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25-Jul-2005
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22-Apr-2019
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Post
#301616
Topic
A New Thought on George
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/301616/action/topic#301616
Time
I think we way overanalyze the faults of the PT sometimes, and it is real simple: Lucas was past his prime when he filmed the PT, and like many directors, his best work was done in his 20's/30's as a struggling director before he had kids and becomes financial successful. Now sure there exceptions like Spielberg, but there are exceptions to every rule.

When was the last time Brian Depalma made a great movie? Did anyone see Eyes Wide Shut by Kubrick before he died in 1999? Has Coppola done anything near the quality of his 1970's work with Godfather I & II, The Conversation, Apocalypse Now? These guys did their best work when they were hungry, and their careers were on the line: Spielberg with Jaws, Coppola with Godfather, Lucas with Star Wars.

I think a director gets soft through the years, and loses that edge, and in this genre of fantasy, is out of touch with what is cool to the public. You have to remember Lucas was in his late 20's when he made the OT, and invented the lightsaber, the millenium falcon, Darth Vader, Han Solo, Carbonite, AT-AT's, The Emperor, these are all cool things that appeal to the geeks in this genre. What is cool in the PT other then maybe Darth Maul?

I do agree that if Lucas would have hired writer A, and had more collaboration, etc, the PT would have been better, but the heart of soul of the OT came from Lucas, and I just think a 50 year old guy writing about a teenage kid who turns the darkside is a recipe for disaster, compared to a 25 year old guy writing about this huge war going on in space between good vs evil.
Post
#301580
Topic
so I finally acquired the '95 boxset
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/301580/action/topic#301580
Time
Originally posted by: generalfrevious
you call the OOT being designated as "special features" as an official release?

Sorry guys, you are treating a category 5 hurricane as a mere drizzle


I think we all agree it is a crappy release, I think that the fact that Lucas put it out and went against his word, gives us hope.

You have to remember that the average person with a 27" Standard TV won't notice a difference in quality between anamophic and non-anamorphic, and that is still the majority of people who are in the market. Of course there will always be diehards like us who notice any ounce of good or bad quality in a DVD release, but we are still a huge minority.

My nephews have grown up on the SE and were born after 1997, so they didn't even know what the OOT was? I bought them the OOT movies and showed them the ending of ROTJ with that old guy Anakin there in the ghost scene, and they were amazed! They don't have a VCR in the house, and those kids have grown up on a steady diet of DVD's, so if this release never came out, there would be one less set of kids who would always think that Greedo shot first.

I have never defended this release, nor I refuse to ever pop that thing in my 52" Widescreen TV, but if there is one fan out there who now knows that there is 2 versions of the OT, I still say it is better then no OOT on DVD.

Post
#301542
Topic
so I finally acquired the '95 boxset
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/301542/action/topic#301542
Time
I think everyone has to see how the whole HD-DVD/BluRay war plays out before even thinking about the OOT, or let alone any SW movie version in that format. I was in BestBuy this weekend, and I wanted to get into the HD market for movies, but I saw 2 competing formats sitting there and no clear winner right now, and I took a pass until there is a clear winner. I am just not going to shell out $400.00-$500.00 per player just to watch a slim list of older 'A' titles that are available on both formats.

I guess I am trying to say that because so many people like me are holding out, the format war may go on a while, maybe past Christmas '08 into 2009, and once the dust finally settles and we have a winner, then you will finally see the 'A' titles like The Godfather start being released. And once the format is in full swing, Lucas will finally put out the saga boxset with hopefully the OOT remastered, Deleted Scenes, etc, but that may not be til 2010-2011? I think it is a more of a waiting game right now for any hopes of the OOT, unless Lucas tries to milk the Standard DVD market one more time, before HD takes over. You never know.
Post
#301217
Topic
The Beginning: Making 'Episode I': A comedy masterpiece
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/301217/action/topic#301217
Time
Originally posted by: GoldStone9


Does anyone ever fall to sleep when watching AOTC?
.


I went to all 3 PT movies with 2 friends of mine I grew up with, and sadly one of them fell asleep during the AOTC, and that is when I started to question, "What the hell is going on with these movies?" The next day in work I asked a co-worker what he thought of AOTC, "UHHHH, that was the most boring SW film I have ever seen!" I also remember people were laughing during the fireplace scene in the theater, and of course that is not suppose to be a comedic moment in the movie as Anakin & Padme share their true feelings in probably one of the most awkward scenes of the 6.

AOTC was the real turning point in the SW fandom when a good bit of OT fans kinda gave up, cause I just never saw that emotion of waiting for ROTS during 2005 the same way I did with most of my friends with TPM & AOTC. I think people got burned twice, and the battlelines were drawn at the point of bashers/gushers.

Post
#301112
Topic
The Beginning: Making 'Episode I': A comedy masterpiece
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/301112/action/topic#301112
Time
Originally posted by: crazyrabbitsbr> Most people were set out to hate Terminator 3 when it was announced Cameron wasn't directing, and the movie was actually quite watchable, but it will always be the black sheep of that series. .


I never bought into the theory the fans were ready to hate the film. Everyone I know saw T3 opening weekend, as it did have an initial great first weekend, but the movie pretty much sucked. The reason it sucked is that Mostow payed no attention to character development the same way Cameron does on his Terminator movies , and it didn't have anything interest until the last 10 minutes when the movie teases you with a supposed sequel in the ending that fans are still waiting for! The T3 ending is like ESB and then finding out Lucas was not going to make any more SW movies in 1980!

T3 is a typical summer blockbuster movie, as it is entertaining for a rental one night, with good action scenes, but not much substance, and in many ways contradicts the last 2 Terminator films, because the whole moral of the first 2 Terminator films is that you can make your fate and the future isn't set yet, but after T3, World War III was happening whether you like it or not. I saw T3 once in the theater, I rented it again that fall, and never have cared to watch it again.

Post
#301104
Topic
Why Anakin should have been 20 years old in TPM.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/301104/action/topic#301104
Time
The biggest missed opportunity to lock in every fan of the PT, IMO, was not making Anakin a 20 year old golden boy in TPM, instead Lucas chose the route of a 10 year old kid and a whiny 20 year old in AOTC.

Putting aside who found him, ObiWan or QuiGon, lets just stick with the same basic premise of TPM, but Anakin is 20 years old, and he is sensed by the Jedi as this powerful young man with the force and by the prophecy, he is the chosen one.

By having Anakin at 20 years old, he can do anything physically in the movie that a 10 year old boy can't. Then you make him LIKEABLE!!! He is a good kid who hasn't tasted success yet, so his flaws are not prevailent until he realizes his abilty with the force, as he is just this raw talent. He then saves Naboo by blowing up the Trade Federation Ship, same as TPM ending, but this time it is more realistic as he doesn't get lucky, and isn't saying stupid stuff like, "Now this is podracing!"

Flash Forward to the end of the movie, and the usual musical montage: Remember Luke, Han, and Chewy walk down to cheers in ANH, as it is more of a 'team' win for the rebels. Anakin walks down the parade in Naboo by himself to a standing ovation, and he loves the jubliation, this is his moment of glory, and as the audience gravitates to this 20 year old likebale kid without any flaws. The camera pans away as he smiles and utterly enjoys the cheers from the crowd, for the rest of the PT, everytime you see him begin turning to the darkside, you can think back to the TPM ending, and wonder, "This guy had it all, and blew it."
Post
#300984
Topic
How did you envision the prequels?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/300984/action/topic#300984
Time
Originally posted by: Major fatal Moebius
Well, I don't know about you guys, but over the years, now being a little older, wiser, I've learned to appreciate the prequel trilogy a whole lot more than I used to. There's just too much greatness in it to blatantly ignore or scoff at. The OT and PT are two totally different creations (yet, with similar themes and interesting philosophical ideas), accept that and you'll find there's plenty of great stuff to be found in the prequels.

That said, while I'm very fond of The phantom menace and Revenge of the sith now I still can't totally get into Attack of the clones.



See I will never appreciate the PT, mainly because it is designed to tie in with the OT, and that forces the viewer to see them as 'one' story. You can't see it 1-6 as one story, when you have essentially two different trilogies, one filmed in the late 70's/80's and the other at the turn of the century. They are too different in terms of CGI to models, CG landscapes filmed in front of bluescreen to real landscapes, and Lucas himself changed over 20 years as he is just a different director, as most from his profession when they get older.

What Lucas should have done is left the OT untouched, and kept that as the OT story, and make the PT a true backstory, not a hamfisted continuous story that is supposed to be shoehorned 'now the beginning' to all the fans, like we watched a half finished story all these years!!!

The PT could have been filled with 21st century CG, 21st Century CG Landscapes, etc, and the viewer could essentially watch that story on its own, but still not screwing with the OT story. The PT shouldn't have been the beginning of the 'Tragedy of Anakin Skywalker', it should have just been a 3 movie trilogy about Anakin, Kenobi, and Padme, and The Emperor the same way the OT was the story about Luke, Leia, and Han, and Darth Vader.

Anakins turn should have been a plot point, not THE main point of the PT, as that would give more time for the Clone Wars, the birth of the Rebellion, the Force Ghost, etc. Instead you have this PT about the rise/fall of Anakin that is suppose to shoehorn in with redemption of Anakin now in 4-6, and it just doesn't work, cause they literally look like TWO different sets of movies, and the OT was never the redemption of Darth Vader, that was just a plot point in ROTJ!

I think many fans wouldn't be as hard on the PT, especially OOT fans, if the OT was left untouched, and you could essentially watch that 4-6 and enjoy that for the story arc it has in it. And if you want more SW, there is this backstory that is suppose to be watched AFTER the OT, that has an arc in itself about the main players and how they got there, and you could watch that in a different light cause essentially it was made 20 years after. 1-6 just doesn't work, the story, the visuals, the tone, I have tried it a zillion times, and I have yet to watch 1,2,3,4,5,6 consecutively(within weeks) in that order, and get through it with any enjoyment. I always start with TPM, and then realize I have to sludge through these 2 movies to get to something interesting in ROTS, plus realizing I have to get to the 4th movie to get to anything great.
Post
#300955
Topic
How did you envision the prequels?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/300955/action/topic#300955
Time
The huge mistake Lucas made, and I think this is the key to why the PT failed in many fans eyes is the fact that AOTC/ROTS Anakin is in many ways a whiney jerk.

Anakin didn't have to be exactly like Luke, but it was established in Episode I that Anakin was a good kid, and for whatever you think of Jake Lloyd, he is a good wholesome kid that you do sympathize with. AOTC Anakin is a jerk the minute he is on screen as he argues with Kenobi in front of Padme after whether they should protect her or find the killer, and from that moment on I just never really liked him, let alone cared for his plight. So when you have these tragic events happen to him in ROTS, you are almost rooting against him and wanting him to fall into lava as I sided with Kenobi at the end of the movie. Anakin should have been a likeable character until he turns, then you have that contrast that would make you feel his plight, cause you could understand what he was doing.

A good example of a tragedy would be Luke or Han turning on each other at the end of ROTJ, and watch them fight as trying to figure out who to root for? You wouldn't, you feel for the one that turned to the darkside, cause you cared about that character for 3 movies. I look at the Anakin character after Episode I, and sometimes wonder what the hell Lucas was thinking.
Post
#300853
Topic
The Beginning: Making 'Episode I': A comedy masterpiece
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/300853/action/topic#300853
Time
Originally posted by: Fang Zei


Another thing I caught the fuller implication of this time around was how Titanic had not been released when Episode I started shooting, so when they're doing the pickups in Spring of '98 that's why George says "we're never going to beat Titanic" when Frank Oz asks him how well he thinks Episode I is going to do. Also, I didn't notice until this time that George was saying "More American Graffiti" and how it only made 2 cents (or something to that effect).

.



Lucas also says to Oz, "You know you can ruin these things." in reference that a sequel or a prequel can totally ruin what has been done by its previous movies, and I think that is what we have been saying for years.

I think deep down Lucas knows the PT is pretty bad compared to the OT, but the movies made so much money, he is able to justify what he has done, cause most movie series that have bad sequels usually don't make ANY money, and it is the audience that dictates when the creator should stop. In the end, most SW fans were going to see the PT movies no matter how bad they were, cause we all wanted them to be great, and we all wanted them to fit nicely into a 6 movie saga, so in that respect the money the PT made is irrelevant, compared to what people think of them after it is all said in done.
Post
#300841
Topic
The Beginning: Making 'Episode I': A comedy masterpiece
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/300841/action/topic#300841
Time
The ironic thing about that whole documentary is that Lucas had such high hopes for the PT at that point, and I really think his heart was in it originally, as he just totally miscalculated his audience with Jar Jar, Jake Lloyd, etc. I mean the man had a camera follow him around from 1994 all the way up to shooting the movie and the first rough cut, and finally the premiere, so he really thought lightning would strike twice as it did in 1977. If you notice AOTC/ROTS don't have anything near the behind the scenes footage the TPM documentary does.

The screentests with all 3 10 year old Anakins reading with Portman is cringeworthy, as NONE of them are good! Jar Jar is the key sums up the whole problem with the PT, as it was the visuals and CG that would wow the audience, not the characters and story! The first rough cut is sad to watch as McCallum and everyone there sits there stonefaced as they are thinking, "This is it?" I honestly believe they knew it was a dud there, and at that point it was too late.

I believe the backlash to TPM really changed Lucas to this day, as to his opinion on the OOT, the OOT fans, the way he kept changing the story of AOTC/ROTS as it seems like he didn't follow his original ideas that TPM set out to say. TPM is my least favorite of the PT movies, as I find it utterly childish in most parts of the movie, but I am coming around to what Lucas was doing as compared to the other 2 PT movies, as that one is atleast tries to be like the OT movies trying to be fun, using real landscapes and having that sense of adventure. And yes I think Lucas had the right idea with Jar Jar because humor was always a part of the OT movies, the problem: HE WASN'T FUNNY! So AOTC/ROTS are devoid of ANY humor and just stick out as this 'trying to be serious cheesy B-movie."
Post
#300727
Topic
Ian McDiarmid's performance in the PT (also the OT) is memorable and absolutely enthralling
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/300727/action/topic#300727
Time
Originally posted by: see you auntie


Although I must point out that my dislike of McDiarmid's performance has nothing to do with the direction that his character took in Ep3. I hardly think Ian would of had very little input into that at all. The cackling idiot of a jester I think is all McDiarmid's fault. Regardless of any direction George may have given him that's not the character he portrayed in ROTJ and he should be responsible for the performance.



This is true, and Lucas even says it in the ROTS Commentary when The Emperor is throwing Senate Pods, "I just let Ian go, and let him do his thing." I am paraphrasing of course, but when we walked out of the theater after Episode III everyone of my friends said, "Man ROTS just ruined the Emperors character from ROTJ!"

Post
#300725
Topic
Ian McDiarmid's performance in the PT (also the OT) is memorable and absolutely enthralling
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/300725/action/topic#300725
Time
Originally posted by: solo21
You're really giving P.August a B+? Did you see the death scene in AOTC!?!


Ouch! I was only thinking of TPM, so I may have to rethink her grade, maybe I was grading on a curve since the PT was so bad!

That death scene in AOTC is cringeworthy.......sometimes I wonder if Lucas was even watching these scenes in the editing room and wondering if they are as bad as they come off to the public?
Post
#300712
Topic
Ian McDiarmid's performance in the PT (also the OT) is memorable and absolutely enthralling
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/300712/action/topic#300712
Time
McDiarmid (Palpatine) A
McDiarmid (The Emperor) D
McGregor A-
Christopher Lee A-
Liam Neeson B+
Pernilia August B+
Hayden Christenson D
Natalie Portman C
Jake Lloyd D (I give him a D cause he is only 10 years old, and I can't give a kid an F)

Overall, I think the great actors stepped up in their roles, but the problem is the main characters are Lloyd/Portman/Christenson and the bulk of the drama/chemistry comes from them, and that is why the great actors in the cast couldnt save it.
Post
#300598
Topic
Does the PT work as a fun & fluff comic book production?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/300598/action/topic#300598
Time
The problem I always had from day one with the PT is the story (a tragedy) takes itself too seriously for the kind of movies Lucas does in the SW Universe.

Why the OT worked so well is that the movies are essentially guilty pleasure movies that are fun as hell to watch, yet they define the SciFi/Fantasy Genre because there is more to them if you dig alittle bit. The OT movies do have a good story to tell, do have depth to them in that there is an overall arc, do provide humor with lovable characters to keep the movies from being TOO serious, have a blend of special effects and action to keep the movies from being too slow, and also provide enough drama that makes the movies enjoyable for adults cause they have those 'it' moments or goosebump moments. That was a formula from 77-83 that worked to perfection for Lucas, and I believe that is why the OT movies were ALWAYS going to be better no matter who wrote/directed the PT.

The PT in theory is a drama, cause a tragedy needs great drama to capture the bitter end and how everything ends up. But you watch Jake Lloyd/Jar Jar Binks totally make TPM laughable, you have a cruddy romance in AOTC that has some of the most cringeworthy moments ever put on screen, and then you many attempts at real drama in ROTS totally fail, especially near the end cause Lucas chose an average actor like Hayden to carry the film. Just think of great dramas: Platoon, Rain Man, Schindlers List, etc, all of them are well acted, well directed and provide that emotional punch that really grabs the viewer, a SW film is not made to do that, so in a sense it comes off totally distant from the OT. But does anyone here want to watch Schindlers List 300 times, even though it is one of the greatest movies ever made? No, it is not a fun movie to watch, it is serious, and sometimes you need time to watch it again, that is what a powerful drama does. A SW movie is just a fun 2 hours that you can revisit anytime you like.

The OT worked cause it didn't take itself too seriously, yet it still didn't cheese it up like movies Independence Day, where that is the ultimate guilty pleasure. The PT took itself too seriously, and in the end comes off as less dramatic as the OT, and IMO, it never had a shot.
Post
#300423
Topic
Cash cow-abanga shit, another SW OT dvd repackaging for the holidays! Luca$$$
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/300423/action/topic#300423
Time
I can't give a specific time to when VHS/Beta/Laserdisk exactly came on the market, but I do remember most of my friends families bought their first VCR between 1983-1985, so The Original SW came out on the market in 1982 in all 3 formats, so it is definitely earlier then the SW DVD's or future BluRay HD-DVD's
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Release Format: VHS, Betamax

Release Date: May 1982

Studio: 20th Century Fox Video

Technical Comments: This is the first official video transfer of the film, presented in 1.33:1 pan and scan. The audio is the theatrical stereo mix presented in two-channel stereo (mono compatible). It has been brought to my attention that an alternate version of this initial release may also exist, this one featuring a mono-only audio track. Mind you, this is not the theatrical mono mix. Rather, a mono-only presentation of the stereo mix. The theatrical mono mix has never been released on video. If anyone has any more information on this alternate mono release (and a scan of the box cover), please let me know. For more info on the three audio mixes created for the theatrical release of "Star Wars," please click here.

Comments: This first home video release was meant for rental only. Despite that, it could be purchased for its retail price of approximately $120

Other Comments: Comes in a plastic case with "Video Rental Library" stickered labels on the front, back and spine

What You Didn't Know: Despite popular belief, this was not the only transfer made of Star Wars. At some point, a second fullscreen video transfer was created from a 16mm flat print source. Since an anamorphic (2.35:1) 35mm print had been reduced down to a flat (1.33:1) 16mm print, this 16mm source featured different pan & scan decisions made during the print reduction. One main difference in this transfer was that Luke's macrobinocular POV shot of the Banthas was squeezed to actually show the Tusken Raider walking to the side of the frame. This video transfer was only shown on HBO and was never offered for sale or rent [ Special Thanks to David C. Fein ]





Release Format: RCA CED

Release Date: 1982

Studio: 20th Century Fox Video & CBS/FOX

Technical Comments: 1.33:1 pan and scan transfer with Linear Stereo Audio (Mono Compatible)

Comments: One CED disc (Cat# 1130-90). Released first under the 20th Century Fox Video logo and then under the rarer CBS/FOX

Other Comments: The film is time-compressed at 118 min. to fit the 120 min. CED limit





Release Format: VHS, Betamax

Release Date: September 1982

Studio: 20th Century Fox Video

Technical Comments: 1.33:1 pan and scan transfer with Linear Stereo Audio (Mono Compatible)

Comments: Relabeled for consumer sale (although retail was still around $120) Click here for the announcement scanned from the September 1982 copy of "Video Review" magazine

Other Comments: Comes with a side-opening "drawer" slipcase





Release Format: Laserdisc

Release Date: September 1982

Studio: 20th Century Fox Video

Technical Comments: 1.33:1 pan and scan transfer (same as VHS) with CX-encoded Analog Stereo Sound

Comments: One Extended-Play CLV disc (Cat# 1130-80)

Other Comments: The film is time-compressed at 118 min. to fit the 120 min. CLV limit



Post
#300172
Topic
Cash cow-abanga shit, another SW OT dvd repackaging for the holidays! Luca$$$
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/300172/action/topic#300172
Time
What is so bothersome about the format wars, and the holding out by Lucas/Spielberg of many of their movies during the early days of DVD is that it never used to be like that with VHS & Laserdisk.

What holds these formats back from really taking off is great titles, and the reason you bought a VCR in the 80's was because the OT was one of the first movies out there. The reason you would buy a Laserdisk Player was because you could get the OT in widescreen. Now it seems like you have to wait for these formats to mature to the masses, THEN we will see the big titles.

Just think if SW, Jaws, Indiana Jones, LOTR, Back to the Future were all out right now on one universal HD format, I would be Best Buy right now and saying bye-bye to DVD, but why would I want to even venture into a new format with two competing products, and only a handful of 'A' titles?
Post
#300100
Topic
Would you give up ESB in exchange for...?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/300100/action/topic#300100
Time
The difference is SW'77 is the only original movie in the history of movies, that won't be seen first by most new fans, as now it is part 4 of 6.

That puts the movie in a totally different context, storywise, effectswise, and tonality, because the PT was made 20 years after SW'77. Say what you want about Godfather, Rocky, BTTF, etc, all those movies will be experienced by a new generation as the first in the series, so they will see it the same way we did growing up. SW'77 will be watched as the middle chapter now by newcomers, and it will just part 4 of Anakin's story, and I believe they will be jaded when they watch it and miss the whole fun-factor the movie has because the first three take themselves way too seriously.

Post
#300055
Topic
Cash cow-abanga shit, another SW OT dvd repackaging for the holidays! Luca$$$
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/300055/action/topic#300055
Time
This sounds like a way to get rid of any extra SE disks they have in stock, and if they repackage them in a new case, the completists out there will eat them up.

I see the Young Indiana Jones Chronicles is being released on DVD this fall for the Christmas Season, as I think Lucas is taking a break with any new SW release to pump up interest in Indy IV. That means Indy IV & the new Indy Boxset will come to DVD next fall, so I am starting to believe the rumored boxset may not come til 2009. Think about it, Lucas puts out one new release every year on DVD:

TPM - 2001
AOTC - 2002
Indy Boxset - 2003
OT/SE - 2004
ROTS - 2005
GOUT - 2006
Young Indy Chronicles - 2007
Indy IV - 2008

Sorry guys, but even though it is not confirmed they will ever remaster the OOT, we may have to wait till the HD/BluRay format war is ended to see something new from SW. IMO
Post
#300040
Topic
Would you give up ESB in exchange for...?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/300040/action/topic#300040
Time
Originally posted by: Blackjack


If it was just Star Wars, the deeper, spiritual meaning of the films (Family, redemption, forgiveness, love) would be non-existant and Star Wars would be just another brainless sci-fi shoot em up.


I have to respectfully disagree with you if there was just SW and no sequels. Now I agree that the OT overall does give the films a slightly different meaning after ROTJ, but to call SW a brainless sci-fi shoot em up movie? The movie from start to beginning is about Luke Skywalkers journey who gets sucked into this conflict with the rebels vs the empire.

The overall trilogy after 1983 may have been about family, redemption, etc, but the Original SW was about hope, and about how good truimphs evil, and there are moments in the movie that would still resonate today and the typical brainless summer blockbuster wouldn't hold a candle to it. Moments like Luke looking at the binary sunset, moments like when Luke sees his foster parents bones and realizes where his destiny lies. Other moments like Luke/Leia flying through the chasm in the deathstar, and finally the destruction of the deathstar is one of the most satisfying moments I have ever experienced in the theater. This isn't a knock against the OOT, cause what you said in your post is correct, but don't belittle The Original SW, cause the movie stood on its own as the most popular movie ever in 1977.

Post
#299995
Topic
Would you give up ESB in exchange for...?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/299995/action/topic#299995
Time
Originally posted by: bkev
Why the hate on ROTJ? Sure it could have been a stronger film, but it's the one I started with - so I really like it.


I don't think there is genuine hate toward ROTJ from OOT fans, but I think after seeing the PT, you can see what went wrong with ROTJ, and understand where Lucas started to change.

I don't hate ROTJ, in fact for a SW movie, I really love it, but it is far inferior to SW & ESB, so when it was just a trilogy, you kinda thought it was a hiccup by Lucas & the boys. Then you watch the PT, and see the kiddy tone, the bad attempts at humor, the stilted dialogue, and the way the movies move like molasses at certain points, and you can see all little parts of them in ROTJ. So it went from a movie that everyone thought was a hiccup, to a movie series that was trending downward in terms of quality.

Post
#299989
Topic
Would you give up ESB in exchange for...?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/299989/action/topic#299989
Time
Originally posted by: JediRandy


I could care less if you've gotten pwnd! I am interested in the reasoning as to why erasing one of the greatest flicks of all time would be worth it if it meant no more CGI Jabba the Hutt


JR, I think there are some fans here, not all, who geniunely just love SW and don't really care for the sequels, including ESB. As I have said, I know many people, older then me who were in high school when SW came in 1977, and they really don't look that highly towards ESB or even care about ROTJ & the PT, and they answer yes in a heartbeat.

I think there are two camps here who would think of voting yes, ones that truly only love SW'77 and have never gravitated to the sequels/prequels, and ones that are kinda tainted by the whole post 1983 SW stuff, and just think it has gone to hell in a handbasket.

I personaly think it is a tough question, and I am still inclined to say no, cause I do love ESB alot, and still enjoy ROTJ as part 3 of the greatest trilogy ever. But the fact that I have an HDTV and the SE are the only ones that are truly watchable, quality wise on it, still drives me crazy being a lifelong fan.

Post
#299959
Topic
Would you give up ESB in exchange for...?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/299959/action/topic#299959
Time
This thread has so much irony in it, because in one sense because of ESB's greatness, it has opened the door to most of us being OT fans from 77-83. If ESB were anywhere near the quality of ROTJ, SW would have died off and it would have been the predictable movie series: Classic Original, inferior sequels. But ESB defied the odds, and is one of the greatest sequels of all-time, so it gives the SW series that rare 1-2 punch of greatness.

But the downer to the success of ESB is that it gave Lucas total power of SW for the future, because remember he didn't own the rights to SW'77, only the sequels. So what did we get after the success of ESB? Ewoks and a pretty good ROTJ, that is only watched by most of us cause it caps of the trilogy. We then get the SE with Greedo shooting first, Hayden in ROTJ, and the OOT MIA, relegated to Laserdisk quality. We get TPM with Jar Jar & Jake Lloyd, we get the AOTC romance, and then we get the horrid ROTS with the dumbest reason for Anakin to turn after all the years. Throughout that we get EU crap, Ewoks cartoons, Droids cartoons, and now more TV shows to milk the cow. All because ESB defied the odds and changed a generation of movie fans already changed after 1977 and the first SW movie.

In saying that, if Lucas could remaster the OOT for DVD or HD in the future, all that post1983 crap I could deal with, cause I can totally forget about. But as long as I don't have a decent quality OOT to watch on my HDTV, I don't think it was all worth it.
Post
#299894
Topic
"Lucas can't find home for Star Wars spin-off"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/299894/action/topic#299894
Time
Originally posted by: Mielr


I don't think it's been totally lost- SW '77 is still the only film in the AFI's top 100 movies of all time (it even moved up a few spots in the most recent list) and SW is still the only one of the films to have been nominated for best picture, although I've always felt that ESB got cheated because it was a sequel, to me it was good enough on it's own to have been nominated for best pic. Times have changed though, I think if Empire were made today, it would have been nominated and may have even won. The academy seems to look differently upon sequels now, with one of the LOTR movies winning best pic a few years back, and I think the OOT did a lot to change those perceptions about sequels.

I do think the PT has brought down the franchise to an extent, but I think it only has limited power to damage the OOT and SW '77 in particular. The OOT is just too damn good.


Yes, but you have to look at future generations watching SW, and they just aren't going to see that movie the same way we did after the PT. It has Episode IV on it, and the newer generation is going to watch it as the middle film, and not look at as either a standalone film, or a beginning film like it was before the PT.

Many will see it as the continuing story of the PT, or Anakin's story, and won't even watch it as that fairy tale movie that all OT fans saw it as growing up. You will watch the PT, then go to the Episode IV and see a drastic change in special effects and many young fans can't help but like one or the other.

I agree the movie has stayed a classic, despite Lucas changes to the SW saga, but I know all my nephews just call it Episode IV, as they don't even care what the names of the movies are, they just call it by its #. Only time will tell.

Post
#299893
Topic
"Lucas can't find home for Star Wars spin-off"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/299893/action/topic#299893
Time
Originally posted by: C3PX


As far as Lucas not even liking directing, when was it that he said that? (I am not suggesting he never said it, I am just wondering what year it was that he said that). He sure has directed a lot of movies for a guy who doesn't like directing. And whether he enjoyed directing back then or not, it didn't seem to stop him from doing it, and I still honestly believe he would have gone on directing had he not taken the path that he had.


Lucas has always said he does not like writing, or dreads the writing process, as he has all these thoughts, but has a tough time putting them down on paper. For instance, the Luke/Leia talk in ROTJ, Lucas talks about the process of writing that scene. "It is a scene I knew I had to put in, but I never know how much exposition is too much exposition, and you have alot of fans who want to see the movie and go from point a to point b, and I will always worry about a scene like this, am I losing the viewer?"

Lucas has never said he hated directing, from what i recall, and I do recall that he loved directing TPM so much, he decided to do the next 2 after he original to have someone else direct Episode II & III. If Lucas never became a businessman and just stuck with directing/producing, who knows what type of movies he would have done?

Post
#299875
Topic
"Lucas can't find home for Star Wars spin-off"
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/299875/action/topic#299875
Time
Originally posted by: JediRandy


I'm not arguing about story, about the PT being good, etc. I'm simply saying I'm blown away that people would consider (or even be fine with) ESB "going away" if it meant no more post ANH Star Wars.

If being flabbergasted by that train of thought is out of line then this place is more militant that I thought it was. That's Basher Sanctuary level stuff... (hence MeBeFanEditor chiming in)


JR, I know we are getting WAY off topic, but we have all been posting here for a long time on this website and I consider us all regulars, so I am going to keep this thread going even though we are a bit off track.

No matter what the internet says, SW'77 is the favorite among the majority of SW fans, mainly ones that saw the original in 1977. As I have said, I love ESB, but stick me on a island by myself with one DVD player, one TV, and only one movie, I will take SW'77 ANY day of the week.

The reason you are amazed about many peoples opinions of ESB is because SW'77 fans usually don't post on the internet, you either get hardcore OOT fans like most of us here, or hardcore Saga fans, like TFN. Trust me, I can't tell you how many people I know who don't even care for ESB, and love the first SW movie. I was at a party this summer and talking to a bunch of my brothers friends, mostly around 40 years old, and they all think SW'77 is one of the greatest movies ever, and I asked them what they thought of ESB, "ESB is a good movie, but it is no SW." I then asked them about ROTJ, "ROTJ, that movie is ridiculous!" Sounds kinda like OT fans here talking about the PT?

I will always go back to the rerelease of the SE in 1997:
SW- 136 million
ESB - 67 million
ROTJ- 45 million

If ESB was so beloved by SW fans, why did it get outgrossed by SW by roughly double the amount? Because SW will always appeal to the mainstream, and I am telling you alot of fans don't like "I am your father", cause they think it totally negates the whole first film, and that fairy tale adventure in 1977 turned into this serious scifi movie in 1980. I am in the middle of that group, as I still love the OT more then any movie series ever, yet SW'77 will always be #1 to me, and when I watch it Darth Vader, Luke, and Leia are NOT related.