CO

User Group: Members
Join date: 25-Jul-2005
Last activity: 22-Apr-2019
Posts: 1,568

Post History

Post: #273695
Topic: a rumor from thedigitalbits.com...
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/273695/action/topic#273695
Time: 24-Feb-2007 7:21 PM

Originally posted by: zombie84
You will never get it "timeless," in the true sense of the word. Star Wars is a monumental piece of cinema that has a very important place in history as a film released in the late 70's--just deal with it. Nothing has stopped people from enjoying Gone With the Wind or Wizard of Oz just because the films are not "modern" or whatever.

Zombie this is why I believe Lucas will keep updating the OT films and eventually the PT too, he doesn't want a new generation to look at them and not watch them because of their age. Now I totally disagree cause great movies always stand the test of time, but I do have friends wont watch black and white movies soley because we all grew up in color movies.

Just take King Kong 1933 for example, how many kids today are going to watch that over King Kong 2005? I think King Kong 1933 is a better movie then Peter Jacksons movie, and when I do watch it I am amazed at the technology they were able to translate on screen for that time, but I suspect most moviegoers are not going to rent some black & white King Kong when they can watch CG King Kong in color.

Now I am not defending these types of moviegoers, but I think that Lucas is scared 20 years from that if he didn't update the OT movies, people would look at them they way they look at King Kong 1933, only cause they grew up in an age of CG the way all of us grew up in color movies.

So I think Lucas will redo Jabba in ANH again sometime in the future, and Yoda in TPM, and something else that he deemed 'old' looking. The reason I feel this way is that Lucas didn't stop after 1997, and if he never touched the OT films after the SE 1.0, then I would concede that he wanted to do somethings he couldn't do in the 70's. But once they redid Jabba in the SE 2.0, I knew they keep saying, "This one looks better then the '97 Jabba, just wait 10 years and he will look just like the ROTJ Puppet!"

And this is why I always never understood why Lucas supressed the OOT, he could have accomodated both fans and still succeeded in what he was trying to accomplish, never make a new generation feel the effects are so dated they lose sight of the quality of the movie. Most new fans would watch the SE, cause they wouldn't know about Han shooting first or Sebastian Shaw, so they would have no frame of reference towards that matter, they would just see the new Yavin battle that is spruced up and enjoy it for that. In the same vein, we the generation that grew up with the OOT could enjoy the movies for their effects cause we have a frame of reference of how cool these effects were at their time.

I really think the SE are purely marketing in a sense that every new version has something new so it gives the fan something to look forward to, and partially Lucas doesn't want SW to be deemed inferior to todays movies. What Lucas miscalculated is that many movies that are regarded with cool effects that blew everyone away like Independence Day and Twister, no one gives a shit about anymore cause they are only good to show off your surround sound system, and are a pure guilty pleasure movie with zero story, zero substance, and zero character development, and SW was successful because it had all of those qualities along with great effects.

Post: #273685
Topic: a rumor from thedigitalbits.com...
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/273685/action/topic#273685
Time: 24-Feb-2007 5:50 PM

Originally posted by: Jumpman

CO, you can't tell me The Battle of Yavin doesn't look 20 times better in its Special Edition for than the theatrical version?

This is a key point, cause many years ago I used to be on your side with this example. I used to like some updates that Lucas made with the SE, but the problem is what one person sees as a good change, another might see as a bad change. A friend of mine who hated the Greedo shooting first change back in 1997 told me right after the SE release that year after I sorta defended them, "The problem is when a director starts changing movies, you may like some at first, but eventually there will be one that really pisses you off, and then you will hate that he even tampered with them to begin with."

That is exactly what happened to me, I put up with Greedo shooting first, cause I did like the Yavin battle cleaned, and many other things didn't bother me that bad. Fast forward to 2004 and Lucas inserts Hayden into ROTJ, WHOA!!!!!!!! Wait a second here, I never had a problem with updating effects, but now you are replacing actors? So what happened is I went from a SE defender to a SE hater, cause I got fed up with the changes, and started just hating anything about the SE. I started to then REALLY hate Jedirocks, and then I started to despise Greedo shooting first, and then Lucas takes out Lukes wink to the force ghost too?

That is why I believe that you can't go and tamper with films, because there is always going to be someone out there who has seen the movies a zillion times who may really hate one or more changes. Some people despise JediRocks the most, some Greedo shooting first, some like me who hate Hayden in ROTJ the most, it just gets to the point where you just go back to the OOT and say the experiment failed.

Post: #273618
Topic: a rumor from thedigitalbits.com...
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/273618/action/topic#273618
Time: 24-Feb-2007 9:38 AM

Originally posted by: Jumpman<br

So again, if he really wants to mend fences with certain circles, then he should release them remastered. But, I think Lucas should continue to push for what he feels Star Wars really is (since this is his creation from pretty much top to bottom)....because again, it's not like changed them in the manner of say Kingdom of Heaven or Alexander. He changed some things that would've been that way had he had what he needed back when he was originally making these films....

But Jumpman, you keep blaming fans like me for bitching when the whole DVD sinces its inception has been botched. When you have a creator say 'this' version doesn't exist, you have to understand that people will take offense to that statement, cause I watched and loved those versions for 20 years, and now your telling me they are crap?

I have always been of the group of fans that there are room for the SE & OOT in EVERY release, just like The Abyss, just like LOTR, just like Superman, just like Terminator 2, that is the way it is when you change a movie after its been released for many years, you are going to have people that like one version over the other.

But for Lucas to say the OOT doesn't exist in 2003, then put it out in 2006 in laserdisk quality and not expect fans to get pissed, I don't know what else to say. He deliberately put them out to look worse then the SE, so people would not make that choice. Trust me, I have compared them, the SE looks spectacular on an HDTV, and the OOT looks all grainy and dull, and that is what Lucas was trying to accomplish, make the fan go back to the SE cause the OOT is so crappy, yet still take their money.

As for SW and DVD releases, most friends I know don't give a shit anymore, and don't go on the internet like you and I, so whatever is said on either side is not a true gauge of the 'majority' But I did notice this is the first time in my life of being a SW fan that many of my friends are just fed up with the whole thing and think it is a joke. I know many friends who won't buy the rumored Saga boxset just out of principle, cause they are tired of rebuying the damn movies every year, and feel they are getting their chains yanked.

I just remember back in the early 90's when the OT was being released and released on VHS & Laserdisk, my friends and I would run out the day it came out, even though nothing was changed back then. But what Lucas has created has been a mistrust amongst the fanbase because he is all over the place. Many Saga fans feel betrayed he went back on his word for releasing the OOT last year, and many of us here just want the versions we loved from 77-96 in great quality. So what Lucas has done has just made most people put their hands up and shake their heads towards this whole matter.

Post: #273611
Topic: a rumor from thedigitalbits.com...
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/273611/action/topic#273611
Time: 24-Feb-2007 8:53 AM

Originally posted by: Jumpman

Not going to discuss the merits of having Hayden at the end of Return of the Jedi. It's been done to death.
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CO's reply: Because that goes against the old argument, Lucas was just changing things cosmetically that he couldn't do in 1977, and now all of the sudden you have new actors in a 20 year old movie. And it does change the context now of the saga, cause Lucas is now saying that Anakin died in ROTS, and that is why he comes back as Hayden ROTJ. I would ask you, who is that guy who is conflicted all through ROTJ? ANAKIN!!!!!! He is the same guy!! So not only is it jarring to many of us who saw it for 20 years, it doesn't make sense.

As for the "rumor", what do you think is the percentage of "fans" that desperately need a remastered version of the theatrical releases? I'm curious because I don't see it as large as some here seem to think it is....
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Co's response: I don't think everyone needs it, but you are forgetting about who rebuys movies from a movie series: Diehards. The casual fans don't keep rebuying the same movies over and over again, hence why they are casual. There are large enough group out there who would gladly pay for a OOT remastered set, not everyone, but still a good bit.

And the reason he's celebrate the 30th Anniversary with "his version of Episode IV" is because basically, it's still the same, damn film...cosmetic changes and all. It's still the same film that has Luke, Han, and Leia as the main characters. Obi-Wan still gets it in the end. The Death Star still gets destroyed. The music is still by John Williams. The actors that played them in 1977 are still playing them in the 2004 versions. I mean, it begins the same and ends the same....
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Does it end the same? The last time I checked the whole ending of ROTJ montage is different, with the new song, the addition of new planets, taking out of the Ewok song, and the stupidest subtraction is when Lucas took out Lukes wink to the force ghosts! That was a nice moment gone from the SE because Lucas didn't have a vision of Luke winking in 1983?

As for the overall story, I do agree that that has stayed the same, but that still doesn't justify it is right. Why doesn't Coppola change Pacino in The Godfather and have him shoot second as the Cop & Solazzo shoot first in the Italian Restaurant so it can make Pacino's character less of a cold blooded killer. I mean it would only be a 5 second change? Whether it be 5 seconds or literally changing the whole movie, it is still unnecessary for something that was beloved and successful.

Casual fans, which make of the majority, don't have this feverish need to have the theatrical versions of the film released on DVD. When they pop in Star Wars, that's what they see. It feels Star Wars to them.

And even if Lucas were to relent and release it how this "core group" wanted them, the bitchin' would never, ever stop. It just wouldn't. That's the nature of Star Wars fans now. If everything was perfect except for one small oversight that nobody at Lucasfilm caught but some zealot fan caught, all hell would break loose and the bitchin' at Lucas would continue. It just would.

Why should he relent?
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CO's response: Please stop with the argument that everyone is bitchin, I have argued with you before Jumpman on TFN, and if you go read the posts when the OOT was announced on May 4th before everyone knew it was non-anamorphic, 95% of the fans were happy and satisfied. Sure there are always idiots who complain about the covers, and the extras, but most people here would be happy with the OOT remastered. And by the way do you still not want the OOT to be released in anamorphic like you said last August to me on TFN? Cause I always found that pretty petty when you constantly say we are the fans that are bitchin.

Post: #273609
Topic: a rumor from thedigitalbits.com...
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/273609/action/topic#273609
Time: 24-Feb-2007 8:20 AM

Originally posted by: Jumpman
CO,

They might if they don't see the changes as the destruction of the story like some believe they are. Changes or no changes, the stories haven't changed. It's not like Lucas went back to the Original Trilogy and literally disassembled each film and re-edited the films to be something totally different. He's nowhere near that point. A subtle story point here and there, maybe but it's not like Ridley Scott's Kingdom of Heaven or what Oliver Stone had done with Alexander....

And what I find the most funny about this "rumor" is the fact that many fans said they were done with Lucas after the last release of the films and weren't going to spend any more cash and TIME on Star Wars and yet, this "rumor" comes out and everyone is upset. Either you stick to your guns and be done with Lucas and Star Wars or you're not.

People talk about Lucas changing his mind on a whim but fans are even worse at it when it comes to this franchise.

I am sorry but the changing of an actor at the end scene of ROTJ changes the story drastically. Changing Hayden in ROTJ is different the updating ObiWans hut in ANH, but we have been through this a zillion times........

As for the rumor, most fans here have been steadfast that as long as Lucas remasters the OOT they will buy it, even if it includes the PT & SE. Sure there are always a couple fringe fans who won't buy anything anymore, but 99% of the fans here will gladly shell out money for a nice fully restored OOT versions, so it isn't about sticking to our guns.

Jumpman, DVD has been out for 10 years and the fans have yet to get a nice version of the OOT on DVD, and I find it hilareous that Lucas will celebrate the 30th Anniversary of SW this year, yet he says 'that' version doesn't exist anymore? Why doesn't he just celebrate the 10th Anniversary of SW this year because that is how long 'his' versions have been viewed by the public.

Post: #273606
Topic: a rumor from thedigitalbits.com...
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/273606/action/topic#273606
Time: 24-Feb-2007 7:53 AM

Originally posted by: Knightmessenger

I'm wondering if anyone else thinks Lucas wouldn't have pissed off so many people as much if he had merely included the letterbox original versions the first time around and then waited for this year to release another OT dvd set.

For the first time in SW history, Lucas underestimated the fans, and the sad fact is it has been happening for 10 years now and now he is starting to get the point. Everyone I know enjoyed the SE in 1997, but nobody I know PREFERS them! Everyone I know enjoyed the PT from 99-05, but nobody I know LOVES them! Everyone I know loves the OOT movies, and enjoys everything else in the universe, but when you don't love something you aren't going to keep rebuying things like sheep. I would buy the OOT versions on VHS & DVD over and over again if Lucas never made the PT & SE cause I am such a diehard fan, and thats what diehard fans do, they don't mind shelling out money for something they already have. I just find it hard to believe that a majority of SW fans will buy a new DVD set solely on more changes to the OT and updated PT movies.

Post: #273536
Topic: a rumor from thedigitalbits.com...
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/273536/action/topic#273536
Time: 23-Feb-2007 7:21 PM

Lucasfilm has botched the OT DVD from day one of DVD's inception, and what has happened as they have milked the fans without one decent release, and now everybody is fed up!

They should have released the OOT & SE together in one box set back in 2001/2002, just barebones releases with high quality anamorphic video to satisfy every fan out there. EVERY SW fan would have bought it back then, cause it would satisfy all parties. Then they could have released the Super Duper Boxset this year to mark the 30th Anniversary with deleted scenes, trailers, documentaries, etc. The boxset would now include the PT movies, along with the SE movies, and the OOT fully remastered too. EVERY SW fan would have bought it cause there wouldn't have been a SW release in 5-6 years so many fans would be ready for something new along the lines of bonus material since the saga is finished now. Then in 2010-2011 Lucas could release the same boxset in BlueRay with the SE/OOT & the same specs as the '07 boxset, and EVERY fan would run to the store to watch SW in Highdef.

They could have had 3 big DVD boxset sellers in the span of 10 years, while alienating zero fans. Now what they have done is that they have never sold to the maxium SW audience on ANY of the boxsets! So they have actually lost money cause they have jaded so many fans and made fans pick and choose which versions they want. You will have older fans who won't buy the SE versions, then you have younger fans who buy the OOT set, and then you will have fans with HDTV's who won't buy anything non-anamorphic. And then you have a subset of fans who just don't give a shit anymore and are turned off towards the whole thing.

Inclusion George, that is the best way to go about the future of SW and your fans. You made a statement years ago that this versions does exist and this versions doesn't exist, and now you have fans that are actually taking you up on that offer now! Can you understand why sales have been less then you thought?

Post: #272778
Topic: Getting too old for this sort of thing?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/272778/action/topic#272778
Time: 19-Feb-2007 8:41 PM

Originally posted by: Nanner Split
18. Does that make me the baby here?

I discovered Star Wars at a very early age to make up for it. I stumbled across a recording of ROTJ that my dad had gotten off of the TV, and wondering what the hell the Jabba's Palace scene was all about. My dad bought the VHS box set (the pre-FACES one with the cool poster artwork) not long afterward, and I've been a fan ever since.

I am interested to see what friends your age think of the OOT, SE, PT? Everyone I hang out with is my age, so we all grew up seeing all 3 movies in the theater, so the SE & PT & ROTJ are all inferior to SW & ESB. Everyone I know thinks EXACTLY that way: They rank them SW/ESB (some love ESB more, some love SW more), then ROTJ, then the PT movies.

Is there anyone you know who loves the PT? Loves the SE more then the OOT?

Post: #272684
Topic: Getting too old for this sort of thing?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/272684/action/topic#272684
Time: 19-Feb-2007 12:43 PM

I am 34, so I do remember seeing SW as a 5 year old in 1977, but can't remember that much of it. I do remember ESB in 1980, and being a scared as shit walking out of that theater as an 8 year old boy. Of course ROTJ was awesome in '83 as an 11 year old.
Never too old for SW, it is the one thing that my friends and I still talk about today from our childhoods and that we still love today. You need some things from your youth to keep you young.

Post: #272581
Topic: What the fuck??? : George is definitely gone "bye bye"
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/272581/action/topic#272581
Time: 18-Feb-2007 3:23 PM

Originally posted by: TheCassidy

The negativity around Star Wars now really turns me off of it, but I'm thinking I'm alone in my opinion so I'll shut up!

I agree with you on that, but I think the negativity around here will be hostile towards Lucas until he treats the OOT with some respect in this rumored boxset this year.

I think what myself and Zombie, and many other posters are just saying is that Lucas was god to us before the SE & PT, and now looking at the whole picture of just the OT, I think I gave Lucas TOO much credit. I am not saying the guy is a hack, cause he wrote & directed my favorite movie of all-time, but the flaws of the PT & SE really opened my eyes to some of the flaws of ROTJ, and how ESB could have been worse then it is.

Growing up, I always thought Lucas directed every SW film, I never bothered to check the credits at the end, I thought Lucas did EVERYTHING on the OT. And when the SE & PT came out, and I began checking the history of SW, I began to realize how much more collaboration the OT was compared to the PT, and how Kasdan wrote ESB & ROTJ, how Kersher & Marquand directed ESB & ROTJ, and how Kurtz played a much hands on role as producer of ANH & ESB then McCallum did with the SE & PT.

I think by Lucas making the PT & SE, he kinda exposed that he is not this god that was thought of by fans like me for all these years, and that is just the plain truth. Lucas deserves much credit for the OT in conception, the characters, and the overall story, but looking at how crappy the dialogue & acting was in the PT, you begin to wonder if Lucas had that much input in the OT, would ESB & ROTJ have been a good?

Post: #272554
Topic: What the fuck??? : George is definitely gone "bye bye"
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/272554/action/topic#272554
Time: 18-Feb-2007 12:04 PM

Originally posted by: TheCassidy

By no means am I a blind, accepting fanboy, but enough is enough.

Who the hell do you guys think thought up the stories in the first place?

Who created the characters? The ships? The planets? The tech?

George Lucas created the Millenium Fucking Falcon, and that's cool. He created TaunTauns. That's cool. He created Jabba. That's cool. Carbonite? Lucas. Pod Races (arguable the best part of EPI)? Lucas. The Clone Battle in EPII? Lucas.

It's not that I don't recognize the issues with Lucas or his filmmaking, but it's become so en vogue to bash him by saying "Well, he didn't do Empire or Jedi so he must suck." I call bullshit.

Yeah, Kersh and Marquand were great directors, and they helped forge amazing films, but their role was to interpret the scripts, block the scenes, coax the actors (who, let's face the facts, didn't win any Oscars for them) and compose the shots. They didn't make or break Star Wars. They were along for the ride. A ride that Lucas created - lock, stock, and smoking barrel.

It's the internet whining and Expanded Universe marketing that is killing Star Wars, not Lucas.

EDIT - @ Marvolo - where are the poop jokes and slapstick in Star Wars - sorry, EPIV: A New Hope?

Cassidy, I love the original SW more then any movie ever, including ESB, but ESB shows what a different director can do to a SW film. If you look at Lucas's work before SW, THX & American Graffitti, they are not these great dramas either, that is not Lucas's fortay.

SW/ANH is a perfect movie cause it doesn't try to delve too much into the characters, and it is a pure serial like Indiana Jones, where the characters are archetypes: A wizard, a farmer, a princess, and a scroundel. That is exactly why American Grafitti is a great movie, it isn't these great performances by Ron Howard and Richard Dreyfuss that drive the movie, it is the overall makeup of the movie and the chemistry of the actors that make it great, and that is what Lucas was great at.

ESB is a totally different movie then SW/ANH, and they are both classics because of that. The performances in ESB HAVE to be dead on or that movie doesn't work, because the drama is all from the characters adapting to the situation, where SW/ANH drama is from the story and the situation as the characters react to that.

For instance, just watch the whole Asteroid scene, Fisher/Ford really turn in great performances that make it believable that they are about to get pulverized. They are arguing, joking, and yelling at each other. Then go to the carbon freezing scene, and look at the drama from Fishers face as Han is shown in Carbonite the first time. THe best line in the movie is Han saying, "I know." That wasn't even written by Lucas, it was improvised by Kersher/Ford, and Lucas even thought at the premiere people would laugh, as it is stated in The Annotated Screenplays pg. 208.

Then look at the dramatic moments of SW/ANH, they are all visual, and that is what Lucas is great at: The binary sunset, Luke/Leia flying across the chasm on the deathstar, Luke blowing up the deathstar, they are 3 of my favorite moments and the reason I love the Original SW, but they have zero to do with acting, and more to do with the power of visuals accompanied by music.

Post: #271669
Topic: What the fuck??? : George is definitely gone "bye bye"
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/271669/action/topic#271669
Time: 13-Feb-2007 11:08 PM

Originally posted by: TheCassidy

But Jedi would never have worked without Empire, for that emotional pay off - and the same goes for Empire.

To be honest, back in 1980 it wasn't Empire that was great, it was waiting to see it that was so much fun...

I am not saying one doesn't complement the other, I am just saying that the only reason ROTJ & the PT are good films to a SW fan is because of the moments that tie the movies together, and nothing original in those movies makes you love them.

ESB doesn't have one moment in the movie that is recycled from ANH, it is totally original in its tone, story, character depth. The best moment of the movie 'I am your father!" contradicts everything that was stated in the original movie! ESB's great moments aren't all what has to do with the 'saga' in my view. The asteroid chase and the dialogue through that whole sequence is one of the best moments of the movie, yet it has zero to do with the overall story. The carbon freezing sequence is another great part of the movie, but if you look at the overall story now either 4-6 or 1-6, it doesn't have any 'tie in' moments that you waited to see.

ROTJ & the PT are loaded with them, and that is why SW fans are willing to accept mediocrity for more SW story, including myself when it comes to ROTJ. When Palpatine says to Anakin in TPM, "We'll wait to see how your career progresses...." only works in the context of the saga, and a true SW fan would appreciate that line. ESB has zero of that stuff, it has no little innuendos that only work when you watch the movies in order, and that is cause Lucas was still just trying to make a great movie at that point, and then once ROTJ came and the PT came out, it was more about the overall story and not the greatness of the movies. I am not saying what Lucas did was wrong to try to craft a story that works in segments with each episode, but it is very hard to watch all 6 in a row to really enjoy it, and that is why many here just can't sit down and watch TPM on a Saturday night like they can do with ANH, it just isn't as good a movie.

Post: #271647
Topic: What the fuck??? : George is definitely gone "bye bye"
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/271647/action/topic#271647
Time: 13-Feb-2007 10:34 PM

Originally posted by:JediRandy
ESB as a stand alone flick.... doesn't work. No beginning, middle or end... it's just the middle.
)

Not to get off topic, but I disagree. I agree it is not a standalone flick, and it has no beginning, no middle and no end, but the movie is so damn good, I can watch it without caring about the rest of the saga. That is what seperates ANH/ESB from the rest, they don't rely on moments that tie the saga together to make them great, they are just well made films that are great on their own.

ROTJ works great at the end cause of the Vader/Emperor/Luke confrontation, the Yoda death sequence, and the ObiWan/Luke talk, and the only reason is because you can enjoy it in the context of the story 4-6 or 1-6 that sort of ties everything together. The same with the PT movies, the best moments are the ones that tie with the OT, and the movies can't rely on their merits of just being a great movie to hold up. I constantly hear PT fans favorite moments of ObiWan/Anakin duel, the building of Vader, Luke/Leia being delivered to their respective planets, and that is solely cause it ties the story you saw from 4-6. I never hear someone say that the Jake Lloyd Tatoine parts are fascinating, because in retrospect they really aren't that compelling, other then they get your from point A to point B to the growth of Darth Vader.

ANH & ESB will always be movies I can pop in without the OT story or the Saga story in mind, and they deliver everytime because they are just great movies.

Post: #271643
Topic: What the fuck??? : George is definitely gone "bye bye"
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/271643/action/topic#271643
Time: 13-Feb-2007 10:20 PM

I think ol Georgie is joking, cause he wouldn't take a shot at any SW film unless he was joking, which means he knows exactly what he is saying.

Last year on The Stephen Colbert show, Colbert asked Lucas if he owned all the SW movies on DVD, and Lucas replied, "Yes I do......even TPM!" Which was a joke, but a calculated one. He knows TPM took a beating by critics and fans, and he knows Jar Jar is disdained by any fan over the age of 8, thats why his role is severely cut in AOTC & ROTS.

Lucas knows what is going on in SW-fandom, and thats why he put out the OOT last year. I always think why he didn't release the '97 versions on DVD to the public? CAUSE NOBODY WAS ASKING FOR THEM!!!

Lucas made this crack about ESB solely because it is the most beloved of the SW films. Although I still say The Original Star Wars is the best, with ESB at 1a.

Post: #271007
Topic: The OT on HBO HD this month, unfortunately it is the SE
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/271007/action/topic#271007
Time: 10-Feb-2007 12:35 AM

Originally posted by: Marvolo
I don't know how many of you all know this but in April of 2009 in America standard ( that being not digital ) cable is going to be stopped and switched over to digital and all broadcasts switched to widescreen format. Also most of the channels are going to upgrade from 480p to a higher resolution. This was announced last year. So after 2009 people will have to start buying HD widescreen televisions. Congress approved this so it is happening. And I have confirmed this with my local cable company. Eventually 1080p will be the standard.

Every year they keep delaying and delaying when everything on TV should become digital, and frankly I have given up on it. I remember reading back in 2001-02 about how EVERY channel should be in HD format by 2007, and the government was mandating it. Well, 2007 is here, and I have about 15 HD channels and thats it. All HD TV Programming is like a remastered OOT on DVD, still waiting...........

Post: #270432
Topic: Seeing the Saga in order - a review by a first-time viewer....
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/270432/action/topic#270432
Time: 7-Feb-2007 11:07 PM

Originally posted by: cap
I have seen 4-5-1-2-3-6 as a suggested order elsewhere. What do people here think about it?

If you are going to introduce the saga, I believe the best way is:

Episode IV
Episode V
Episode VI - stop the movie right after Luke/Obiwan talk on Dagobah about his father.
Episode I
Episode II
Episode III
Episode VI - continue the movie with Luke entering the rebel base to talk about destroying DSII

The reason I would stop right after the ObiWan/Luke talk in ROTJ, is the saga isn't about Vader yet, nor Palpatine, nor the jedi when you watch the OT first. The OT is about Luke, Leia, and Han and eases into the new plot point in ROTJ of Emperor/Vader/Luke battle.

By showing the viewer up to Luke/ObiWan in ROTJ, you keep them in the context of caring about the good guys, and I believe by showing ROTJ in 1-6 order, they won't give a hoot about saving Han in ROTJ, cause they will be so predisposed to the PT storyline that is mostly about Jedi vs Sith, and I will go even farther with 1-6, they probably won't give a shit about Han/Leia romance in ESB either!

By showing the PT after the Obiwan/Luke talk in ROTJ, it is almost like Obiwan is narrating the PT to Luke, as he appears in the first shot in TPM and the last shot in ROTS. Then the remainder of ROTJ keeps in context with the PT story of Jedi vs Sith, or Luke/Vader/Emperor while the overall macro storyline of the rebels vs empire comes to a close as DSII, Vader, and Emperor are all dead at the end of the movie. The End.

Post: #270399
Topic: Did Anakin's fall start with Qui-Gon?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/270399/action/topic#270399
Time: 7-Feb-2007 8:12 PM

Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape
Well, if that had been done right in the prequels, it would have worked perfectly. If you remember, most of Obi-Wan's advice and connection to Luke was based off of his mistakes as a young man. But, wait, I forgot, prequel Obi-Wan was perfect in every way and never made a mistake. But, yeah, if there had been a point in the prequels where Obi-Wan had given in to hate and came close to doing something evil, then it would have resonated well with that quote and been a contrast to Anakin, who was also confronted with choices and didn't resist.

Gaffer, the character of Obiwan was one of the few things I really liked about the PT. I have to say he is the one character I really cared about, and I give big props to Ewan McGregor, cause filling Alec Guiness shoes was a huge undertaking.

I never really thought of what Obiwan should been like before ANH, but I actually like that Lucas made him the ultimate good guy jedi, cause he more echos Luke when you watch the OT now. The one thing Lucas could have done was made Obiwan be an apologist for Anakin and all his bad traits. The council should have found out about Anakin/Padme relationship, and his constantly problems with obeying the Jedi order, and Obiwan should have stuck up for Anakin only cause he knew he was the chosen one. It would be just like every parent letting their kids get away with too much and then they turn out like brats, they are well intentioned, but just weren't tough enough.

Post: #270334
Topic: Did Anakin's fall start with Qui-Gon?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/270334/action/topic#270334
Time: 7-Feb-2007 3:26 PM

Originally posted by: Tiptup
Well, it had to do with the final turn. One minute he was happy, nice, and loving, the next minute he was murdering innocent children over an inconsequential dream sequence. Therefore, if a person's fall to the dark side of the force must involve their power to choose their own fate, as the OT implied (and even the PT implied at many points), Anakin must have been psychotic to have made the final choices that he made. If the dark side of the force doesn't involve choices on the other hand, then it operates in contradictory and arbitrary manner. If anyone can be great one minute and pure evil the next simply because the force can illogically force someone to be so, then there is little or no human drama left in the Star Wars universe.

The reason it comes off so jarring is Lucas changed the context of the movie after shooting the original turn scene. If you listen to the ROTS commentary by Lucas, he is suprisingly candid about how he reconfigured the movie after the original shoot, and how his original vision got changed.

His original turn scene had Anakin turning right when Palpatine reveals himself, but Lucas felt it came off with no emotion. The original turn scene as it was first shot was Anakin turning for more power, and not solely for Padme dying, although that was a factor. Palpatine offers him everything, including this trick, and Anakin takes the bait and turns solely for more power and a HUGE reason is because he feels the jedi are the bad guys. So if you watch the second half of ROTS, that part was shot in the context of Anakin turning on the Jedi not for Padme, so of course the first thing he does is go to the temple and kill the younglings. Then check out the dialogue on Mustafar with Anakin/Obiwan: Anakin says, "I always knew the jedi were evil!!!" Kenobi says, "The Chancellor evil Anakin!!!" Anakin replies, "From my point of the view, the jedi are evil!!!" Kenobi replies, "Well then you are lost!!!" Does this have anything to do with Padme and saving her? No, because this whole Mustafar dialogue sequence was shot in the original context.

So now Lucas decides to change the turn so Anakin has more of an emotional moment when he turns, so Lucas decides to make it solely for Padme, and changes his turn now to when Mace is going to kill Palpatine. He then shoots a new scene where Anakin tells Mace about Palpatine being the Sith. He then films Anakin/Padme staring at each other in Coruscant as Anakin is in the jedi chamber by himself. He then shoots Anakin leaving and now walking in on Mace as he has Palpatine cornered.

The problem is the rest of the damn movie is shot with the old context!!!! So all of us here are essentially watching two different movies, the first movie was shot from when Anakin storms the temple all the way to Mustafar with the context of him doing it for power and feeling the jedi are the badguys. Then everything up to the Turn scene in Palpatines office is SOLELY for Padme and finding this trick for dying.

Opening night, I thought it was weird and couldn't put my finger on why ROTS never made sense to me, even though I thought it was the best of the PT movies, but after listening to the commentary, it makes sense now why it doesn't make sense. Zombie has talked about this before, he can elaborate if I missed anything.

Post: #270218
Topic: Did Anakin's fall start with Qui-Gon?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/270218/action/topic#270218
Time: 6-Feb-2007 11:23 PM

Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape

But didn't we already have enough pointless cameos in the PT? The galaxy far, far away has been shrunk enough without adding in yet another OT character cameo into it.

Besides, I think we already knew from his original appearance that he was a bully, impulsive, and not too bright.

100% agree

Gaffer, I heard that Lucas is reinstating that scene in TPM SE, and this time Greedo punches first. Lucas reasoning, "I want the trilogies to echo each other, and this will work perfectly with ANH SE. "

Post: #270092
Topic: Star Wars Box Set in November 07 (with changes)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/270092/action/topic#270092
Time: 6-Feb-2007 1:35 PM

Originally posted by: SW

is it really fake ? i was so happy

Why would you be happy, there was zero mention of the OOT on it?

Post: #270081
Topic: Star Wars Box Set in November 07 (with changes)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/270081/action/topic#270081
Time: 6-Feb-2007 12:55 PM

I will still wait for the official announcement cause at this point all of these rumors have to be taken with a grain of salt. But if this is the official specs, then my decision is very easy: I'll pass.

Post: #269744
Topic: The OT on HBO HD this month, unfortunately it is the SE
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/269744/action/topic#269744
Time: 4-Feb-2007 8:12 PM

I guess I will play devils advocate with HD as compared to my CD collection of music. I bought a CD player back in 1989 and within 2 years had all my favorite bands albums, and I have been satisfied for almost 20 years now with that quality. Now I do believe that mini CDs? Correct me if I am wrong? are a better technology then CD's and sound better, but I have never even cared to upgrade or even sample because CD quality of the music I listen to is still satisfying to me today. I am not saying HD-DVD's aren't awesome looking, just for me personally, if Lucas could just put out a fully restored OOT DVD, it will be like CD's for me, good enough.

Post: #269721
Topic: The OT on HBO HD this month, unfortunately it is the SE
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/269721/action/topic#269721
Time: 4-Feb-2007 6:05 PM

Originally posted by: zombie84

Anyway, in short, HD is not a jarring leap, but it is a leap. Many people didn't think DVD was all that great--"whats wrong with VHS?" was the main argument against upgrading. Well, nothing really, i mean we watched VHS for years and years and were fine. Its only when you watch DVD and then go back to VHS that you really notice the difference. Thats kind of how i feel with HD--at first you sort of think "its better but not the hyped up leap it is known as," and then you take a look at the same scene in DVD and you think "jeez, is DVD really this soft and fuzzy?"

I do agree with you Zombie, it is a leap, but I think many people who purchased DVDs over the last 10 years will not even buy an HD Player, and even if they do, I can only see them buying the movies like SW, LOTR, and The Matrix for that matter.

I see HD-DVD going the route of Laserdisk, a niche market of people who see the difference, and want every possible resolution they can when watching a movie. I am amazed at HD quality, but for some reason, I am just not interested in buying a player, despite they can't settle on one format. I have hundreds of DVD's too, and I just can't see myself running out and rebuying 'A Few Good Men' or 'Platoon' or even 'The Godfather' cause those are some of my favorite movies. Maybe if the OOT came out in BluRay in 2010, that would get me to buy an HD player, but with DVD, it was the DVD player that made me run out in 1998, not the selection of movies they had back then, cause it was a very thin lineup for many years before DVD exploded in 2000-01. I guess thats why I am so hoping the OOT comes on DVD this year fully remastered, cause I know that would satisfy me forever, and I would then be in the position if the OOT came out on BlueRay, I would think of buying it, but won't pull my hair out that I have to have it like I do now. I am telling you if Lucas could just put the OOT out this year fully remastered, I would forgive the guy for all he did since 1997, though I would never forget.

Post: #269715
Topic: The OT on HBO HD this month, unfortunately it is the SE
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/269715/action/topic#269715
Time: 4-Feb-2007 5:33 PM

Zombie, I watched the ANH HD version on HBO today, and then popped in the 2004 ANH DVD, and you may have a better eye then me, so tell me if I am wrong, it wasn't THAT much better. I think HD is great, and 1080i is better then 720i, so I am not disputing HD is better, but if the OOT came out fully restored on DVD this year and looked exactly like the 2004 versions without all the SE crap, I would be satsfied forever. I know HD is the wave of the future, and I have an HDTV, so I see all the great programming it has, but I am just not that psyched of HD-DVD the way I was when DVD came out in 1997, cause DVD was such a leap from VHS and Laserdisk, it was so obvious the resolution difference when something was restored 16 x 9. HD-DVD will be better of course, but I am not itching for all my movies to be released like I was when DVD took off in the late 90's. What do you think?

Post: #269660
Topic: The OT on HBO HD this month, unfortunately it is the SE
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/269660/action/topic#269660
Time: 4-Feb-2007 11:31 AM

ESB was on yesterday and SW was on this morning on HBO High Definition, and they looked really great, and resemble nothing of a 25+ year old movie.

It is just so frustrating as a fan who grew up with the OOT, to see the SE in High Definition on HBO, the SE in great quality on DVD, and the OOT is stuck in 1993 laserdisk land. For me, it is still the SE that piss me off, not the PT, and I honestly believe if Lucas would have never changed the OT movies, I would probably accepted the PT movies as part of the saga, but just the inferior part the way I accepted ROTJ for many years. But now I see SW on HBO HD and see how great it looks and then I have to watch Greedo shoot first, CG Jabba get his tail stepped on, and I turn it off. If the OOT is not remastered in this rumored 30th Anniversary set this year, there won't be anything on the horizons DVD or HD-DVD for many years with SW on it, I will walk away from SW fandom, because I am just getting too fucking annoyed watching inferior versions of my favorite movie of all-time, while I know there is a great transfer sitting out there in the SE. Sorry, but I love great quality when I watch a movie.