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TheDoctor1987 said:

I think people should let this topic rest because the Prequels are great movies and people just need to let it have its legacy in the Star Wars Saga. 

I have no problem with your opinion of the PT, but should all of us just say that Godfather III is a great movie simply because it completes The Godfather Trilogy?  Should we all agree the Rocky V is great simply because it is part of the 6 movie saga? 

Again, opinions are opinions, but just because a movie(s) is part of a set of movies already made, does not excuse them if someone like myself or others thinks they are not up to par.

rcb said:

i wasn't there in the 70's/80's, wish i was though. but i was wondering wat everybody's reaction was to darth vader revealing that he's lukes father? it was spoiled for me when i first saw ESB.

 It worked because NOBODY knew of it when you walked into the theater in 1980.  If ESB came out in 2009, the internet would have ruined the whole plot twist.  Back then there was a respect of not telling people the plot twist until they saw it, so nobody blabbed it in school the next day.

For me personally, when Vader said 'I am your father' to Luke, I was stunned, because I still saw Vader as the villain behind the mask, and I couldn't seperate that from a human being, even though Kirsh shows the back of Vader head for that split second. 

It would be cool to hear everyone's experiences after seeing ESB in 1980, I know for me as an 8 year old kid, that movie had too much for me to process at the time, and I really wish I would have been a few years older to really appreciate what I just saw. 

Gaffer Tape said:

Really?  Cause Luke's always been my favorite too.  I thought Luke had quite a lot to do as a character in ESB, so I'm curious:  how come being a Luke fan would cause you to like the other movies more?  I suppose I'm asking, what makes the outer movies "Luke" movies to you and ESB a "Han" movie?

 

That was more a general statement, so I don't think I have any scientific proof:)  As much as the whole OOT is about Luke, I really feel Han Solo steals the show in ESB, as his relationship with Leia is front and center, he is running from the Empire the whole time, and eventually gets frozen in one of the most memorable moments in the trilogy.  In SW, he is just an outlaw, in ROTJ, he is just a second cog, but ESB is HIS movie, IMO. 

The one thing I always wanted to do as a kid when I was playing with SW figures was get as many Stormtroopers as possible, and recreate the ROTJ opening scene where Vader enters DSII.  I think I only had about 3-4 Stormtroopers since I didn't have any money at the time to buy anymore!  My mom gave all my SW figures away in the mid 80's before anyone knew they would be worth anything, and it still kills me to this day that I had the Millenium Falcon, and kept it in perfect condition, and now somebody I don't even know has it!

I think what character you loved said alot about what SW movie was your favorite.  As a kid, I wanted to be Luke Skywalker, he was me, and I related to him, so essentially SW was my favorite movie, and ROTJ was a close second. 

As I got older I realized how f-n cool Han Solo was, and in that time I realized how great ESB was.  But my friends growing up who loved Han Solo more then Luke were bigger fans of ESB then I was back in 1980.

I also remember walking out of ESB in 1980 utterly shaking in pants wondering what just happened to my beloved characters from Star Wars?  As a kid, this movie did not sit well with me, and the irony is how I did a 180 years later and realized how great it was. 

I was 8 when I saw ESB, as I remember turning my head when Han cut open the taun-taun guts!   I will always remember when Yoda first came on screen and acted like a wack-job, and the audience actually laughing thinking this was some sort of muppet joke, and at that point the movie could have lost credibility, until Yoda turns out to sucker not only Luke but the audience! 

And of course the whole cave scene went right over my head at the time, as kids like myself really thought Darth Vader was there on Dagobah!  After that sequence was done, I turned to my brother and said, "What just happened????"

I remember during the ROTJ days in the summer of '83 of being obsessed with Jabba the Hutt, and there was a great documentary about the making of that whole first part of the movie on PBS.  They showed how 3 people would control Jabba, and as a kid he was the coolest bad guy.  And of course Slave Leia opened the door to manhood to many of us:)

I think one of the coolest memories I had was finding out in the summer of '82 over a friends house that the 3rd SW movie was called, "Revenge of the Jedi"  At the time, I thought it was the coolest title and we all thought that Vader was lying and Luke was going to get revenge on Lord Vader by killing him.  Because of no internet we had no idea what to expect from the 3rd movie, as spoilers back then were not even a thought!

I know there was a thread about your SW/OOT experience in theaters, and other threads talking about the first time you saw the movies, but I thought I would start a thread for us old guys/gals who were there when the movies were coming out and just post any memories that you had during those days.

The reason why so many look fondly back at SW in the 90's is essentially you had one group of SW fans:  SW fans!  Sure we all realized later on that ROTJ was the weak link of the saga, but it was still the best trilogy of any movie series.

Now you have OOT fans, SE fans, Saga Fans, PT fans, EU fans, there is just so much out there now, the saturation has caused a rift among the SW fans that will never go back to what it was pre-SE(1997).

I also think VHS and eventually DVD killed all of these movies, as there was nothing better as a kid to turn on HBO and SW, Empire, or Jedi was on.  You had no control back then when you watched it, and EVERYTIME it was on you stopped what you were doing and it was a magical 2 hour ride!  I remember we would joke as friends, "As soon as you see that 20th Century Fox Logo come on and hear those drums, you knew a SW movie was coming on!"

I think people way overanalyze the age group philosophy, I just think that most sequels/prequels don't age well over time.

I can tell you as a kid I loved Rocky III & Rocky IV ALOT more then Rocky I.  I loved Superman II ALOT more then Superman:The Movie.  I loved Return of the Jedi alot more then Star Wars and Empire.

Simply because they were fresh and I had seen the originals so many times, but as time wore on and the views of those movies even out, you realize that the original are usually better.

The Prequels are the same way, I enjoyed each movie in the theater, and on my initial view on DVD, but as time wore on, they weren't as great as the OT, and my views of them lessened.

I still don't buy that the PT will all of the sudden be loved once the old folks like us stop complaining about them.  Case in point, Godfather III sucked in 1990, sucked in 2000, and still sucks in 2009, nothing can change that.

I was permabanned from TFN back in 2006, but that suprises me about the bashing now, cause they essentially drove out 90% of the bashers back then.

The big turning point at TFN was after Lucas announced the GOUT back in May 2006, as the gushers were stunned that Lucas had renaged because he always said that the OOT didnt' exist anymore.

Then once the GOUT was said to be non-anamorphic, all hell broke loose on the boards.  People like myself were pissed because we knew it was a spit in the face to this fanbase, then the gushers started chiming in gloating!  To this day I never understood why a SW fan would gloat that Lucas would spit on the original versions, the ones that made SW what is was today!

They started saying, "You are getting what you deserve!" and there were heated battles all over the boards.  Finally they closed the bashers sanctuary later that month, which came out of nowhere, and then they pretty much banned any basher of the PT and we all fled to OT.com or ORS.com. 

I havent' posted there in 3 years, but I do remember the last days I was there it was a bunch of teenagers defending the PT, and I figured that place wasn't for me.  I still have the Private Message from a mod Darth Sapient, "No one gives a shit about the OOT, get over it and move on cause you'll never post here again."  I was then permabanned. 

AxiaEuxine, are you still trying to convince people that they dislike the PT for this and that reasons?  With all due respect, this psychoanalysis of the supposed 'PT bashers' is the reason I rarely post here anymore.

I don't hate the PT, I just don't think they are good movies, plain and simple.  I don't hate Lucas for making the movies, I am person that believes that all movies series that get milked usually end up turning out bad in the end.

Here are the sequels that I think are bad:  Superman III & IV, Terminator 3, Alien Ressurection, Jaws 3-D & Jaws the Revenge, Lethal Weapon 4, Jurassic Park II & III, Batman Forever & Batman & Robin, need I go on?

Do you notice that most of these movies are either the 3rd or 4th in the movie series?  The series is exhausted by then, and the originality is gone and the series usually makes a left turn to some sophmoric humor for some reason.  Lethal Weapon was this gritty crime movie that had touches of humor, by the 4th movie it was almost laughable when they brought in Chris Rock to bring in even more lame humor!

Star Wars, the original version is a pretty gritty sci fi movie, with a good mix of humor.  Empire is a very adult/serious sci fi movie, and Jedi is where you see that touches of Lucas catering to kiddies.  By the time the PT were made, the grittiness is gone, and the movies are a total 180 from Star Wars & Empire, and you wonder if this is the same creator?

I don't care whether the new generation likes or hates the PT, or whether you like or hate the PT, to each his own I say.  But its been 10 years now, and many here have given the PT ample views and if we dont' like em by now, we never will.

negative1 said:

i'm sorry, but the original trilogy is not enough for me, i care

way too much about star wars, and i want MORE, more of the prequels,

more of the 'clone war's', more of everything related to star wars..

it gives me something to look forward too, instead of being stuck in

the past..

 

later

-1

Dude, people like you are the reason I stop posting here on this site, because you can't understand that there are just fans of the OOT and thats it.

I respect that there are fans that like the PT, SE, and EU stuff, and that is cool with me, but the name of the site is originaltrilogy.com, not StarWars.com, nor TheForce.net, the kind of explains the fanbase and the purpose.  Now I do think it is cool that the site expanded so there are sections that deal with new fanedits, and there will always be topics to discuss things about anything in the SW universe.  But understand, the reason this place was created was because we the fans, wanted the OOT on DVD, and we got it, it just came out in shitty quality.   So now the future must be to get the OOT on BluRay fully remastered.  Will it ever happen?  I don't know, but we will always be a voice in Lucas's ear.

Later

Hey guys, don't log in much anymore, cause I really don't care about anything new in the SW world except a BluRay release of the OOT.

I don't think we f-d up at all, and you can look at the Superman II:Donnor Cut DVD and Bladerunner DVD to see how a grass roots internet following worked into getting great releases.  Both of those DVD's are anamorphic and are of great quality, with Bladerunner showcasing 5 versions of the movie for ALL fans.

I always defended Lucas on the PT, as I said to my friends, if you love em watch em, if you hate em walk away, but I could never defend Lucas on the 2006 OOT DVD, as that was just him being a dick to this fanbase.  Lucas thinks this part of the fanbase is a bunch of assholes who sabotaged his PT movies instead of realizing that this happens to all great directors when they put out mediocre movies that stack up to the originals.  Hey George, ask Coppola about Godfather III?  Ask Stallone about Rocky V?  Ask XMen fans about XMen 3? 

Whether Lucas puts out the OOT on BluRay, who really knows, but he knows the fans want it, the reps at Lucasfilm know the fans want it, or they wouldn't have bothered to put them on DVD in the first place.  Lucas can now count on the PT fanbase that made his Clone Wars movie such a hit only grossing 25 million and falling out of theaters within a month.  I know I'll wait for the OOT George, but I honestly don't care about the other stuff.

This is the one time that I am going to defend Lucas on his older quotes about the saga now.  In one of the documentaries in the recent DVD releases Lucas says, "It was always about these twins, and their father." 

Now in that way, I do believe him, cause I think he did have a general idea about that, but he never specifically says Luke/Leia are siblings the same way he lies about Darth Vader being Lukes dad or the saga was always about Anakin.

I think in ESB, the other was Lukes sister, just not Leia at the time, hence why Luke & Leia smooch at the beginning of the movie.  I think if Lucas decided to make more movies with Luke, Leia and Han rather then a trilogy, in the next movie they would explore Luke meeting his long lost sister and he would train her in that movie to become a jedi.  But I think Lucas wanted to end the series with ROTJ, they needed to tie up the 'other' plot point, and Leia was his only way of doing that.

sunday256 said:

I have no problems with Midichlorians. So no, not everyone here has a problem with them.

 

 Damn, there goes my 'Everybody Hates Jar Jar' Thread:)

Midiclorians never bothered me, probably cause there were other plot points that drove me more crazy:)  But Midiclorians are a symbol for the PT:  Lucas didn't trust the audience, so he dumbed it down.  There are so many things in the PT that just cries for, "OK I am going to tell you exactly what is going on because you may not figure this out in the movie!"  When Anakin fights Dooku in ROTS he says, "My powers have doubled since we last me Dooku!"  compared to ROTJ when Vader sees that Luke has built his own lightsaber, "Indeed you are powerful as the Emperor senses!"  What is the difference?  The PT put a number on Anakins power just so the audience knows he is DOUBLE the strength he was in AOTC, compared to the OT where the audience could figure in the first 20 minutes when Lukes kicks everyones ass on the sailbarge that he is a powerful jedi.  I could go on and on about the Cave Scene and how that doesn't explain anything and lets the viewer rationalize what just happens as Yoda says, "Remember your failure at the cave."  In the PT, Yoda would have said WHY Luke failed but Lucas/Kershner/Kasdan trusted the audience in 1980.  Midiclorians are just more of the same, putting a number on a plot point just so the audience gets that Anakin is one of the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy. 

I have always said that the internet is a minority of SW fans, as you just hear the extremes.  All of my friends that are SW fans do not post on SW message boards, but all feel the same way about the SW movies:

-Love SW & ESB

-Have an affection for ROTJ, even though it is inferior to the first two movies

-Think the PT is OK, has its great moments offset by its bad moments, but don't hate George Lucas for them, they have just kinda forget them at this point and moved on

-Prefer the OOT over the SE

-Have read some older EU stuff from the Thrawn Trilogy days, but nothing new lately,

-No desire to see the Clone War movie.

-No desire to see the TV show

Now as I said, these fans don't post on SW boards, don't hate Lucas, they are all just SW fans who grew up with the OT in the 80's and still consider it their favorite trilogy of alltime.  They gave the PT a chance in the theaters, a chance on DVD, and even a chance on Spike, but it is just forgettable, but again no ill will towards George.  The people who gush about the PT at TFN and the ones who hate Lucas for the PT are definitely the minorities, and that is why the internet will never give a true representation of SW fandom.

Johnboy3434 said:

I don't know about you guys, but I have yet to see the level of extreme behavior on TF.N that you describe. Hell, other than Go-Mer-Tonic (may he burn in the torturous afterlife cesspool of your choice), I remember not one person coming to GL's defense in zombie's Secret History thread over there. Can you point me to the topics where everyone seemed to be so belligerent? I spend most of my time there on the EU boards, and the discussion there is usual amicable (if a tad nerdy, but that's the pot calling the kettle black).

 Well I haven't posted since 2006, but you have to go back to the old PT threads, as the usual suspects would come out every time.  People like Shelley would PM me all the time and tell me to leave the site and wondered why I posted there. 

The most ridiculous modding was the Mace vs Sidious thread, as that led to the inception of ORS.com, as about 20 people (gushers/bashers) were all banned because of that thread.

It goes like this:  Before ROTS DVD, mods like RebelScum77 said that Sidious threw the fight against Mace Windu, and would not accept anyone with a dissenting opinion, as they believed that Sidious could not lose to Mace.

So the ROTS DVD comes out in November, and Lucas says that Mace was beating Sidious up to the point where Anakin comes in.  So all the posters who said that BEFORE the DVD were not allowed to argue that point even though Lucas said it!  RebelScum77 started banning people and warning people not to argue that Mace really won, and Sidious still won the fight!  So about 20 guys from TFN like Yoshifett were banned or warned continously by RebelScum77 and started ORS.com and we still chuckle about it today on that site as RebelScum77 STILL won't take any diverging viewpoints in that thread as she threatened to close it after they left.

If you can find Mace vs Sidious thread in the PT forum, it is hilareous how fucking serious these mods got and how they would yield their power over a bunch of people who just wanted to debate the movies. Overall, TFN is just a boring place now as most of the good posters, bashers and gushers, have left or been banned, and now you have just a bunch of teenagers talking about the movies and how ROTS is as great Lawrence of Arabia. (I kid you not, I did read that from a post once!)

MJPollard said:

 Gee, this sounds familiar, only substitute "are not a fan of the SEs or PT at TFN" with "are a fan of the SEs or PT at OT.com".  Glass houses, fellas.

MJ Pollard, can you name one person who was banned here for expressing his/her opinions?  Just because people argue on this site, or any site, doesn't mean you or I don't have a right to say whatever the heck we want.

The problem with TFN, is they actually would ban people FOR their views!  I got banned there 2 years ago for arguing with the fans that the OOT DVD was utter shit, and everyone kept coming back to me and said, "You are getting what you deserve!"  And in all their posts they were disrespecting the OOT versions, the fans, etc, and when I came back at them along with Zombie, and Harlock we were all banned that day because the argument got heated, yet none of the anti-OOT people were banned!  I was permabanned by Darth Sapient, who now was banned from TFN for stalking women via PM's.  Now thats karma!

Sure people here will get on people who like the PT, SE, and EU stuff, but it is all in fun debate, and the last time I checked nobody was every banned here for taking a point of view.  That is the difference between OT.com & TFN.

rcb said:

the reason he hadn't labeled ANH episode IV was 'cause he didn't think it would do all that well in theaters and since it did, he retitled it a new hope. Fox was on his crack about finishing or even having the idea of a star wars movie. so george hid TESB and ROTJ.

Originally it was one big movie, but the script was a little long and had too many gaps in it. again, i like having a firm grip on the timeframe of when events occured.

 Dude, you guys really have to stop listening to Lucas cause that is a load of shit, plain & simple.

The first draft of ESB is title ,'Chapter II, The Empire Strikes Back, November 28-Dec 2, 1977 by George Lucas and Leigh Brackett

Not until the 5th Draft is it titled Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back by Lawrence Kasdan & Leigh Brackett.

If Lucas wanted Episode IV on Star Wars in 1977, the FIRST draft of ESB would read Episode V, not chapter II.  You guys have to stop watching the new documentaries cause Lucas is lying his ass off, to make it seem like he had this all planned from the start.

He wrote a script for Star Wars in the early/mid 70's, and had alot of excess plot points that he couldn't fit in a 2 hour movie, and he had some backstory notes on Darth Vader fighting Obiwan too.  He didn't have a prequel trilogy in mind, and didn't have a sequel trilogy in mind, let alone a trilogy in mind either.  He was making a serial type movie that had a true ending, but just in case it was a hit, he would make a sequel to that, hence Chapter II as the first draft to Empire, but had NO idea where the story would go.

Lucas totally changed the whole trilogy/saga after 1977, Luke & Darth Vader were related now, and you could have this prequel trilogy of how Darth Vader came to be evil, but none of that was there in the Original, and it is sad that Lucas has duped a whole generation of new SW fans.  Hey, that is why us old timers who saw the OOT in theaters are here to set things straight!

The Clone Wars movie falls to #7 this weekend, as it takes in only 1.5 million on Friday night.  The movie will now have made only about 24 million after 2 weeks, and I don't think will even make 40 million domestic gross.  But as George Lucas said a couple of weeks ago, "I would be satisfied if the movie makes 100 million domestically."

Hooray to SW fans, we finally didn't get duped by Lucas and a majority of fans stayed away from this turkey.  Lets' see if Lucas keeps catering to little kids and PT fans:)

Well, as posted above, Digitalbits has confirmed that it is just repackaging.   Being a lifelong SW fan, this will be the second time I don't give my money to Lucas again, as I refused to see The Clone War Movie, so hopefully more fans like me speak with their wallets rather then just continuing to fun his gravy train.  

The next time Lucas gets my money will be a fully restored OOT.  You move George:)

Johnboy3434 said:

*long, heavy sigh*

When are people going to learn that petitions are useless? They're going to release whatever they're going to release, and our protests don't mean jack shit because for every person who refuses to buy it, there are ten others that jump at the opportunity. Nowadays the producers dictate to the consumers what they will get, instead of the consumers telling the producers what they want.

Sigh.....Have you seen The Superman II 'Donnor Cut' on DVD lately?  Even Richard Donnor thanks the fans who petitioned and emailed Warner Brothers for years to get them to finally put this version out, and finally it came to light in 2006.   People bitched and bitched and complained, and now it sits there on my DVD shelf, with all the scenes of Brando that were in a vault for 25 years.