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Join date: 25-Jul-2005
Last activity: 22-Apr-2019
Posts: 1,568

Post History

Post: #268982
Topic: "Archiving seminar reveals 'Star Wars' tidbit?" Another SE?!
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/268982/action/topic#268982
Time: 31-Jan-2007 3:08 PM

I heard there is added dialogue in ANH SE between Luke & ObiWan:

Luke: How did my father die?

ObiWan: Your father.......was murdered because he did not have the high ground.

Post: #267922
Topic: The end of Star Wars?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/267922/action/topic#267922
Time: 25-Jan-2007 8:01 PM

Zombie, I guess I will throw in my 2 cents about life after ROTJ, and my usual long posts if anyone can get through them.

I don't think it is a bad thing that your fandom for SW is dying down, cause that is different then not loving the movies anymore. The biggest problem for all of us here, or many of us here is that the whole SW thing has gotten out of control for just utter enjoyment. Do I watch the OOT which I love to death in shit quality? Do I watch the SE in great quality even though I get annoyed at 95% of the changes? Do I watch the PT to try to get the full arc of the saga now even though it didn't turn out as good as it could? Will Lucas ever put out a great quality OOT release, or will I be either stuck watching OOT bootlegs, OOT 2006 shit DVD's, or Great Quality SE for the rest of my life? These are all questions that enter my mind now when I watch a SW movie, and sadly even the ones I love.

This is a watershed year for an OOT fan, cause to me it is all or nothing for a while. There will be a Saga Boxset, it is all but confirmed on the SW 2007 Calendar last year, and after the specs are announced, many here will retire from SW talk for a long time, either happy or pissed off at George til HD-DVD rumors start. If the Saga boxset does contain the OOT remastered and everyone is happy with it, then SW talk will stop. If the Saga boxset does not include the OOT and just a new SE & PT movies, then there will be some serious bitchin up to and after the set is released, and then I think many like myself will wave the white flag. I honestly come here everyday in hopes that there is some announcement of the OOT that we have waited for, and that leads me into some SW talk.

As for SW fandom dying down Zombie, it aint a bad thing cause great movies stand the test of time, and I remember being in 8th grade in 1987, a full 4 years after ROTJ, and we would all joke at who could do the best Chewbaccas howl. SW never died, or the OT never died, it just wasn't public domain everyday and that is solely cause there are no more movies, and there is nothing really new to talk about. The TV show will have its niche audience, and I guarantee 90% of the people who watch it read the EU books, and I say that fine with me, cause I know Lucas won't fuck with the OT movies to fit the TV series. Or will he?

For a long time I wondered whether the PT would taint the OT for future generations, and we have all talked about here, but I am starting to think that the only one who got tainted was ol Georgie. People will still love the OT movies, because they are so different looking, different characters, and such a different story, it is too obvious not to notice they are seperate trilogies. Sure there will be the niche saga fans who populate TFN, but I also have a friend who loved Fast & the Furious, and I have another friend who loves Waterworld, so there is always people out there with bad taste!

A friend of mine of who is a big SW fan kinda summed up the PT to me, "Either you accept the story or not, and if you don't, it will never work. Dont' keep trying it 4-6,1-3 or 1-6, or even 3-6, either it works for you or it doesn't. ROTJ has always been inferior to SW/ESB, but everyone accepted the story, and they became OT fans, so you never had to try to love ROTJ, you just accepted the story, even though it wasn't exactly what it could have been." He also said, "I think every SW fan in some ways likes the PT movies even a tiny bit, cause of how it ties to the OT, and that expands the OT story when it was done right. But there are so many bad moments that clutter it, you almost have a love/hate relationship with the movies whereas you know there is a good movie in there, yet it just was executed to what it should have been."

For me, when the saga boxset is announced this year, and if the OOT is remastered and I can enjoy those 3 movies again, I will make a decision whether I accept the PT story or not. I think many of us are so pissed at the treatment of the OOT, that we won't accept the PT as just a backstory, nothing more nothing less, cause I think it can work if I can see Sebastian Shaw again.

Post: #267829
Topic: OOT has 1 day left
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/267829/action/topic#267829
Time: 25-Jan-2007 3:21 PM

Originally posted by: zombie84Same old, same old. You get used to these things. Thank god the internet wasn't around in December of 1977--you think any of this is bad? I guess people forgot about the "empty box" toys. Basically Kenner couldn't make their action figures in time for christmas so Lucasfilm sold empty boxes, with coupons inside that could be traded for the toys once they came out in the new year.

Ha, I was one of them! I remember getting Luke Skywalker & C3PO for Christmas, and shaking the box and nothing shook! I remember receiving them in late spring, but the next Christmas everybody was getting SW figures. I am still mad at my mom that she gave them all to my cousin in the mid 80's, only to find out they were worth something years later.

Post: #267808
Topic: OOT has 1 day left
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/267808/action/topic#267808
Time: 25-Jan-2007 1:45 PM

Originally posted by: zombie84The 1995 Faces set was limited too--they stopped production in January of 1996. I remember seeing leftover copies being sold in bargain bins in blockbuster in 1997 for 1.99 when the SE tapes were about to come out.

Limited time refers to production, not store visibility, because technically you could still buy them in second-hand stores anyway. Even Disney i believe doesn't literally pull them from shelves. Its standard practice that "limited availability" means production is stopped at a certain point, and since this is usually in reference to a relatively high-demand product, it doesn't stick around much longer than that.

I agree Zombie & Gaffer that we all knew 'limited time' was a bunch of baloney, but it is a shameless ploy many companies including Lucas do to spice up demand in the shortterm. They want the consumer to say, "I have to buy this now!!"

As I said, Lucas isn't the only one to do this, just like many companies keep re-releasing the same movie as ultra SE, or superbit, or collectors edition, but it is unfair to the average consumer who doesn't frequent the internet or doesn't really know the practices of these companies in the past. I mean you put out a statement that says limited time until December 31st, and they are sitting there in January?

What I mean is as Lucas always said he wanted to get out of the studio system, so he didn't have to deal with big business, his business is just like the rest, thats what makes me laugh about it.

Post: #267795
Topic: OOT has 1 day left
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/267795/action/topic#267795
Time: 25-Jan-2007 12:32 PM

Originally posted by:Gaffer TapeI don't see how that's at all "playing a prank." All the Limited Edition label meant was that they'd stop being produced in December. They'll continue to be sold as long as there's stock to be sold.

Gaffer, in the original publicity release it does say they will be only be avaliable:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This September: Original Unaltered Trilogy on DVD
May 03, 2006

Fans can look forward to a September filled with classic Star Wars nostalgia, led by the premiere of LEGO Star Wars II: The Original Trilogy video game and the long-awaited DVD release of the original theatrical incarnations of the classic Star Wars trilogy.
In response to overwhelming demand, Lucasfilm Ltd. and Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment will release attractively priced individual two-disc releases of Star Wars, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Each release includes the 2004 digitally remastered version of the movie and, as bonus material, the theatrical edition of the film. That means you'll be able to enjoy Star Wars as it first appeared in 1977, Empire in 1980, and Jedi in 1983.

See the title crawl to Star Wars before it was known as Episode IV; see the pioneering, if dated, motion control model work on the attack on the Death Star; groove to Lapti Nek or the Ewok Celebration song like you did when you were a kid; and yes, see Han Solo shoot first.

This release will only be available for a limited time: from September 12th to December 31st.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everyone assumed they were doing what Disney does, where they release something 'limited' and then really do take it off the shelves at that specific date, to get everyone in a frenzy that they have to buy it. Everywhere I go (Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.) Has loads of them, and they actually don't have much stock of the older releases from '04 & '05, so this is their bread & butter release for anyone who wants to buy the Star Wars Trilogy. Gaffer, I know I am preaching to the choir here, but Lucas pulled a fast one on all of us here with this release.

After seeing how crappy this looks on my HDTV, I honestly regret buying it.

Post: #267617
Topic: Do you like the PT ?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/267617/action/topic#267617
Time: 24-Jan-2007 10:50 AM

Originally posted by: TheCassidy
Yeah, I get that - but by that rationale where is Jabba in Episode V? Where is Boba Fett in Episode III? At some point, trying to make the different episodes dovetail in people's minds become ridiculous. I'm content to enjoy them in their historical context without trying to ascribe to much meaning to them.

It's entirely possible to enjoy the Prequels as the Prequels, and the Original Trilogy as the Original Trilogy.

And to his original point about not liking the PT because of no space battles? The opening of EP III was thrilling! I think it's high time Star Wars fans unclenched their assholes for a while.

I agree about overanalyzing the films, but the Emperor is a main character where Jabba & Boba Fett are just secondary characters who can come and go. I honestly believe that all the PT hate you hear is solely from the treatment of the OOT, or the lack there of a great quality release of the OOT.

Of course you will always have the section of fans who hate the PT. But I honestly believe if Lucas put out a great quality OOT DVD set this year with the PT movies & SE movies, I think alot of fans will finally have a choice in what movies they want to watch in great quality and what movies they don't want to watch. I know so many SW fans who were not big fans of ROTJ, but never hated the movie, but I guarantee if Lucas would have changed ANH & ESB back in 1980 to fit in the ROTJ story, and never release the original versions, you would have the same split amongst fans. And then you would have had threads that say, "Do you like ROTJ?"

Post: #267600
Topic: Do you like the PT ?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/267600/action/topic#267600
Time: 24-Jan-2007 7:50 AM

Originally posted by:TheCassidy

He's mentioned in Episode IV. Don't tell me you're one of those people who need everything spelled out for them and can't use your imagination once in a while...

I think he is just saying that The Emperor/Palpatine plays a major role in the PT, and then you shift to ANH, and he is only mentioned once, and watching it as a Linear story, you begin to wonder why this guy isn't in this 4th Episode, other then being mentioned? Yoda not being in Episode IV is OK, because you never know what happens to him once he says he goes into exile, which I thought Lucas was smart not to put in that deleted Dagobah Scene. I don't really think it is about spellling everything out, I think everyone here has to look at it now the way Lucas wants it to be watched, 1-6, and it is very jarring at times because he didn't write or film them that way. I have said this before but if Lucas wanted us to enjoy the saga 1-6 as a linear story, then the last we should see of Anakin is him burning up and ObiWan walking away on Mustafar, so the viewer thinks he is dead, and it atleast makes you wonder who this Darth Vader guy is in Episode IV?

Post: #266506
Topic: What do you love about Star Wars?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266506/action/topic#266506
Time: 18-Jan-2007 3:44 PM

I think the question should be, "Why do you still love SW?"

I still love the movies because they have that rare combination: They are fun movies yet they are still very good movies in a movie sense. Most fun movies usually are 'guilty pleasures' which are not the best made movies in the world, really have no drama, and lack the depth in the overall story, so they are usually just summer action movies you rent and enjoy and never watch it again until it comes on cable. Most quality movies like Schindlers List, Raging Bull, and Platoon don't have that much replay value because you have to be in the mood to watch them cause they are so dramatic.

The OOT movies have that perfect blend everytime you watch them of humor as in Luke, Leia, and Han in the deathstar in SW, drama as Lukes stares at the Binary Sunset, Mythology as Kenobi explains to Luke about the force and his fathers lightsaber, and depth as Vader reveals himself as Lukes father in ESB. But they still possess an overall enjoyable, fun experience for 2 hours cause you have 3 realistic good guys to cheer for and with the combination of constant action, great effects, and awesome music, to me you have the perfect movie experience. The OOT movies are not the best movies of all-time, but they are still my 3 favorites.

Post: #266330
Topic: Seeing the Saga in order - a review by a first-time viewer....
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266330/action/topic#266330
Time: 17-Jan-2007 2:34 PM

Zombie, AOTC is the only PT movie I remotely enjoy and can still watch to this day (OK, I am running from the hills as you guys pelt me with anything you can get your hands on!)

AOTC is what it is, a movie that doesn't take itself too seriously with the exception of the Padme/Anakin love scenes which were made to be cheesy, so I can take them with a grain of salt. Everytime Lucas tried to get this huge dramaticism in the narrative, it comes off as laughable. ROTS is rife with these moments as it takes itself WAY too seriously, mostly cause it is a tragedy.

TPM just comes off as too childish, and I have never really liked it from day one, but for some reason AOTC got me back on the bandwagon in 2002, cause it was atleast going somewhere, and it wasn't that bad of a movie. I liked Count Dooku, I liked the Kamino part with the Clones, the Clone War were fun to watch, and the lightsaber duel with Dooku atleast had some dialogue and maybe cause i am a fan of Christopher Lee. AOTC didn't fuck up continuity the way ROTS did, atleast Anakin went apeshit cause the Tuskens killed his mom for a revenge factor, which is more believable then some dream and then deciding to turn on EVERY person you know for some trick which isn't explained to you.

I know many here disdain this movie more then TPM, and I know many friends whose hatred of the PT was finalized the minute we walked out of the theater in 2002, but for some reason this movie worked for me. I guess I like it cause this is the only movie that Anakin isn't the main figure in the movie, and though he doesn't have loads of screentime in TPM, by Lucas focusing the movie on this 'boy' you have to watch it in that context. Maybe I will watch the saga 2,4,5,6

Post: #266310
Topic: Seeing the Saga in order - a review by a first-time viewer....
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266310/action/topic#266310
Time: 17-Jan-2007 12:36 PM

Cable, that is a good point, and I would welcome him totally reshooting the OT with him directing and writing it, cause those movies would be just as flawed as the PT movies, and then we could totally differentiate the collaborative- Lucas movies, with the Lucas-only movies, and we wouldn't have to watch the tampered-OT movies now.

The whole point is the OT would be so different if Lucas were writing it 1-6 now, and I believe the PT would have been different too as we all alluded to many things that would not be in the PT to preserve the suspense of the OT. It just isn't about 'I am your father' cause this isn't a movie like The Sixth Sense, it is truly about a narrative that keeps its suspense and drama throughout and shouldn't have the viewer one step ahead of the characters, cause what is the reason to watch it then?

Now movies like Titanic and Apollo 13 are examples of movies that we all know the ending, but they are historical movies that are true in the sense of the story they are telling, so it is almost like a documentary, the devil is in the details, not in the suspense. But the great thing about both of those movies I named is there is still an aura of suspense and tension, especially at the end of Apollo 13 that makes the movie that much better, and that is a credit to its directors.

Nobody can honestly look at the 6 movies and say they flow well either way, they don't look the same, they don't feel the same, and they are written trying to tell one characters arcs story, yet the context of that character is totally different in each trilogy. I think the SW saga is the ultimate irony, cause sometimes less is more of everything in the movies: The characters, the backstory, and the use of CG, and what has happened is we all fell in love with the greatest trilogy of all-time, yet we are prisoner to the PT movies now as the EVERY boxset in the future will always contain the SE & PT, and the versions that made SW what it is, we'll wait and see everytime now.

Post: #266248
Topic: Seeing the Saga in order - a review by a first-time viewer....
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266248/action/topic#266248
Time: 16-Jan-2007 10:16 PM

Originally posted by: Tiptup

Anyways, we can discuss alternate timelines as much as we like, but Star Wars is what it has now become. The prequel’s concepts weren’t done well. Where do the fans with higher standards go from here? Do we simply pretend that the later Star Wars films and content don’t exist in our world and then divorce ourselves from the pop culture?

This is a tough one, and one that I have not been able to erase from memory. For every movie series, I was always able to just vanish from my mind the bad movies: Superman III & IV, Jurassic Park II & III, Terminator 3, Rocky V, etc., but for some reason I can't divorce the PT movies from the OT story now, and I believe it is because it was a prequel story.

With every movies series and when the bad movies start hitting the theaters, that story happens AFTER the classics, so you can pretend it doesn't happen, cause it has no bearing on the previous movies. With the PT movies, they are stuck in our minds whether you like them, hate them, or love them. When I see the scene with Leia/Luke in ROTJ talking about their mother I think about Padme losing the will to live, UGGH! When I see Vader talk to Luke about, "You don't know the power of the darkside......" and the Emperor talking to Luke about how his father can never turn back..... I think of Anakin whole messy turn scene in ROTS and how he flips a switch and he is Darth Vader. I can't help but still think of C3PO now as that droid who Anakin built, and saying, "My parts are showing....." I can't help but see Chewbacca and think of his 'good relations' with Yoda. I could go on and on, but you guys know all the tie ins.

Sadly, I dont' think I will ever be able to look at SW ever the same again, as the PT will always be there sitting right in front of my face when scenes that talk about the PT in the OT are uttered by those characters. Before you wondered why Vader turned, what the Clone Wars were, what the Jedi were like in their heyday, and now for better or worse, we got our answers.

In a strange sense, by Lucas marrying the movies and trilogies together as one story, it has actually made any SW fan be so extreme in their views, as almost a take it or leave now. With movies like Indiana Jones & Harry Potter, you can love certain ones and like certain ones and even hate certain ones, but that wont taint the individual movies. I love Raiders & Temple of Doom but am not a big fan of Last Crusade and I probably won't like Indy IV, but so what, none of them effect the other movie other then that they have the same characters in some new adventure.

Sadly, as much as I really have soured on the PT through the years, I do see it as the complete story now, and it almost like I can't throw it away, yet I know they are bad, and I know when I try to watch them, I start pulling my hair out. I know this sounds dramatic, but it is only dramatic in the context of watching the movies, not everyday life, and once I turn the movies off, I could care less, but sadly once I turn the movies on, I constantly grapple with so many questions that have made the series a big head scratcher:

-Do I watch the SE in pristine quality, but have to deal with all the cringeworthy shit?

-Do I watch the OOT in average quality, but can enjoy the movies the way I watched them for so long?

-Do I try to watch the OOT movies, and just forget about every bad PT plot point that pervades the movies now?

-Do I watch the saga 1-6, and just give in to Lucas and accept mediocrity now for the few enjoyable moments of the PT that do make the overall story better, and in a sense say to yourself, "The PT movies could be the biggest guilty pleasure movies in the history of movies."

Ahhhhhh, what it is to be a SW fan thesedays.

Post: #266227
Topic: Seeing the Saga in order - a review by a first-time viewer....
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266227/action/topic#266227
Time: 16-Jan-2007 7:18 PM

I honestly think the PT sounds cool on paper, and I think back to late '98, or even before each PT movie, and the anticipation....... But I think it is the anticipation and the what if..... that we all think this could have been some great trilogy to tack on to the OT. I still think that it was a bad idea in the mid 90's, and I admit I got sucked in, cause I am an OOT fanboy (I can't believe I have to be this desciptive now on my fanbase name!)

I worried from day one the characters of the PT, even in 1998 wouldn't match up with Luke, Leia, and Han, it was almost impossible to create a new set characters, even though some were retreads from the OT, they were essentially younger with different personalities. Just think of the success of characters in the OOT, Kenobi dies in SW, and he creates Yoda in ESB, perfect! He creates Lando in ESB to kinda rival Han Solo, awesome! He creates Boba Fett, who has 10 minutes of screentime, and the fanbase goes nuts. He then creates Jabba the Hutt, who as a kid I was utterly fascinated with him and the palace he lie in. Throw in Chewy, R2, C3PO, Tarkin, and oh yeah those two bad guys: The Emperor & Vader, and the only weak link of the OOT was The Ewoks.

Now look at the PT characters other then the big 4 of Padme, Anakin, Palps, and Kenobi:
-Mace Windu = Boring
-Jar Jar = Do I need to expound
-Grevious = Get him some Robitussin
-Boss Nass = Stop slobbering!
-Captain Panaka = bland
-Dex at the Diner = Go flip burgers and get the fuck out a SW movie!
-Jango Fett = Unoriginal
-QuiGon = Good character, only shining spot of TPM
-Count Dooku = Good bad guy, wasted in ROTS
-Darth Maul = Looks cool, does he talk?
-Two Headed Pod Racer Announcer = UGGGH
-Every character in the pod race = Made for 5 year olds
-Lama Su = Sounds like a porno character

Just look at the list of PT characters, and chime in if I missed anymore gems, and then look at the OOT characters, it is like night and day of a bunch of cool characters compared to a bunch of lame characters that you can't take half of them seriously. I knew the characters wouldn't be as good in the PT, but looking at this list, are there any that compete with the OOT characters?

Post: #266155
Topic: Seeing the Saga in order - a review by a first-time viewer....
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266155/action/topic#266155
Time: 16-Jan-2007 2:50 PM

Originally posted by: Cable-X1

But I really think it was good to make 1-3. I think it was the logical thing to do. There was a hell of an interesting story there. The Jedi being betrayed by one of their own and getting ruthlessly slaughtered. The government of an entire galaxy being subverted into a fascist state and the role one man plays in it and how his offspring will have to ultimately deal with it. That's some good shit dammit!!!
.

Cable, we seem to be one of the few left here who post reguarly, so I say we take the topic wherever we want to. I am very torn in whether there is a story for 3 movies of the PT, cause I really don't think there was. I mean what attracted us to the PT story, plot points that related to the OT movies right? What attracted us to the OT movies, the movies!

The PT to me is just a summing up or an overview of the fill in the blanks of the OT movies, just in a more macro way. It has some cool shit in there, but is it really entertaining like the OT movies, and I am saying that in the vein that it was done well by Lucas. When I was in my 1-6 phase last year of hoping this would all work and I would be a saga fan the way I became an OOT fan, I noticed that I was watching the PT movies solely because it was part of the story, and more or less cause they were there. In that vein, 3 movies is WAY too many to sit through, cause at what point do you say, is this really needed?

The PT story does not have the replay value of the OT, and I can't explain it, but it just doesn't. I don't know, I still think that there is a PT story out there to be told, but it just seems that a trilogy was not needed, and maybe it could have been told in 2 movies while changing the focus so you don't have too much exposition. Maybe as I said, just one was needed, cause I see how Godfather II worked for half of a 3 hour movie, and I say was there anything more that needed to be told to the viewer? Sure there is more story of Vito Corleone, but that doesn't mean it will translate well on screen, a one movie flashback was just enough to give you the backround and keep your interest, and not be too much.

Post: #266137
Topic: Seeing the Saga in order - a review by a first-time viewer....
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266137/action/topic#266137
Time: 16-Jan-2007 2:02 PM

Originally posted by: vote_for_palpatine

Lucas misunderstood the fans - big surprise. We didn't want the gaps filled in to the OT after ROTJ - we just wanted more Star Wars. At that time, we assumed he could still knock out a good Star Wars movie. The PT may have been better if it had nothing to do with the OT.

Very interesting point, but I don't think Lucas had the creativity to craft a whole new trilogy from top to bottom with all new characters, story arcs, etc. The PT is so easy to fall back on when it doubt, cause Lucas used the 'mirror the trilogies' rule, which to many of the PT gushers was great to see how Anakin & Luke react to the same thing, but to many of us it seemed redundant. I didn't like the contant mirroring of each trilogy, cause if you look at ESB & SW, the two movies have ZERO of anything that is similar, and that why everyone loves them!

It would be cool to craft a prequel trilogy set hundreds of years before ANH, and essentially not having any OT characters in it, but still show the beginning of the republic in that sense. There would still have to be some underlying reason to tell the new story, and I really can't think of one, and leads me to believe that this whole disaster should have ended in 1983, and leave it be as the greatest trilogy ever.

Post: #266118
Topic: Seeing the Saga in order - a review by a first-time viewer....
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266118/action/topic#266118
Time: 16-Jan-2007 12:39 PM

To give you my own way of growing up watching movies, I saw many sequels before the originals, so I wasn't tainted at all. Before the days of VCR, or rather owning a VCR, I only watched movies as a kid on HBO and that was it. I saw the OT a zillion times on HBO, but I always saw Superman II on HBO before ever seeing Superman I. When I saw Superman I, I thought it was OK, but Superman II to me as a kid was the shit. Years later, and as I have aged, Superman I is clearly the better film. Same with Rocky movies, I was too young to see Rocky I in the theater, but always watched Rocky II on HBO and just heard about Rocky I from my brothers. I thought Rocky I was too slow as a kid and thought Rocky II & III were much better movies. Fast forward 10-15 years, Rocky I is an utter classic, and even though I saw them out of order, quality truimphs over time.

Don't be fooled by kids and their views of SW, remember they are kids. As a 10 year old kid in 1983, I thought ROTJ was better then ESB, and I have done a 180 over time, and now I see ROTJ as the weak link of the OT movies. I think kids will watch it 1-6, and the only thing I fear is they wont be grabbed at first by TPM and may not really care to continue on with the rest of the movies, cause remember SW/ANH is what made me a fan, and I was dying to see the other movies after that, so my love of SW/ANH makes the fan I am today. Luckily we can distinguish the OOT story with the saga story, so we are fortunate to just totally not even think of the PT and still feel the story is complete, with 1-6 new SW fans, they just won't love the 1-6, and may like individual movies, but wont distinguish the story of Luke that we grew up with, cause remember it is the tragedy of Darth Vader now, and that is the X-factor that is not prevailent in ANY other movie series.

Post: #266109
Topic: Seeing the Saga in order - a review by a first-time viewer....
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266109/action/topic#266109
Time: 16-Jan-2007 12:06 PM

Cable, it just comes down to money, and that is where Lucas lost his true vision of SW and now it is 'what might have been.' I see what Lucas was trying to do, and I understand what he was trying to make out of the saga, the same way he took the saga in a vastly different turn with ESB/ROTJ. I recently watched the OOT '95 VHS interviews with Lucas, and he talks about the upcoming PT movies. "The real story has not been told yet." WHAT??????

Lately I have been going back and finding any old interviews by Lucas pre-TPM, and it is frustrating cause the writing was on the wall then, about where he was going with this saga, and I can't believe I didn't pick it up then. By him saying the real story hasn't been told yet, is either a master sales pitch to the viewer in 1995 that would get anyone juiced to see what is coming up, or if you think about it, he was already denegrating the OT story, because he wasn't viewing the PT as a backstory.

Because it was shot first, the OT HAD to be the real story, and the PT was just fill in the blanks, it wouldn't work any other way, unless Lucas had it planned from the start. The OT story suffers now in 1-6 order, but in turn the PT suffers too cause there are so many little winks to the viewer put in by Lucas that have zero meaning when first watched, "Someday Anakin, you are going to be the death of me." Obiwan said in AOTC. He never would have said that in a true 1-6 story, cause it would be a red flag to the viewer that it either is totally true, or it would pass right over their heads.

I still contend Lucas should have made one 3 1/2 hour prequel movie that resembles ROTS in structure, but fleshes it out a bit more with some flashbacks to get the viewer up to speed onto what is happening, cause in all honesty, you could have someone watch 4,5,6 and then show them Episode III and with alittle backround before they start watching it, it is a standalone movie in many respects. That way the PT would never overshadow the OT just like Godfather II Deniro scenes don't overshadow the real story of Pacinos through the trilogy, instead you have this tug of war of what trilogy you like more.

Post: #266099
Topic: Seeing the Saga in order - a review by a first-time viewer....
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/266099/action/topic#266099
Time: 16-Jan-2007 11:28 AM

Originally posted by: Cable-X1

That's one of the things I don't like about the ending of ep3. It does end a little too abruptly. The other films allow you to catch your breath after all the action and then they end. Ep3 does slow down, but it throws all this shit at you in those last minutes...way too much shit I might add and then it abruptly ends and connects TOO much with Ep4.

It should have ended the whole PT on a melancholy note with everything tied up but sets up Ep4. Remember there's 20 years in between 3 and 4. The end of 3 should feel like things are gonna be this way for a long time.

I don't know really....not sure I'm articulating this correctly. The ending should have just been done differently, that's all. It doesn't feel right to me.

Episode III ending was made by Lucas to be watched as the last episode in the saga, not the third. He even admits in the commentary, "I didn't need to show all the exposition of where everyone goes for the next 20 years, and I almost took it out of the final cut, but I knew people wanted to see it."

He put the DeathStar, Luke/Leia being brought to their homes, and even the construction of Vader in the movie solely cause alot of SW fans who saw it in 2005 would have been pissed if it wasn't shown, but that goes against everything storytelling wise of 1-6. And there lies the problem with trying to make this backstory that should be watched after the OT into a linear story now, Lucas didn't even try to appease the new 1-6 fan, he tried to appease the 4-6,1-3 fan, yet also says at the end of ROTS commentary, "The movies are meant be watched 1-6, and only thought of as one big movie, not 6 individual movies as the 'tragedy of Darth Vader.' That is the problem SW fans face who have seen the OT first, and who see the PT first, its fucked up both ways now.

Post: #265945
Topic: Seeing the Saga in order - a review by a first-time viewer....
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/265945/action/topic#265945
Time: 15-Jan-2007 7:24 PM

Originally posted by: Cable-X1
Yeah....ESB introduced something more to the first film and it was done very well.

I never minded the Luke/Leia thing. I agree that it was kinda stupid to make the two siblings, but only cuz it was handled really bad. You find out they're related and nothing comes of it. Now if Leia had showed up in that throne room on the Death Star at the end of ROTJ.....damn.....that would have kicked the movie up a few notches and would have put it in the same league as ESB.

Or even worse, if you had PT Lucas write the ending of ROTJ, you would have Luke/Leia give each other a big smooch again! And the PT defenders would say, "Well that isn't a continuity error, the Skywalkers are a very expressive family."

Post: #265913
Topic: Seeing the Saga in order - a review by a first-time viewer....
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/265913/action/topic#265913
Time: 15-Jan-2007 3:39 PM

Originally posted by: Cable-X1I think most of us could forgive the shift if it was done good though...

Anakin's "tragedy" really wasn't that tragic either. It COULD have been tragic, but it was handled horribly. That's the whole thing. Lucas took it in the wrong direction and then fucked up the execution of it. Talk about really blowing it...

One of my friends told me the same exact thing, saying if Anakins story was compelling, you wouldn't have a problem with the new context of the 'Vader story' now. I guess to give an analogy, I never loved Vader being Lukes father in ESB at first, cause I was such a SW '77 fan and the context that was told, but ESB was so damn good, and ROTJ even with the Leia/Luke 'other' plot point, were good enough where I didn't disregard the OOT story as a whole. Good points, Cable.

Post: #265909
Topic: Seeing the Saga in order - a review by a first-time viewer....
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/265909/action/topic#265909
Time: 15-Jan-2007 3:18 PM

Originally posted by: Cable-X1

I think the biggest mistake was to shift the focus to Anakin. That was retarded to the extreme. The PT should have been about Anakin and the OT was about Luke, plain and simple, cut and dry.

So true, and this is where Lucas went Vader crazy. He saw the reaction of 'I am your father.' and thought anything with Vader people would eat up. There is a segment of the SW fans that love Vader, but there is a segment of fans who fell in love with Luke, Leia, and Han and the Rebels vs Empire story, and that is all lost in the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker now.

Post: #265884
Topic: Seeing the Saga in order - a review by a first-time viewer....
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/265884/action/topic#265884
Time: 15-Jan-2007 1:03 PM

You are right that we all knew the suprises going in, and maybe I am taking it a bit far, but the only way I thought the PT would succeed, would be a true backstory. One that is NOT supposed to be watched before OT, and everything that is made in it is written that you have seen the OT first.

The end of ROTS is a perfect example of putting in plot points to appease the OT fans. If Lucas wanted to make a compelling 1-6 story, Anakin should have been left burning on Mustafar, and never seen again til he breaks down the door in ANH at the beginning. That way the whole OT you are watching it wondering who this Vader guy, holy shit, it is Anakin! He survived!!! Now there would have to be some dialogue changes in ANH by Kenobi to compliment the linear storytelling, but if Lucas truly wanted the story to be watched in 1-6 fashion, the ending of ROTS would be totally different.

Also, there are things in the PT just to appease the OT fans, cameos by Jabba, the jawas, and the tuskens in the pod race which are pointless. Owen would have had a much different role had it been written 1-6, but Lucas had to find a way to get him in so he makes him fucking own C3PO 20 years before buying him unknowingly again?

The only thing that Lucas was concerned about in the PT was Anakins character arc, and that is the only thing that he wants to succeed in the 1-6 storytelling now, as you see this little boy who is a good kid go down a dark rode to become Darth Vader and then redeem himself in ROTJ at the end of the movie. Now that is a cool story, the problem is the fucking OT only really covers that story at the end of ESB, and the last hour ROTJ! So you basically have most of ANH, half of ESB, and half of ROTJ that don't deal with Anakins character arc.

Post: #265876
Topic: Seeing the Saga in order - a review by a first-time viewer....
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/265876/action/topic#265876
Time: 15-Jan-2007 12:37 PM

In all honesty, I don't think the saga works either way 4-6,1-3, or 1-6, cause the first trilogy you watch spoils almost everything in the second trilogy. Think about all the stuff we knew about the PT going into, and think of a new viewer watching them 1-6 and actually being one step ahead of the characters in terms of what they know!

The biggest flaw of this whole saga idea by George is tying the trilogies together, and I don't think overall it will ever work whatever way you watch them. Sure there are diehards who will say it works 1-6, or vice versa, but I say they weren't written in a linear fashion, so how the hell can you watch them in a linear 1-6 fashion. As for 4-6,1-3, the OT was written with a totally different context of how Lucas rewrote the story, or the 'tragedy of Anakin Skywalker' is now, so there is a jarring effect between trilogies.

It is a shame cause as much as I think the PT is average I have tried and tried and tried to watch it 4-6,1-3 or 1-6 or even 3-6 as ROTS being a prologue to the OT, and it is just too jarring in every sense of how they were made. One trilogy has 95% CG locations, and the other has real locations, that is a huge leap from watching one to the other, and it just doesn't flow either way. No matter how much Lucas keeps updating the OT, it is never going to blend well with the PT, cause they would literally have to reshoot all backrounds and put in full CG locations and somehow cut & paste in Han, Luke, Leia, etc.

I don't even care what anyone says about what order works best anymore, cause either way ruins the other trilogy. The only way it could have worked is if Lucas actually told the PT movies through flashbacks in the post ROTJ days as maybe bring back Mark Hammill telling his son about Darth Vader, The Clone Wars, the death of his grandmom, etc. Then watching them 4-6,1-3 would work cause the PT would be a true backstory of information, not a linear story.

Godfather II did it to perfection as it mirrored flashbacks all through the movie of young Vito Corleone and how he came to power, and it never made you look at Godfather I in a different way, cause Coppola released a recut version in 1977 of everything in chronological order, and it just didn't work. The problem with the SW saga is it didn't make the backstory a true backstory like Godfather II to begin with to fall back on when the chronological order didn't work.

Post: #265489
Topic: Harrison Ford turns down chance to reprise Han Solo Role!
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/265489/action/topic#265489
Time: 12-Jan-2007 3:18 PM

I found this at TFN talking about the whole story of Harrison Ford & the Han Solo character:

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*Updated! : We've just gotten word through very reliable sources that this was in fact a fabricated story or misunderstanding at the Daily Star. Make no mistake that Harrison Ford is indeed going to be filming Indy 4. However, the Star Wars spin off portion was inaccurate.
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Post: #265488
Topic: Anywhere to keep up on news, or gossip about the archival editions coming?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/265488/action/topic#265488
Time: 12-Jan-2007 3:16 PM

Originally posted by: generalfrevious

The best solution would to have never tampered with the originals to begin with and keep the SE as a novelty.

That may be my new sig!

Post: #265387
Topic: Anywhere to keep up on news, or gossip about the archival editions coming?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/265387/action/topic#265387
Time: 11-Jan-2007 9:26 PM

Originally posted by: JediRandy

The trick is not to obsess over a scream as if that scream contains major plot points crucial to the trilogy. Maybe then you'll be able to enjoy arguably the best SW flick without turning into a whiney fanboy for what amounts to 2 seconds out of a 6+ hour trilogy.

Yes, but you missed my whole point, why did Lucas change it and change it back? Do I care about the scream, not really, but the whole point of Lucas changing the movies is that he said he couldn't get all his vision on screen when he filmed them. Remember, "Sorry you fell in love with that half completed movie," Statement?

So as McCallum chastises the fans for obsessing and saying George Lucas is just completing his vision, I say that is baloney, he is just tampering more and more to something so trivial like Han shooting first. These are things that Lucas could have put in the movies from 77-83, but every new edition he continues to tamper with them, where I say, "WHY?" The movies were fine from 77-83, so leave them alone, and I only obsess because they are so pointless.