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25-Jul-2005
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22-Apr-2019
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Post
#282523
Topic
How can I combine the '04 ROTJ with the OOT ROTJ ending?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/282523/action/topic#282523
Time
I bought the September 12th OOT/SE DVD's last year, and I was wondering if this was possible: I could copy the the whole '04 ROTJ DVD version up to the ending on Endor, and then copy the OOT ending on Endor so it could all be on one disk as I could watch it seamlessly. After Luke burns Vader in the bonfire, there is a pause and the screen goes black, that would be the perfect moment to insert the OOT ending with the old celebration, the old music, and of course Seb. Shaw instead of Hayden. The reason I still want to watch the '04 version is cause the quality on my HDTV is stunning, and the only change in ROTJ that bothers me is the new ending. Can it be done?
Post
#282449
Topic
Would you still watch SW without John William's brilliant score?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/282449/action/topic#282449
Time
I understand your question, and it is legit, but scores are a big part of movies, so it is tough to rule them out and wonder what they would be like.

Would I watch the Godfather without that great score?

Would I watch Hoosiers without that great score?

Would I watch Jaws without that great score?

Would I watch Raiders of the Lost Ark without that great score?

Same goes for SW.
Post
#282345
Topic
Anyone else totally disregard Leia being Luke's sister?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/282345/action/topic#282345
Time
Zombie, I still will say that alot of OT fans went with the changes from 77-83, cause all of my friends saw SW in '77, and we all knew by '83 that Luke/Leia/Vader family affair was changed, but the movies were so good, you kinda went with the story. And I think that is what alot of people miss, if the quality is good, I am willing to change my views towards the movies.

I loved ESB, but the Vader/Luke angle came out of nowhere, and the series seemed to get away from the macro aspect of ANH, to a more personal story in ESB with Luke/Vader, and that finally all came to head in 1983. I will be honest, I am one of the few who don't love Vader/Luke revelation, as I think it created just as many fans as it turned off, but ESB is damn good of a movie, I accepted the story. For me personaly, ESB is the only sequel besides Godfather II that is just as good as the original, and that to me is a real achievement to have movie magic in 2 movies from the same series.

I think SW will always live on with kids as we get older, cause I see my nephews and their friends enjoy the movies now, but the difference is when they get older they are going to discover the quality issues we discovered too. It is very easy for a kid to fall in love with a lightsaber or the millenium falcon, hell I did it back in 1977, but it is another thing for those same fans to still love those movies 10-15 years later, and that is where the PT/Saga fans will become a true niche fanbase, once the PT generation grows up.

I always use ROTJ as my analogy to the PT kids who love the movies now. I loved ROTJ as a kid in 1983, I thought it was better then ESB, but once I hit highschool and plopped in the trilogy on VHS around 1990-91, all of the sudden as an adult you understand what are the better movies, and ROTJ was just OK only cause it was SW. Now think of the PT, and times that by 3 movies, do you think kids in their 20's aren't going to notice Jake Lloyd & Jar Jar in TPM? The AOTC romance with Padme/Anakin? The ridiculous events that eventually lead to Anakin turning in ROTS? This is all stuff they will notice as they get older, just as I noticed as I got older that the Ewoks are kiddy, Jabbas Palace goes on too long, and the kiddification of SW actually began in 1983.

Trust me guys, quality always rules out in the end.
Post
#281773
Topic
The Force Among Us
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/281773/action/topic#281773
Time
This will be interesting to see, but those fans who dress up always scare me and wonder why they would do that as an adult? I love SW more then anyone, but there is line that makes me feel real creepy especially when some of these fans have those SW themed weddings! Because of fans like that, I have to keep my love for SW to myself sometimes, cause when you tell someone you are a diehard fan the first thing they ask, "You don't dress for the movies, do you?"
Post
#281690
Topic
Star Wars Fans Are Cool Regardless Of Age...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/281690/action/topic#281690
Time
I think we need to distinguish a hatred for George Lucas personally and being disgusted for what he has done to the OOT, cause those are two different complaints.

I for one like George Lucas as an individual, he is one of the few family men in Hollywood, and when you see him around his kids, you can see the guy is a great father. I think Lucas is actually pretty humble when he does interviews for the success he has, and always find them very compelling. Do I hate George Lucas, NO WAY!!!! The man created fucking Star Wars! Am I disgusted with George Lucas over the PT? NO way, the PT is what it is and for anyone to be mad at George cause they think the PT sucks, get over it, I will criticize it , but I will not take it personally.

Am I disgusted with Lucas over the treatment of the OOT? YES!!!!! I bought a DVD player in 1998 solely for the OOT movies, and have waited, and waited, and waited 9 years and all I have is a slightly better laserdisk version of the greatest trilogy of all-time! If Lucas released the OOT fully remastered, he wouldn't hear from me ever again, cause DVD will last forever, just like CD's, in which I have had for 20 years and could care less if anything better comes out.

Do I take it too seriously, in terms of when I log on, yes, in terms of the bigger problems in the world, of course not. I think men dying over in Iraq are more serious then some damn OOT DVD's I want, but when all of us log onto this webpage, we have to put it in context, it is a big deal til you log off.
Post
#281614
Topic
Star Wars Fans Are Cool Regardless Of Age...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/281614/action/topic#281614
Time
I will say something about growing up in the late 70's/early 80's, movies were much more upbeat and there were always characters to root for to in the fantasy/scifi/action genre. Think of movies like Star Wars, Superman, Raiders of the Lost Ark, E.T., and Back to the Future, all had the ultimate 'good guy' characters to root for, and the stories were still written for adults which children could enjoy, but they didn't send out this political message or blur the lines between good and evil, those movies were black and white, and the lines were drawn from the first minute of the film. With films like The Matrix, and the PT, and other movies today from that genre, I think times have changed, and it aint about nostalgia for me, but I am so glad I grew up during the OT days, cause those movies are better.
Post
#281595
Topic
Star Wars Fans Are Cool Regardless Of Age...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/281595/action/topic#281595
Time
Originally posted by: TheCassidy


And there was an internet back in those days. It was called the school yard. And you know what? I never met anyone that had the disdain and hatred for anything they didn't like, as you see here and now in our midst.
?


This is true, but that is my point, the internet is different, and sadly worse in some ways. When you post on the internet, nobody knows who you are, so you can say anything you want that may be out of character that you would normally say face to face. On the playground, I only talked to SW fans, and there were no trolls that would chime in every once in a while with 'ROTJ ruined the movies!"

The internet is what it is, and I take it with a grain of salt. I like it cause it has advanced the OOT to atleast get released, that without the internet, I don't know if it would have been possible. Without the internet, there would be no Superman II: Donnor Cut either. But on the flip side, you are going to get childish debates, trolls, and foolish complaints about the same things over and over, and what I do is just tune them out.

Cassidy I was 4 when I saw SW in 1977 too, so I hear ya about the different generation of fans and a different outlook then we had, but I still say the more OOT fans that are willing to not give into the SE, the better chance the OOT will be around in 10 years.

Post
#281590
Topic
Star Wars Fans Are Cool Regardless Of Age...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/281590/action/topic#281590
Time
Cassidy, SW fandom has always been divided, there just wasn't any internet back in '83. If there were an internet back in '83, ROTJ would have gotten ripped to shreds. Ewoks? Darth Vaders a pussy? Luke/Leia are siblings? Kenobi POV?

I know so many people who are just SW'77 fans and that is it, but other then Anchorhead, I have yet to meet one on the internet, cause they just love the first film and don't really care about anything that happened after 1977. Then you have a huge amount of SW/ESB fans who think they are the only great ones of the OT, let alone the series. Those fans can't understand how anyone can watch an inferior movie like ROTJ or the PT more than once? Then you have the OOT fans like myself, who sorta agree with the SW/ESB fans in quality, yet i am anal enough that ROTJ will always be apart of my saga cause I love the characters. Then you have the SE/PT or saga fans, who just love anything with SW, and really don't look at quality, they just enjoy it all.

Trust me Cassidy, if there were an internet back in 1980, there would be a large section of fans saying, "Darth Vader is Lukes dad, WTF? Lucas is ruining SW!" Just as they would have said in 1983, "Luke/Leia are sibling now, WTF? Lucas is ruining SW!" Just as they said in 1999, "Midiclorians? Jar Jar? Darth Vader built C3PO? WTF? Lucas is ruining SW!" And in 2005, "The PT sucked, Padme losing the will to live, Darth Vader turned for that reason of a dream? WTF? Lucas is ruining SW!"

Lucas has been changing around the story of SW since 1978 as Zombie has shown, it is up to all of us to choose when we feel he ruined it, and just watch the movies we love. But until the OOT comes out on DVD in great quality, there is gonna be bitchin on this forum.
Post
#281474
Topic
Star Wars Fans Are Cool Regardless Of Age...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/281474/action/topic#281474
Time
Originally posted by: TheCassidy
I'm tired of this "Lucas did this to me" crap.

People need to start taking responsibility for their actions and emotions. If you've become disillusioned with a movie franchise you did it to yourself. No one made you feel that way but you.

It's easy to sit on the internet and be cynical little whiners all day. Do something with your life. God, it's only a movie.


Cassidy, why worry so much wha other people think and say, cause it's only a movie.
Post
#281198
Topic
should I get the GOUT?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/281198/action/topic#281198
Time
Originally posted by: MeBeJedi


It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'm just amazed and annoyed at how Lucas completely ignored this opportunity, and tried to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. I'm also not impressed with the screwed-up audio. Both DVDs are an embarrasment, and the surprising lack of sales has finally made LFL take notice. Had I and many others ignored principle and bought them, Lucas never would have noticed. Wouldn't surpise me if the 30 year box was stopped because someone finally talked sense to Lucas.



I agree the whole way Lucas has handled the DVD releases, even dating back to April 2000, and only releasing TPM on VHS at first left me ??????????????? I used to get mad at Lucas, and grinded my teeth at how out of touch the man is with the fanbase, but I finally told myself to put my personal bias aside and just enjoy SW on my own terms.

Now I am still not saying everyone should buy this set, cause if you own an HDTV, it is even more noticeable on how bad the transfers are. But if you are on the fence, and just want to watch SW, ESB, and ROTJ without all the new additions in better quality then what you have, I say buy it.

The numbers are already in on this release, and whether it sells a couple of more copies 7 months after the release will not determine what Lucas does in the future. I mean the 2004 DVD were the #1 seller that year, so why should Lucas think that anyone would want to the OOT on DVD by those numbers? But he still did, albeit inferior quality, so the suits up at Lucasfilm know what the fans want, it is whether they are smart enough to put something out that people like.
Post
#281178
Topic
should I get the GOUT?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/281178/action/topic#281178
Time
IMO, anyone who doesn't want to buy it on principle, why cheat yourself out of more enjoyment? If someone thinks they are crap and can't stand the quality, I can't argue with that, but if anyone is on the fence, and does feel you will get a better product then what you already have now, I still say buy it.

The one thing I never do in SW-ville is worry what George Lucas thinks of us. When I bought the OOT DVD last September, I didn't think, "George is laughing all the way to the bank on this one!" I bought it cause I only had crappy bootlegs that always froze up, and atleast these were a slight better quality, and I knew I could watch my favorite movies straight through for 2 hours. It is like buying a car, you walk out of the dealership and whether you got a fair deal or not, you always feel like they didn't give you the best deal, but you still have to drive to work each day.

Don't let George Lucas sway your decision, if it will bring you the slightest more enjoyment then what you have now, buy it, if you don't think it will, then pass.
Post
#281083
Topic
Anyone else totally disregard Leia being Luke's sister?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/281083/action/topic#281083
Time
Originally posted by: zombie84


Say what you want about the Ewoks in ROTJ, but atleast you get an hour of development of their terrain. You see their tribe, you see how they live, that is called character development! The Ewoks are key to the victory for the rebels, so they serve a purpose in the movie, the only problem with them is that they are too kiddy!

I don't think its merchandising. Once again, its the story changing. Boba was always a key figure in the clone wars, revealed way back in 1979, and Fett was confirmed by Lucas as appearing in ROTS--so his AOTC-heavy role would have paid off. He almost assuredly would have played a role in the Jedi purge. But Lucas changed his plot outline in august of 2002, as i mentioned, and Fett was written out because Lucas didn't have room to include him.

As for Kashyyk, that could indeed come down to fan appeasement, although the notion of a wookie battle was something that existed in the first draft of Star Wars in 1974, so Lucas had genuinely been wanted to show it for three decades.


I agree with you on both points, but even Lucas admitted on the ROTJ Commentary that he did not realize Boba Fett would become that popular back in the early 80's or he would have gave him a cooler death in ROTJ! I remember hearing that thinking??????? That statement tells me that Lucas was fully aware of the popularity of Boba Fett by the fans, and I think he believed they would love to see Boba Fett and that Wookie Battle we all wanted to see in the OT, and just shoehorned them in the PT, thus coming off halfass.

Post
#281074
Topic
Anyone else totally disregard Leia being Luke's sister?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/281074/action/topic#281074
Time
That is where I give credit to Lucas for atleast staying consistent throughout the OT in the overall characters and their arc. With the exception of Yoda, most characters appear for a reason, and stay true to the story til its end. In the PT, you have this supposed backstory of Boba Fett in AOTC, and it shows him see his father die right in front of his face and then you don't see him til ESB, what was the point? MERCHANDISING!!!!! Chewbacca & Kashykk is another example of a character and terrain used for 10 minutes for eye candy and appeasment to the OT fans, and then poof, its gone!

Say what you want about the Ewoks in ROTJ, but atleast you get an hour of development of their terrain. You see their tribe, you see how they live, that is called character development! The Ewoks are key to the victory for the rebels, so they serve a purpose in the movie, the only problem with them is that they are too kiddy!
Post
#281070
Topic
Anyone else totally disregard Leia being Luke's sister?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/281070/action/topic#281070
Time
If you look at the OOT, not the saga, but just the 4-6 movies before the changes, I still think Lucas made a pretty compelling story that has a begining and an end. Now in saying this, I will not defend George on changing things as he goes in each movie, but the ironic things is that the OOT works better then the supposed planned PT in it storytelling. Atleast the OOT stays consistent with introduction of characters: You have Jabba & The Emperor mention in SW, and then they appear finally appear in flesh in ROTJ, plus the Emperor is shown in a hologram in ESB. The PT you have these characters pop in out of nowhere. Where was General Grevious in TPM & AOTC? Where was Count Dooku in TPM? It is bad storytelling to have a new sith in AOTC who was once a jedi not even be on the council or even mentioned in the previous movie! You have C3PO & R2D2 with nothing to do in the PT other then they were popular in the OT, as atleast in the OT they were always doing something relevant to the plot to help the rebels. And for Jar Jar Binks, and as bad a character he is, to be dominant in one movie, and then be MIA for the next two movies tells me Lucas was just sticking his finger in the wind.

For whatever anyone thinks of ROTJ, I give Lucas credit for crafting a non-typical story ending with Vader. Lucas could have easily played the 'revenge' card that pervades so many movies, but if you watch ROTJ again, can you name a movie that the protagonist and antagonist meet face to face and don't have a fight, and just talk? Your typical movie would be Luke kill Vader and then finally kill The Emperor with the help of Han/Leia at the end, and everyone lives happily ever after. Lucas I believe tried to make a different story then your usual one in terms of how ROTJ plays out, and sure he may have miscalculated with Leia and Luke as siblings, but overall I always felt the story of the OOT as a trilogy worked real well.
Post
#281039
Topic
Anyone else totally disregard Leia being Luke's sister?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/281039/action/topic#281039
Time
Originally posted by: C3PX

Anybody see that part on the ROTS DVD where Rick McCullum admits that they had to go back and refilm the scene with Obi-Wan picking up Anakin's lightsabre because "we kind of forgot he gave it to Luke in the next film." How do you kind of forget something like that? It show exactly how much Lucas had invested in these things while writing them. Pretty clear he really didn't care too much. I bet Lucas didn't even bother to go back and watch the OT before writing the PT. He should have been refering to the final scripts of each of the OT constantly as he wrote the PT.



Or do you remember when Lucas said he was at the premiere of ROTS and the crowd started cheering when Tantive IV came on screen for the first time, and Lucas could not understand why everyone was going crazy. Lucas said that whoever he was with said to him, "George that is the first ship you see in the Original SW, it is an iconic shot, that is why everyone is cheering!" Did George even watch the OT before he wrote the PT movies?
Post
#280919
Topic
Anyone else totally disregard Leia being Luke's sister?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/280919/action/topic#280919
Time
Originally posted by: Anchorhead


Sorry, I was hoping I wouldn't come across that way. I'm not shooting holes in anyone's theory at all, at least not intentionally. I was just mentioning that there are plenty of times where there just isn't enough story to actually rationalize a plot element. Lucas didn't rationalize it, so there's really no way we can. His stories weren't well thought out, so they have areas where they just don't make any sense. Nor are they ever. They aren't some sort of elaborate puzzle we can solve. They're just poorly written films. There's no big secret - no big reveal - no apocalypse.
.



No offense taken man, I was just saying that you guys have exposed the plot holes, and it is really hard to argue those points against them.

The reason I will always be an OOT fan & SW'77 fan is the fact that ESB is nothing like SW is a true testament. I was never crazy about Vader being Lukes dad, nor Luke/Leia being siblings, but ESB is such a damn good movie to go with SW'77, I just kinda went with the story, even though I wasn't totally happy with the ultimate redemption angle. The bottom line is no matter what Lucas changed storywise for the OOT, you can still follow Han, Luke, and Leia around for 3 movies and root for the good guys, and just kinda take all the mythology stuff, some good some bad, with a grain of salt. I can't say that about the PT, cause there isn't one character I care about for those 3 movies, and in that sense they have no sense of drama.
Post
#280918
Topic
should I get the GOUT?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/280918/action/topic#280918
Time
Originally posted by: generalfrevious
Hey, I was wondering guys, that although the official release of the OOT is non-anamorphic, I am quite emo when it comes to preserving the OOT and, as many of you know from my posts, doubt the OOT ever being released ever again. So should I avoid this DVD and give up on SW forever, or should I do otherwise?


If you have a 4 x 3 TV, then I would definitely buy it if I were you. If you have a 16 x 9 TV, then it depends on how much you are stickler for quality. If you want a great quality presentation on your HD Widescreen TV, avoid this at all costs, if you don't mind a grainy, soft, sometimes blurry image to enjoy the OOT, then I would buy it.
Post
#280898
Topic
Anyone else totally disregard Leia being Luke's sister?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/280898/action/topic#280898
Time
Originally posted by: Anchorhead


I think you guys are giving Lucas way too much credit for writing a thorough story. It doesn't appear as though he thought things through at that level. He just came up with stuff and worried (or not) about continuity later.

Look at how ”no, there is another” was handled. He wrote and filmed that scene before he had any idea at all who the other actually was. He was letting a finished film be released to the theaters with a cliff hanger scene used to set up the next movie - as well as a possible second trilogy - and yet he had no idea about who was being referenced - in his own story. It’s one thing to hash out ideas in a story or script - and I’m sure it’s routine in the business - but he actually filmed a very open-ended plot hole. A plot hole he never resolved properly.

Man, that's sloppy.


I agree, and when I am rationalizing, I am pulling at straws! This is what happens when you write these trilogies one movie at a time, there are things that just don't work out if you inspect them with a fine tooth comb. LOTR is a perfect example of a movie trilogy that flows fluidly because it was planned that way from the books to the big screen, as they honestly feel like one big movie instead of 3 individual movies like the OT. I still love the OOT very much, so even though you guys are shooting holes in my theories, I still love it enough to overlook it.

Post
#280884
Topic
Anyone else totally disregard Leia being Luke's sister?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/280884/action/topic#280884
Time
Originally posted by: BeeJay


The line from ROTJ "Somehow I've always known" is what makes the context weirder. Leia had a subconscious notion that Luke was her sibling, maybe even a conscious suspicion from the very start... and in ESB she kisses Luke full on the mouth. All that aside though I've never had a real problem with the scene.


Good one, as I did forget about that line. The only thing I can rationalize that is by Leia finally getting confirmation from Luke that she was a force user, all that stuff that she had 'thought' about for years was true, cause remember she does sense Luke at the end of ESB on Cloud City, and tells Lando to go back, yet she doesn't think anything about being a force user then.
Post
#280784
Topic
My first step into a larger world.... Splinter Of The Mind's Eye
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/280784/action/topic#280784
Time
Some EU stuff if pretty good, and some is real crap, but I suggest reading "Shadows of the Empire" cause that deals with events between ESB & ROTJ. The reason there is no resentment from fans like me towards the EU the same way I have towards the PT is that Lucas never changed the OT to fit those stories, so you can take em or leave em.
Post
#280555
Topic
Anyone else totally disregard Leia being Luke's sister?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/280555/action/topic#280555
Time
Originally posted by: Anchorhead


By the way, I should take this time to thank you guys for not hammering on me for my film preference. As a Star Wars only fan, I'm in the minority, by far, and I've been taken to task for it plenty of times.


You are the majority, cause everyone I know, including family members, love The Original SW, yet only a handful of my friends are OOT fans. The OOT fans are just a very dedicated fanbase, but there is a reason the Original SW is the highest grossing film of the 6, adjusted and unadjusted for inflation.

Post
#280429
Topic
Anyone else totally disregard Leia being Luke's sister?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/280429/action/topic#280429
Time
Anchorhead, I always love a SW'77 fan, so don't think you are any less of a fan then we are or the saga nazi's at TFN.

I am one of the rare SW'77 and OOT fans, and here is how I have enjoyed the movies for 30 years. Because I saw each movie in the theater in its original release, I never was duped by Lucas that the story was written all out in 1975, so I watch each movie in context of how it was made, but I still enjoy the next installment with changes.

For instance, my favorite movie of all-time is SW'77, so I always watch that as just a standalone space adventure that has a true ending, and I get goosebumps EVERYtime I watch the medal ceremony as Chewy gets the last howl in.

Now I do love ESB, cause it is a great movie, and I watch that one in the context of a more deeper story then SW, where Vader IS Lukes father, and everything isn't happy go lucky like the first SW movie. I get a different set of goosebumps when I watch the ending with Luke/Leia watching Lando/Chewy pull away to save Han, you feel empathy for the characters and share in their struggle.

Now I do like ROTJ with warts and all, and sure Lucas tied everything up to end it all, but I do go with the story, and watch this one in the context that Luke/Leia are siblings, Han/Leia are a couple, and Vader saves the day at the end, but he is still not the MAIN person of the trilogy!

The problem with the PT movies, and why I have trouble adapting my OOT watching style, is you are watching everything BEFORE all the changes, so you can't take the story for what it is as a new installment, these ones lead to the OT, so you have to be on par with Lucas's changes, and thats where I get lost. I can't get over that Padme dies of the will to live, because in ROTJ, Leia says she remembers her mom dying very young?

I hope this makes sense to you guys, but I still say don't let the changes to the OOT affect you from enjoying that trilogy, cause even though SW'77 is my favorite movie of all-time, the OOT is my favorite trilogy of all-time. Yes, ROTJ could have been better, but come on now, it could have worse, it could have been Prequels quality!