too popular as Lucas tries to please everyone including little kids like me, instead of just doing what he did in ESB: Make the story he wanted and if fans come along for the ride, thats great.

If SW was just a cult hit, there wouldn't have been prequel trilogy, because it wouldn't have made huge money for Lucas. Lucas said to Charlie Rose in Sept 2004 and I will never forget this quote, "In the early 90's the marketing team at Lucasfilm presented me scenario's if I made the PT, and how much money it would make. I had to make a choice, make these three films and make enough money to never be dependent on any studio in the future, or push SW aside for good, and just make the movies I really want."

Guys, it was all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$, and that is why he compromised the quality of the films for short term success to get the mass audience and the little kiddies in the theaters instead of his original intended audience.
Post
#231383
Topic
Finally Hocked the SE
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/231383/action/topic#231383
Time
This is interesting, and I think this is what Lucas feared by putting out the O-OT on DVD, many fans would just watch the saga 4-6, not 1-6. For me, the saga 1-6 is the PT/SE, and the saga 4-6 is the O-OT, so in a sense Lucas has created the one market of fans he never wanted to create.

If Lucas had left the OT movies alone and just kept the O-OT in tact but remastered it like every other DVD on the market, I think there would be so many fans who don't love the Prequels, but would accept them as part of the saga, and just say I have the trilogy I love in the box set, and the trilogy I think is alright.

But Lucas has now divided the OT fans, so many fans like me are now starting to distance myself not only from the SE, but the PT now, cause I know in any future boxset of the saga, it will PT & OT/SE, and probably not include the O-OT as one of the versions. So the point for me and many fans, why buy 6 movies where you don't love any of the versions? Atleast if Lucas had the saga PT + O-OT, you could atleast justify buying 3 great movies, I know I do that when I buy the Rocky Boxset, I have to buy Rocky V, but I do it for completionist sense.

The ironic thing about the changes is the more Lucas tries to tie the saga by changing the OT, he alienates a section of fans who have a harder time tying the trilogies. The funny thing is the fans that love the PT/SE are the same fans who fell in love with the O-OT before 1997, so they would still love the movies today! Good job George, you were instrumental in creating the O-OT fanbase, and I don't even think you realized it.
Post
#231049
Topic
POLL: Are you buying the Star Wars DVDs released on September 12, 2006?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/231049/action/topic#231049
Time
I will buy these versions, and I do have a 52" HD Widescreen TV, so it is effecting fans like me the most. I have become frustrated with bootlegs, as they are always freezing up, and both of my ROTJ versions freeze up right before the Ewok Celebration! It is almost like Lucas is sitting behind me laughing as the one scene I truly hate in the SE doesn't work on my bootlegs!

I have stated before that I have several non-anamorphic DVD's and I do have to zoom them to 16/9, but they are still pretty good quality, and to many fans out there without a trained eye, I believe they wouldn't be able to tell the difference if they have two TV's showing non-anamorphic and anamorphic movies right next to each other. It is a difference, but to me not that big of a difference, where it wont detract me from not loving the movie.

Lucas is a jerk, but what can I do, he has a monopoly over us, and they are my three favorite movies of all-time, and I hate the SE! So I will buy them and watch them and I believe I will enjoy them very much but be bitter as a SW fan for a long time.

And someday, whether it is DVD saga boxset or HD-DVD, Lucas will release a remastered O-OT, and I will be done with my beloved movies. I still say everyone buy them even though Lucas is a jerk, why spoil individual enjoyment just to make a point when Lucas has all the money in the world, and doesn't have to cater to his fans anymore.

Post
#230925
Topic
www.dvdempire.com O-OT pre-orders rankings (updated)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/230925/action/topic#230925
Time
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
I find it weird that ROTJ is a little bit higher than ESB!


Lets put it this way, if there was only one O-OT I could have in Anamorphic, it would be ROTJ. I hate with a passion the Hayden as force ghost change, I hate it so much, it is the reason I hate the SE because it is insulting for anyone who watched the movie since 1983.

I hate it, I hate it, I hate it. Sorry about my anger, but I hate that change over everything else, so with ESB being the least touched of the 3 movies, I can see ROTJ being higher.
Post
#230753
Topic
Lucas' real reasons for changing the OT
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/230753/action/topic#230753
Time
Alot of defenders of Lucas's vision crap forget what he says on the '97 Laserdisk SE Interview: He was only going to release Star Wars: Episode IV to the theaters, and only touch up effects on that movie only, and the main inspiration was he always envisioned Mos Eisley much bigger. That is a key sentence, cause if he only wanted to touch up the original, that means he never had this huge vision of updating the OT, so all he is doing on each subsequent release is trying to tie the sagas through gimmicks like Hayden as a force ghost cause he couldn't write the PT to tie with the OT.

Lucas goes on to say after they touched up the Original SW, they had such a good time, they decided to touch up ESB & ROTJ. Translation: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. Lets do the math, if I release 3 movies to the theaters instead of one, I can make triple the money, then video release.......

This whole vision crap and changing the OT is a bunch of crap, I honestly believe he is genuine about touching up the Original SW, cause I do believe there are things he wanted to do in '77 that he couldn't. But if you look at ESB & ROTJ, he didn't do that much, and the stuff he did were awful scene changes: Vader going to his shuttle on Cloud City, a new Wampa, Jedi Rocks, Hayden as a Force Ghost. He had to change something in each movie to sell this new product, or why would everyone go? The only drastic effects changes happen in the Original SW, everything else after that was just meddling and tinkering, and the 2004 release has two major changes and both try to tie the saga together.
Post
#230666
Topic
www.dvdempire.com O-OT pre-orders rankings (updated)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/230666/action/topic#230666
Time
Well, our non-anamorphic O-OT DVD's aren't even in the top 10 of pre-orders on www.dvdempire.com:

As of July 30, 2006:

Star Wars #23

The Empire Strikes Back #41

Return of the Jedi #40

I will update this every once in a while up to September 12th, and see if these movie move up the list. But if a SW movie is not ranked in the top 10 of any pre-order alittle over 1 month in advance, I don't see this as a huge seller. So, either Lucas will get the hint cause the bad quality, or he will say, "See, I told you nobody wanted them, but a small vocal minority."
Post
#229987
Topic
Ok, straight up... is this the last time we will ever see the OOT?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/229987/action/topic#229987
Time
It will be released again, cause of fans like me and many other who used to buy everything Lucas put out on Video. Before this O-OT split with SE fans, I was a sucker for anything SW boxset wise, you could always count me in when Lucas released something before Christmas.

But now I dont' love the PT enough to care about more documentaries or deleted scenes, I have no inkling to buy a new OT set with more changes, so that leaves me as only buying future stuff with the O-OT version in the boxset.

Lucas lost me as a fan, so $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ will make him say, "Due to popular demand, the O-OT will be totally remastered for HD-DVD!"

I just say give me a call when it happens.
Post
#229831
Topic
We're Still Immature Whiners to MSNBC
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/229831/action/topic#229831
Time
Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape


It doesn't make me furious or anything. It's just that a lot of people are expecting the general press to be in an uproar when these low-quality discs come out. I mean, sure, it's just one article, but I thought it'd be interesting to point out the kind of information that some people will be getting.


Dont Get me wrong GT, I am still glad you posted it, cause it is a very funny read. I was just saying in the grand scheme of things, the parts of the media that dont follow SW anymore, are going to laugh it up. Magazines like Entertainment Weekly, and ones that keep up with technology will be the ones laughing at Lucas in September, I will guarantee that.

Most media outlets just think this is a movie series that is over-with, and really don't know why people are bitching when there are no more movies. These were also the same people who laughed at us and didn't get it when the OT was king of the world. I say nothing has changed.

Post
#229775
Topic
We're Still Immature Whiners to MSNBC
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/229775/action/topic#229775
Time
This stuff doesn't bother me. There is always going to be someone who looks at us as worrying about this stuff too much. I love the OT movies, and I do what I can to get the movies put out in the right way they should be, but that is all we can do. Don't get mad if someone jokes about us needing to 'get a life', cause it is a hobby to all of us who enjoy it, nothing more nothing less. The difference is our hobby's creator has totally dissed us so we have to be a bit more vocal about things. People have always looked upon SW fans as goofy or weird in one way or another, even in the OT glory days, but I have never let that ruin my enjoyment that I feel they are missing out.

What I am trying to say is that I am trying to not get furious anymore of this stuff, and just do what we can, and so be it. Lucas is a jerk, and the O-OT set in September is what it is. I will keep fighting and won't give up, but I am done being bitter, cause Lucas has already lost a lifelong fan. Just read my sig.