CO

Baronlando said:

I'm sure it will be big either way, but the only thing that gives me any hope is this is getting into new territory, isn't it? It'll be the most expensive mainstream piece of merchandise LFL has ever sold, maybe 120 bucks a pop or more. It really doesn't take a lot of holdouts around the world before they start leaving millions of dollars at the table. It's getting into the neighborhood where Lucas actually pays attention, it's the neighborhood that got Jar Jar Binks got demoted from main character status.

 There are definitely fans that will hold out, but I still think that is a huge minority of the fanbase.  Now as I said, that doesn't mean if you buy this set, you endorse the SE, as I believe if Lucas put out a BluRay OOT set and  BluRay SE set with the SAME transfer, the OOT would win hands down.

I can only speak for my friends and family, none of them are passionate enough to boycott the set if the OOT is not included, but they ALL say they prefer the "Han Shoot first' versions. 

Lucas has a monopoly on us with the movies, so unfortunately if many fans feel the OOT will never be released, or if it is released it will be another crappy version, they love the movies too much and will settle for the SE.

Baronlando said:

A six movie set released by Fox, it's gonna be expensive. I wonder how many people would consider the lack of OOT a dealbreaker. I wonder if LFL is doing that market research right now.

 Baronlando, as much as I am huge fan of the OOT, I still think if Lucas put out a BluRay Set of the PT & SE only, I think it would sell well.  The way I always looked at the SW OT fanbase, is most fans PREFER the OOT over the SE if they had a choice, but in the same vein, if the SE were the only available version, they would still buy the set.   I know most of my friends (all around 37 years old like me) are that way, they don't like any of Lucas's changes, but they still bought the 2004 DVD's simply because they love the OT movies so much and that truimphs not owning them.  (Cut their nose to spite their face analogy).  I think Lucas knows this, and that is why I honestly don't think the OOT will appear in the first BluRay set. 

I emailed Bill Hunt at www.thedigitalbits.com to keep the pressure on Lucasfilm about the OOT on BluRay.  I know one person can't make a difference, but if people like him keep screaming to guys like Steve Sansweet about the OOT, you never know what can happen.

There is only so much bitchin and moaning we can do here, where we have to get somebody to relay our message.

TV's Frink said:

Bad news is still news.

;-)

 Actually, I have to take back my statement, it could be worse news meaning more changes to the OT by Lucas. 

-Digital Yoda in ESB and ROTJ

-Hayden Christenson talking to Luke on DSII after Luke removes his mask

-Obiwan has changed dialogue in ANH, "Your father never wanted you to have this lightsaber, as I just picked it up after I chopped off his legs on Mustafar!"

-Luke and Leia new dialogue in ROTJ, "Leia, do you remember your mom, your real mom?"  Leia, "Dude, where you been, she died in childbirth, you were right next to me!"

Ol Georgie can really stir things up with more stupid changes......

Until they announce the OOT will be remastered and in the BluRay set, this isn't news to me.

TheBoost said:

The continual outpouring of Love for these films proves that the PT didn't hurt them, anymore than 1000 bad pastiches have hurt Sherlock Holmes, or that terrible Timothy Dalton movie hurt Gone with the Wind.

The OT is timeless art, beloved by millions.

 I agree, and I feel the PT actually makes you appreciate the OT even more, cause you take for granted how great those films are.  Sequels never hurt a great original movie (or in Star Wars case, Empire Strikes Back too), the only thing bad sequels and prequels do to a movie series is it makes you spend more money for a boxset cause you can't usually buy them individually. :)

I always had this misconception after watching Return of the Jedi in 1983 that Luke and Leia's mom died while Leia was very young, and then once I saw Episode III, she died at childbirth. 

:)

See I don't have a problem if they are honest about the target audience.  If they want to cater to the kiddies, then cater to kiddies only, and don't try to mass appeal it like the Prequels.  The Prequels have Jar Jar Binks who appeals to 5 year olds and Anakin burning up on a Volcano planet for teenagers and adults, as Lucas can't have it both ways.

Growing up we called the movies:  Star Wars, Empire, and Jedi. 

I'd be interested to see what direction Lucas goes with the BluRay release of the SW movies in the next few years.

The reason I say this is if you watch the Jon Stewart interview with Lucas last month, Lucas made a point of saying there are 2 SW fanbases, the OT fans and the PT fans, so he is aware that many fans prefer one trilogy over the other.

I always though the way Lucas talked during the Episode III release is that it was one story, no trilogies, just 6 movies only.  But to see them re-release the OT on DVD last year in new boxart, yet they STILL sold them as 2 trilogies!  They could have easily re-packaged the movies in one Saga Boxset, but chose to sell them still as two trilogies. 

If you are going to watch the PT(which I am not a huge fan of), I'd recommend this order, and you keep all the suprises intact:

Star Wars

Empire Strikes Back

Return of the Jedi (stop right after Obiwan talks to Luke on Dagobah)

The Phantom Menace

Attack of the Clones

Revenge of the Sith

Return of the Jedi (continue on as Luke meets up with the Rebel Fleet)

My reasoning is that you watch SW & ESB and it still keeps the freshness of the original movie without the tainting of the 'saga', ESB is preserved because of Vaders revelation.  The first part of Jedi is all about saving Han, so it keeps the story intact.  Once Luke talks with Obiwan about Anakin, it is then like a huge flashback (TPM, AOTC, ROTS), and then resumes with the final part of Jedi with Luke, Vader, and the Emperor in the throne room, and the rebels trying to save the galaxy.

My fault, sorry I missed the other thread.  You can lock it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ_v1jh99t0

Vaderisnothayden said:

I don't think it's at all counterproductive to criticise the PT. There's a whole massive horde of fans out there who think the PT is the greatest thing and there's critics and other writers who praise/defend the PT films, particularly ROTS. And there's a whole Lucasfilm industry pushing the PT as the real Star Wars story while the OOT is crapped on. As long as all that's going on, criticism of the PT needs to be heard as a counterweight.

 See, I think you are buying into the internet too much, especially the wacko's at TFN.  The internet is such a small % of SW fans, and I would never think that this and that of the movies is determined by people who post regularly.

Plus, I think many PT fans are just spinning the trilogy and I think they know that the movies aren't as good as the OT.  Now of course there are always fanboys who like anything that comes out, that happens with anything in society, but what happened over at TFN is people bashed TPM so hard, and then bashed AOTC just as much, that they felt they had to defend these movies and just lie and say they are the greatest thing in the world.

xhonzi said:

 

After the movie, my wife and I were discussing our relative dissatisfactions with the movie and specifically the "turn."  She asked me how it could have been better.  My mind instantly went back to the Emperor's Throne Room.  It gave me an all new appreciation for how good that scene really was.  When Luke uses the Dark Side while putting the smack down on Vader... that feels very real, believable and... smooth.  It comes from the characters.  Luke using the Dark Side something that comes from the character, something that's been under the surface the entire movie.  Anakin's turn is something dictated by the script.

 This is exactly how I feel towards ROTJ, and probably why I sat there in utter belief when Anakin finally turned in ROTS, "OK, that was it?????"

Lucas sold the audience on the dark side back in 1983, you felt it building and building as The Emperor goated Luke for the last 20 minutes of the movie.  Once Luke goes apeshit on Vader, you got a taste of what the dark side can do to a person. 

Once Anakin turns in ROTS, it throws away everything that Lucas accomplished in 1983.  I know Zombie talked about this before about how Lucas re-shot the turn scene and everything that led up to that point because the first shot didn't work, and it felt uninspired.  Hey George, did you watch the re-shoots???  The same thing happened!

This was my point about the difference between the PT and ROTJ.  ROTJ has its flaws, and it is has that kiddy tone, but the last 45 minutes is absolutely fabulous.  Does it make a classic movie?  No, but good enough.

Sorry, I haven't put in an avatar after all these years, just call me lazy -:)

Vaderisnothayden said:

It was always a children's story.

VINH, I have to respectfully disagree.  SW77' and ESB were not MADE for children, they were essentially made for an older teenager audience that kids and adults can enjoy.

Lucas had NO idea that children like myself would latch onto it in 1977, or else he wouldn't have marketed to at Comic Con back in 1976.  The demographic for that audience was teenage/early 20's comic/scifi geeks who were a niche audience.  Lucas even said if the movie made 50 million he would have been happy.

What happen to SW was an utter phenomenon, and I have always stood by the success of the movie to the masses was the worse thing to happen to the series, because essentially Lucas tried to please everyone.

SW & ESB are true hard hitting scifi movies that are edgy, yet have a touch of humor, but really not TARGETED to kids.  You don't have burning skeletons in a kids movie!  You don't have Luke get his hand chopped off in a kids movie!  Trust me, I watched alot of kids movies in the late 70's/early 80's, they were more in line with 'The Muppet Movie' and 'The Apple Dumpling Gang'.

You can see in the PT, and in some instances in ROTJ, that Lucas tried to please EVERYONE.   You have Anakin burning up in ROTS on Mustafar which is clearly not for kids, yet you have a cheesy villain like General Grevious who is clearly made for kids.  You have a cool villain like Darth Maul and then you have a character like Jar Jar Binks.  The PT is all over the place. 

Anchorhead said:

As much as you may not care to hear it or accept it, there are some people who genuinely disliked Return when they saw it in the theater, myself among them.  We felt every bit as let down by it as you do by the prequels.

Our thoughts aren't cliche, they aren't invented, nor is our view a myth. For a great many people, the story & style of Return fits better with the prequels than they do with the first two films. That's been clearly demonstrated here and backed up with examples - not tired cliches.

 The one thing I noticed is what a person age when ROTJ came out really determines how much you love or hate the film.

I was 10 years old when it came, the perfect age for that movie at the time, too young to realize the Ewoks were too kiddy, too young to realize that there is major  difference in tone as compared to SW & ESB.  Just young enough to enjoy the whole movie, and at the time, I liked it better then Empire.  Of course that has changed in the past 20 years.

Anchorhead, I believe you are older then many of us here, so I can see a 16 or 19 year old walking into ROTJ thinking, "What the hell happened to the SW universe?"

I still contend that ROTJ is better then the PT simply because Lucas/Marquand got the Throne Room Sequence right, as that still is some great stuff that rivals the first two movies.  In the PT, he fucked up EVERY important scene (Anakins turn, building of Darth Vader, Padme losing the will to live, etc.) 

ROTJ still holds a special place in my heart because I do remember being totally amped that summer of 83 to see it, finally seeing it, actually remember where i was sitting, about 15 rows up and more to the left aisle-:), and walking out being on cloud 9.  Of course the movie is #3 compared to SW & ESB now, as I do see its flaws, but I will contend the Original Version works for me as the completion of my favorite trilogy.

I still contend the whole idea of the Prequels was a letdown waiting to happen for many reasons:

1.  No Luke, Leia, and Han.  Sorry guys but characters drive movies, characters connect with the audience, there was no way any of us were going to love these movies because they were missing the big 3 from the OT.

2.  The more movies in a series, the more they suck.  The Rocky series started getting ridiculous by Rocky IV, Superman series by Superman III, some will even say the Matrix by the second movie.  How about Lethal Weapon IV, what a piece of crap, same director Richard Donner.  Oh, and that Godfather III debacle.

3.  The Prequels restrict storytelling.  The one thing great about the OT when watching it for the first time is you never know where it is going to take you.  Lucas could take the story wherever he wanted (eventually making Vader Lukes father).  With the prequels, everytime he tried to go somewhere new, he had to keep with the basic outline of how everyone ends up in Episode IV.  And even then he contradicted himself!

4.  Lucas is past his prime.  When was the last time Coppola made a great movie?  Or William Friedken?  Or Brian Depalma?  Does anyone remember Eyes Wide Shut as Stanley Kubricks last movie?  These were all great directors in the 70's, and they all had their run in the 70's, and in the 80's, but I can't think of a great movie any of them made by the late 90's.

5.  Everything eventually loses that magic.  Even great TV shows lose that 'it', as many movie series do somewhere along the line.  Return of the Jedi is a good movie that ends the Trilogy well, IMO, but it does lack that spark of Star Wars and Empire, and it is just so hard to recapture movie magic, that is why classics, are just that, they are come around every so often.

Gaffer Tape said:

Wow.  Do you know when this interview was conducted?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrOPCrpoPdE

Hopefully this works.

Vaderisnothayden said:

Violence against people of any gender is a serious business. It doesn't become suddenly worse or better based on the gender of the victim. People of both genders are human beings and have the same right not to be subjected to violence. The idea that violence against women is worse than violence against men is rooted in old-fashioned sexist attitudes toward women. Basically this traditional view of women as these helpless little people who can't stand up for themselves and can't do things for themselves and need to be protected by men and treated like pieces of delicate china. It's tied to a whole load of other stupid attitudes about women. It's very disempowering for women when attitudes like that are around the place.

I think you misunderstood what I meant,  I don't look at any particular violence more disturbing then another.  Some men think that hitting a women isn't a bad thing, ala Sean Connery's interview many years ago with Barbara Walters where he pretty much said you need to smack a women around sometimes if they get out of line.  Because he was Sean Connery, he got away with it at the time, but my point is that some guys go by this rationale, and I was brought up the exact opposite way.

I hope he doesn't get off with a slap on the wrist, because violence against women is pretty disturbing to me personally.

But in Lucas's movies, the audience should feel for that person and should be redeemed in the end -:)

Hayden Christensen's Bro Arrested for Assault

Posted Sep 2nd 2009 8:56AM by TMZ Staff

TMZ has learned Hayden Christensen's brother, producer Tove Christensen, was arrested early this morning for felony assault with a deadly weapon -- when he allegedly dragged his girlfriend around 30 feet after she clung to the side of his car.

LAPD responded to a 911 call in Hollywood around 2:30 AM after an argument broke out between the couple. Witnesses told law enforcement that Christensen pushed her to the ground and hopped in his car -- but when his GF reached inside to grab her purse, Tove hit the gas and dragged her down the street.

When police arrived, the girlfriend had visible marks on her arm. They later tracked down Tove at his L.A. home and arrested him.

He's currently being held on $30,000 bail.

Tove -- produced brother Hayden's movie "Shattered Glass," and according to his Wiki, had one line in one episode of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer."

ESB Special Edition 4.0 BluRay Release:

(Han is about to frozen in carbonite)

Vader:  Wait, stop the freezing process!

Lando:  What is wrong Lord Vader?

Vader:  Is that 3PO over there?

C3PO:  Its the maker!

Vader:  What happened to his frickin legs!

Boba Fett:  Are you gonna freeze Han Solo or what?

Vader:  Shut up Jango Jr., you got too much screentime in the prequels to begin with!

Leia:  Listen dad, please don't freeze my boyfriend!

Vader:  The more I think about it, I may let him go because if Han is dead, you may start hitting on......your brother!

Leia:  Luke?

Chewy:   RAAAAAAA!  (Starts dryheaving!)

C3PO:  Oh dear, R2, you knew all of this crap and didn't tell a soul!

R2D2:  I should use my jets to get the hell out of here like I did in Episode II, but for some reason they havent worked since Episode IV!

Lando:  Why the hell did these people come to Cloud City, this is like a Soap Opera!

Episode IV Scene where Owen is buying the droids from the Jawas:

Owen:  Do you speak botchee?

C3PO:  Of course I do, I am fluent....

Owen:  Wait, I know who you are, you are that annoying droid who talks like an English Butler that I owned about 15 years ago.

R2D2:  BEEP***BEEP***

Owen:  And your his little friend, R2.....D....2!

(Owen turns to the camera)

Owen:  Come on George, did you actually think the audience was going to believe I wouldn't have recognized these 2 droids!!!!

Luke:  Leia, do you remember your mother....your real mother?

Leia:  No.

Luke:  Neither do I.

Expect this in the ROTJ SE BluRay release:)