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CO

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Join date
25-Jul-2005
Last activity
22-Apr-2019
Posts
1,568

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Post
#265315
Topic
Anywhere to keep up on news, or gossip about the archival editions coming?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/265315/action/topic#265315
Time
"It's funny when people obsess over things like that - it' unbelievable. The person they adore and worship, who made the original film in the first place, says "This is the way it was meant to be..." And then they can't cope with it. The fans are strange, but in a delightfully damaged way."
--Richard McCallum

JediRandy, about your sig.....

McCallum says 'This is the way it was meant to be.' and he has a problem with us obsessing right?

1980 ESB - Luke does NOT scream as he jumps in Cloud City

1997 ESB SE - Luke DOES scream as he jumps in Cloud City

2004 ESB DVD - Luke does NOT scream as he jumps in Cloud City

Which way was it always meant to be? The version in 1980 & 2004, or the version in 1997?
Post
#264936
Topic
Harrison Ford turns down chance to reprise Han Solo Role!
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/264936/action/topic#264936
Time
Ford's Star Wars snub
09/01/2007 2:00:00 PM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harrison Ford turned down $47 million to star in a new spin-off 'Star Wars' movie.

Harrison Ford
(BANG) - Harrison Ford turned down a $47 million pay day to make a new spin-off 'Star Wars' movie.

Hollywood legend Ford, 64, snubbed director George Lucas' big bucks offer in favour of playing heroic archaeologist Indiana Jones again.

However, Lucas wasn't too disappointed with Ford's decision as he was already developing an idea for a fourth Indiana Jones movie with Steven Spielberg.

A source told Britain's Daily Star newspaper: "George wanted Harrison to play Indy but cleverly sounded him out about playing Hans Solo instead.

"Harrison was horrified. After that he was delighted to be playing Indy again. He told George he just couldn't face being stuck in a spaceship with Chewbacca again."

Ford will earn $47 million for donning his famous fedora hat once again and embarking on a final adventure as the whip-cracking adventurer.

Ford and Lucas announced they were making a fourth 'Indiana Jones' film earlier this month.

The movie, produced by Lucas and directed by Spielberg, is due to be released in 2008, 19 years after Ford last appeared as thrill-seeking Indy in 'Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade'.

(C) BANG Media International




Post
#263835
Topic
10 years of the Special Editions
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/263835/action/topic#263835
Time
If Lucas only released the OOT on DVD in 2004 fully remastered, does anyone think that there would be this huge outcry for the SE to be put on DVD? Does anyone think there would be a webpage called StarWarsSpecialEdition.com with over 75,000 names on the list? Do you think there would be this huge letter writing and emailing campaign to get the SE on DVD like what we all did for the last 3 years?

That is what the ironic thing about all of this is, if Lucas released the OOT in 2004, the SE would have died a slow death, and the saga would consist of PT + OOT and most of us here wouldn't have a problem with it. To this day I resent the PT cause I can't watch the OOT in great quality, and I wouldn't have been so hostile towards Lucas view of the saga if he just left that guy Shaw in at the end of ROTJ.

Post
#263457
Topic
10 years of the Special Editions
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/263457/action/topic#263457
Time
Originally posted by: Darth_Evil

We're at the tenth anniversary of the SE. Of course, I think of 30th anniversary, but Lucas is probably thinking tenth, thinking that the SE is the true versions, that the original was just work in progress, yadda yadda yadda...and it makes me pitty him. Alot. For someone with so much potential to lose sight of that filmmaker's heart is sad. Like CO said, Lucas broke up Star Wars fans into a bunch of different sects. It's not just sad, it's funny, in a twisted sort of way.


I find the whole state of SW ironic for Lucas, the fans, and the overall way that SW is perceived these days.

Lucas: He is not perceived as that genius anymore, other then his staunch PT defenders, which are a true minority. I am sure everyone of us here thought he was a genius at one time or another, as the man truly made 3 great movies that I will cherish forever. But the SE/PT exposed the man for his flaws that were hidden in the OT by a talented supporting cast, and the overall change that he made as a filmaker for the worse.

The Fans: As a fan, it is utterly confusing to be a SW fan anymore. I mean is it even worth it to say you're a fan anymore, instead of just saying I like certain SW movies. Do you watch the OOT on DVD that looks like crap? Or do you watch the crappy SE that look great? Do you watch the PT movies to complete the story, yet you only try to watch them out of obligation instead of just watching them cause you love them? Or do you try to erase the everything that has happened to SW since 1997? Good luck! This was the greatest trilogy in the history of movies for many of us here growing up, and now we are like Darth Vader indebted to The Emperor George Lucas for anything we still remotely enjoy in SW-ville, yet we really don't like the man anymore. The ironic thing is he is using us to try to keep us as fans with waving the OOT in our face, and we sit here waiting for that announcement each day so we don't have to be fans anymore.

Come on guys, this is the ultimate irony? We were able to experience something many people I know never did with SW growing up, and now it is like someone is getting us back for enjoying it too much. I mean when was the last time anybody watched a SW movie and didn't think of some negative shit that Lucas has done to us since 1997, ironically as we keep watching his movies!

Post
#263423
Topic
10 years of the Special Editions
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/263423/action/topic#263423
Time
I remember January 31, 1997 like it was yesterday. I actually saw SW twice that weekend, and back then you were either a SW fan or not. There are no more SW fans anymore, there are OOT fans, SE fans, PT fans, Saga fans, etc.

Thanks George, it has been a great ride to mediocrity. TPM say hello to Superman IV, AOTC say hello to Jurassic Park III, ROTS say hello to Terminator 3. SW has become just another movie series where it made TOOOO many movies, and the bad ones stick out just as much as the classics do.
Post
#263253
Topic
Will you buy the OOT again ?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/263253/action/topic#263253
Time
Originally posted by: JamesEightBitStar

I'd call that one hell of a broken scale, personally. Okay, yes, the 2006 DVDs weren't perfect, but their imperfections are horribly exaggerated.
?


I was one of the few here in May after the non-anamorphic announcement who was telling people to buy the set in September, as I have loads of non-anamorphic DVD's in my collection, and alot of them aren't that bad. I have The Abyss, Romancing the Stone, Home Alone, Wargames, Hoosiers, Crimson Tide, and if the OOT was on par with any of these discs, I would have been happy.

When I bought them Sept. 12th, I was shocked at how fuckin bad they were, I knew I was taken the second I saw all that grain on Tatooine and Hoth. Lucasfilm did nothing to these films, and on an 50" HD TV, they look like shit. If you are watching them on a 32" 4x3 TV, they won't be that bad because it is very hard to tell great quality on sets that aren't big screen.

I feel like I got totally taken on this set, and I fully regret buying now as I have gone back to putting up with the SE, cause they are really great quality, and I just wince at the few scenes I totally hate: Greedo shooting, Jedi Rocks, Hayden in ROTJ, etc. I put The Abyss in the other day and get mad cause if the OOT looked like that, I would be happy and probably wouldn't even give a shit about a future release of the OOT. I bought The Abyss in 2000, and have never clamored for an Anamorphic transfer, but I would buy it if it came out.

Sorry dude, I apologize to anyone who I tried to tell to buy the OOT all summer, as I kept telling them non-anamorphic isn't as bad as you think. This whole set is a piece of shit, and the fact that I have reverted back to watching Jedi Rocks should tell anyone how shitty this quality must look on a 16 x 9 TV set.

Post
#263195
Topic
Will you buy the OOT again ?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/263195/action/topic#263195
Time
Originally posted by: Cable-X1The announcement of this set in the next few months is going to be an interesting day on this board...I'll be here for it, that's for sure.


For me personally, this set is it, and if there is no OOT on the specs, then I will probably give up the fight here and not post anymore. You can only do so much as a fan of writing letters, emails, etc. Talking with you guys here is just therapy that someone else out there is just as frustrated as me towards the whole SW saga now, and before I used to go on the internet, I always thought I was alittle nuts towards my views on SW, but I realized that these are the same conversations I had with my friends on SW in the early 80's, except back then it was all positive, and all was good in SW land.

Post
#263192
Topic
Will you buy the OOT again ?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/263192/action/topic#263192
Time
Originally posted by: Cable-X1 This set had better have EVERYTHING. The movies in their final versions, the original OT and all the vintage and new documentaries, blah blah blah. If it doesn't, then I ain't buying shit. As it stands now......WE could do a better box set than Lucas can!!!


That is exactly my point Cable, and why it may feature EVERYTHING on this set, cause everything is out there now for fans, this time they want QUALITY. The OT/SE, the PT movies, the OOT are all on DVD in one form or another, so the old saying that I have heard from any SW fan since the advent of DVD, "I just want (whichever version I like) on DVD....."

This rumored set has to make people want to buy it, it has to entice them to buy it, cause Lucas can't fall back on people just wanting anything that has SW on it on DVD. He has been able to milk the cow for the past 3 years, now it is time to either put out something of quality, or people will actually have the willpower to say no because they are getting nothing new.

Now Lucas could just release the OT with more changes and the PT with minor changes, and have a load of extras like deleted scenes and new documentaries, etc. In that case, then I think I will resign myself that Lucas really doesn't want us as fans anymore, and at that point, what can you do? We walk away.

Post
#263175
Topic
Will you buy the OOT again ?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/263175/action/topic#263175
Time
Originally posted by: Cable-X1I'm not trying to put anyone down here....

...but I think anyone who seriously believes that we'll see the OOT remastered in this upcoming box set is out of their fucking mind!!!

Lucas has gone through a lot to try and make those original versions disappear. .


I do respect your opinion Cable X1, and by your stance you are not putting anyone down, cause part of me feels you are dead on in your assessment, but.....

He did release the OOT on DVD, and yes they are crappy quality, but the fact that he did it tells me his master plan is weakening. I mean the Superman II Donnor Cut got released and that was SOLELY from the Internet. If you really think about it, he could have kept a lid on the OOT forever, cause he owns the movies. But for some reason, he gave in with stipulations: Don't put any money to restore it, and make them inferior looking to the SE.

If you don't have a Widescreen TV like myself, the quality difference is not noticeable, so 80% of the fans buying with a 4 x 3 TV won't notice a huge difference. Now there is that 20% like me with a 16 x 9 TV who think these things are the biggest piece of shit in the world.

So the big question is why did Lucas put the OOT out in 2006? More money is an obvious answer, but if that is the answer, then the whole vision thing and the whole I want to get rid of the OOT is thrown out the door, because he has to know a restored OOT will sell like hotcakes.

One way to look at this whole mess is that Lucas hasn't really put a proper release of the OT movies out yet, as the 2004 was a rush job with Lukes greenlightsaber, reversed music in ANH, and one really good documentary with a bunch of lame featurettes. The 2006 OOT was non-anamorphic half ass job. There has to be one definitive set before DVD gives out to HD-DVD. What will happen, I really don't know.

Post
#263172
Topic
Will you buy the OOT again ?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/263172/action/topic#263172
Time
In some ways, and I am not defending Sir George on this one, I really think the 2006 OOT was a trial run to see what the fanbase was for this out there. We all know Lucas had an idea that fans wanted the OOT on DVD, but I really don't think he knew to what extent?

I mean if you look at it from Lucas's POV, every SW thing since the SE has been financially successful, so in that respect, why should he feel the OOT has this huge demand? The SE movies made over 240 million in the theaters in 1997, the SE VHS release in 1997 did just as well. TPM, AOTC, and ROTS all made huge money in the theaters, and the DVD's did just as well. The 2004 SE OT DVD's are still one of the highest DVD's ever.

Now I am not debating quality, but Lucas is a businessman looks at those numbers and says, "Is there really this huge market for the OOT? And is it worth it to fuck with my vision of the 'saga' rather then starting to release different versions that will muddle everything up.

I don't know if the OOT will be in the saga boxset nextyear, but I do know this, Lucas the businessman will not change until he gets hit in the wallet. If Lucas puts out the 30th Anniversary Boxset next year without the OOT and just the SE OT, and PT (CG Yoda, etc.) stuff and it doesn't sell well, then he may reconsider. I think he will look at the 2006 OOT numbers, and that is the only reason I bought them, and atleast understand there is this huge market, cause all 3 movies finished in the Top 10 of DVD sales the week they came out, and of course that was in laserdisk quality.
Post
#263150
Topic
Will you buy the OOT again ?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/263150/action/topic#263150
Time
I think the one good thing about what has transpired of the last few years and Lucas's treatment of the OOT, is that this rumored set will be a no-brainer either way for me.

If he remasters the OOT in great quality, then count me as a yes vote. If he doesn't include it in this set, and it is just the SE, count me out, real simple. In the past, Lucas has been able to suck SW fans in every set. In 2004, we never thought the OOT would ever be released, so many reluctantly bought the SE OT because they just wanted any SW OT on DVD. IN 2006, many thought the OOT would never be fully remastered, so we just wanted the OOT on DVD. Now everyone has something of what they want, albeit not the best quality, so the only thing left is: Great quality.

I don't care about deleted scenes, or more documentaries, cause you can always rent the boxset at blockbuster one night for $5.00, watch the bonus material, and be done with it. It just comes down to whether Lucas remasters the OOT, and that is why I know my decision will be real easy once I see the specs.
Post
#262751
Topic
If GL made the PT first
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/262751/action/topic#262751
Time
What everyone forgets about the SW is that the story wasn't always centered on Darth Vader, and that is why 'starting with Episode I' in 1977 is a total fallacy, and in some ways why it doesn't even work today.

There was no backstory in 1977, there was no Episode IV back in 1977, and there sure as hell wasn't a Darth Vader character arc back in 1977 either. SW, the movie that came out in 1977 WAS the story, and that is why Lucas made it. Now sure he had other ideas for sequels and that is why Darth Vader didn't die at the end, and sure he had to write a short backstory on each character like ObiWan, The Empire, Darth Vader, etc, but not a backSTORY, meaning this grand story that led up to everything in Episode IV as it is presented today.

If Lucas put out TPM in 1977, even in a more adult tone, it would have done two things: failed miserably or caught on as this niche movie fanbase of scifi fans. Why SW was successful in 1977 was in some ways the mind blowing effects that NOBODY saw at the time, but the characters and story were the reason EVERY moviegoer could love it. Characters like Luke, Leia, and Han were totally relatable to the average Joe, the story of good vs evil and good winning in the end was the oldest and most successful type of story to tell, and that is why people like me who are not big scifi fans LOVEEEEE SW.

This is a great topic, cause I believe it can't even be speculated about, cause it just wasn't there in 1977. After the success of SW in 1977, Lucas juggled everything around and that is when he really had a direction he wanted to take the saga, but the bottom line is alot of that stuff just aint in ANH, cause it wasn't invented yet.

After 1977, Lucas changed Darth Vader being Lukes father, and then in ROTJ he developed the idea of his redemption and being Leias dad too. So my point is that this whole backstory, or Prequel trilogy, or Darth Vader character could have never been thought of in 1977, cause Lucas did not even have that storyline in mind yet.

I think a great topic to start is what if the PT were made from 1986 to 1992? How different would it be if Lucas made the PT right after ROTJ? I think it would have been alot better, and would have matched up with the OT so much more, cause he would have used the same type of technology he had from 77-83, he wouldn't have had 16 years to come up with TOO many new ideas, and I believe he wouldn't have been as hands on as he was from 99-05. The PT would look like the OT if it were made in the late 80's, it would feel like the OT, and I think it would have been more accepted by the diehard OT fans, cause the bottom line is many of us accept an inferior ROTJ to SW/ESB, but it doesn't ruin those movies like the PT does.
Post
#262591
Topic
What did the Prequel Trilogy need?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/262591/action/topic#262591
Time
I always thought that Lucas could have played the PT as a real backstory, narrated by Luke Skywalker (Mark Hammil) as he tells the events of the PT to his son post ROTJ.

The problem with the PT is it just doesn't work in order 1-6 for so many reasons. The focus on Anakin for the first three movies is gone by Episode IV. The special effects are SOOO different in both trilogies, and the whole tone of each trilogy doesn't jive as one continuous story.

Lucas could have changed the sequence with the Episode #'s this way:

Episode I - Star Wars
Episode II - The Empire Strikes Back
Episode III- Return of the Jedi
Episode IV - The Phantom Menace
Episode V - Attack of the Clones
Episode VI- Revenge of the Sith

Lucas could start TPM with Luke talking to his son some 20 years after ROTJ as an 'Obiwan' type role. It could flashback to him throughout the trilogy as he explains certain key plot points that Lucas is trying to convey, such as why Anakin chose to be Darth Vader. How fuckin cool would it have been for Mark Hammill to say, "And now this is the point where your grandfather was lost to the darkside!"

The different look with the new CG wouldn't be a problem to the older/newer viewer because it is essentially a backstory, not a linear story, so you can see how the Special Effects in the series progressed from 1977-2005. By telling as a backstory rather then a retelling of a linear story, Lucas wouldn't have been constricted of tying everyones fate up in ROTS with the last ten minutes.

The reason he had Padme die was so the story 1-6 would flow better, but as a backstory she could have taken Leia to Alderran and it could have ended there cause Luke is just telling what happened to her. Lucas wouldn't have needed to throw in the deathstar being shown and all that other bullshit cause he could have told just what needed to be told to flesh out the OT story, rather then do all these mirror tieins of both trilogies.

The PT should have fleshed out the OT and give it more depth the same way ESB/ROTJ fleshed out the story of Star Wars from 1977. It shouldn't have twisted the frickin story around so the OT is looked upon as different then the way we saw it before the PT!!!!! To me SW '77 is the first story that is told and the only story that is truly needed for any SW fan, cause it is the most basic, macro story of the 6 that really tells the overall story of all the characters involved in both trilogies, without getting too involved in any ONE character. The rest of the 5 movies are just more info about what we all wanted to know from the 1977 movie, and that is why Lucas should have told the PT that way. Instead we have this linear story that is so jarring, that you want to throw away the whole trilogy, and that is a real shame.
Post
#262408
Topic
Hey guys, Remember when Star wars had writing like this?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/262408/action/topic#262408
Time
Originally posted by: Cable-X1

CO is dead-on-balls correct on the Star Destroyers looking blue in the original prints. I had a Betamax bootleg of ESB that was recorded in the theaters during the original run of the film. I watched the living shit out of that bootleg all throughout the 80s and those Star Destroyers were damn blue!!! I have an absolute 100% clear motherfucking memory of that, Gomer. Clueless.


The whole look of ESB in 1980 is more blue-ish, and it is a flat grey on the OOT DVD's. I think ESB looks the worse of the 3 OOT movies, cause the colors are just so dull the whole movie. Check out the whole look of Hoth on the '04 DVD's, that is the true color of how Kersh shot in 1980, not fucking grey!!!

ROTJ is the most tolerable of the three, probably cause it is the most recent movie, and the movie takes place in either black deathstar scenes, foresty-like Endor scenes, and Jabbas Palace which is very dull to begin with. But just watch as C3pO & R2 start the movie on Tatooine just like they do in SW, Grainy!! Grainy!!! Grainy!!!

If you do notice the fleshtones on ROTJ aren't that bad, especially near the end where I compared the OOT & SE right after the death star blows up, and they are actually pretty similar for some reason? Maybe Lucas touched up the original Ewok Ending with Shaw in it just to throw a bone to the OOT crowd so they wouldn' t have to see Hayden Skystalker.

Post
#262404
Topic
Hey guys, Remember when Star wars had writing like this?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/262404/action/topic#262404
Time
Originally posted by: zombie84

had the film been presented in a full-resolution new transfer of this "rough" picture i wouldn't be complaining. In fact, this is what most of us were actually expecting to get--an unrestored but newly transfered version of a print, perhaps somewhat scratchy and grainey, but in otherwise full, anamorphic fidelity.


That is exactly it Zombie, and that is where this release totally failed. I wouldn't be complaining if the colors didn't jump out like the 04 release, cause sometimes the contrast in the picture is too much where it looks fake. But a rough picture that still had detail instead huge amounts of grain would have been a very nice compromise. Lucasfilm did zero to these movies, and when they say unaltered, he did take it literally.

Post
#262396
Topic
Hey guys, Remember when Star wars had writing like this?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/262396/action/topic#262396
Time
Originally posted by: Go-Mer-TonicWell aside from the obvious resolution issue, I like the way it represents the way it looked in theaters as far as having the grain, scratches and image instability. To me part of the point of having this on DVD is to preserve how we used to have to watch it. Unless you were there when it was first unspooled, these issues were present to varying degrees even in the theater.


That is the big fallacy, it never looked like that in the theaters. Theater projection always looks better then home video, cause of the resolution. As we inch closer to HD-DVD, where the resolution is 1080, it looks more and more like you watching it in the theater.

The way I tell if a DVD is great quality is fleshtones, and overhead shots of a terrain. Just look at the flesh tones when you have to zoom the image, there is no definition in their faces, as it is just a dull contrast that resembles nothing that was shown from 77-83. Then you look at parts of Hoth and Tatooine, where they show the snow from when the squad leader is looking for Solo & Luke, it is so damn grainy it is ridiculous. Then look at when C3PO and R2 are walking on Tatooine at the beginning of SW and the whole backround of sand is just pure grain. And don't even get me started on Dagobah, that is so bland looking with no contrast.

The 04 DVDs are vibrant and bring out what was shown in the theaters, except for the friggin Green Lightsaber in ANH!!!!!! Look at Vaders Star Destroyer in the 04 Versions, they have that blue tint that really jumps out at you, and then the OOT version is this dull grey. Trust me, it was a blue tint back in 1980, not the dull grey.

I am sorry but these look like crap, and I really don't know what to do as a SW fan anymore. On a 4 x 3 TV, alot of this stuff we are talking about probably isnt' that noticeable, so a word of warning to all with 32' Regular TV's and you are enjoying the OOT DVD's, "DONT BUY A HD WIDESCREEN TV!!!!!"

Post
#262391
Topic
Hey guys, Remember when Star wars had writing like this?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/262391/action/topic#262391
Time
In all seriousness, it does look like shit, in fact, compared to my other non-anamorphic movies, the OOT movies are the worst quality I have on DVD, and I have put my hands up in utter frustration.

For anyone that does have an HD Big Screen TV, these movies are so grainy and dull, and for my standards, they are unwatchable. I honestly feel like a sucker now, cause I really thought it would be close to the quality of atleast movies like The Abyss, which is non-anamorphic, but still a respectable transfer.

Thanks George for giving us shit, and you know what I was dumb enough to buy it. ObiWan was right, "I am the fool that followed."
Post
#262380
Topic
Hey guys, Remember when Star wars had writing like this?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/262380/action/topic#262380
Time
Zombie, you are correct at what the PT has done to the OT, or the saga now, and those who love all 6 movies, meaning OT/SE + PT definitely look at the saga WAY differently then OOT fans. But in all honesty, it took me alot of years to adjusting to Darth Vader being Lukes father, and Luke/Leia being siblings, stuff that happened in ESB/ROTJ that at one time I felt sorta tarnished SW '77.

I personally hated the redemption of Darth Vader in ROTJ back in '83, because that was something I thought at the time that just didn't jive with the Original SW movie that I grew to love. And as much as I was an OOT fans growing up as a kid, SW '77 was the King of all movies to me, and ESB/ROTJ were just more stories of my beloved characters, but never lost context of what the story was in 1977.

So you are correct that fans at this point can go either way, and I say to you don't worry, the Darth Vader story crowd will be a niche fanbase. Now that will be a loyal one, but the amount of SW fans who actually love all 6 movies will be very minor because I just find it hard to believe that a majority of people are going to love 6 movies when atleast half of them are average at best.

If the internet was around in the early 80's, I believe the fanbase of SW'77 fans and OT fans would be split, and we would be arguing the same stuff now, but as I said, the difference is SW '77 was never touched back then, so nobody would be arguing about getting SW '77 in proper form as we do now. But I know there would be a huge fanbase of SW '77 fans saying that Darth Vader has no business being Lukes father, let alone Leia's father too.

But I began to change through the years and actually began to like the story ROTJ presented with Vaders redemption. I still think ROTJ is an average movie, but I give kudos to Lucas in ESB & ROTJ for taking the saga in a different direction then an actual retread sequel that most studioe put out, and he tried to keep it fresh with each new movie. I believe Lucas tried the same stuff with the PT, as he tried to keep it fresh too with something new in every story instead of what we always thought, but I think eventually you do it with too many movies, and you eventually alienate people by drastically changing it, and when you look at the first movie from 1977, it is TOO different, and loses its luster from what you fell in love with.

I will contest til the day I die that the PT was not for everyone, whether it was done right or not. I still believe there would be a good amount of OT fans who would never gravitate to the new characters, cause old faithful Luke, Leia, and Han weren't there to save the day as they did in ROTJ. I believe the whole tone of the PT being a bit darker and more grey when it comes to the story and the characters was going to turn people off too, because the OT movies are ultimate feel good movies where everything is in black and white. In some ways I think Lucas was set up for failure from day one, cause a prequel trilogy of 3 movies is really a big roll of the dice.

I read an article where Lucas realized in 1988 that if he made the PT, it could then be the story of Darth Vader, or the character arc, and that is exactly what 1-6 is, a character arc of Anakin Skywalker, but as we know the OT story, especially ANH really doesn't tell that part of his story very well cause it was never about him. So what Lucas ended up doing is really make fans who truly love the character of Darth Vader really happy with the 1-6 order, and everyone else likes parts of the movies now.

So the genius of the SW saga is its biggest flaw, it isn't one continuous story, cause it never was from the start, but you have so many different fans who love certain parts of the movies, like certain parts, and hate other parts. So in one way, we are all SW fans, even Gomertonic, but in another sense, we are so different only because the story has changed so much.
Post
#262244
Topic
Hey guys, Remember when Star wars had writing like this?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/262244/action/topic#262244
Time
Originally posted by: zombie84

Fans of the first version aren't around because there is no such place to discuss only the 1977 film and its universe. .



It is funny you mentioned it, cause I started a thread on TFN last year titled, "Star Wars 1977 Fanclub." Its rules were simple, pretend that no other SW sequel/prequel was ever made and pretend it is 1977 and how you perceive the film in THAT context. Darth Vader is just a bad guy, Luke & Leia are not related, The death star blows up and everyone lives happily ever after. It was pretty cool as alot of people started talking about the summer of '77 and how SW was just so great back then.

Then the mods came in and locked it. So I PM them and asked why? They replied, "You don't start any fan clubs without permission!" So then I replied, "OK, tell me what I need to do to get this SW'77 fanclub OK'd?" They replied, "Your wasting your time, no one cares about Star Wars 1977 standing alone, give it up."

They = Strilo, if anyone was wondering.
Post
#262155
Topic
Hey guys, Remember when Star wars had writing like this?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/262155/action/topic#262155
Time
Zombie, I 100% agree of how the 'saga' fans interpret the series now, and that is totally different then you and I. But I believe if Lucas never touched the OT, and we just simply had the OT & PT as 6 movies as the saga, it wouldn't be a divided.

The problem is with the SE, there are two actors at the end of ROTJ now, Shaw & Hayden, plus there is a different ending in ROTJ too. The CG stands out in SW, or ANH now, that wasn't there in the OOT version, so that is why many fans like myself get mad, cause Lucas is fucking with the OT movies.

I think you underestimate how many people don't like ESB/ROTJ who loved SW in 1977. I think many fans became huge fans because they really liked SW in '77, but loved ESB in 1980. That is why the OOT base is so huge, you have 2 huge groups of fans whose favorite movie of all-time is either SW or ESB, and NO movie series has that. Most people I know love Superman:The Movie, and like Superman II, or love Terminator and like Terminator 2, but nobody I know has a majority of fans who love Terminator as their favorite movie of all-time, and then another base of fans that love T:2 as their favorite movie of all-time, and that is why the OOT base is so huge.

I still think if Lucas never changed the OT movies one bit, many of us wouldn't care what PT fans think of the saga now, just as ALOT of people I know laughed at Yoda the puppet and Darth Vader being Lukes father in 1980, they thought that was utterly ridiculous and ruined the series. But the bottom line is Lucas didn't go back to SW '77 version and change dialogue between Luke/ObiWan that jived with ESB now, or added effects to come closer to ESB/ROTJ so they would flow better. The bottom line is the movies worked from 77-83 for a hell of alot of people, and Lucas didn't need to change shit, and that is what bothers people like me.

I can't get excited about the upcoming Saga Boxset next year cause I know Lucas is going to change the movies again, and it is to the point where he is just tainting the things in my mind, cause you keep asking yourself, "Is this it?" The only driving force of me being a fan is the end game: The OOT on DVD in great quality.

If Lucas would have just kept the damn OT movies the same, I would have gladly bought boxsets, HD boxsets til the day I die. Even if each of them contained the PT movies, it would be all SW to me, and I just wouldn't watch them as much. But now Lucas is asking me to continue being a fan when I don't like the SE or PT? Thats the problem, and that is why I think the SE/OT is the worse thing that happened to SW, not the PT. These same people who love the SE, would love the OOT just as much if it came out in great quality today, so I believe Lucas never gained one fan from the SE, he only alienated a whole lot.
Post
#262132
Topic
Hey guys, Remember when Star wars had writing like this?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/262132/action/topic#262132
Time
Long post, but I think I tried to sum up why were all here.

After reading your post Weyseed, I understand where you are coming from, and at times I get a bit frustrated and wonder what the hell is going on in the world of the internet. Then I take a step back and realize........it is the internet. The internet to me is like talk radio in the US, it is a place for a good debate, a heated debate, and alot of bitching, and that makes it entertaining, but in the same vein it gets a bit ridiculous at times.

I think the problem with the SW fanbase and the sniping on the internet stems from the OOT/SE debate, not the PT movies, and that is the big fallacy among fans like us. Sure we debate the PT, sure we talk about what if, and sure we talk about how Lucas dropped the ball that we got so juiced up for in 1999. But the one thing I have noticed is there is no hatred towards Lucas on the PT, there may be frustration of a bad product, and there may even be disgust among many of us about the way they turned out, but for me personaly, I hold no hard feelings towards Sir George when it comes to the PT movies, they are what they are, and it is fun sometimes to speculate how they should have turned out. I'm sure many Matrix fans do that with the sequels, or Jurassic Park fans do the same, it is the nature of sequels that turn out average, you speculate how it could be better.

What the real problem with the SW fans on the internet and the frustration with Lucas stems from the OOT and how it is treated these days. I will say it and say it again, if Lucas never touched the OT movies and there were 6 SW movies sitting out there: 3 OT & 3 PT, I would not even be here posting right now. I would have the trilogy I love in my collection in great quality, and the trilogy I think is sorta entertaining because it is SW, case closed.

But why are we all here? This site isn't called, "PT sucks.com" or "Prove the OT is better then the PT.com", it is called, "originaltrilogy.com." And every other debate that happens stems from the problem of not having the OOT in any good form on DVD and respect circa 2006. I log on here everyday in hopes that one day I will see, "Lucas plans to restore the OOT in the 30th Anniversary Boxset!" Let the celebration begin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But what happens is I log on here, and nothing, another day of disrespect for the greatest trilogy of all-time. And then I see people like Gomer tell me, 'This is the best quality the OOT has ever been." Yeah, it would be like myself having a 1995 Ford Probe, and then trading that in for a 1996 Ford Probe and saying, "This is the best car I have ever driven!!!!"

If Lucas would have never changed the OT movies, SW debates would be so different and there would be no huge divide like there is now. There would have been some divide over the Prequels, but that debate has shifted to OOT fans vs SE/PT fans, so now it is even greater! The OOT fans have taken the side that the PT sucks, and the PT fans have taken the side that the SE are great, and justify that the PT is just as great.

The day the OOT is remastered to great quality, I won't post here anymore, cause my job as a SW fan on the internet is over. As Weyseed said, there are more important things going on in the world, and in the grand scheme of the Iraq War and world hunger, the OOT is really irrelevant. But this is entertainment, and we all need to unwind from our daily life and just talk about something that is really trivial to the grand problems of the world.

So in the context of a vice in our life, this is a war, a war to keep these movies alive, cause no generation after us will even care. The reason it is still talked about and debated is because there are so many of us, and Lucas knows the biggest fanbase he ever had was the OOT fans, and as much as he only wants the saga to be of the 6 movie verisons that he see as his vision 'du jour' in 2006, 2007, 2008, etc, he knows that he is going to have to remaster the OOT somewhere down the line, via the 30th anniversary Boxset, Blue Ray HD-DVD, cause we are not going away. Or atleast I know I am not.
Post
#261992
Topic
Hey guys, Remember when Star wars had writing like this?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/261992/action/topic#261992
Time
Here is the jist of the OOT, and why it differs from any movie trilogy, with the exception now of LOTR. The OOT has two great movies that stand on their own as classics: SW & ESB. ROTJ is not a great movie in a movie sense, but in a SW sense as relation to being part 3 of the OOT, it is a good ending to a great trilogy. Why ROTJ works is that you begin to watch it only as part of the story, and don't watch it as a singular movie and how it stacks up with all the great scifi movies.

If ESB is the same quality as ROTJ, then I am not an OOT fan, cause it wouldn't be worth it to watch 3 movies as part of a story where I am only really love one of the movies. But what ESB does is it makes ROTJ worth it to watch cause it extends the story, and for whatever ways Lucas rewrote the SW trilogy from 77-83, overall it does work really well, and is very enjoyable 3 part saga.

The problem with the PT, is that the quality is all over the place, and that is why so many fans have just put their hands up. Most fans have a huge problem with TPM or AOTC, or both. Many fans like ROTS, but because the two leadup movies are duds, they have a problem cause they can't wait til they get to Episode III, and still have to watch 2 movies to get to the real story. Many fans like me like ROTS, but think it could have been SO much better, cause Lucas really dropped the ball on key points in the movie, and as Brando said in On The Waterfront, "It could have been a contender!"

So what happens now is that you have this mess of PT movies that tie in with the OT, and it all becomes hard to figure how to enjoy the saga 1-6? Now when I say 'mess', I honestly don't hate the PT movies like many here, I think they are entertaining, fun summer movies, but stacked up against the OT and now trying to see it as one saga, it is like night and day. And what you have left with is: The great trilogy, and the OK trilogy, and I just don't think I will be revisiting a trilogy of OK movies 20 years from now like I do with the great movies from the OOT. So in the end, it is all about quality, and that is what the problem is, not the fans.